Why are Legacies such a big deal and controversial in Comics, while other forms of media like Games do it all the time and very few people talk about it. Link is a completely different person in each Zelda game (with few exceptions) and no one cares at all, despite each one being different in everything from age, personality, temperament, hair colour and even costume. Not to mention that there's been 3 different Donkey Kongs and 4 agents have used the code name Snake (Solid, Naked, Venom, Raiden). Yet when Captain America or Iron man gets taken over by a new person, everyone freaks out as if the story is ruined. I like the idea of Legacies and older heroes passing on their mantle to a new generation, but that idea rarely seems to be explored in comics because everyone gets too attached to the original wearer, and its only obscure characters who seem to be able to pass on and make stronger legacies. Why are so many people angry when someone new comes along and takes up an older heroes name and costume?
Why are Legacies such a big deal and controversial in Comics...
It all comes down with Big 2 comics not really having a middle and an end.
Its just status quo to status quo, forever.
enjoying comics requires a very special brand of autism
>personality
What personality. Link is a self-insert for the player, a literal link between game and user.
mostly this
Each Link, despite being different, have their own stories and endings. You complete the game, you finish the narrative of that Link. Spider-Man still exists. Batman still exists. They sometimes get replacements but everyone wants the original because they're still around.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Were you around when Windwaker came out? It was literally NOT MUH ZELDA AND LINK over and over and over again.
Only years later was it finally accepted. Skyward Sword had similar issues with "fans".
People are all over BotW because it's finally what people have wanted since OoT.
If it ain't white(and male) it ain't right.
Those characters were likeable
These characters are sjw pandering shit, written by sjws that can't write for shit, not a single good interesting story. Everything about these people is political, and those politics are all sjw shit. AT LEAST FROM CURRENT MARVEL
Usually, I think it has to do with the previous mantle holder being a tragic victim of bad writing. See Blue Beetle and Bat Girl for two very different examples of how this can play out.
The short answer is that there is often more direct continuity in comics than in video games.
Also you're fucking delusional if you are trying to claim fans didn't pitch a fit over Raiden.
Because games generally don't have characters hold a title for decades at a time before suddenly switching to some new asshole. And even then there are exceptions. Nobody liked Ninja Theory's Dante, and Samus in Other M is an entirely different person that everyone hates.
Furthermore, in most of your examples of successful mantle handoffs, the original character isn't brutally murdered so the successor can exist and shit all over their legacy.
Miles is fagging up Ultimate Peter's good name.
>happens all the time in Games
Like when? Other than Link who only gets away with it because he has so little character that they were able to say "they were different people who looked almost identical" after the fact when they felt like taking the lore in a different direction. Hell, people were pissed when Dante got a hair cut
There are a couple other cases similar to link where different characters with the same name get used in different games in the franchise (like the Ryu's in Breath of Fire), but they share the quality of having no character whatsoever.
Hylia was a mistake as was SS's contributions to the 'lore' of the series such as it is.
I mean, really, The Golden Godesses create everything, make the triforce, hand it over to their fat friend who did nothing, and then fly off into space?
Zelda's only worth shit because said fat goddess wanted to fuck Link really bad?
Fuck all that noise.
Because story is one of the least important aspects of video games. I think it was Carmack who said that the stories in video games are like the stories in porn, nobody cares about them, but they still need to be there. Comics are different, like literature we read comics for the stories and little else. We care about the stories, we care about the characters. We like Clark Kent as Superman and Bruce Wayne as Batman because we like them as people, the experiences they've had is what made them decide to do what they do, and we care about what challenges they face in trying to make the world a better place. Nobody cares about Link or Doomguy, or Mario, or Said, they are just cardboard cutout vehicles for the player to insert themselves into.
Experience is what is most important in video games, your experience as you play and how it makes you feel. That's why Doom is the greatest video game in the history of the medium, it was the first game that made players really feel like they were exploring a virtual world that could make them feel emotions like fear and creepiness and horror and bloodlust, it was a watershed moment for video games. That's important, the experience of the player, not the character.
Link is a blank state
MGS2 would be a better example of it in games and even then people were fucking pissed.
Video games require legacies in order to keep the gameplay more or less the same as the last incarnation. Fans also like to feel important, but might want a setting change, necessitating a legacy character.
People are all over Breath of the Wild because it's a generic sandbox Morrowind rip-off with token crafting and all the other asinine shit that are all the rage with consumers these days.
I hang around with a lot of Sup Forums burnouts, but even among them it takes a special kind of autism to care about the lore in Zelda as more than just dressing. That's the whole point of the interchangeable character thing. People don't give a shit if it's the same Link, what they give a shit about is whether it looks like Lord of the Rings or some cartoony coloring book.
>TFW there are people still triggered by BotW Link being right handed
Pls never come to Sup Forums with your retardedness.
Link is not a different person in each game, you retard.
It's canon that he reincarnates into each link.
There's definitely still problems with legacies in games. They tried to introduce Locke in Halo 5 as another protagonist and everybody hated him. And it's not just a writing problem. Lots of people hated the Arbiter parts of Halo 2
>3 different Donkey Kongs
I know of Cranky = DK (NES) and DK = DK Jr, but who's the third?
Carmack is a washed up autisto
Not me.
I want more topdown style. I grew up on Gameboy Zelda.
Mass Effect Andromeda is hitting that now. Course its more the shit writing making it hard to get into Rider as the protag than anything else.
Nah, people sperg over Robins too. Not as bad, but they still do.
Carmack sounds like a dumbass.
Story-driven games are separate from gameplay releases.
Nobody buys Mario for the new story, nobody buys Mass Effect or Telltalle Games games for gameplay.
Both exist.
That's a different person each time regardless of reincarnation.
Unless memory and personality remains intact.
Technically any Kong starring in a Donkey Kong game.
So Dixie.
user, please. Each Link is a different person, and simply possesses the 'Spirit of the Hero', which is the thing that basically keeps reincarnating.
Each Link is different, except for the link from Oot and Majora's Mask, the Link from A Link to the Past/Oracle of Ages & Seasons/Links Awakening, Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass, and Legend of Zelda/Zelda II
In fact, in Twilight Princess, the 'Hero's Spirit' is a character you encounter and learn from, who was the previous incarnation of Link.
Wind Waker Link actually has no connection to the previous Links, as the Link from OoT went back into the past, breaking the cycle. WW Link then basically has to prove he is worthy.
A reincarnation is still a different person, despite some similarities here and there
>*glass him*
>3 and Andromeda
Well whoever's buying it, they sure as hell ain't buying it for the story either.
If you actually think BotW is a good game, kill yourself.
I didn't say they get what they paid for. Just that gameplay is the obstacle to earn your story in those games, not the means through which the enjoyment is largely derived.
Zooming around in the Mako was funstrating and cover shooting was okayish, but people got into that for Rex, Garrus, Tali, and the sense of being space cop Indiana Jones.
Link barely has any personality and all of his incarnations look the same.
Would playing a game with decent enough gameplay and a decent enough story for its fucking amazing atmosphere and visuals be gameplay or story?
I think it's more like, Nintendo doesn't and navel did make a big deal about Link being a different incarnation that the player inserts themselves as. Marvel however glorifies the hell out their new character and makes it sound like you couldn't have related to 'insert progressive OC here' before if the reader was black or some shit.
Gameplay.
Also SotN is better than all those games you just posted.
Dude I don't know about you, but I can't finish unless the girl has a fun personality and a well developed character arc of her getting two dicks in her ass.
>while other forms of media like Games do it all the time and very few people talk about it.
You are so fucking stupid I really hope you either gain intelligence or die soon.
People bitch at legacy shit all the time. When Windwaker was released there was non stop bitching about how it wasn't a Zelda game and may cry foul on all fronts from visuals to the Hero
Other M was a huge reboot of Samus that fans hated with a passion and all but killed the brand
The newest GoW was meet with contempt over changes made
Devil May Cry 2 was hated for it changes in narrative and tone
I could go on forever because that industry is just as sensitive to change as comics. Same with films, TV, Books and so forth. None of this shit is new and I hope you wise up to that before you embarrass.
It's because Zelda is the Hero's Journey. It's an ageless metastory. Comics tend to tell different stories altogether.
Temperament, expressions, that sort of thing. They tend to be lazy in the beginning.
>while other forms of media like Games do it all the time and very few people talk about it.
confirmed for never following any gaming community
Castlevania in general is like that.
Gameplay is mediocre, stories are usually better off not existing, and most characters in the series look like Korean ladyboys in cosplay.
But dose backgrounds, dat music, dem monsters.
Squidward Sword is still shit.
>castlevania
>mediocre gameplay
The 2D ones have great gameplay though.
>Link is a completely different person in each Zelda game (with few exceptions) and no one cares at all, despite each one being different in everything from age, personality, temperament, hair colour and even costume
Are you for real? Link does the same shit every game, acts the same way, even dresses almost the same every single time, he's basically the same character every game, you couldn't come up with a different trait for them even if you tried.
>Donkey Kong
Holy shit, who gives a fuck about Donkey Kong lore.
>Snake
That's not even close to being the same thing.
I cannot conceive of a person who unironically obsesses over fucking Zelda lore.
You may as well pore over the lore of the Doom franchise or, I don't know, Mad Max? The idea of trying to connect a grand narrative tapestry out of a franchise which basically repeats "Blond twink elf travels the land to stab a gigantic pig over and over" seems like lunacy.
Don't forget Dark Souls 1 to 2, Bloodborne's existence, Metal Gear Solid 5 twist on what it does on lore, Halo 5 that out right has a legacy character, Resident Evil ORC, Final Fantasy, Warcraft, Fallout, and well shit just about everything has had a "not muh" in video games
>Are you for real? Link does the same shit every game, acts the same way, even dresses almost the same every single time, he's basically the same character every game, you couldn't come up with a different trait for them even if you tried.
Original link is a silent adventurer
Toon link is more sarcastic compare to the other links. And little more happy.
Twilight link is a country boy.
Ocarina time is a anti-social
I think skyward sword link is like a school boy.
>Metal Gear Solid 5 twist on what it does on lore
Kojima wasted 9000000000000000 yen on what amounted to a gigantic trolling of the fanbase and the closing of a plot hole that no one cared about. That goes beyond not muh.
DK 1 was Cranky/ Arcade
DK2 was Jr
DK 3 was Country
Raiden is an example of him having a shitty introduction. Literally stealing the starring role from Snake and spending the whole game not knowing anything about anything soiled his appearance for fans. But then, much like War Machine, he crafted his own identity and is liked more now than he ever was in 2. If he was introduced and advertised as the lead right from the beginning, it would have been a smoother transition. (The website for MGS2 still says that Snake is the lead, btw)
I think you're overly simplifying the issue there. Leaving out Demise and Ghirahim for one thing...
Saying that someone is unlikable is subjective. When Rhodey took over the role of Iron man back in the day they got almost no complaints despite it being a less enlightened time than today. Meanwhile people are still bitching about Captain Falcon despite Sam being Steve's partner longer than Bucky has, relatively speaking. Also see my point above about Raiden. He was absolutely hated by everyone who played MGS2, but after disappearing for a while, being the butt of a joke in 3, and returning as a super cool Cyborg in 4 (Which technically means he took both Snake's mantle and Grey Fox's role as the Cyborg Ninja), he's now got just as much love and respect as Solid Snake and Big Boss. Saying legacy passing is shit and should never happen, means we never would have gotten MGR:R. The same could happen to any of the characters you're complaining about now. Give them time and put them in a different role, and it'll make a world of difference
he's right about botw and you know it
Fair enough but my bigger point was more OP makes it sound like gamers are chilled people when the reality is they are just as hostile and negative to these kinds of changes as any other medium.
>People are all over BotW because it's finally what people have wanted since OoT.
was there a joke in there i missed?
BotW was terrible though.
>Fair enough but my bigger point was more OP makes it sound like gamers are chilled people when the reality is they are just as hostile and negative to these kinds of changes as any other medium.
Oh I don't disagree with you on principle, it's just that the salt still runs through my veins for 5.
Oh yeah? RE fans really accepted Jake and like him way more than Chris and Leon
>Oh yeah? RE fans really accepted Jake
That's more about trying to find the kernels of corn in the manure pile that is RE6.
> and like him way more than Chris and Leon
o i am laffin
I actually did like Jake, but the post was sarcastic user
TMNT does it all the time.
It's just that they do it great 9/10 times. They all make sure that they stick to what makes TMNT great, while pulling from it's history and adding just a little bit of new stuff.
...
>That face.
I forgot that Tumblr noses were a thing and ruined all they touched.
>with token crafting
Only four special weapons in the game can even be crafted. Your comeback is going to be, "That's what makes it token," but you already made it clear you didn't play or even really watch the game. You mentioned this minor extra that lets you hang on to gifted weapons without granting you four free pass permanent slots like it was a detriment to the experience.
I haven't slept in over 24 hours, my sarcasm detector is off
I did when I was thirteen and was obsessed with LTTP. But yeah, growing up changes how you see what's really important in games and stories.
I wasn't trying to say they were chill, far from it. I was on Sup Forums when GG happened, so I know all about how stupid they are. I'm trying to say more that no one cares that Altair got replaced by Ezio, who got replaced by Conner, who got replaced by Edward, whereas people were ready to boycott Devil May Cry 4 over Nero replacing Dante, before gameplay footage was released and people accepted him. DMC Dante was a disgrace, but then again, so was the whole game, so that's just a drop in a bucket of complaints
Stop being such a retarded casual. People don't have a problem with legacies as long as they are done organically. See DC.
They have a problem when they are rushed and forced immediately. See Marvel.
> I'm trying to say more that no one cares that Altair got replaced by Ezio, who got replaced by Conner, who got replaced by Edward, whereas people were ready to boycott Devil May Cry 4 over Nero replacing Dante
AssCreed had the concept of different protagonists built into he mainline narrative though, that's part of the premise. That's fairly rare for a triple-A franchise.
Dante was always the hero of DMC. It'd be more like replacing Desmond with someone else, but no one gives a salty fuck about Desmond Miles so it didn't matter when that happened.
>but that idea rarely seems to be explored in comics
You don't read comics.
For me it depends on who the replacement is. It needs to be someone who makes sense.
Dick taking over for Bruce as Batman? Great.
Laura taking over for Logan as Wolverine? Fine.
Bucky taking over for Steve as Captain America? Fantastic.
It's when completely unrelated or weird choices happen that I fucking hate it.
Like that random nigger girl for Tony Stark, or Kamala for Carol.
>self insert meme
You haven't played the games
The reason there was so much negativity toward Wind Waker had nothing to do with Link and Zelda, it was because of the deliberately-shitty art style.
Those seem like very minor differences.
It's still just slightly different versions of the same character over and over again.
Well maybe except Toon Link.
>Number of people who have been Captain America:
Steve Rogers> Isaiah Bradley (Unofficially)> John Walker> Jeffrey Mace/ Patriot 1> Bucky Barnes> Sam Wilson
>Number of people who have been Captain Marvel:
Mar-vell> Monica Rambeau> Genis Vell> Phyla Vell> Carol Danvers> Kamala (Eventually?)
>Number of people who have been Thor:
Thor> Beta Ray Bill> Eric Masterson> Jane Foster> New Ultimate guy (Odin?)
>Number of people who have been Iron Man:
Tony Stark> Rhodey> Dr. Doom (Riri is Iron Heart technically)
>Number of people who have been Ant Man:
Hank Pym> Scott Lang> Eric O'Grady
Mantles do happen in comics, they just never stick because everyone wants to go back to the original one because that's the one they grew up with.
> it was because of the deliberately-shitty art style.
I NEED MATURE ZELDA
THE BLADES NEED TO BLEED
NEED TO BLEED
E
E
D
T
O
B
L
E
E
D
>I'm trying to say more that no one cares that Altair got replaced by Ezio
1. you were reliving ancestors memories in the games so as a starting narrative it was understood it would work like Dial H
2.people still did care a lot
> people accepted him
People as a whole NEVER accepted Nero, what cooled their heels was when Dante gameplay footage happen and was in the demo. To this day most still dislike him
You are just trying to create a narrative that just isn't there
>implying that for some reason Donkey Kong Jr and Country are different characters
>Implying MGS4 Raiden is better than MGS2 Raiden
>preferring MGS4 to MGS2
Go kill yourself, you mentally retarded waste of space
>Solid Snake
>Naked Snake
Okay, they were taking the piss, right?
hey now, stop insulting the mentally retarded wastes of space out there, even they can see how dumb the guy is.
Legacies work better in stories that have well-defined endings, something that American comics (especially those in the Marvel and DC universes) almost never have.
The way a legacy can work best in an open-ended comic is like with the Robins. DIck graduated to being Nightwing, an identity he's now as much if not more associated with as Robin, and thus it doesn't feel like he's being pushed aside when somebody else takes up the Robin codename.
You seriously don't know shit about Metal Gear?
>Solid Snake fights against his clone brother with recessive genes, Liquid Snake
>They are clones of Naked Snake
I would argue that skyward link and Link to the past Link got some personality.
You should read their mangas.
>Okay, they were taking the piss, right?
Kojima's career is a delicate balance of being equal parts pretentious lunatic who considers himself the god of storytelling and gigantic goofball troll who loves having a laugh.
don't forget Solidus Snake
Gas Snake when?
Don't forget those two Captain Americas both named William.
Because obviously that's the only alternative to an art style that looks like it was drawn by a kindergartner.
This, and the fact that Comic Book legacies have an unfortunate tendency to try and one up or otherwise shit on the predecessor.
>Because obviously that's the only alternative to an art style that looks like it was drawn by a kindergartner.
Prefer that style, It is more timeless than a "How much realistic/mature can i get" shit.
I never played 4 but I have seen the cutscenes and talked about it with people who did play. I'm mostly talking about Revengeance, which was the sequel to 4, where cyborg Raiden first appeared, and was popular with fans to the point where he got his own spin off. MGS 2 Raiden wasn't popular and they had to go back to a Snake that looked like Solid, Big Boss, as a result.
Also yes, the official story is that Cranky was the DK from the arcade and he had Jr. And since the current DK is Cranky's Grandson, that means either the DKC DK was either Jr's son or Jr himself and the current one showed up in 64 or Jungle beat
Legacies when done right are awesome. Look at Wally West or Kyle Rayner. They flurished after taking over their respective mantles. The transition felt natural, organic. Hell my favorite period of Batman is when Dick was under the cowl. If you do it right then they're awesome.
Do it wrong, and you have current Marvel. Some of their legacy attempts work. Falcon Cap was fine because it was a logical direction that Cap's partner would take. I even don't mind Miles and Peter co-existing. But when to force it with Fem Thor and others, making changes for the sake of changes, that's when they start to suck. It isn't natural and turns people off.
Ah... good old Dickbats. We hardly knew ye.
>Were you around when Windwaker came out? It was literally NOT MUH ZELDA AND LINK over and over and over again.
God I remember hearing that for years
>meme
Wasn't it outright stated by the creator that he designed Link so that the player could easily project themselves onto him?
>shitty
Nigger fuck you Wind Waker is stylish and charming as fuck.
Looks like Link finally got sick of the durability system
>deliberately-shitty
Pack your bags and get the fuck out, faggot
Because Zelda games acknowledge the passing of time, aka that the Status Quo doesn't dominate the narrative.
I'd much prefer to see a Gotham where Bruce ages in real time, Gordon eventually retires and is succeeded by Ellen Yindel/Yin (and later by Barbara farther in the future), and people move on with their lives.
I'd like to see Peter Parker grow up and run Parker Industries full time, while eventually be succeeded by Miles Morales. Not gave him be killed off, turned evil, or kidnapped in another dimension until his inevitable return-----just leaving down the mantle.
My problem with Marvel is that instead of moving in the direction of, for example, Marvel 2099, they're perpetually stuck in the present and refuse to age the characters with the passing of time.
Yeah and he hasn't been involved since 1998
Don't get me started on Demise's bullshit.
>Skyward Sword had similar issues with "fans".
Skyward Sword was plain old shitty, user. I've gobbled up every Zelda that came before it, even Twilight Princess but SS was too much of a fucking disappointment, I'm glad it was Aounuma's wake up call.
>Why are so many people angry when someone new comes along and takes up an older heroes name and costume?
Because 9 times out of 10 that character is an obvious gimmick with no real substance and is shittily written. Plus it's insulting to have a character you like screwed over for the sake of a publicity stunt. Well handled legacies are fine, and even have fans. Kamala, Robbie, Miguel, Mayday, Dickbats, the Robins, Beta Ray Bill, and yes fuck you Sup Forums, Sam. All decent or even good legacies. It's easy to not to notice them though when you have anons loudly shitting on Miles or Whor or whoever.
Those game series have only lasted a few decades. The comics have run on about three times as long.
Also how do you not remember people freaking out over Raiden and Toon Link