Okay RLM just suggested that the Star Wars universe is kind of bare bones with not much to work with if they arn't rehashing old plots. (presumably because the EU was crap and double non-canon)
What would you like to see as a 'non-traditional' Star Wars plot?
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That was a pretty shitty criticism honestly. They had a blank slate to go with for the ST and chose to rehash instead of build upon the universe. There is no sense of scale in the new movies at all, the prequels at least felt like they were dealing with a huge Galaxy.
They're right in the sense that as soon as you introduce something new and different, it doesn't feel like Star Wars anymore and feels "off". The prequels are a case in point. So you're stuck with rehashing familiar elements, i.e. Rebellion against Empire, light versus dark, etc,...
TFA and TLJ, while on opposite sides of the spectrum, both exemplify the limitations to the Star Wars universe. You can be as faithful, or as iconoclastic as you want, the end result will always feel like either a repetition or a perversion of the OT. Same goes with the prequels, I was quite surprised that Mike felt that bringing politics back to Star Wars, like the prequels did, would be a good idea. This was one of the main criticisms he made in the Plinkett reviews.
At the end of the day, what you have is a very shallow light sci-fi/fantasy setting, whose identity revolves around a few simplistic binaries and some recognisable aesthetics.
I guess the closest we got to success from deviating from the OT was KOTOR, but what works in video games won't necessarily in movies.
>I was quite surprised that Mike felt that bringing politics back to Star Wars, like the prequels did, would be a good idea. This was one of the main criticisms he made in the Plinkett reviews.
Someone's going to splice those segments together in a video aren't they.
>They're right in the sense that as soon as you introduce something new and different, it doesn't feel like Star Wars anymore
This is because Mike the fag is so obsessed with the OT that any addition to it he considers contradictory to the religion in his head. He's a zealot to the OT. He's the worst kind of fan. The one who refuses to venture outside his safe space.
Fuck Mike fuck RLM fuck Disney.
The prequels managed to still be Star Wars while not doing a rebels vs empire plot.
First off, they say that as a criticism, but it doesn't have to be. Sure, the universe doesn't have much to it, but that also means there's lots of room to make up new things whole-clothe. Disney will just never allow that because it would alienate the fanboys and is therefore not good business.
As for your question:
- A gritty noir about an imperial bureaucrat who doesn't know or care about any of this force shit and is just trying to do his job and make a difference in a crazy world.
- A swashbuckling space adventure about smugglers running spice in the outer rim, with no references at all to galaxy-ending disasters or wars.
- Kinda too late now, but if they wanted to undercut the black-and-white morality of Star Wars with the next trilogy, it should have been about a strong new republic descending into complacency and corruption.
I hope so. These guys are hypocrite fucks. They criticized the prequels based on BTs videos in the earlier videos and now they praise them as "geniune".
Fuck RLM. Their hypocrisy knows no end.
Don't worry boss with Solo and Johnsons's new trilogy they'll be back to loving us again
this
A war/genocide tale where the protagonist has to struggle betweem his morals and the duty of his job...directed by Mad Mel
But the problem with the prequel politics wasn't just that they existed; they didn't make any sense. Nobody had a coherent motivation to do any of the things they were doing.
If it were tightly written, it would've been fine to have that stuff.
>They're right in the sense that as soon as you introduce something new and different, it doesn't feel like Star Wars anymore and feels "off".
Fuck you. You're an idiot.
>Guys. Look how contrarian I am. Give me upboats.
I would've liked to see Kylo Ren and Rey join up and do their own thing and I wasn't surprised when RLM said that too. I think a lot of people felt that way.
The thing about Star Wars being kind of 'bare bones' is that it's bare bones because the only really good Star Wars stuff people care about, IV, V, VI and VII are all very similar. You fix that problem by
A) Doing something new.
B) Doing it in a way that's good and that people will respond to.
The prequels had the former but just fucking shanked it in basically every way possible on the latter. TLJ and Rogue One were both competently made films that had structural issues and the trappings of trying something new, but you can just see the hand of the studio reigning it in before it gets TOO out there. Moreso with Rogue One than TLJ, TLJ actually had an opportunity to go out and do something different, I though.
That's the only way you can make Star Wars less barebones or shallow or whatever you want to call it. Do something new and good and add it to Star Wars. I think TLJ had opportunities to do that but didn't grasp them as aggressively as it should've.
I really liked TLJ for its characters and for what I think its intent was, but the more I think about it, it's hard not to see it as a missed opportunity and I think in the end this trilogy is going to be hurt by its failure to seize the chance it had.
Please elaborate, I'm genuinely curious as to why you would take such offense at what I wrote.
To clarify, I'm not putting words in their mouths. This is just one of the ways I feel that they're may be right.
Eat shit Mike.
A more well-executed heist picture than Rogue One.
Politics are just an element of a plot, if you can execute them well, they'll work fine. I don't think anybody wants to see Kylo and Rey arguing about trade disputes, but them trying to sort through the structure of the First Order and turn it into something that's a positive on the universe is not a terrible idea.
ESB and ROTJ each introduced new things; did they not "feel like Star Wars"? The problem with everything since Empire is shitty execution; if it was well-executed people wouldn't feel that way at all.
Rey should have turned to the dark side. Then there would actually be conflict in the next movie.
Because it's blatantly wrong to anyone that doesn't treat OT as religion. KOTOR1/2, ROTS and Rogue One are all decent SW additions past OT. And even the OT is plagued with flaws.
Mike is an idiot for being so obsessed with his childhood. It's pathetic. He mocks manchildren in the latest video but doesn't even realize the irony of his pathological OT obsession.
>ROTS and Rogue One are all decent SW additions
This is where you lose all credibility
THIS a million times.
Star Wars is not inherently limited. It feels that way because nobody has both the balls to add add new things AND the ability to make those new things likable.
Says the OT fanatic
I fucking hated the Republic vs Separatists conflcit.
The Republic are supposed to be the good guys because they stand for 'muh democracy' and have Jedis on their side, and yet they use armies of cloned human beings to fight their wars for them
And the Separatists were all cartoon one-dimensional villains. Every single one of the Separatist leaders were just corporate fucks who left the republic because of tax policies or some shit.
How can anyone look at that shit and be emotionally invested?
Lucas should have actually taken a risk and made the Republic look increasingly evil and sinister while humanizing the Separatists. That would have made the whole transition to the Empire make more sense instead of the sudden 180 transformation we got in Revenge of the Sith.
Think of a story where our supposed heroes have to slowly realize that the precious Republic they're fighting for are actually the bad guys.
They're 100 percent right. Lucas tried to mix it up and everyone screamed that it wasn't like the other SW movies and shamed him into selling the franchise. Disney made a shitty rehash of ANH and everyone loved it. It's an extremely limited universe to make films in.
He's a zealot to Star Trek, not Star Wars. Get that right first you hack fraud.
>eu was crap because muh e-celeb idols say so
t. Nigger who's never read a book outside of Harry Potter
i'd like to see disney use the scripts Lucas made for them
Seven Samurai in the Star Wars universe
>What would you like to see as a 'non-traditional' Star Wars plot?
What's the point? The OT is a classic fantasy tale following the Hero's Journey. It's an entirely self-contained story, and anything trying to "expand" upon that is basically beating a dead horse.
But if you really, REALLY wanted to make another story set in the Star Wars world, you'd need to make it either a variation of the Hero's Journey that adds depth to the original theme.
OR
Take a few of the themes that the OT presented, focus on them entirely, and explore them to their fullest extent. Much like how Hook was a perfect sequel to Peter Pan, because it did this.
Wasn't this Zack Snyder's pitch to LucasArts?
i don't know
I don't hate RLM even though they make judgments that sometimes make no sense. What I do hate is how people blindly take everything they say as gospel. It's probably better than taking Channel Awesome or Cinema Sins as gospel but that's not saying much.
Yeah it was his pitch
denofgeek.com
kill yourself retard
I'd see that.
new skywalker baby is born. both Jedi and Sith try to hunt down the bastard because they both agree what trouble the skywalker line causes the galaxy. normal people try to fight off both Jedi and Sith.
No what's limited is the boundaries of faggot fanboy tastes which is why you have to ignore what the average idiot wants and write good and compelling characters and stories. The foundation of Star Wars is always going to be solid characters; they disregarded that as early as Jedi so Lucas could fuck around with effects and puppets and shit because he's an obnoxious asshole. Make new, good, characters, and put them in the galactic empire setting and amazing things can happen. It's a universe waiting to be explored by decent writers who know how you to make you care about a good character.
Why does it matter. If Disney didn't listen to george Lucas, they aren't going to use a story posted on a korean image board.
I think some of the rules in the star wars universe are bullshit.
Like the Rule of Two for the Siths.
>presumably because the EU was crap
It was but it had plenty of good shit they could take
>ancient Sith
>Tales of the Jedi
>KotOR 2
>New Jedi Order
Any of these would have been different enough, but they had to just straight up rehash the classic movies.
They're 100% wrong. There are so many stories they could done with the new trilogy.
>New Republic starts to fall apart, half joins up with Empire
>old Rebellion members split, some go with one group, some go with another
>more emphasis on smuggling in the outer rim planets
>Empire a broken mess, with none of the supremacy it has and oddly enough some of the old rebels have to help rebuild it
>Empire builds a new superweapon, but it turns out to be a decoy to lure enemy into a trap
Instead we got the all 3 OT movies rehashed.
You know what's REALLY a fucking problem is saying Lightsabers are only a Jedi weapon so there's all kinds of fucking baggage tying everything to this Anakin Skywalker lineage; that's the fucking problem, man. Everybody wants to see lightsaber fights but nobody was willing to do them without it being connected to Vader in some arcane way because he was so iconic he set the standard for it. All you have to do is change that, get the Jedi Order out of the picture and you can do whatever you want with them; it's a great visual effect and it should be allowed to be used outside that scope.
disney has billions I'm sure they can afford to hire competent writers to come up with something for fuck sake.
anyway, here is a possible scenario:
-After 30 years since rotj, the republic was reborn on the outer rim worlds, while the central core worlds are still suffering from the vacuum of power created by the empire's demise.
Luke has rebuilt the jedi order on the new republic capital and sends out jedi's all over the galaxy on peacekeeping missions. They assist the republic in trying to deal with the space pirates and space warlords pillaging the core worlds, and in trying to forge relationships with core system aimed at expanding the republic towards the inner core.
With the republic being ineffective at restoring peace in the anarchic core systems, a force sensitive archeologist goes around the galaxy looking for sith reliques. He lost his family in a space pirate attack or something and his motivation is to restore order- by any mean necessary. We follow him in both his discoveries of the extended sith mythology, and while he assembles an army from various space marauders (splinters of the empire's army, disillusioned rebels, rogue clones, alien pirates). To spice things up he could discover some weird unnatural power, shit like out of kotor 2
lightside protagonists should include a young jedi trained by luke and his padawan,
Spin off idea: Sith centric apocalypto like movie, we explore the ancient sith and how their culture progressively becomes more barbaric and perverse, and eventually the rule of two is introduced after a bloody sith civil war\genocide
he's so IMMATURE and CHILDISH for not liking the product I have to shill!
Has it occurred to you that the Jedi Order is an inherently flawed and boring concept because of how restrictive it is to storytellers and characters?
The prequels already did that. Only Mike the fag was bothered by that small useless ass detail in OT anyways. Like mentioned, he's an OT fanatic. He's extremely biased to his OT. For all we know the Emperor might very well have been talking about that particular light sabre crystal. Or they could use that as an excuse.
>denofgeek.com
I didn't know Snyder also had this idea. I guess there is nothing new under the sun.
Anyways, i wouldn't want to see him as director.
I also wouldn't want it to be all jedi helping the village either. I'd prefer for it to be maybe one ex-jedi (like Ben Kenobi) or force sensitive individual. All jedi would be too easy.
There's no need for excuses. Have people who are at least somewhat skilled with the force enough to use lightsabers without killing themselves and don't have them connected to Jedi or Vader in any way (I'm still not pretending the prequels actually exist.)
>muh video games
Nobody cares, we're talking about a medium that respects the time of the viewer and doesn't want you sitting there for 10 hours watching the player character discuss the force with their party members
Also it's funny you consider RotS and Rogue One decent when it rides off the coat tails of the OT more so than any of the other prequel movies, and Rogue One having an OT reference or cameo every 10 minutes
>The Republic are supposed to be the good guys because they stand for 'muh democracy' and have Jedis on their side, and yet they use armies of cloned human beings to fight their wars for them
No, you childish moron, why do you need to be spoonfed with a story where "you realize that the government are actually the bad guys", of which there are dozens!?
Lucas has shown the transformation of a Republic into the Empire through militarization and the establishment of "the Other" thanks to the image of the enemy cultivated by getting the most outwardly ugly, evil separatist aliens to fight against them. Xenophobia, militarism and witch hunts against the Jedi were thus justified by the rising Empire. The Jedi being idiots and not realizing that they were fighting alongside de-facto fascist regime stormtroopers until it was too late is the point, the whole idea of the Republic would be about letting separatists go their own way, but Palpatine's manipulation has created a conflict based on the public's hate for the aliens, robots and corporations, allowing him to rise as a populist Emperor. It's literally based on the historical rises of the Roman Empire, the French Empire and the Third Reich.
What about a shakespeare adaption in the star wars universe? In the way that Kurosawa did Ran and Throne of Blood as shakespeare adaptions in Japan?
I don't understand what you want. It sounds like you want a story of the Jedi working without knowing for the bad guys.
Which is exactly what happened in the prequels.
But Rogue One did it in a good way. It was a little hammy yeah but they were so close to pulling it off.
SW is an entry level casual sci fi. The legions of lightsaber waving numale manchildren compose the majority of the audience. SW is entirely limited in the stories you can tell because of that fanbase. Lucas tried to tell a political drama, and the reaction was "LOL BORING POLITICS SHIT WHO CARES I WANNA SEE LIGHTSABERS." For all practical purposes, the RLM guys are right. The franchise has gotten far more nuanced stories in the form of books and, surprisingly, video games. In terms of films though, the universe is absurdly limited.
Star Wars is a poisoned chalice
Corporations, like Czerka, are a really underexplored part of Star Wars. The sith are evil because their religion tells them to be, Czera is evil because they're soulless businessmen.
Like, imagine a group of plucky heroes fighting against Weyland-Yutani
A prequel to the prequels would have been good
instead we get more communist rebels vs fascist imperials
lame
Lucas fucked it up, you dipshit. Like I said earlier the key to everything is execution. The prequel trilogy is fucking garbage because no one cared about making it interesting, not because it was a political metaphor.
that wasnt the point, the BTS prequel vids showed the problems during production, and the new BTS videos are too fake and manufactured to make them look like there aren't any problems on set and that everything's perfect
>Think of a story where our supposed heroes have to slowly realize that the precious Republic they're fighting for are actually the bad guys.
this to be honest. This would have been far more interesting
That was pretty much Knights of the Old Republic 2 for me.
I agree with this but do you think Disney will learn and let future films do something different? I have some hope but not much
>Rule of two
>Sheev had hundreds of force empowered lackies
>trained them all wrong as a joke and so they wouldn't steal his power
I like it. Gives you lots of room to run Jedi stories without everyone having galaxy ending superpowers
>(I'm still not pretending the prequels actually exist.)
grow up
there are things that should have been done differently (not even talking about jar jar here), but overall its alright.
you do have a point.
Finn and Sabine from Rebels have shown you can lightsaber fight without being a Jedi in mouseverse
But that's exactly what happened?
>In terms of films though, the universe is absurdly limited.
I feel like this is the entire point of that whole discussion in the video, the movies can't waste too much time on philosophical debates, meanwhile writers or video game developers can take their time and make truly unique worlds, aliens and explore the galaxy in detail.
When Rich is going on about how the Star Wars universe is "lightsabers, WW2 dogfights in space, guy in black armor, evil empires" that's pretty much what 99% of the fanbase knows and cares about, and they have expectations that these elements will be present when going to watch a SW movie.
No wonder you don't have too many directors jumping at the chance to direct a Star Wars movie for Disney, it really feels like a trap
Finn is a joke character protected by plot armor; wielding a lightsaber is supposed to be incredibly dangerous without the force.
You're a little too concerned with what it could be in theory and not what it actually can be with the audience it has. When Lucas failed to execute his space politics in the prequels, the fanbase didn't go "I hope the space politics are better this time." They went "NO MORE SPACE POLITICS LOL." So in TFA, Disney didn't even explain the basic factions or political backgrounds underlying the war the movie was about, and just in case you forgot, the fanbase clapped like seals at this retarded omission. So no, nobody's about to make some offbeat Katarn western or Kotor 2 style mindfuck in the SW universe. It's massively limited in films because its retarded fanbase doesn't want to see anything but homages to the OT.
>they have expectations that these elements will be present when going to watch a SW movie.
Except they fucking show up anyway. Give it a shot. This is why it's fucking criminal that Disney was allowed to buy the IP because their concern for the bottom line will never let them take any real risks.
>gives you lots of room to run jedi stories
Yes, gives you almost no room to run sith ones.
the prequels, but not written by retards
>It's massively limited in films because its retarded fanbase doesn't want to see anything but homages to the OT.
And that's why you have to deliberately do something else and bank on the quality of the production to see it through.
>When Rich is going on about how the Star Wars universe is "lightsabers, WW2 dogfights in space, guy in black armor, evil empires" that's pretty much what 99% of the fanbase knows and cares about, and they have expectations that these elements will be present when going to watch a SW movie.
Yeah you said it better than I did here. That's what they're looking for, that's what they expect, and that's what they'll get.
This has bothered me ever since I saw the movie as a kid. Remember that scene where Obi Wan gets captured on Geonosis and while he's being held in that antigrav thing, Dooku goes "What if I told you, that the Republic was controlled by a Dark Lord of the Sith?" That story was right there, staring everyone in the face.
>It's massively limited in films because its retarded fanbase doesn't want to see anything but homages to the OT.
That's totally true, but the thing is: those retards will still pay to see it and buy the limited edition box set blu-rays, no matter how much they bitch. From a business perspective, there's no point in considering their opinions at all.
You can run a character who is literally a Sith in every way except name. Do you really need any more?
Or you could have two groups that both claim to be heirs to the Sith fighting over the title.
And if you do that you might as well not make it a Star Wars movie, because the fanbase is just going to throw a fit the moment they realize that your new Star Wars movie doesn't have a single lightsaber or Skywalker in it.
Who gives a shit they show up anyway, and you can still have lightsabers. One good fight a movie is all you need.
but they'll still show up because they can't resist the logo
I have a great idea. Create a new IP.
>You can run a character who is literally a Sith in every way except name.
And he can never interact with any other sith because there can only be 2, ever
>Or you could have two groups that both claim to be heirs to the Sith fighting over the title.
??? There can't be more than two, a master and an apprentice. At one moment there would be a master and two apprentices, before one of the apprentices kills the other. and that's as far as a Sith story could go.
Never a sith cult
never 2 students that have 2 different masters fighting for power
Never an investigation story, find the apprentice and you find the master, find the master and you find the apprentice.
Never really anything other than an edgy master manipulating one guy into the dark side. Boring limited story.
Smuggler adventure. What 1313 was supposed to be
...
It's brave, but foolish, my user friend. You're impossibly outnumbered by human credit cards waving plastic lightsabers at the ripe young age of 35.
And then they decided to make it about Boba Fett because, again, Star Wars fans are trendy retards who want the same thing every time.
I'm pretty worried that the reception to Last Jedi is gonna make them go full I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW IT from here on out and we're all gonna be super fucking burned out on Star Wars within five years.
>What would you like to see as a 'non-traditional' Star Wars plot?
I would not like to see anything, thank you. The original three movies are very good. I want nothing else from the franchise. Please make new movies instead of old ones.
I enjoyed the idea of the last Sith lord and the last Jedi knight falling in love and then The Last Order turns on them, and they take the resistance to die fighting. A child is then born, and it will lead the future resistance of the children shown on the casino planet. Star Wars is at its best when there are lightsaber duels and when there are morally grey themes.
The thing is, the prequels weren't a bad concept, they were just executed poorly (mainly the script and CGI).
>we're all gonna be super fucking burned out on Star Wars within five years
If you aren't burned out already, I envy you a little.
Alt-TFA
>Open to Imperial attack on New Republic outpost led by Finn, a leading a stormtrooper special operations team. They overwhelm the outpost garrison and capture several NR soldiers, highest ranking one being Poe, and their families.
>Kylo shows up, interrogates people, grabs Poe, orders Finn's team to execute the rest. Finn is shown to be disgusted with this order of killing unarmed soldiers and civilians.
>Through exposition we learn about the Imperial Remnant plan to destroy the NR
>Finn breaks, busts out Poe, and flees the Star Destroyer. They make it to hyperspace while Finn explains the Imperials found one of the Emperors warehouses with a new superweapon, and they've been remilitarizing in the unknown regions. They're planning to take out the NR leadership with a decapitation strike. He laments no one will believe him. Poe says I know someone who will.
>Jump to a NR cruiser where we meet Rey, one of Luke's new Knights thats investigating terror attacks in the Outer Rim (Imperials).
>Finn explains what's going on and they decide to warn to NR.
>Hosian system where we see a NR council arguing over the story. Leia is among them and states she believes Finn, while the majority of others state that the Empire is a rump state and some want to treat them with appeasement (ala Chamberlain)
1/2
I'm burned out on fucking capeshit, and so far the Monsterverse is going to shit. Cinematic Universes are garbage. If I ever see a Marvel character in a Star Wars film, I'm bagging some ARs and heading to Disney HQ
2/2
>Suddenly an Imperial ship jumps in orbit. We see the NR and Imperials engaging in orbit, while the heroes plus Leia make their way to their cruiser.
>A fuck huge imperial ship, an SSD, jumps in with more escorts. They carve their way though the NR defenses and we see the SD deploy a superlaser (basically it's the Eclipse), striking the surface and eliminating the Senate and military high commands.
>Finn says he knows a way on board, and the heroes plus a NR commando team board while the battle rages on.
>Kylo is on board, him and Rey do their lightsaber shit while the rest of the team sabotages the reactors or hyperspace drive or some shit. Team shows up and Rey is losing group, Kylo knowing the fight is done bugs out.
>Leave SSD, SDD is destroyed, the remaining NR forces under Akbar finally fight them off. Costly victory but they've stopped the assault, until we see a transmission (from Han or someone) that there are Imperial attacks across the NR.
>Rey says she must warn Luke of a new dark side user
>Akbar and Leia order the NR fleet to rally somewhere
>Leia and Finn have a dialogue stating that could use his help. Finn makes some heroic statement.
Cut to credits.
Yes/no half drunk ideas better than Disneys multi million dollar shit.
RLM always says that because they're retarded. SW has a very strong central theme of a battle between light and evil inside human souls and that is visualized with those humans joining either space nazis or space vatican. That premise is pottery itself. You can write Crime and Punishment as a Star Wars movie and it would work perfectly in the setting.
Why the FUCK is the First Order so powerful and armed to the teeth with megaweapons when they were on the losing end of the conflict just a few decades ago? They should've made the bad guys in the sequels a rebel/terrorist group or something. But I guess then they couldn't do le Nazi parallels.
I limit my engagement with the series. If a trailer drops, I watch it. If a movie comes out, I see it. I really love the original trilogy and I really like the sequel trilogy so far. Rogue One was okay. The prequels fucking sucked but I don't think about them anymore.
Besides that I just try to not get too involved or think about the series too much, because I don't want what I liked about it getting fucked up by oversaturating myself with the series or its weird fans.