Which one o these is a Mary Sue and why?

Which one o these is a Mary Sue and why?

The one that thinks the force is just moving rocks but knows all the wisdom in the original Jedi texts.

luke


can't be a mary sue if you're 1. evil 2. fail all the time

This
Rey might know how to fight and is strong in the Force, but darn, she fucks up all the time and gets constantly humiliated by more experienced folks.

>le clumsy gurl
She's just like us guys

>three white people
GROSS. AND RACIST
IT'S 2017 WE NEED NIGGERS

>she fucks up all the time and gets constantly humiliated by more experienced folks.
She aced every fight she was in

Anakin and Luke had character arcs by the 2nd movie.

both luke and anakin had been saved by others in their first movies, failed at things in the first two movies.

Rey has neither of these.

rey because she's never flown a spaceship yet she was able to pull off all that shit with the millennium falcon and because she was never trained in the force and didn't even know it existed but within seconds was able to hold her own against kylo.

The woman because mans potentenial is limitless

In the lore it explains that the at at that Rey is in has a flight sim and she used it for years

You have to 18 to post here.

Anakin is literally the messiah, if anyone could be a gary stu it was him and even he wasn't.

luke fails a lot.

Luke isn't.
Rey is.
Anakin is partly one, but only in Ep 1.

Kill me now, the amount of bullshit the nu-lore needs to do to remain convincing is downright embarrassing. At the very least they could've shown this in the scene of her eating her portion.

Also, how the fuck does a character who grew up with absolutely no family or friends not end up a completely wild recluse with sperg-level social dysfunction?

what does Rey do that makes her "fail all the time"? i've only seen TFA and the only thing i can thing of is her getting captured but she escape easily and it turned out to work in her favour.

How much time has elapsed exactly over the course of TFA and TLJ? A week, even less? Anakin and Luke at least had the excuse of years of training and trials to accrue their techniques and force powers, but Rey goes from being a literal who to the most powerful living force user over a weekend.

>anakin
Anger issues, impulsive, reviled by other jedi.
>luke
Whiny, no confidence, impulsive
>rey
Can do anything with no training, jedi master says she can't even learn anything from old jedi, can compete with a dark side user who had been training since he was a child.

Fuck you.

Anakin is literally the only good Star Wars character except Sheev, so not him.

>she fucks up all the time and gets constantly humiliated by more experienced folks.

When? that one time Kylo knocked her out, who she then defeated anyway, it took Snoke to overpower her completely ffs.
In the new film she still takes out every one of Snokes guards without needing any help, Kylo is the one that needed help.
She thinks the force is about moving rocks but somehow has as much wisdom as all the original jedi texts.
Shes boring.

>Luke failing is half the reason the NT happens
>He's a Gary Stu

Wew

Anakin was deeply flawed. His infinite potential for power and his natural goodness was undermined by his enormous insecurity, paranoia, and fear of loss. Anakin was more feared than respected, to the point where he felt like his friends were conspiring against him.

Luke is the plucky hero. Everything he has is earned. He gets beat up, dismembered, psychologically tortured, defeated repeatedly, and he yet triumphs in the end because he is a great man. He annoyed his friends until he earned their respect.

Rey is the quintessential Mary Sue. She flies the Falcon better than Han Solo without ever having flown a ship before. She's a better lightsaber duelist than Kylo Ren, a Sith warrior trained by the most powerful light and dark side force weilders of his era, and she beat up Luke Skywalker, the greatest Jedi of all time. She has mastered force techniques that golden age jedi took years to learn under the controlled conditions of a specialized temple. Her mechanical knowledge of ships is superior to that of the people who own those ships.
In terms of hardship, Rey got poked in the shoulder once by a small laser knife, but it didn't seem to harm her in any way. Everybody loves her, and wants her to join them.

Stop lining Rey up with these two legends. The narrative has changed, she’s not even a Skywalker. Just some scavenger that happens to have a classy British accent.

Rey cause she's a woman

>Grow up on outer rim junker planet
>Inexplicably develop an upper class Imperial core world accent

Not even a cockney accent, she's not allowed to have ANY flaws

this

Rey, and Anakin is a tale of destruction of a "chosen one" aka Mary Sue

First one is a slave from nowhere who is discovered to be literally Jesus in universe, has an innate skill for piloting from a young age, and eventually becoes a great warrior, after training for years under one of the wisest Jedi Masters, under the tutelage of the OG Jedi Council.
Also shown to be autistic and a misfit, what he has in power he lacks in character, ends up betraying all he believes in because he is psychologically weak, only to be redeemed decades later when he was humbled by someone much more noble than him.

Second one is a pig farmer who was a nobody and nobay ever gave two fucks about him, who happened to be the son of Jesus and thus was initiated by the same wise mentor who trained the first, who then discovered himself to be a great pilot (although he relied on magic to 'cheat' his way to victory).
During his first two appearances he is shown to be naive, awkward and can't hold his own, neither physically nor emotionally, be it when confronted with any adversaries (the first time he wins a fight is in RotJ) or confronted with adversities (dealing with the revelation of who is his father or with Yoda's toying). Only after a lot of time under two of the greatest mentors this world has ever seen does he begin to understand his place in this universe and his skills.
That said, he is always shown to be compassionate and virtuous, which, in the end, are the qualities that elevate him above his Jesus father. Ultimately he wins not through force, but by empathy. Whereas his father was strong, he was virtuous, and his spirit triumphs over his fathers' power in the end.
He also becomes a coward in later fanfictions, exiling himself much like one of his former mentors, except his mentor exiled himself to keep hope alive, whereas he exiled himself because he was sad and didn't want to deal with his mistakes.

Continued...

The new upgrade patches to Rey only make things wose, she apparently is the force incarnate, her understanding of the force is that "you move rocks" however Yoda thinks she has the wisdom contained in the original Jedi texts. Whats next for her? literal force transportation or some shit.

>needing supplemental materials for the movie to not be shit
The story group has ONE job

Anakin was just good at go kart racing before being trained for a decade.
Luke was just a good shot before getting trained by two of the best Jedi masters ever.
Rey was just amazing at everything without any training or insight into the force.

Yoda says that because she STOLE the jedi books.

>beat Luke
>steal his book

That Rey, you must teach. No wonder Luke suicided.

The one who made it through the second movie without being dismembered.

She doesn't need you to mansplain the force to her. The Force is Female, now.

Daily reminder Rey is non canon.

Rey is probably the biggest mary sue of any film in the past several decades.

>she apparently is the force incarnate
So like Aakin?
>Yoda thinks she has the wisdom contained in the original Jedi texts
She has the texts, took them before Luke knew, Yoda burn the tree to hide it.
>Whats next for her? literal force transportation or some shit.
Force dash was a dumb idea on the prequels and they forgot about it for a reason.

Rey is the most Mary Sue, while Luke is the least, but none of them are actually Mary Sues.

Third is a nobody who was left stranded in the middle of nowhere by her parents and somehow survived for years on end all while retaining the social graces you'd expect from a Disney princess.
Whenever faced with any form of adversity, be it physical (holding her own against a powerful sith adept with no training whatsoever, and then doing it again against the big bad's elite guard) metaphysical (innately able to discern and master advanced Force techniques she's never had any contact with without any guidance, such as Force persuade, levitate rocks, resist Force) social (is instantly liked by everyone, be it Han, Finn, Poe, Leia, Luke eventually and even her enemy, Kylo) or emotional (every internal conflict she has is resolved by herself and sheer introspection, suh as the halway mirror scene or turning down Kylo's offer). She always manages to come out on top with absolutely no prior training, experience, or explanation, just to move the plot foward and is basically a power fantasy. She has no character, just a set of skills, qualities, and a face. She has no nuance or personality outside of what is needed to overcome whatever adveristy the writers pit her against.

With all that said can you brainlets stop trying to argue your way out of this or turn the tables? Luke is not a mary sue, neither is Anakin. Rey is the textbook definition of one (as in, literally textbook: "Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling. This character can also be found burrowing her way into the good graces/heart/mind of one of the Big Three [Kirk, Spock, and McCoy], if not all three at once. She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship.[7]").

Rey is a character in a fan work, who is self insert (Kennedy’s), that inexplicably is the centre of the plot, is liked and/or obsessed over by everyone she meets, makes people act out of character for the purpose of making her look better and shows up established characters for the same reason, is better than almost anyone else at anything she sets her mind to and has little or no reason for any of the above being the case.

She’s a textbook Mary Sue that is rapidly approaching Bella Swan as the most egregious on screen example

Anakin works because from the beginning we know that he ultimately fails. Because we know he's destined to lose everything, the more he gains and the better he is, the bigger his fall.

Luke sucks at everything and loses every fight.

Rey is the best at everything, and wins every fair fight. Rey is the only Mary Sue.

Mary Sue shit is stupid, either way she's a boring character which is the part that matters

Rey is a static character with no purpose now but to be super strong in the force for some convoluted reason and to have a magical space vagina to heal Kylo Ben's angst. That she fell for his lie about her being nothing to the galaxy but not to him only made her more insufferable. She completely forgot about the hell Finn went through for her, just because the woobie badboy told her she's special.

It's obviously Rey and anyone who says otherwise is trolling.

>Luke would've been arguable as a Mary Sue but his ending turned him into a murderous hermit
>Anakin loses to almost anyone with a lightsaber in the prequels and murdered children
>Rey is able to defeat an experienced lightsaber/force user the first time she picks up a lightsaber, but sometimes she's a little clumsy teehee! XD

>Rey is a static character
>Star Wars is a static universe

>Anakin is literally the messiah
Why do you faggots eat this up? If they came up with this shit with Rey you'd all be pissed off. There was no fucking prophecy in the OT. Lucas came up with the space Jesus shit in the prequels because he's a hack

Are you retarded

Everyone shat on the space Jesus part at the time, you underage fuck, but Anakin is STILL better than rey in that regard because his story revolves around his eventual fall.

I like the idea that anakin is kind of a mary sue, he's great at the force and is granted this incredible dream opportunity, but it fucks his life up and makes him miserable

This. The audience knows what this kid grows up into. It was not a secret. A bit of dramatic irony. Beyond that only episode 1 can qualify because the kid is good at everything he does. Not so much in clones and revenge.

To be fair it WOULD have been better if rey was given some kind of explanation, but that flys in the face of what the series heads are trying to establish ie, anyone who tries hard enough can be a jedi.

>Anakin is the messiah
>Constantly acts like someone who's been told that his entire life
>Fails because of this
Bravo Lucas

She didn't try hard tho...

Rey

Anakin in super-powerful but nobody likes him

Luke has basically no abilities until he's been trained.

Why would an AT-AT have a flight sim? Why would a tank crew learn to fly planes?

Anakin is a mary sue in TPM but not in AotC or ROTS

The female one obviously.

>anyone who tries hard enough

Rey literally never had to try, she just picked up shit and was already beyond top tier at it

I'd put empowered child in a different category than Mary Sue. Empowered children are sueish because of their potential, but little Annie wasn't actually competent at any of the new shit he was trying, just very lucky.

My mistake, believes hard enough****

So hes better only because we know his full story? you can't use that as an argument, not until Reys story is complete too.

That's a very good question, someone should ask Abrams this question.

She never believed, didn't even know what this shit was to believe in. Lemme help you out though.

>"To be fair it WOULD have been better if rey was given some kind of explanation, but that flys in the face of what the series heads are trying to establish ie, anyone who FEMALES hard enough can be better than WHITE MALES."

this

I'm not going to suggest they won't try something with her origins in the third, after all luke was told an alternate origin story right out of the gate.

But I highly doubt it.

Not that different from a farmboy knowing how to fly an x-wing, "but the landspeeder" yeah if I know how to drive a car, I must know how to fly a fighter jet then.

He flew a T-16, it's an aircraft

While I agree with your definition, that makes Rey the mary sue in the force awakens.

In every OT movie, Luke is saved by someone else at least once.

She was BORN THAT WAY

Rey is the anti Anakin.
Anakin was the chosen one who always doomed to fail, while Rey is a nobody who will always succeed.
So long as Kennedy is in charge, anyway.

And yes, we can call Rey a raging Mary Sue, because literally nothing contradicts it thus far, while we knew the score for Anakin.
It will be different If we get a massive retcon or someone pulls a miracle out of the hat and makes her a good character, but that hasn’t happened and almost certainly won’t.

>"Skywalker, you sure you can handle one of these?"
>"Sir, Luke is the best Bush Pilot in the Outer Rim territories"
>"You'll do alright"

Anakin and Luke both have backgrounds as pilots. Neither of them had any force powers or lightsaber skills prior to their training

don't forget
>Training for the Imperial Academy
>"He was the best Star Pilot in the galaxy. I hear you're quite the pilot yourself"

Protip : You can't be a Mary Sue AND evil.

But Anakin didn't fail in the end.

The post was in reference to the prequels, user.

> (OP)
>I like the idea that anakin is kind of a mary sue, he's great at the force and is granted this incredible dream opportunity, but it fucks his life up and makes him miserable

That's not what a Mary Sue is you retarded fuck

Except he also flew a T-16 and used to shoot womprats with it.

I swear the people defending the new movies have watched even less of the original trilogy than the guys making the damn movies, and that's impressive.

Ah ok fair enough.

He's not a mary sue though. No one likes him or fawns over him other than the hippy and, despite the shitty lore stating he has mad midiclorians, he doesn't even do anything that impressive in the prequels.

He fucks up and loses fights regularly, he's on par with any other Jedi shown, the most you can say is he's doing good for how young he is.

Saying Luke was a Mary Sue, or that people wanted him to be one in TLJ, is one of the canned lines people reel off when they want to pretend to be shills.
Or they might actually be shills, it's hard to tell, but for all intents and purposes they're no different from average shitposters

She didn't get captured because she failed. She got captured because the plot needed to move her to the death star planet.

FUCKING THIS

yeah, that's what i meant when i said
>it turned out to work in her favour

That is a symptom of bad writing not Rey being a Mary Sue though. I feel like no one bothered to read about the definition of the word just so they can argue

That's not what a Mary Sue is. A character who has potential to be great, yet struggles to achieve said greatness through trials and tribulations, isn't a Mary Sue. Anakin never even really reaches his full potential because he gets in his own way. That isn't a Mary Sue. Even in the prequels he doesn't even beat Obi-Wan. He isn't some league of his own Jedi at any point. Rather, he has the potential to be more powerful than them. He's about as good as masters like Obi-Wan and Windu, which is really impressive considering his age, but he never really surpasses them.

This. Does anybody here genuinely know what a Mary Sue is? Rey is a Mary Sue, but I genuinely feel like most posters here are simply parroting the phrase with no understanding of what it means.

>Luke's arrogance and impatience became his downfall
>lost a limb due to getting ahead of himself in the 2nd movie
>had an inner conflict in the 3rd of whether or not to join his father

>Anakin seemed at first like a chosen one child
>the pressure of being told this is what becomes his downfall
>slowly see him use his power for evil
>eventually becomes a sithlord
>only redemption comes after being in 6 movies

>Rey never loses a fight
>she is only good
>in fact she's so good, she's constantly trying to make the villain turn good
>she's not a reincarnation of some high force being or related to powerful jedi
>she's strong just cuz

Gee boy oh boy idk tough one here

If she is, then which creator self-inserted herself as Rey?

The IV shot is the only one with atmosphere, goddamn.

It's funny you could pretty much claim that Anakin is a Mary Sue in Episode I, but he really doesn't do anything outside of his finale in the fighter, which is completely absurd but it's the only thing he does.

Rey's nail in the coffin was that she not only did one unbelievable thing, she kept doing them over and over in the most obnoxious and impossible way. If you cut out all of the dumb shit she did and just had her, say, figure out how to use a mind trick or have her use a lightsaber but not win against Kylo, just hold barely him off and maybe get injured like Luke in Empire, it would've been so much better and this Mary Sue uncomfortable fact wouldn't exist.

Kathleen Kennedy

Good breakdown, but I'd say that Anakin turned evil over Padme and love rather than just getting a big ego. I don't recall anyone ever telling him he was the chosen one until Obi-Wan at the end.

this guy gets it

Every liberal woman and feminist man at Disney and every libtard in America.

Mary Sue's aren't just self-inserts. They can be intended as POV characters for the audience. She's an insert for the audience.

That sorta makes sense that I can't really argue against, although i can only doubt how control a producer can have anyway. I guess you are the only one ITT who really knows what a Mary Sue is

as opposed to luke who defeated vader in cloud city right?

Mary Sue are explicitly inserts of the creator in his/her stories. A character who can do no wrong is only badly written, but to be a true Mary Sue, that character has to be less a person in a story and more of a creator's proxy/insert in an attempt to suck his own dick.

Wrong. Did you write the definition of all tropes? Shut up dude, you're just desperate.

Kennedy is the head of the Story group.
She has the power to make a self insert, and definitely lacks the shame not to.