Can someone please explain to me why they think TLJ is bad...

Can someone please explain to me why they think TLJ is bad. I only see a couple of problems and I don't like the idea of people saying it is "liberal propaganda". Some people also are saying that is worse than the prequels. It breaks my heart knowing that lots of people worked hard on this movie just to see it be criticized by people for flaws that sometimes don't exist. I want to know what everyone is thinking about this movie and I hope can persuade enough people to help the Star Wars franchise out.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=tNoMQSvNAWE&ab_channel=TheDishonouredWolf
youtube.com/watch?v=cL5oCP0VIEI
youtube.com/watch?v=tNoMQSvNAWE
youtube.com/watch?v=R0QPCS4a84k
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

...

Bank account number 23300694736hhh556492

watch this:

youtube.com/watch?v=tNoMQSvNAWE&ab_channel=TheDishonouredWolf

kys disney drone

Rey is shit

They'll make a billion dollars each year for eternity.

This is sad but true. Tired of seeing normies on Facebook post memes about TLJ being good

This

OT Star Wars is idealistic, the ST is a shitty "deconstruction" where the characters no longer behave in any way that they would have in the OT. Without very strong visual evidence for why Leia is no longer a feisty commander, or why the smuggler with a heart of gold who became a general for the rebels went back to being a smuggler, or why Luke, who we assume should be a more mature Jedi after ROTJ, is now standing over his sleeping nephew's bed, lightsaber in hand, after he redeemed Space Hitler.

I didn't even get into the new characters who are not built on established archetypes or well characterized. Why is Rey on this journey? What's actually motivating her? Luke wanted revenge for killing his aunt and uncle. Why does Finn join the rebels and have few qualms about killing his former comrades? Poe is decently characterized, but he's a pussy so no boy will look up to him like Han or Luke.

As much as you might want a "realistic, cynical tale set in the Star Wars universe" that shit is not Star Wars, it's fanfiction based on the universe. KOTOR2 did it well, but it's more appropriate for teenagers. Star Wars should imo be for enjoyable for all ages.

Holy fuck this nails it
This movie was an utter disgrace and I'm not even that big of a SW fan

I'm seeing it in an hour. I'll let you know.

It feels like the director forgot that episode 7 even happened. None of the plot points it appeared to be setting up went anywhere, destroying the Starkiller base doesn't seem to have weakened the FO at all and you'd expect it would get a lot of people to rally to the Resistance upon hearing about it. They failed to give us any proper development or backstory to any of the new characters except Kylo but then they made half the OT cast irrelevant, turned Leia into a superhero and Luke into a cowardly hermit. Who was I supposed to be rooting for? I actually enjoyed Poe and Finn in TFA but now Poe isn't allowed to do his thing and Finn does nothing important until the very end, but instead of a heroic sacrifice Rose somehow manages to teleport next to him and ruin everything. I was hoping Rey would get some training and development with Luke but that plot point got thrown out along with Luke's lightsaber. Kylo actually got some development and is by far the most interesting character in the movie but everything I saw before I watched TLJ implied he'd get a redemption arc so I'm pretty annoyed that they just turned him into the next villain.
I just don't understand what they were trying to do with this movie.

He wrote the script before TFA came out, it was confirmed in an interview. Apparently he didn't bother to make too many edits after it came out because lazy

Those are some good points, man. But Luke didn't try to kill a child...he just thought about it. He changed his mind last minute and created Kylo Ren. Luke is an impulsive guy, but he knows right from wrong. He stopped himself from killing Kylo just as he had stopped himself from killing Vader in RotJ. He went to a different planet to die outside the public eye, but he still had hope in him. Luke Skywalker returned to his old personality around the end of movie when his projection faced Kylo. Luke died on purpose so he could become a Force Ghost. Luke came to terms with his life choices at the end and helped the Resistance survive. I like that they did with Luke, it seems more realistic that would become depressed after destroying his own order because of an impulse. I like this Luke because he messed up, it seems better than an ultra powerful, super moral Jedi Superman.

Why the fuck would you write a direct sequel without knowing the script of the previous film?

So you're telling me...
Knowing LUKE SKYWALKER
that he
>flipped on his saber to kill his nephew because he foresaw him killing millions
WHILE IN THE SAME MOVIE
>refused to stop the Empire from killing billions
No. I don't buy it. It's bullshit that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Luke tried to kill Vader until he realized that it was wrong. Luke thought about killing Kylo until he realized it was wrong, too. Luke is also more arrogant because he is a celebrity because of his role in the Rebellion, something that the old generation of Jedi never had. Poe was really cool in this movie because he actually got developed, he is one of my favorite non-force user in the new trilogy.

It's a Disney shill senpai, they won't argue in good faith. They won't even acknowledge that you have to trust Luke, who has every reason to lie to Rey as Kylo does, about this scene. It's Rashomon, but they just assume Luke is the truthful one.

Because radical fanboys are upset that it didn’t confirm their unfounded fan theories.

>entire plot centers on stopping a single ship from being able to track their movements for a six minute window
>this fails
>everyone dies
>main villain killed leaving a faceless Nazi horde and a whiny emo with no motivation to contend with
>no major twist or cliffhanger or plot reveal to build interest in the finale

The paid Disney shills report their findings. Disney needs to know that the cages are rattled worse than they expected and that Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy are disasters for their multi-billion dollar IP. Sure, it'll make a billion -- but it could have made 3 billion.

It got the character of Luke Skywalker completely wrong. His motivation for attempting to kill Ben was unbelievable.

Plot lines, like trying to shut down the main ship's tracker, fail miserably and just add half an hour to the running time. Everyone fails at their task and it would be laughable if it wasn't pathetic.

Questions brought up from TFA, like Snoke's and Rey's origin, are brushed away.

Benicio Del Toro's strange character should have been Lando, but that's just my opinion. Though he definitely wouldn't legit betray Finn and Rose like that.

Luke dying was a major disappointment and should have been cut out after Carrie dying, but at least they can't fuck his character up any longer (provided he doesn't do stupid shit as a force ghost).

Unnecessary creatures on Luke's island that don't do anything, but add to the running time. We did not need to see Luke milking some titty dinosaur and drinking it while he gave Rey the bedroom eyes.

Using lightspeed as a suicide weapon pretty much fucks with every single problem in the Star Wars universe.

That being said, I still found it entertaining. The dogfight, outside of the prank call distraction, was enjoyable until you see the stupidly slow bombers that get fucked up in minutes. Rey's training and temptation by the dark side kept me engaged. Her scenes with Kylo Ren were a highlight of the film, even if they had no reason to be apart once Snoke and his Guards were dead. Luke's Force projection was pretty dope. I'm not going to go see it again and I'll be pretty patient to buy it if I decide to buy it.

Lol. That is most likely true for some people! This thread is showing me that some people have other opinions, too. This is a good learning experience for me.

because the themes make it seem like it had to pass the communist film bureau for publication

>the past doesn't matter
>all jedi are equal, some are just more equal than others
>don't have any strong opinions, stay on the fence
>capitalism is evil
>blind faith in your leaders
>traditions are worth nothing
>nothing you accomplish in life will matter

a pile of dogshit, but I guess it's not to surprising that the "critics" love it. i'm still not sure how to read the scene where finn and rose save the fucking animals but leave the child slaves.

Here you go:

youtube.com/watch?v=cL5oCP0VIEI
youtube.com/watch?v=tNoMQSvNAWE
youtube.com/watch?v=R0QPCS4a84k

1. Lazy writing. Dealing sensibly with characters, the world, and events in the other films was too hard for Rian. So he decided he would pretty much ignore them. This laziness is being called “subversive” and “bold” instead of what it really is: failure.

Snoke wasn't main villain, the main villain is Kylo. Kylo killing Snoke was one the best twists of the movie. I was afraid that Kylo was turning to light, but he luckily wasn't. Kylo has never been trusted by anyone, his parents sent him to Luke out of fear, Luke THOUGHT about killing him out of fear, and Snoke verbally and physically mistreated Kylo because he didn't trust him with big tasks. Rey was the person who trusted Kylo, but she was just using him. Rey wanted Kylo to work for the Resistance just as Snoke wanted Kylo for the First Order. The first thing Rey did when she found that Kylo wasn't joining her was try to pull Anakin's lightsaber. Kylo wanted to get rid of the old establishments because of how they wronged him in the past, so needs to kill the past. Kylo wants a new start but he needs to destroy the old stuff, first. When Rey ran away from Kylo, all he had left with him was the First Order. This movie made Kylo Ren one of my favorite dark side users.

2. Unnecessary new characters. Aackbar or Leia should have had all of Holdo’s scenes. Rose should not have existed. All they did was bloat and confuse the narrative. A good story is a simple story, not 5 half-assed character arcs jammed into 2.5hrs.

I hope Kylo gets the bitch at the end

kys furry

He did know the script.
Before TFA came out =/= before TFA was written.
He just based it on TFA script rather than on YT Snoke theories.

3. Character assassination of Luke and Rey. It’s obvious how badly Luke was miswritten. But Rey also got shafted. Did she start from the bottom and work her way up to earn her successes? No. That is not feminism—it is just shitty writing. Both Luke and Rey were destroyed in service to Rian’s boner for the most pathetic loser of all time Kylo. News flash, Rian and other faggots: most people (old and young) hate Kylo and like Luke and Rey. You backed the wrong horse there.

Yeah TFA was dogsiht and destroyed the whole star wars universe but muh Johnson

Your right, they did leave the child slaves! How did I not notice, you have a good eye! I thought this movie wasn't very political because most of the stuff you post was from characters in the wrong (Ex: Kylo Ren, DJ,) It never said capitalism is evil and it never says some of other stuff up their, too. It seems like someone is looking for something to hate. But the child slave thing is an actual problem.

>call other people shills rather than actually address their arguments
>claim other people "won't argue in good faith", while you refuse to argue in good faith
Ironic.

Most of the movie was about subplot that were LITERALLY pointless, boring, starring shitty new characters and old characters no one cares about.

4. Cray cray ghost Yoda using the Force to burn a tree of books. Lol, this is your idea of “masterful story?”

Theres a reason everybody liked the Rey kylo stuff and hated the rest, the rest is heavily politicized

Now fuck off.

>Luke tried to kill Vader

You're gonna keep pushing that lie, huh?

This post was made by a cross between a human and an ostrich. Instead of burying its head in the sand, however, it buries its head up his ass.

Kyle has no motivation

Sidious turned dark for raw power and domination

Anakin turned Vader because he saw the dark side as a means to an end. To save the ones he loved

Kylo turned dark because....why?
Now that snoke is dead kylo will lead the first order...why? He has shown no interest in ruling the galaxy

5. Treating Finn like a loser. His nemesis Phasma was not built up as an antagonist for him to overcome. His first scene made him look stupid—he just falls off a medical bed and walks out of the infirmary spurting fluids unnoticed? Lol, “brilliant” and “subversive.” He was given no character development at all.

>mfw Sup Forums is reduced to parroting millennial normie memes
RIP.

POSITIVES
>far and away the most space-based star wars
>resistance plot is speed in space and pulls it off well
>despite being a woman with purple hair, holdo is a captivating character with plenty of shades of grey
>prequel trilogy actually gets some love in the canto bight sequence calling back phantom menace's tatooine act
>rey shows weaknesses and faults (actually fleshing out her character)
>kylo shows strengths and doubts about allegiences (actually fleshing out his character)
>luke has failed and this actually effects his plot unlike some superhero who is heroic for the sake of being heroic
>fucking puppet yoda
>the suicide run was straight out of my animes
>snoke was a chump and the twist that he really wasn't that important felt good since trying to make him even more evil than sidious would have just been embarrassing
>luke vs kylo
>fuck you, porgs are adorable, didn't effect the plot like ewoks, and were kept mostly in the background
>papabacca
>hoth's placement always bothered me by making the rest of the movie sort of anticlimactic, action-wise; krait at the end was a fitting 'final stand'
>the 'true' story of luke searching kylo, becoming horrified, and then resisting the dark side fits perfectly with his character and actually bridges the OT and ST unlike Han and Leia
>johnson (who i don't care for) actually broke the boring abrams/spielberg/cameron mold and inserted a good amount of panache in the direction

NEGATIVES
>finn and rose didn't do much to endear me to them
>luke's exit wasn't quite as centerplaced as I would have hoped

Overall, 7/10. 3rd best SW after ANH and ESB. It seems normies hated it because it made TFA pointless, which was good in my book because TFA was a pointless movie to begin with.

>Kylo turned dark because....why?

Of course, not what Luke is dead I have no idea what his motivation could be.

>I don't like the idea of people saying it is "liberal propaganda".

It is, just in case you somehow missed every white male and rich person being evil and all the gratuitous womyn power/animal rights shit.

>Some people also are saying that is worse than the prequels.

It is. Flawed as they may be, the prequels had a story to tell, original ideas, and characters.

>It breaks my heart knowing that lots of people worked hard on this movie

What are you talking about? The script is a jumbled mess and half the actors are walking through it. Are you sympathetic for the technical people who did a good job? They're not the ones getting profit from it succeeding, they got paid already.

>help the Star Wars franchise out

They don't need your help, they are billionaires. They just bought 20th Century Fox. Disney is doing fine.

Disney shills btfo

meant for

Luke is characterized fine in this movie, what would you do if you had a small Hitler sleeping in a hut next door. You would at least think about killing him, just as Luke THOUGHT about killing Kylo. Rey's power is explained to us by Snoke, but we should have spent more time with her to see her train instead of Canto Bight.

>flaws that sometimes don't exist
maybe yu are right, because the movie only has one flaw. It exists.

>not 5 half-assed character arcs jammed into 2.5hrs.
Tarantino's SW when ?

Kylo was attacked by his uncle and Jedi Master without really knowing why, was abandoned by his parents, and is just trying to live up to his impression of his grandfather. He doesn't really understand the difference between good and evil and is trying to figure it out himself.

Kylo is the only complex new character in this whole thing.

>Kylo kills his father
>Snoke says this got him weaker because he's conflicted
????
Wasn't the whole point of the Dark Side that it gets stronger the more they are emotionally conflicted with regret, sorrow,anger,etc?

>doesn’t know why
>had been cybering with snoke for months showing him his boipussy via force Skype

i watched it, and i really want to cry, not jocking (like everything in TLJ), when he said TLJ has destroyed Sw for ever.

This honestly
There were some scenes that were shitty but it was a decent movie overall
People are acting like it’s worse than a 1h 30m video of flies on a rotting carcass

>nitpicking real-world science in a film series where combat is primarily utilized through fixed-length laser swords and squid people pilot FTL metal ships
The absolute state of Sup Forums right now.

>Luke is characterized fine in this movie
Even Hamill says your full of shit.

>you had a small Hitler sleeping in a hut next door.
Nothing because he hasn't actually done anythintg, you faggot. There's no guarantee he'll become evil. "ALWAYS IN MOTION THE FUTURE IS".

> finn and rose save the fucking animals but leave the child slaves.

Ultimate result, animals put down and killed, child slaves severely beaten and possibly killed for helping release the animals, great work, 'heroes'

>I only see a couple of problems
literal pleb lmfao

Great, that's like five of the points. Care to address the others?

That's actually a really good point, actually. I still think it is justified but I understand your point of view.

No. Anakin was weaker at the end of RotS too, which is why Obi-Wan beat him. Sith need to be focused and have no self-doubts. Like, do you think Sheev ever felt any regret or sorrow? No, he enjoyed being an asshole.

Why bother reading the rest when the first post literally invalidates any of their other arguments?

Oh so you have no argument. Got it.

Story is an utter fucking mess that seems to actively try to ruin the trilogy by killing off everybody important before anything can actually happen. Half the shit that happens doesn't make sense and the other half affected nothing.

The biggest hero in the franchise, Luke Skywalker, gets to do nothing and dies like a bitch.

Rey is an obnoxious character and I wish she died.

Only good thing about the movie is that it's visually pretty and you don't get points for that in 2017, being visually pretty is fucking required these days. You don't get credit for meeting the minimum requirement for your budget.

TLJ is such a bad movie that I honestly wonder how could they possibly have a sequel after this. I see no way for them to write a good movie with the few characters they have left.

You gotta stop redditspacing my man

Why did Anakin got stronger after Padme died then, if his resolve got shattered in the same way Kylo did?

>TLJ is such a bad movie that I honestly wonder how could they possibly have a sequel after this. I see no way for them to write a good movie with the few characters they have left.

I do.

But seriously, there is no doubt in my mind JJ is gonna retcon Snoke's death and Rey's parents.

I wish that gave Phasma more time, too. She was so cool in the scenes she was in but she was there for 5 minutes. Finn had a character arc, he wasn't very happy about being with the Resistance in the beginning and eventually came to terms with it when he called himself "rebel scum".

He focused on his hate for Obi-Wan, the Jedi and most of all himself.

He never really got stronger though, just more skilled. According to Lucas, Anakin had the potential to be twice as powerful as Sidious, but as Vader he's only about 80% of Sheev's power level.

I couldn't agree with you more, friend. Do you have a social media, you seem like a guy who cares about Star Wars.

6. Animals gazing mournfully into the camera. I love animals, but that was just so forced and awkward. It was clearly designed for one purpose: to manipulate audience emotions. It failed. Just like all the poorly placed “jokes.”

How much they pay you for this gig? I could use some side cash.

>luke tries to murder his nephew
Jesus Christ not this again. Luke never made the attempt, he was overcome by fear and considered it for a brief moment as darkness overtook him, but he stopped himself.

Kylo's version of the flashback has Luke attempting to murder him, but in Lukes version he shouts "no" and tries to explain himself and Ben swings first.

> he was overcome by fear

Literally the first thing Jedi are taught is how to control their fear. Luke was already on top of his in ESB.

Yeah but you're assuming whoever was in charge of the movie watched ESB

>if you enjoyed the last jedi, you do not care about star wars
give me a fucking break, dude. tlj was the best thing to happen to star wars since the original trilogy because it actually opened things up to be new and interesting. all the other movies released since the OT have just been lore masturbation. if you like them, you don't like star wars.

the people who think TLJ no longer has a moral, optimistic centre are mental infants who can't conceive of the broader sweep of the new trilogy. shit is exactly the same as in the original trilogy. first movie was about a bunch of friends coming together and identifying the goal. second movie is about realising it's harder to reach that goal than they thought, and losing some people along the way. third movie is triumph and speculation about the future. it shouldn't be hard to understand. and even if luke didn't behave the way your headcanon wanted him to, he got his redemption. what the fuck is the issue?

TLJ played with our expectations of the characters, the relationships between them and the metaphysics. none of the other movies since the OT have been remotely interesting in this regard and it is exactly what the series needs, it's the whole point. stop whining about the lore changing because if it's static it sucks ass. this is a fantasy movie series, not a catechism.

I genuinely believe TLJ will come to be one of the highest regarded SW movies as the years pass. I think you fucks are all traumatised by your expectations and the years of video games and shit movies which have petrified the franchise. i am genuinely excited by the direction the series is going in now. that's how it felt for people who saw the OT the first time. that's the magic

He is “complex” at the cost of ruining every single other character he interacts with: Han, Luke, Rey, Hux, Snoke.

>Literally the first thing Jedi are taught is how to control their fear. Luke was already on top of his in ESB.
Luke failed the test in the cave when he had to confront his own fears and then abandoned his training and fled to cloud city. Yoda told him he wasn't ready, and it turns out Yoda was right.

No, Vader was conflicted and that left light in him. Regret isn't a dark side emotion, dark side users do what they think is good for themselves with no regrets.

>Luke is characterized fine in this movie, what would you do if you had a small Hitler sleeping in a hut next door. You'd totally murder him, right? RIGHT!?!?!?
No. I'm not an emotionally-unstable liberal

Agreed

>Obi-Wan has taught you well. You have controlled your fear.
t. Darth Vader

Now go fuck yourself, shill.

>lmao subverting expectations bro, so deep man
kys fag

>liberal propaganda
I actually see more people listing actual reasons of why it is bad than saying that, where are you reading this?

Has a shill ever been this blown the fuck out? Holy shit.

*tips force fedora*

You're right about how Luke should have thought about it more. Mark says one thing and the internet says he hated the TLJ. Luke didn't try to kill Kylo, he thought about it. I would have thought about it, too.

Vader was fucking with him and trying to lure Luke to the darkside. Yoda himself said that fear is the path to the dark side, and Anakin's own fall was caused over his fear of losing Padme. You cannot really trust what vader was saying during those fights.

disney shills on suicide watch

>I would have thought about it, too.

That's why you wouldn't be a Jedi Knight, faggot.

>Luke: I won't fail you. I'm not afraid.
>Yoda: You will be. You... will... be.

Luke died on his accord like Yoda. That's the opposite of going out like a bitch. Luke literally saved the Resistance from destruction.

Yes, why the audience score dropped bellowe AotC and the Monday drop off numbers came out.

The full line is
>Obi-Wan has taught you well. You have controlled your fear. Now release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me!

So no, he wasn't lying about it. If Luke was afraid he'd tell him to give into it, but Luke's only emotion was anger towards the man, who he thought murdered his father.

Thank you for spreading the truth, friend.

Clearly Yoda wrong since Vader didn't sense fear from him.

>Luke literally saved the Resistance from destruction.

"Saved" 10 people. Wow totally worth it. They woyld have all died anyway if MaRey Sue wasn't there to lift those rocks.

You are very right, dude.

subverting expectations is what makes a story interesting. 'deep' is your word, i don't go to star wars for 'depth'

>Your right
Ok fucking Hell Disney hire some better shills
And secondly everything in that user’s post is true. All of that shit was done to be “edgy and subversive” and all it does it subvert any chance of the movie being good.