Ok but seriously. Why is Superman considered the most powerful or the greatest defender of Earth...

Ok but seriously. Why is Superman considered the most powerful or the greatest defender of Earth, when she has consistently had better showings in combat than him, and has shown to be his superior when they fight? Why is DC cool with having Wonder Woman kick Superman's ass, but are afraid to say she is actually the best? Based on what we've seen, it makes no sense for the heroes to turn to Superman when a really powerful threat arrives.

It looks like she just punched him with her tit.

>Why is Superman considered the most powerful or the greatest defender of Earth
The Hell are you talking about, OP? Everyone knows Batman is the greatest.

Can Wonder Woman move planets? No. Her advantage is being a better fighter. That's it. Superman is a flying indestructible swiss army brick that flies at the speed of sound.

Superman is objectively the 4th most powerful member of the league, below Wonder Woman, Flash and Martian Manhunter. All three would definitely win if they fought one on one with Supes. Why he is considered, even in universe, to be Earth's most powerful hero, is probably because DC execs don't want to let go of the past maybe? I really don't know, it is a question that should be raised. It's weird to see DC Comics in and out of universe, say he's at the top of the food chain, when any knowledgable comic book fan knows half of the league on their own can kill him.

>Superman is a flying indestructible swiss army brick that flies at the speed of sound.

Yet she has mostly come out on top in their fights, so none of that means anything.

Who would NEVER BTFO of any of his male super-hero friends. Let alone a woman.

I truly don't think, written correctly, wondy could stand up to Curry, Jordan or Barry. She could knock cyborg the fuck out. Unless she likes the BBMETALC

Never when Superman was actually trying to kill her. But that's irrelevant. Let's look at 3 different disasters:

>Aliens have come and are trying to bombard earth with their spaceships
>Genetically engineered invisible strongmen are robbing banks in every major city simultaneously
>An ancient evil has awoken in the sea and is coming to devour the east coast
The only heroes who could deal with all of those problems are Superman and maybe Martian Manhunter (because the robbers are in several cities at once and he has no superspeed). The reason Superman is the strongest is because he's great at FUCKING EVERYTHING and nigh indestructible, not because of any 1on1 fighting prowess.

Only because of shitty writing and using Superman as a fucking jobber to prove strength or how scary a situation is.

Superman, actually fighting, massacres anyone you named. It gets really fucking annoying seeing people say stupid shit like this. The dude brute forced Myx's bullshit less than a month ago.

Maybe silver age supes was shitty writing as well but the dude could kill your favorite hero by accident. And I'm sick of people comparing OP versions of their favorite characters with depowered or atrociously written superman iterations to prove how shitty superman is and how awesome "so and so" is.

Superman is THE superhero for a reason.

Even in the DCEU, Superman spends his time getting knocked around by Doomsday, while Wonder Woman is doing WAY better, and is having a fun time doing it. Even normies will soon learn that Supes is a fucking chump.

I love Wonder Woman, but Zack Snyder should be fucking shot for that. Having Doomsday in the film, and Wonder Woman being the one to do most of the work is so asinine. Imagine if vise versa happened. Ares shows up in a Wonder Woman movie, and it's Superman doing most of the work while Wonder Woman keeps getting tossed around. People would lose their shit.

It's almost as if writers overcompensating to not upset feminists.

what fucking movie did you people watch?

Superman drags that asshole to fucking space, after taking two massive bong hits of Kryptonite Kush, flack jackets a fucking nuclear bomb because he wants to make sure it connects, comes back kicks some ass without so much as taking a scratch, while wondy gets knocked around, saves his chick, drops the s-curl, grabs a massive rock of his main weakness and plunges that shit into doomdsays chest.

Wondy saved bruce, got punched & smiled and then held Doomsday with the LoT. That's it.

Superman did all of the fucking work. After inhaling kryptonite. twice.

>Based on what we've seen
I'm guessing you've only seen a bunch of tumblr posts and instagram "facts"

The problem is, when Wonder Woman shows up, it becomes the Wonder Woman show, and she completely steals Superman's thunder. Almost everything Supes did beforehand doesn't matter because DD only got stronger.

>Why is Superman considered the most powerful or the greatest defender of Earth, when she has consistently had better showings in combat than him
Not really. Honestly when every they fight something, she's usually goes down first. Like when the Imperiex probe blew. Kal gets a slight ringing in his ear, Diana's for death's fucking door. She's only on Superman's level when she's fighting Superman, because that's the narrative writers sometimes like to push, but when you look at the shit that happen in her books v his, she really doesn't compare in the slightest honestly.

I'm sorry, who killed Doomsday? Superman.

And who created the fucking weapon that killed Superman? Wondy.

If Diana wouldn't have given the asshole a dagger to kill Superman with by callously cutting his arm off as if that was more powerful than a bomb we'd be seeking Superman's monument with him still here.

She didn't steal the show so much as aided in Superman's death.

>Why is Superman considered the most powerful or the greatest defender of Earth, when she has consistently had better showings in combat than him

Superman is objectively the most powerful, in terms of his... well, powers. He's not the absolute physically strongest, he's not the absolute fastest, he's not the smartest, but he's very high in all of those aspects, a jack of all trades.

Most of Wonder Woman's powers that Superman doesn't have are ones that are more suited for purposes outside of combat or for diplomacy. She's got the lasso, she's got natural proficiency with language, she can communicate with animals and nature, and so on

I suppose she's a better fighter and thus would win in a fight, but that's not what "most powerful" actually means.

Also most people who aren't writing her solo seem to be somehow unable to spend thirty minutes reading like three issues of Wonder Woman to see what her actual powers are. And thus you get retards saying "her powers were never consistent!" when, no, they actually have been as consistent as Superman's post-Crisis.

That's a given in these threads.

Superman only needs a single song and you are erased from the Multiverse. Like it or not, in case of cosmic death or the impossible, you fucking call Superman.

I'm waiting for someone to post the Mongul fight from For The Man Whop Has Everything.

Wondy usually has some kind of magical weapons which can get through Superman's invulnerability. If you put a middle weight boxer up against a super heavy weight boxer but give the middle guy a knife he'll win more often than not.

>but are afraid to say she is actually the best
because she's not. Wonder Woman is the best martial artist, but Superman is far more powerful than her and has better feats all around like tanking Mageddon's anti-sun energies that could vaporize half the galaxy.

anyway, this is bait is it? seems too retarded to be actually serious.

Superman's DC mascot and as such is always touted as the company's most powerful, important and beloved hero in the world. Sometimes he's the most handsome too, although that title usually go to Hal Jordan.

Wonder Woman has never won a fight against Superman, despite DC trying to show them as "equals" to justify their romantic pairing. She's always shown struggling against his superior might while trying to devise a way to restore him to the GREAT man he is. Typically these fights are mere excuse for relationship teasing and drama. An attempt to show Wonder Woman struggling to try to save the man she loves from himself.

And that's pretty much Wonder Woman's role in everything that has to do with Superman. Since she's the company's most iconic female hero she's used to help elevate and remind people of Superman's status as THE MAN. She'll always be second bananas to him and every story they share together will be always to showcase his qualities as a character, sometimes even to her detriment.

Just deal with it.

>Wonder Woman is the best martial artist

TOP KEK. She isn't. Batman's usually shown as holding that title schooling WW on different martial arts unknown to the amazons or helping train Superman so that he can better defend himself when in a jam.

he uses weapon though

he too stupid to sue weapons though

>Martian Manhunter has no superspeed

This is how you can tell you know fuck all about MM

>Based on what we've seen, it makes no sense for the heroes to turn to Superman when a really powerful threat arrives.

They actually turn to Batman, so that Batman can devise a plan that his buddy Superman can enact to perfection. The other heroes just stand around like fools or running like headless chickens.

That's pretty much every JL or big event arc ever in the past decade.

They constantly job batman saying a bunch of faggots are better martial artists than him. All strength/power accounted, if I'm the writer, nobody in a bat book is better fighter than Bruce. Maybe Nightwing aged Dick. That orphan slut can swallow a bullet and her mom can swallow bat's dick.

>Wonder Woman has never won a fight against Superman
Superman's never "won" a fight against any superhero.

The Batman works like a Russian doll in a way. When the Batfamily are together they sap his force. With every added member Batman gets weaker and dumber. But when Batman is alone? He's the best one there is.

Hal might have the best weapon in the universe on his finger, and even the most sheer willpower to power it, but he's a fucking goober. Never forget that. Hal going down like a chump early on in a fight isn't so much jobbing as him being written accurately. Wondy could thrash him because she can fight smart.

I remember when Gail Simone was writing Wonder Woman, she took a lot of heat when she answered some Q&A question like this.

She said Superman was definitely stronger than Diana, but Diana was clearly the better fighter.

That time when Maxwell Lord took over Superman's mind was a good example of a Wonder Woman vs. Superman fight. Superman can lay a lot of pain on her, but when Wonder Woman stops fucking around she can put a TKO on Supes pretty fast.

Wouldn't Supes be against Trump since Trump wants to get rid of illegal aliens?

Superman always come close to push her shit in really goo.

Frankly I don't care if Bruce is portrayed as the best martial artist or not, what I care about is him being the worlds greatest detective.

That title actually belongs to Captain Atom. Both Superman and Wonder Woman are small time. Captain Atom can't be killed and is capable of killing a universe.

Everyone on the JL is a jobber next to Superman and Batman. Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Cyborg. You name it.

MM isnt in the justice league

That fight ended with WW snapping Lord's neck because she couldn't win against Superman and didn't wanted to see her friend lose himself because he's too important to her and the world.

Which is how pretty much every fight between ends.

Fun Fact: Byrne had baby Clark arrive to earth in an artificial rocket womb so he could be "born" on Earth.

I can't even imagine the level of autism required to care that much about a fictional character's citizenship.

Imagine if flash didn't job.

Superman is stronger though.

He has much better feats. And he'd never fight a woman st full power.

Superman sap Flash's Speed Force. The Flash always get slower when close to Superman. STARlabs should research that up.

Just because he isn't right now doesn't mean he isn't classified as a leaguer.

Firestorm is a leaguer. Hal is a leaguer. Ray Palmer is a leaguer, as is Plastic Man and Red Tornado, doesn't matter that they aren't on the main roster right now.

You're leaving out some shit, friend. She also knocked out his hearing and chipped away at his joints. She also cut his neck open with her tiara. The whole reason she was able to talk to Lord was because Superman was so fucked up.

>And who created the fucking weapon that killed Superman?
Batman and Lex Luthor but that's beside the point.

That's superman's jobberfield power. Only works on allies.

I'm conflicted. One part of my autism agrees with you, the other is going "NOT IN THE LEAGUE REEEEEEEE"

Absolutely true. But constantly hearing idiots (including the writers) say Cass is a better fighter is particularly angering. She's a little unpowered girl. You wouldn't need a detective to figure who wins that one.

>but when Wonder Woman stops fucking around she can put a TKO on Supes pretty fast.

That's pure horse shit user. How can you really believe this? You not only think she can win, but quicky? It's literally the opposite.

Like I said above compare to silver age supes because I'm not letting these comparisons with an OP Diana or anyone else. In the last 50 years they all caught up to him due to jobbing.

Written correctly it's not just incorrect it's absurd to insinuate she would even stand a chance.

These fuckers are crazy. The only reason we've so many fights between Superman and Wonder Woman is because of relationship tease and drama.

The fight after 'Our Worlds At War' cross-over arc in Wonder Woman's solo book where Circe transformed Superman into a Doomsday-like creature. The whole fight you've Wonder Woman struggling against Superman while begging him to come to senses because she and everyone in the world loves. Ends with Superman crying on her arms once restored. Oh, so sad!

The fight Infinite Crisis-tie in cross-over arc "Sacrifice" where Max Lord mind-controlled Superman. The whole fight you've Wonder Woman struggling against Wonder Woman until she decide to finally off Lord because she and the world can't lose Superman to Lord's madness. Ends with Superman shocked and disappointed by what she had done. Oh, the drama!

The fight in the Injustice: Gods Among us tie-in comic where Batman through his keikaku made the Olympian gods force Wonder Woman to fight Superman to the death in order for Hippolyta to live. The whole fight you've Superman not fighting with his all because he lost his will after Lois' fight and Wonder Woman hurting being forced to kill the man she loves for her mother because of the heartless Batman. Ends with everyone and Batman discovering he was keikaku'd by Ares. Oh, the angst!

It's always about throwing Wonder Woman a momentary bone so she can prove her love for Superman with her struggle and sacrifice.

Name once, I'll wait.

>speed of sound
Try faster than light.

This is pure stupidity. Let me know when Diana or J'onn phases one planet through another. See Doomsday ignored her for most of the fight, when he actually tried to hit her, he was clobbering her.

>Sup Forums still not reading comics
Wonder Woman got some shots in but was only barely surviving.

Let me know when Wonder Woman gets x-ray vision, heat vision, cold breath, a dozen new senses, can analyze DNA in the middle of a fight, outspeeds Zoom, and learns Flash's speed phasing trick, because Superman did. Know what else? Even if you want to set aside his killed-a-god's-soul super scream, that thing where he lobotomized Manchester Black by reflecting heat vision through his eyes? Superman can do that to anyone, at any time. And the only way to stop it, is to have a brain that can resist star-level heat, or have eyes that don't function. Because eyes reflecting light into your skull IS WHAT EYES DO, IT"S THEIR FUNCTION. That trick would work on literally anyone that has a sense of sight.

God of Light Hal Jordan can kick Superman's ass.

Incorrect. The weapon that killed Superman was Zod/Doomsday's arm growth after diana slice his hand off.

Sure lex created doomsday but not one that killed superman. Batman had nothing to do with it. He helped his bro get the kill shot by popping the ugly fuck with some of the kryptokush

>Using Silver age Supes as a comparison to ANYTHING
>Not "letting us" use present-day comparisons

Get bent. A big part of Supes is that compared to other League members, he's woefully under-trained in martial arts. Wonder Woman is a magically-blessed being to boot, so she can hurt him regularly.

You think Superman would have survived the impalement if he wasn't holding the Kryptonite spear?

Flash can also kick Superman's ass. but Flash loses to slipping on ice and banana peels and whatever else bullshit. He's basically a fucking idiot

...

Or if he wasn't weaken from his fight with Batman that Batman totally started.

The sun healed him and reenergized him.

But yeah, it's more Batman's fault than Wonder Woman's.

Get this, pal: Wonder Woman will always be second bananas to Superman. Don't let that "we're equals, kiss me" shit fool you. Wonder Woman's not and will never be more important than Superman according to DC.

She's good to fangirl over him or follow his orders. That's it. Or act like a bitch so he can look nice. And have super-sex and pump out his babies. Or make keep him company and do his house-shores in the far future. That's all.

She'll never be better than him in anything. She's not useful as a character not even to train his ass since Batman or Karate Kid usually receive that role.

J'onn without his fire weakness is legitimately unstoppable. Half the reason MM has such a blatant weakness is that without it his lineup of powers would allow him total domination.

actually debatable but if we're splitting hairs, again, that is not the weapon that killed superman. the bonedagger in his chest was. and that was a direct result of nobody except wonder woman.

Nothing you said is worth refuting. It's pure refuse. One legitimate punch from superman and diana never moves again.

Killer Frost can beat Superman, so how would Wonder Woman fare against her.

Diana isn't stronger. She's just the better fighter.

You're not even making arguments here; you're just being mad.

When she's not being a diplomat her whole fucking deal is fighting godly beings. I don't care if she's not as popular as Superman, that doesn't change that she's a better fighter than him, and with her abilities, that shit matters.

>Also most people who aren't writing her solo seem to be somehow unable to spend thirty minutes reading like three issues of Wonder Woman to see what her actual powers are. And thus you get retards saying "her powers were never consistent!" when, no, they actually have been as consistent as Superman's post-Crisis.
To be fair a LOT about Diana changes with her writers so it's not really unreasonable to think that the limits of her powers change as well.

For example, does she have that super saiyan mode still or did Rucka retcon that out too?

These threads are always so hilarious, just people arguing over how their favorites or comic book logic can defeat other people's favorites and comic book logic.

It all seems rather pointless to me given that whoever "wins" superhero fights matters exactly about as much as who wins pro wrestling matches and functions for exact same reasons as pro wrestling matches do.

Why not just enjoy the stories instead? They legitimately matter more then the meaningless outcomes of fights.

She's not a better fight when she can't survive a fight against him. DC will never show Wonder Woman actually beating Superman.

I'm just being real here. It's all a contest of popularity. You go Superman, because he's the company's face, then Batman, because he's the one bringing in the money, then Wonder Woman, because she's iconic and appeal to women and then all the other hobos. That's how it is.

Funny thing, that Super Saiyan mode was NOT a new invention, though it was so rarely referenced during Diana's Pre-Crisis days that one can be forgiven for thinking that it IS new.

>forgetting about this faggot

You're all wrong. Best Martial Artist is Karate Kid. He's mastered not just Earth's martial arts, but those of several alien planets, some of which haven't even been invented yet. He's the undisputed top of the ladder when it comes to martial artists in the DCU.

...Unless they've introduced some kind of psychopomp manifestation of martial arts.

Because superhero comics, when they function right, have continuity and internal logic to them. Yes, characters can job, but you can still extrapolate that the Penguin can't defeat Darkseid if you read the comics and know what they are about.

Look a female MMA fighter can be a better fighter than an NFL lineman. But the lineman will break her 100 percent of the time.

it's the same concept. Just with heat vision and fatal vocal chords. Martial artists love to believe size doesn't matter, and I guess with superheroes it shouldn't matter as much, but wake the fuck up dude. She doesn't have a fraction of his physical prowess and he has other powers he could use to permanently maim or kill her.

What argument are you making other than "she's trained." Yeah, so is bruce and he probably stands a better chance than wondy.

Not him but...none of that matters at all. I mean that's pretty self-evident by even being mildly familiar with comics.
There's no "Cause=Effect" in comics fights and victories, just Effects that are sometimes later justified with Causes, and that's a VERY seldom sometimes these days.

he used the Miracle Machine to do that

Karate Kid lost to Batman in a cross-over arc. It doesn't matter what the character's traits are. If you go against someone like Superman or Batman you're fucked.

>HE SAID IT
>BATMAN WINS AGAIN

Wonder Woman? Superman? Nigga please. Plastic Man could kick both their asses.

No, you are wrong. The best martial artist is Batman 1 Million.

Then they haven't functioned right since before you were born....unless you're like, sixty-something I guess.
Seriously; there is no internal logic.
I don't know how many comics you actually READ rather then just following one or two characters, but the inconsistencies and irregularities outnumber the hard rules of powers and who can beat who, and even those only apply with the exact same writer writing both instances.

I AM sorry user, but all the internal logic and justifications are written AFTER the stories are finished, usually in handbooks written years after the fact and not by actual comics writers.

Bringing up MMA women vs. football men to a superhero battle is retarded, even as an analogy.

No matter how you slice her origins, Diana is either a daughter of Zeus or a material creation of the gods. Either way, she's been blessed with godly abilities and weapons and has been training all her life in a martial society. Superman doesn't have an answer for this shit.

Superman DOES have an answer.
It's the exact same one John Cena has been using for years, and it's kind of really effective.

Which Karate Kid? There are several Karate Kids during the existence of the LoSH. And not all of them are equal. The one that was trapped in the present that Batman managed to "defeat", he was terminally ill, severely weakened and brainwashed. Even excluding those factors, Batman had help from Black Lightning and needed Black Lightning's intervention since Batman was getting his ass kicked.

Batman can defeat her, dude. None of that shit matters.

Plastic Man >>> SuperFag & WonderShemale

>I don't read comics
This is wrong. Superman is stronger and is the strongest of the league, surpassed only by Flash's speed.

Superman's defeats against WW are always circumstantial or even voluntary.

MM can contend in a fight with Supes, but the only one who has a chance of beating him is Cap Marvel.

WW is in a whole league below Superman.

>MM can contend in a fight with Supes, but the only one who has a chance of beating him is Cap Marvel.

You honestly believe this. Cute.

Read the fucking book, the miracle machine wasn't for that.

He literally just sang, he figured out the counter-frequency of Darkseid's ghost and sang a tune in it to cancel Darkseid's existence.

I think it's a perfect analogy and that you're retarded.

MM held off the entire JL with relative ease for a short period when they opened pandora's box IIRC?

And if you argue about Shazam then read a fucking comicbook.

>MM held off the entire JL with relative ease for a short period when they opened pandora's box IIRC?
Scratch that, I think it was when they met Shazam in Kahndaq?

Wouldn't the Spectre technically be Earth's most powerful? Unless he's too cosmic/divine to fit that category.

Superman and Batman are the head-honchos. They're a league of their own. The rest are inconsequential. That's why they'll always be shown as the best and able to defeat any other character named in this thread.

Sometimes DC throws a bone with Batman, showing other characters besting him, but that's because nothing can put a dent to his popularity. DC could release a book where all the DC's characters line up to spitroast him and said comic would lead the sale charts, received good critics and the future be in the publisher's top 10 catalog.

Superman, though, while being an icon and the the publisher's poster boy is like a fat woman that constantly gain and lose weight. So his ego got to be protected. That's why every now and then he gets a new facelift. That's why every time DC tries to throw a bone for other characters there's always some stipulation and a disclaimer placed to remind readers that he's still the king and all. Like say he was mind-controlled so didn't gave his all and the whole fight was to save him so he could save the day.

The exception to this, of course, is when it comes to Batman. When is Superman and Batman ducking it out Superman can get as dumb as a kid with down syndrome and as weak as a kid with cerebral palsy.

MM was beaten by fucking Zod in Superman/Wonder Woman. Superman also always win against Captain Marvel, be it through pure strength or cunning since Billy start to get naive and dumb the more he gets near Superman.

You need to read.

I said MM can contend against Supes, but he will lose, implying WW has no chance.

And Shazam is literally magic Superman from another earth, he can definitely win.

Can being the operative word. Never forget that.

Again, fucking learn to read and read the first post of mine you quoted.

You've been arguing with me because you can't read.

We agree you moron.

And Flash was beaten by Deathstroke, is called jobbing.

It seems like I'm constantly learning little tidbits about all the weird shit Byrne has done. Someone needs to make a list, or something.