Watching Phantom Menace for the first time in 10 years, whats the deal with the Trade Federation...

Watching Phantom Menace for the first time in 10 years, whats the deal with the Trade Federation, are they just goofy comic relief? Also PT thread

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because greedy alien bankers lmao

they had a bigger army than the republic and wanted to use them to pay less taxes
seems logical to me
they have lot of power but they are cowards on an individual level
aparently the neimodians have to eat their larvae siblings in the nest so they are all untrustworthy

>PT

Paper towel thread?

They're actually a modern day equivalent of classic commedia dell'arte that georg grew up watching, along with the classic Greek tragedy.. He's a visionary for drawing on such varied inspiration while also calling back to his roots. Brainlets just don't get how deep it is

Was the Prequels actually good?

They are underdeveloped sub-villains, made of a greedy merchants that wanted to use brute force to get better deals in the 1st one and decide to mutiny when shit goes south in the 2nd, though i always found it was strange for them to be called separatists considering their objective wasnt separate themselves from the galactic republic, but subjugate it and their planets.

They represent another threat to freedom besides a generic empire

The population of the CIS genuinely wanted to become an independent political entity.

So the entire point of their species is to overlook the trades between planets and also provide sanctions onto planets? What does the rank of "Nute" mean? Trade Federation still has representatives in the republic even though there is a large majority in the separatists (who also create the Battle droids in conjunction with the Techno union). Why?

Then why show them constantly in the offensive and attacking galactic planets instead of the opposite? Though if they really were JUST trying to separate themselves and the galactic republic responded with a war declaration things would have been more interesting.

Honestly all this talk just makes me mad about how PM is such an useless movie and instead we should have gotten a middle movie between AotC and RotS to properly set up the war.

I think Nute is his name.
>So the entire point of their species is to overlook the trades between planets and also provide sanctions onto planets?
Its not thei entire point, but it's probably a part given to them by the senate

>

His rank is Viceroy

But why was their entire army based on robots?

Ah, thank you. So, what's the rank about? He obviously has some power.
Cheap as fuck to make and deploy.

Attack of the Clones is such a weird movie because they don't really give us a reason to hate CIS.

>having a peaceful meeting to determine the recession from the republic
>enemy spies discovered
>decide to execute them
>suddenly the republic drops a fucking enormous army on you out of nowhere and obliterates the planet to punish you for wishing for autonomy

Because no Neumodian is brave enough to be a warrior.

Nute Gunnray is his name, his title is viceroy.

That one Clone Wars episode that shows off the Separatist government structure gave a new light off to them. They actually had a better process than the republic.

Space jews

Because the biggest backers/worlds of the CIS were associated with advanced droid manufacturing - so when these corporations and planets decided to leave, they used what they knew best: battledroids.

>What does the rank of "Nute" mean?
It's his name Nute Gunray, a not so subtle jab at "Nute" Gingrich, and Ronald "Ray-gun."
Not even memeing.
The trade federation pretty much just oversaw interstellar trade in the republic, maintaining trade lanes, hauling freight, brokering trade agreements, etc. There was still the black market, and independent traders and smugglers that you could always use to move goods, but if you had a major enterprise you basically had to suck trade federation dick to move it.
The republic taxes they were protesting was put on moving product through the trade routes, so it wasn't a cost incurred by Shipper/Receiver, but on the product in transit, which means the trade federation had to foot the bill. When they tried to hike up their rates to cover the cost, systems refused to pay and started using other methods of moving their product, so the federation blockaded naboo to set an example that if you didn't want to do business with the federation, they wouldn't let you do business with anyone else.
Sheev was the one who was pulling all the strings. He pushed the tax hike through the senate as Palpatine, and whispered poison into the ears of Nute and the others as Sideous. He made Naboo the target because he was from there, which would deflect suspicion, and he thought they could control Pandabear Amygdala.

See, this is interesting and could have been the base of the whole trilogy
>republic has rotten and became corrupt
>palpatine takes over, promising to "fix the republic"
>while that is happening dooku gets people to separate the republic, since is so fucking shitty
>plan is revealed by the jedis
>palpatine declares war on the separatists nation since they have the most funds (i'm assuming so, since they deal with tech)
All in one movie, the 2nd would start with separatists winning since the republic has no army and be the reveal of the clones, starting their comeback (like pottery, while ESB gets a dark end, this one would get lighter end) and finally RotS to tumble all down.

The biggest problem of the prequels (outside of lucas not knowing how to write dialogue or a coherent plot) is that they were not planned as a full trilogy but as individual movies, and now Nu-wars did the same fucking mistake. Just because it worked with the originals doesnt mean it will work again, having a pre-planned plot is most of the time much better.

Joke: "Sheev was so smart; being in control of both armies, he won either way!"

Woke: "Sheev was so smart! He rounded up all of the smart, politically minded, and ambitious people in the galaxy and had them all culled as part of his phony war"

TPM is severly underrated

>having a pre-planned plot is most of the time much better.
Depends on execution. Think of all the bad movies that were supposed to kick of a "cinematic universe" that failed because instead of trying to focus on being a good movie, it just tries to establish the sequels that will never come because you never gave the audience a reason to give a shit about.
Given Disney's success with the Marvel movies (like them or not, they make a shitload of money, and guarantee a steady revenue stream for the studio and the parent company) I'm surprised they didn't at least have a very broad-strokes outline for the movies, especially considering they announced their plans for the star wars franchise (12,000 movies over the next 20 years).
I don't know, I think both ways work just fine, as long as you've got the right people in the right places.

anakin should have been already an adult in tpm and the war starting at the end of it

The frame is there to be good. It's just poorly written and acted. I've thought ever since last Jedi that it fleshes out the world so much and the politics are actually a bit interesting.

Not just that, but look at who the separatist were. The trade federation, techno union, banking guild, and the bugs that had massive manufacturing capabilities. He made sure the opposition were the captains of industry so that in order to "win" the war for the republic they would be smashed into bits and absorbed into the newly minted Galactic Empire where, because of their former alliance, meant Sheev would have them right under his thumb.

>Just because it worked with the originals doesnt mean it will work again, having a pre-planned plot is most of the time much better.
The difference that makes it is that the new movies are trying to be BIG. They know Star Wars is the biggest series on the planet so they're trying to be epic sci-fi movies, while also being family fantasies, while also having involved character interactions and while also being steeped in drama. You can't write that on the fly. What can you write on the fly? A trilogy where an orphan gets wizard training so he can beat the evil wizard/

The Phantom Menace was the best film of the prequels. It had the best CGI, the best lightsaber duel, and the best acting. I know that last point isn't saying much, but still. Whatever was wrong with the plot and story, the same goes for the other two films of the prequels.

It was the last film before massive CGI fests too over

Palatine used the trade federation to create a conflict, Palatine wanted to show the current chancellor was weak, and planned to replace him. Having it done on his home planet of Naboo, he thought he would gain more support in replacing the Chancellor.

The trade federation is separate from the separatists. Palpatine is playing both of them.

The separatists try to kill Padme under Dooku-to really appease the trade federation. We never really understand Dooku's real motivations. The waste of Dooku is one of the biggest legitimate criticisms of the prequels.

The prequels have plenty wrong besides the terrible writing and dead acting, and whilst I think it's a terrible idea to expand your small space fantasy story about wizards with laser swords, the political drama/fall-from-grace tragedy concept didn't have to be as terrible as George made it.

I would have preferred Anakin and Obi Wan being side characters that the plot and action bumps into a few times over the course of the prequel.
The problem with focusing on them is that we already know how it all ends up, and the story told in the movies doesn't bring anything new to the table for the characters.
You never get the sense that Obi wan "failed" anakin, or that Anakin had a real fall from grace. He was an annoying little kid, and the next time we see him he's already a school shooter in the making. He wasn't seduced by the dark side, he just got tricked liked an idiot.
Just watch the clone wars cartoon where they manage to fit more character motivation and growth into a 30 minute show for kids than the prequels did across 6-8 hours

Only if tpm was massively restructured

I would say for them to make one or two filler movies like rogue one while they are getting their trilogy together, but i guess they tired to ride the SW hype wave of their recent purchase the fast they could and make it up later. Disney did a WB there, too fast for their own good.

Oh both can work, since why i said "most of the time". ANH was a solid movie on it's own so it was easy for the ties to just lace ESB and RotJ together. People keep saying they gave Rian Johnson too much freedom, but i think they give them too many demands and cliffhangers to tie together while also literally NO DIRECTION to where to go, the worst of both worlds (no planing and yet too much plans), so i can get him fucking up a little, but what he did was too much by making all of his twists "wow, it was fucking nothing" for no reason other than subterfuge.

Does anyone else believe the Qui-Gon character was unnecessary? As cool as that character was and is, Obi-Wan always referred to Yoda as his master in the original trilogy. With that in mind did we really need to see Anakin as a child? It's my opinion that the prequel trilogy should have focused on Obi-Wan as its primary protagonist and his young adult apprentice who both make their debuts in The Phantom Menace. Essentially the prequel trilogy begins with Obi-Wan and Anakin as the ages they appear in Attack of the Clones. Anakin's backstory can be filled in as the prequels progress.

Criticisms? Comments? Death threats?

you idiot, they're clearly derived from middle age nepalese cerimonial theatre, of which George is the maximum expert alive.

>The trade federation is separate from the separatists. Palpatine is playing both of them.
The trade federation was still playing innocent to the senate while they were funding the separatist out of the back door.

Cgi and acting apart I think the story is really goood.

Unironically prefer it over TFA and R1

Lucas was just a crotchety old man who was pissed about everybody buying Japanese cars instead of American classics.

>I would say for them to make one or two filler movies like rogue one while they are getting their trilogy together, but i guess they tired to ride the SW hype wave of their recent purchase the fast they could and make it up later. Disney did a WB there, too fast for their own good.
I think they also needed to make a new trilogy while the original cast was still around. Ford is like 6 plane crashes beyond the acceptable limit of plane crashes a human being should be in, and we know what happened with Carrie Fischer. So I think that also drove them to move when they did.
I agree though, in a perfect world I would have done a few smaller scale stand alone stories in the star wars universe, to warm up before making a new trilogy.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly with starting them off older but id try to hamfist qui gon in a relevant role as a jedi master on the council because i like him and wish there was more

Qui-gon is a good backstory character, but not a good character itself. He helps in a lot of characterization. If it was up to me to remake it, it would start as you said, with Anakin an young-adult and obi-wan as his master and the backstory for them would be

>in a random mission on tatooine qui-gon and i found a boy with extreme potential
>when we suggested to take him for training, both him and his mother accepted
>after dealing with the slave-trader and leaving the ship we were attacked by what seemed to be a sith (maul serving as a "bodyguard" of the forcebaby of sidious, like ben was there for luke, pottery, rhymes)
>We fight the sith and kill him but qui-gon dies in the process
>insert reason for obi-wan not being able to take qui-gon's and maul's stuff as evidence here, i guess endless pit or monster eating both bodies serves

Bam, backstory for how they met and why they are more like brothers than master-apprentice. And yes, the trilogy would have been better as a buddy (EMPHASIS on BUDDY, george, you friendless weirdo) cop with both anakin and obi-wan and qui-gon as that old partner that died by the villain's henchmen hand.

What is the species who designed the Destroyer droids? I doubt the Trade Federation designed them since the B1 is their design and Supers were part Techno Union.

Why take years to recruit, train and have to pay an army of sentient beings when you can create an entire battalion of combat droids preprogrammed how to kill and cost effective in a few weeks?

They´re supposed to represent Chink's attempt to gain hegemony.
They invade a long-time US outpost like Iraq or Afghanistan (Naboo) to get a reaction.
All this time though there is a person instructing them who is actually at the head of the government of the US (The Republic)
They end up creating an arms race that results in war.
Everybody loses except Sheev
I wonder who Sheev represents
Lucas was ahead of his time

So who really was Jedi Master Syfodius?

Maybe they should program them better. B1's were useless.
>Where are you taking them?
>To coruscant
>Coruscant... ok, wait no, that's not right.. uh, you're under arrest!

>Does anyone else believe the Qui-Gon character was unnecessary?
Underutilized to the point of being unnecessary. The whole former apprentice of Count Dooku, and his tendency to ignore the council and follow his own directive would be good setups to introduce some character conflict with Obi Wan. Have him torn between the man who taught his master, and his own apprentice, both being corrupted by the dark side on opposite sides of a sham war. Obi Wan being unable to choose might lead to some negligence or resentment towards Anakin that gave the opportunity for him to fully slide into the emperor's pocket.
But yeah, in the movies as they exist he seems like more of a plot device than a character.

We didn't really need to see Anakin as a child, but there were a handful of impactful events that happened around the time he was a child. Most of the scenes on Tatooine could be cut and not much would have changed, aside from losing all of the hype of podracing. Anakin going back to find his dying mother would be a bit jarring without any prior information, but I'm sure it could have been explained.

about to go through the prequels again right now

based george

The funny thing about the prequels is that they're not deep at all and yet so many people still dismiss obvious commentary and plot points as being "lazy", "mistakes" etc.

The people who claim not to get the prequels are either playing dumb or are genuinely fucking retarded. The Trade Federation are straightforward patsies of the Phantom Menace, who act as the visible antagonists to our heroes. Their designs incorporate elements from real world scaremongery (yellow-peril). They're hapless because - to our great surprise! - they're not the masterminds behind any of this.

Their motives are shallow. They're being used.

>le prequals were good

kys

Was there a republic army before the clones or were the species expected to provide their own military?

The battledroids trigger me on many levels. Which is a shame because I fucking loved their design in the hype leading up to episode I. Then you hear them talk.
What always bugged me is that if they're all networked to a central computer, why the fuck do they bother verbally communicating among themselves? If the jedi jump out behind a wall and kill 20 droids, EVERY FUCKING DROID ON THE PLANET SHOULD NOW BE AWARE THAT THERE ARE JEDI AROUND!
I get that you don't want them to be too threatening, but that doesn't mean you make them a farce. There's a middle ground.

>So the entire point of their species is to overlook the trades between planets and also provide sanctions onto planets?

A trade federation would simply be a group of trading entities banding together for mutual benefit in negotiations etc. That they're "The" trade federation implies that they're a pretty major commercial power in the Republic, and likely beyond.

There's no suggestion that they have absolute control over the entirety of galactic trade. They're resented as one of thousands of squabbling political bodies in the senate.

>Attack of the Clones is such a weird movie because they don't really give us a reason to hate CIS.

Are we supposed to? They're simply one side of a pointless war in which both sides are led by the same devious charmer.

>Was there a republic army before the clones
There was, but it was like 12 larping /k/ommandos in the reserves.
The republic cruiser they show up on at the beginning of the phantom menace is the republic navy. I think.

At least Supers seemed to be better until they were ruined in episode 3. Commando Droids in Clone Wars seem to be the closest to actual threatening droids.

theyre kino

Masterpieces compared to Disney Wars 7 and 8

>The separatists try to kill Padme under Dooku-to really appease the trade federation. We never really understand Dooku's real motivations. The waste of Dooku is one of the biggest legitimate criticisms of the prequels.

Dooku was a true believer who wanted to bring down the Republic. The difference between him and the other Separatists was that he knew Lord Sheev was on the inside pulling the strings. He was genuinely willing to reveal that information to sway Obi-Wan to his side.

He didn't realise that Sheev had no intention of letting the Separatists win, and that Dooku would be cast aside when a more powerful asset presented himself to Sheev.

Dooku is one of many visible threats that the Phantom Menace lurks behind until the plan is already well in motion; another patsy who doesn't realise he was being played.

>You never get the sense that Obi wan "failed" anakin, or that Anakin had a real fall from grace. He was an annoying little kid, and the next time we see him he's already a school shooter in the making. He wasn't seduced by the dark side, he just got tricked liked an idiot.

This is why Anakin's fall is good. It's not cool, it's not sexy. Anakin's a whiny fucking moron who lost everything.

Lucas loves to destroy cool villains. These guys shouldn't be your idols.

Boba Fett died like a bitch.

Prequels would've been better as books

just did. they're still shit.

>The clone wars
>battle droid is heard lamenting "WE'RE TERRIBLE AT THIS!" moments before getting killed by a jedi
>"It's not my fault, I'm programmed this way" is screamed by another as it misses a shot and is killed by a jedi moments later.
Commando Droid's were much better, I also like the IG-100's, Grevious's bodyguards in Revenge of the Sith. Too bad you never see them again despite apparently being a decent jedi deterrent.

>Padme, clean this droid as best you can

Anakin losing his idealised sage master and having to make do with an inexperienced Obi-Wan instead is significant to how he develops, as is Obi-Wan's resentment and frustration at having the burden pushed upon him (what is he going to deny his master's dying wish, even though he always disagreed with training the boy?)

Liam Neeson is good in the film. He's only "unnecessary" if you want to write a completely different story.

Droids in star wars are people and are alive even if they're powered by a central satellite.

Save the tactical robot realism complaints for you computer science class, nerd.

They seem to be Grievous' personal guards and I can't fault them for being that. I do like their Battlefront counterparts with rocket pistols.

They are tools of Palpatine to create inestability and take power over the Jedi, Lukas has a great idea on mind but fuck it up with jar jar and the silly dialogue

Normal soldiers have to be recruited/drafted, trained, armed, equipped, fed, and transported. Considerations have to be given for logistics such as food, water, morale, hygiene, fitness, and housing. All of this creates a complex and very expensive war machine. Clones are better, sure, but aside from faster recruiting and replacement rates they generally have the same issues as any other organic soldier.

Droids on the other hand simply need to be purchased and given maintenance and transportation, and even then you can just create droids to cover logistical needs as well as combat duties. Droids don't need to be housed, droids don't lose morale, droids don't need specialized gear to operate in hazardous environments, droids don't need years to produce in bulk. Purchasing and maintaining a droid army would be leagues cheaper than any organic army. To an entire nation of bankers and bean counters, that is all the reason in the world.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

>Trade federation
>Blocks trade

what?

>He didn't realise that Sheev had no intention of letting the Separatists win, and that Dooku would be cast aside when a more powerful asset presented himself to Sheev.
I think the novelization explains the sith plot better. The original plan had Dooku and Palpatine negotiate some kind of peace after throwing the trade union and all the other patsies under the bus, at the end of a bitter and prolonged war, and together they would propose the formation of a galactic empire with them in charge of it. Or something like that.

>republic has rotten and became corrupt
>palpatine takes over, promising to "fix the republic"
>Palpatine arrests a shit ton of popular politicians, including Dooku who is his apprentice at this point
>Dooku's imprisonment angers some of the jedi
>Dooku 'escapes' prison and leads the other arrested politicians to form the CIS framing it as self defense, taking some of the jedi with him
>Jedi Civil War part two where instead of order 66 it is just the jedi dying in warfare
>population gets progressively gaslighted about the jedi's existence as the war goes on and less jedi exist in order to explain why everyone forgets the jedi in the matter of 30-50 years

Sheev is obviously USA
USA always wins even when "lose"

Simple tactics of war
>Obtain power to block trade to your enemy
>Starve them of their resources "legally"
>Wait until the enemy is at the weakest point
>Invade and overthrow the enemy
>Move onto the next enemy

Checked.
Yeah, it's totally autistic nit picking, I don't deny that. But it's bugged the fuck out of me since I saw that movie opening day in the theater and I feel compelled to bitch about it in every conversation about the B1's.

The novelisations change a lot of stuff. A lot of people like Matthew Stover's clumsy justifications of things that are far simpler in the films, but for me he misses the point on way too much stuff (and his hero worship of Lucas' intentionally-flawed Obi-Wan is laughable).

but why they are called Trade Federation then?
wouldn't it be better if they could be just Neimodians?

It's a fantasy adventure, you really should relax.

Sheev is supposed to be the US specifically George W Bush. The republic represents the American people, and the CIS represent other countries star-crossed attempts at becoming the new world power (like you said China)

That's racist!

Because they have the power to legally block certain trade. They have the control over certain trades and are the republic's bean counters. The problem lies in the fact that when they say to block something, the republic has to follow unless someone brings up the trouble they are causing (Like what Padme does).

That's what the "legally" part means. If they weren't the masters of galactic trade, they wouldn't be able to make a blockade.

I like what it does with the Sheev/Yoda fight. Gives it a little more depth than yoda realizing "The Wheel" is on in 15 minutes and dipping the fuck out of there after they ran out of quarters for the CGI machine.

The republic is the USA and Sheev represents the potential for corruption at the heart of the democratic system.

>they don't really give us a reason to hate CIS.

Watch the Clone Wars and you see that the CIS are far more democratic and egalitarian than the Republic as well. Most of them are incredibly good willed left leaning social democrats that care deeply in their people along the lines of like Sanders/Corbyn.

Yoda flees when he realises that Sheev is literally throwing the weight of the senate at him and he's just an old man with a laser sword.

Nute Gunray is better developed character than Snoke

The way he had his arms wide open to accept Anakin was funny before he got sliced with the rest of the Separatist leaders.

The Republic can't step in because they don't have proof that an illegal blockade is even happening. They want to dispatch another committee to investigate.

The Trade Federation don't have the authority to blockade whoever they please. They certainly don't think they do, and ask the phantom menace if they should be doing it.

Bogging the problem down in bureaucracy is Sheev's intention, as it allows him to pursue election to the chancellorship.

I wish that planet was in the movies. Had a great asthetic.

>Commando Droids
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Harch

Why are the prequels so much more interesting than the nu-wars?

Colicoid Creation Nest

they literally were better as books. Revenge of the Sith's novelization is genuinely a well-written book. The author was given a broad strokes outline of the movie by Lucas and wrote it without even reading the script. The scenes play out in the same order and the basic story beats are the same, but the dialogue is actually good and character motivations work.

The B1s in Naboo were already at their prime:
>destroy the gungan army
>capture Padme and her bodyguards
>about to defeat the Naboo pilots
>single flaw of not protecting the main reactor inside the droid control ship fucks up entire battle
If they had only guarded the reactor OR if they had backup control ships like at the beginning, they would have been victorious and Padme would have been forced to release Gunray since Obi-Wan wouldn't have been able to do shit.
Even during the Geonosis battle, the droids were still doing fine since they had their older, simpler programming. But then:
>clone wars
>some moron decided that since clones have emotions and do pretty well in battle, droids should have them too
>program emotions/humor into droids
>droids now have squeakier voices, spout quips all the time, and run away screaming like retards whenever they're in a dangerous situation
They lost all the advantages of having a fucking robot army. If they wanted to make them independent of the control ships, why not keep their simple programming that makes them effective?

>>capture Padme and her bodyguards
Except that she escapes because one of them didn't fire on the jedi straight away despite having a singular mind.
>Captcha: Free Viceroy

A combination of Japs and British "empire"
Lucas should have gotten someone to help with these movies instead of writing and directing them himself . They had good ideas but were a mess

This. Just finished re-watching them and while 2 is obviously sub-par, they are still a million times more entertaining than any of that Disney shit.