To someone with as much formal training as he had, Zuko was kind of a little bitch. Katara with less than a year of training was at his level, Toph would stomp him undoubtedly and Aang bested him at every opportunity. Aang at the start of the series might be stronger than Zuko at the end.
Zuko practically only had an edge against nameless mooks. "Lucky to be born" indeed.
Nolan Sullivan
Zuko had average talent. That was the point. He trained hard to pass his sister who was a genius.
Christopher Reyes
He just needed that someone to give him positive motivation and balance out the anger in him.
Hunter Cooper
>He trained hard to pass his sister He probably died without accomplishing it.
Caleb Phillips
And he never managed to do that either. He had an edge on her in their final fight, only because she was completely unhinged.
Jeremiah Ross
Zuko himself said it best,
>She was born lucky
>I was lucky to be born
Andrew Gutierrez
Why did the art change so much in the second season? Why did they make zuko a twink in the last two season too? He was ripped in season 1
Asher Cruz
...anyone else think it was kinda hot when he knocked out Katara?
Daniel Diaz
Aang was the friggin' Avatar and Katara, Toph, and Azula were super prodigies who were all the strongest benders of their respective element of their generation. Zuko does well just to keep up with them at all.
Jason Ramirez
>Why did they make zuko a twink in the last two season too? He was ripped in season 1
the villain always gets nerfed when he joins your party
Jaxson Cook
>Zuko does well just to keep up with them at all. He should at least be more impressive than Mako, practically a self-taught homeless.
The guy is the fucking Fire Lord.
Leo Hernandez
I always explained it as Zuko having lost muscle mass while starving floating on a raft in the middle of the ocean with Iroh or struggling across the continent as a refugee. It's hard to maintain muscle mass, takes good eating, and he didn't have that for a long time so it makes sense to me he was thinner.
Jayden Lopez
I love the not so subtle jabs by the writers at talent versus hard work. Seems like someone on the writing team loved eugenics a bit too much.
I mean seriously that garbage with lol your grand-grandfather on your mother's side was the avatar, therefore you're good. Lol your grand-grandfather on your father's side was the fire lord, therefore you're evil.
And it wasn't handled in a "you can choose to be either good or evil". It was handled in "Zuko is naturally good, that's why he's so bad at being evil and that's why Azula is so good at it".
It would be funny if Azula inherited all that raw talent because of the avatar's genes, while Zuko inherited the shitty fire lord genes. Yet another contrast between Aang and Katara. Or Roku and Sozin.
Connor Cruz
Give me my satan quads!!!
Nolan Carter
I think Ozai pointed out the same thing. Zuko sucks at bending for his level of training/genetics. But he's a good kid deep down. Bit whiny, but decent. And decent at bending too, all said and done.
Camden Sanders
Lot of behavior is tied up in genetics tbf. Lots of talent is also in genetics (environment also matters, insofar as you need a certain amount of nutrition etc).
Josiah Ortiz
>while Zuko inherited the shitty fire lord genes. But both Iroh and Ozai were monsters. You can't put the blame on their side.
Jose Green
There's also the spiritual aspects of things.
They did show that about the twins, despite sharing the same genes only one of them had earth bending skills while the other did not.
Luis Thompson
And rub his face in her huge titties.
Camden Anderson
Could Lavabender Bolin take Fire Lord Zuko down?
That's kinda embarrassing.
Gavin Robinson
Zuko wasn't angry enough to be good fire bender.
Jonathan Johnson
Fire comes from the breath, kiddo.
Eli Green
His grandson has amazing talent, at least.
Christian Morales
They certainly did it better than that other show that was about mystic notninjas.
Dylan Hernandez
The power levels kind of skyrocketed in Korra.
Brayden Baker
He was able to match her in Southern Raiders
Ryder Sanchez
>He was ripped in season 1 He was ripped in season 3 too
Jason Lee
Mako was trained by Lightning Bolt Zolt of the Triple Threat Triads
Christian Mitchell
He spent like a whole season on the run practically starving.
Daniel Peterson
Katara was a prodigy Toph was a prodigy Aang was a prodigy
Zuko was average, but had one of the best teachers in the Fire Nation. And because of that, he could at least keep up.
Sebastian Williams
Zuko is the biggest jobber of the franchise, he'd find a way to lose.
Evan Harris
If anything it's the opposite since they had to do more subdued bending due to the mostly urban setting. Just compare the shit Toph did in The Earth King to any of Lin's fights.
It's just that bloodbending and lavabending are way too fucking OP.
Justin Thompson
He had no natural talent for the style of firebending that was dominant in his culture, which relied on drawing power from being a nasty piece of shit, and was basically trying to force a square peg into a round hole. He powered up a lot once he adopted a more appropriate philosophy towards life and by extension bending.
Daniel Rodriguez
A prostitute will give him sex, which is the same thing.
Aang was the avatar, not a prodigy. And Katara just had a proper master while 99% of the population didn't.
Julian Gutierrez
>And Katara just had a proper master while 99% of the population didn't. She quickly out performed all of the water bending students at the North Pole and became a Master herself
Isaiah Robinson
Zukos talent wasn't bad. He just wasn't made to use the fire nations method of anger. Once he went and learned from a dragon with Aang the true way to fire bend, he quickly caught back up and surpassed his sister.
Samuel Edwards
>Katara just had a proper master while 99% of the population didn't. Come on, she surpassed all of Pakku's experienced students with about two weeks of training and she defeated the person that discovered how to bloodbend by just watching her do it once.
It's clear that Katara is meant to be really good.
Hunter Hughes
Aang was a prodigy airbender even accounting for being an Avatar. He became the youngest airbending master in history.
Cooper Flores
>She quickly out performed all of the water bending students at the North Pole most of them were kids
>became a Master herself Debatable. She is very clearly not at the level of a master, even by the end of the show. It is unlikely she could defeat her teacher, for example, or any other master class bender. It highly depends on what you call "master". They say very often that Aang 'mastered all elements', however by the end of the show they recognize Aang is not so good at earthbending and firebending. Being a 'master' might as well just mean 'able to control the elements'.
Liam Turner
>Aang was the avatar, not a prodigy Be was the Avatar AND a prodigy.
He became the youngest person to have ever mastered all airbending moves so fast and then he added his own move to its catalog.
Jackson Bailey
Aang was the Air Nomad to become an airbending master in history. Katara destroyed an iceberg through sheer anger in the first 5 minutes of the series, and once started training under Pakku she skyrocketed past his other students and became the best.
Camden Jenkins
*youngest
Liam Bennett
>Jin missed her chance with Zuko >still wants sum Fire Royalty Fuk >puts on her war paint and hunts Azula down in the wilds >turns out Jin is some kind of ninja savant whose powers are only unlocked when she's on the prowl for sex >also turns out that all Azula needed to make her sane again was to be repeatedly muff-punched by an EK girl with giant tits
I'd buy that for a dollar.
Kayden James
why did no airbender ever figure out normal flight anyway? They always needed that glider then when Oozai just went lmao rocket jets and that guy who literally never airbended in his life mastered flight in 2 seconds
Jack Lewis
>she surpassed all of Pakku's experienced students all kids
>she defeated the person that discovered how to bloodbend 1- Hama wasn't the first bloodbender, she just discovered how to bloodbend. If anything, by not having a bloodbend master helping her, her bloodbend was weak.
2- Hama wasn't really that good of a WATERbender, and that's what the fight is about in the end.
Everyone that had an actual master is supposed to be good, as opposed to 99% of other benders without a master.
>Aang was a prodigy airbender even accounting for being an Avatar he was a prodigy airbender Because of the avatar. Avatar knowledge is not something he can just shut off; that's why he learned waterbending so fast.
Isaiah Johnson
they couldn't enter the void
Asher Allen
also Hama kind of wanted Katara to win since it would mean Katara would learn bloodblending. I mean the only way anyone ever really beats a bloodbender is by surprise attack or if they let you win
Brody Johnson
There's a philosophical reason behind the ability to fly, at least through airbending. You can't have any attachment to earth, nothing holding you down. After the death of his girlfriend, Zaheer didn't have anything.
Aiden Richardson
yeah but they were airbending monks, they're literally all buddhists who threw away all earthly attachments to live in a dusty temple with other bald guys
Ayden Morgan
>Aang was the Air Nomad to become an airbending master in history yes, BECAUSE he had the past lives helping him learn. The same happened with waterbending.
>Katara destroyed an iceberg through sheer anger She caused it to crack, it's different, and it's not pointed out to be anything more significant than that. Also, even screaming near a snow mountain can cause an avalanche. It's like saying an earthbender that moved a rock to start a reaction that ended up destroying a mountain is strong enough to destroy a mountain himself.
Ian Parker
Starting at a young age, Air Nomad children begin travelling around the world. None of them would want to detach themselves from the world after seeing so much amazing shit in it.
Christopher Hughes
I assume since they still cared about there students they could not fly
Grayson Cruz
>the only way anyone ever really beats a bloodbender is by surprise attack or if they let you win You can literally overcome bloodbending by not being a total faggot. Even a half faggot was able to do it.
Noah Ortiz
>he was a prodigy airbender Because of the avatar Roku at the age of 16 wasn't especially gifted the way Aang at the age of 12 was.
Henry Powell
not to mention Kora was triple bending at age 5 or some shit
David Gray
The avatar knowledge doesn't trigger at the same age for everyone. Korra was able to bend 3 elements at 4 years old, without even getting training. She wasn't a prodigy, she just received help.
Matthew Nelson
They had each other. You do realize the entire series takes place in like 9 months, right? Katara's sum progress through the show is amazing.
Andrew Long
>why did no airbender ever figure out normal flight anyway because Zaheer needed to be a special snowflake, so despite being clearly driven by his ideals he was able to get good at bending in two weeks, and then fly.
Blake Barnes
>Zaheer didn't have anything Then why was he trying to kill Korra?
>Katara's sum progress through the show is amazing. It's hard to say when they mostly fight people without any training. Literally anyone can join the FN army. I just think it made her look stronger than she actually is.
Jose Baker
But Korra still needed 10 years of training to master these three. And even then, I wouldn't say that Korra with her three elements was more skilled than Aang using just air.
Camden Nelson
Agreed. Korra is a strong bender, but her skill is a little above average at the most. It still took her years to master the three elements she could actually access.
Samuel Peterson
Korra was filled with the stupidest, goofiest most OP villains. Kuvira was the only one worth anything.
Brandon Evans
I don't know about that, Mako only managed to wrest control back for like a second to get off one of his instant lightning attacks, it's not like he was fighting it off permanently like Aang did with the AS.
Jackson Morris
The Dai Li start training as kids.
Oliver Carter
Anyone has the tier list that an user posted here days ago?
Lucas Hernandez
>Korra still needed 10 years of training to master these three Aang needed 10 years of training to master one.
> I wouldn't say that Korra with her three elements was more skilled than Aang using just air She probably wasn't. Has to do with how much the avatar knowledge can help you. It was noticeable that Aang had a hard time learning water, and Katara even surprassed him at some point. Being the avatar helps, it just doesn't help all the way.
Noah Richardson
I like Zaheer. He makes Korra look so inept and useless as avatar. I think world would be better without avatar.
Jeremiah Gomez
>Then why was he trying to kill Korra? Consider it a moral obligation more than a goal.
Robert Young
a half faggot can get seconds. A non-faggot will get minutes.
>The Dai Li start training as kids they lost to the dai li
Nolan Perry
>Aang needed 10 years of training to master one. And 9 months to master three
Dominic Adams
Katara managed to fend off several of them.
Easton Myers
world be better if the fire nation won desu
Jacob Torres
Same shit. Even that autistic yelling he made at the end when he was captured shows how he wasn't able to let go of anything. This is ridiculous; You're telling monks that trained decades to 'let go', stucked in a temple, weren't able to achieve flight, but a guy that is is driven by his goals after 12 years imprisoned, and had a GIRLFRIEND, can do it?
Angel Perez
Mako is just bullshit all around though so it's really a fair comparison.
Chase Gutierrez
I remember they put Toph on the second tier and put Azula above Katara even though Katara defeated Azula. So whatever.
William Perry
Maybe goals arent "earthly"
Aaron Thompson
Over generations they forgot the cloudwalking skill that their ancestors knew on the Lion Turtle
That flying nimbus shit was better than flight
Jordan Howard
>Once he went and learned from a dragon with Aang the "true" way to fire bend, he quickly went back to being exactly the same as before and still almost lost to his sister when it was two against one. Fix'd.
Isaac Young
Are you mad that I can lightbender without dancing while you're a hack, Fire Lord Zuko?
Hudson Roberts
>master three He didn't master any of them, on the general sense. Toph herself says he sucks at earthbending by the end of the show.
and in the end was defeated. Buying time doesn't mean you are of the same ability.
That said i should point out that there is a spiritual element to bending; some people ARE more powerful than others, without that meaning some sort of 'genius'. They are just born powerful for whatever reason, like some people are born physically stronger than others. Many strong people meeting on the battleground is normal. Belittling this is like saying a character is bad for being really tall and using that in his favor in basketball.
Angel Sanders
Just because you sit around in a temple all day doesn't mean you're better at letting go than anyone else. And it took his girlfriend dying for him to let go of her, he couldn't fly before that happened.
His last words there were pretty stupid though i agree.
Grayson Brown
She gave Pakku a hell of a fight before he started training her. And her skills and knowledge progressed enough that Pakku trusted her to train Aang, the last best hope for the world against the Fire Nation
She beat Azula twice, she whupped Dai Li agents,Ty Lee and Mai who'd defeated a ton of Earth Kingdom generals
Noah Williams
I'm more mad at Mako being somehow more execptional than anyone else in the series.
Colton Hernandez
>Toph herself says he sucks at earthbending by the end of the show. Only compared to herself and Bumi. He was easily beating Dai Li soldiers at earthbending in Lake Laogai and The Earth King.
Nolan Howard
Eh, I have less problems with two street rats, turned into criminals, turned into professional bending MMA fighters becoming really good than rich teenage girls like Asami, Mai and Ty Lee defeating trained soldiers.
Cooper Jenkins
She retreated because Aang was shot through the heart with lightning.
Adrian Turner
Ty Lee was rich?
I also don't have a problem with Mako and Bolin. They were strong, but the others professional benders and triad members were just as strong, with not stronger.
Julian Wilson
>She gave Pakku a hell of a fight before he started training her kek, no. He defeated her easily.
>Pakku trusted her to train Aang not like they had any choice
>She beat Azula twice once, i believe, and only when Azula was crazy.
>she whupped Dai Li agents she lost that fight against the Dai Li
>Ty Lee and Mai If i remember well the two first times they fought, Katara was saved by Appa.
>Only compared to herself and Bumi She said he needed a lot of work, in both earthbending and firebending. It is also said later that earthbending is the element Aang had more trouble with. He probably never really mastered it.
>He was easily beating Dai Li soldiers at earthbending in Lake Laogai and The Earth King He lost to other Dai Li soldiers, and he had 3 other elements to help.
Juan Stewart
Oh yeah that's fine. But they really make a big deal out of how amazing Mako is all the time, even Amon makes a bigger deal out of Makos bending ability than he does Korras and she's the avatar.
Parker Young
>rich teenage girls like Asami, Mai and Ty Lee defeating trained soldiers.
Mai has the stupidest skillset. She apparently practiced throwing knives in her room because she was so bored, and she only targets clothes? At least make her a ninja, dammit.
Brayden Fisher
People are still salty about the Mako-wanking in Book 1, I see. He really doesn't do much after it.
Brayden Bell
>She retreated because Aang was shot through the heart with lightning He was shot in the heart with lightning because he tried to save her from being killed by them. Iroh had to help cover their escape.
Jaxon James
Yeah he gets much better after book 1.
Kevin Gray
To be fair, Mako's somehow a better overall fighter than Korra. Korra just has more raw power and elements.
Nathaniel Wright
>Amon makes a bigger deal out of Makos bending ability I always saw that comment as Amon telling Korra "neener-neener-neener Imma take your boyfriend's bending"
Justin Mitchell
>not like they had any choice Pakku could have gone with them on Appa as they went to find Bumi in the Earth Kingdom.
>once, i believe, and only when Azula was crazy. Underneath Ba Sing Se, Azula needed to be saved by Zuzu
>she lost that fight against the Dai Li She fought them several times, and only lost when she had to retreat when Azula shot Aang in the back and she was overwhelmed by like 2 dozen Dai Li agents who kept getting reinforcements
Eli Evans
I just don't think he should be, she is the avatar, apperently a prodigy aswell and had the (pressumably) best teachers available to her, while he's a street kid and a decent pro-bending athlete.
Julian Parker
>Pakku could have gone with them If he could, he would. He clearly had to stay, or else he would make helping the avatar his top priority.
>Azula needed to be saved by Zuzu you mean when Katara and Aang were 2x1 her. Katara had to be saved by Aang as well.
>She fought them several times How many times alone?
Parker Adams
>he gets much better after book 1.
"Better" is relative.
After the season one wanking, he didn't have too much going on for him. Bolin's arcs progressed more and were even more important to the overall plot.
Owen Parker
Well by better i meant he become less annoying and less of a douche. I remember alot of people hated him after book 1 but got over it as the seasons progressed.