Talking to Black Panther writer Ta-Nehesi Coates, he has told The Verge website that his Black Panther spinoff series Black Panther & The Crew has been cancelled after #6 – the decision being made after two issues had been published. bleedingcool.com
The other Black Panther spinoff series, Black Panther: World Of Wakanda was also cancelled with #6 last month.
I wonder what Christopher Priest thinks about this?
>Marvel stealth minis confirmed minis
yawn
>Black Panther: World Of Wakanda
>Ghost Rider
>Great Lakes Avengers
>Starlord
>Nova
>Elektra
>Kingpin
>now this
At least they said Slapstick and Bullseye were minis right away?
To the surprise of no one.
Does it say why?
That Steve Rogers should have a NAZI banner. Drawfags, if you please?
>"Let's put all the Negroes together!!!!"
>"We're so progressive and #woke!!!"
Same kind of "anti-racist" racism as "Iron Fist should be Asian because only Asians are allowed to use Martial Arts"
It’s Marvel getting in its own way. Black Panther is a hit. So let us have three Black Panther titles and wonder why all three will get canceled instead of having one Black Panther series that sells. He has a movie coming out so we have to milk him out for all we can.
Nova and Starlord were supposed to be ongoing. Chip mentioned on his tumblr that it was cancelled early, and Loveless was also planning longer things. Both books had awful sales.
Everything else in that list seems like a stealth mini though
How the fuck is any comic supposed to sustain itself off of the sales metrics of two issues?!
so make a Black Panther book without Black Panther and its cancelled
ok
hello, Bleeding Cool
Did Black Panther really need a third book?
Felipe called Ghost Rider an ongoing when it was first announced.
Still, He has a point.
Oh shit, there was a new "The Crew", was it good?
it was woke
Wow, maybe Marvel should STOP FUCKING RELAUNCHING EVERYTHING JESUS CHRIST
It fucking kills books, and they're too retarded to stop.
>everyone itt: people that didn't read the comic
>write comic saying FUCK WHITE PEOPLE WE IZ KANGS
>gets canned in record time
Nice progress there
So that's a "no".
I read it storytimed. I didn't hate it. But it seemed weird to give Black Panther a THIRD book. And it looks like it didn't work.
I'm still upset Slapstick was an Infinity comic.
Speaking of Black Panther, did technologically advanced african lesbians pick up after the first few issues? I dropped it after three? issues
So you didn't actually read the book
Sales don't increase. At best, they'll stabalize with occasional bumps in sales. Meaning if the book is at cancellation numbers by issue 2 then it's not going to get above cancellation numbers at any point.
>missing the point this hard
Did you get lost on your way to Sup Forums?
Priest doesn't care. He seems like someone who doesn't get to attached to projects.
Priest wasn't writing so no.
Wtf lol #2 came out last week.
I was digging the adventures of Storm and Misty Knight.
It's not even a black panther book
Bp hasn't even showed up in the two issues out. Just Storm and Misty Knight
Damn, that was quick!
Wypipo rage when characters get black replacements but when they have a chance to support a brand new comic about opressed minority, they don't use it. Hope you'll enjoy black Wolverine.
"Stealth mini" is what Marvelfags call all of Marvels failed books
He showed up at the end of the 2nd one
I guess Black Panther's 15 seconds of fame are up. Remember when the first issue of his most current series blew the fuck up and sold like hot cakes? And now they're struggling to keep a series running for more than 6 issues...
>Remember when the first issue of his most current series blew the fuck up and sold like hot cakes?
The first issue was tied to an exclusive Poe Dameron variant. You had to order a huge number of BP#1's to get it.
Here's a wacky idea; put the World of Wakanda and Crew strips as secondary strips in the Black Panther comic.
TNC is a big name and a big get for marvel.
Then it turned out his fiction sucks
No it's the truth. Marvel doesn't like marketing minis as minis as they believe that causes people to not buy them. Instead everything that's launched is done as an ongoing so it exists in this weird limbo where if it's got some level of success it can keep going and if it doesn't then it gets "cancelled".
Events are really the only exception to that.
Except people don't buy them anyway
>tfw the DC Rebirth Line still hasn't cancelled anything
Just keep looking for that 'audience' Marvelcucks :')
Looks like Ta Naheesi Coates fans are just like Kate Leth and her fans. They don't read the things they say they're fans of.
Black Panther sells. But Marlel is too busy cannibalizing the sales.
1/3 aint bag I guess right?
if this was fucking baseball.
> Let's hire more people to write comic books who have no history writing comic books!
Keep up the good work Marlel
>qualification to write Black Panther: Father was actual Black Panther
you can't make this shit up
What a shock.
Why is Marvel doing so bad compared to DC? Is DC just doing the opposite of what Marvel does?
There is nothing wrong with that. The problem is that they're throwing people without industry background onto titles with nothing to help them understand the differences in writing comics. There is no workshop to help educate them, they're not being paired with established writers initially as a form of apprenticeship, and there isn't a low-level editorial staff that can take a pass at the work and send it back to the writer with suggestions for a better flow.
If Coates was writing in the BD style or simply doing graphic novels it wouldn't be so bad, but his writing simply isn't geared for the monthly format.
BP doesn't really need to be on The Crew. World of Wakanda should have been a Shuri title with BP as a supporting/recurring character.
>Why is Marvel doing so bad compared to DC? Is DC just doing the opposite of what Marvel does?
Yes and no.
Yes in the sense that DC has finally realized "being just like Marvel" was killing them and that they had to service the old time fans who wanted continuity.
No, in the sense that Marvel is shooting itself in the foot by hiring unproven people with social snowflake points to helm books that no one wants and sales are reflecting this. See for a great explanation.
The apprenticeship system barely existed under Shooter and was gone by the time Harras took over 2 editors later. Neither publisher wants unsolicited submissions from fans who've grown up with the characters, and the result is books being written by webcomics creators/novelists/failed screenwriters who want to use the characters to trumpet their own points of view no matter what damage it does.
Thanks in part to Alonso, there are creative officers at Marvel who did not come up through the ranks and barely understand the medium -- but are certain they know what's best for it and believe that social media will signal boost badly written books for no known demographic (then passive-aggressively chide the actual buying audience for not supporting products no one wanted).
Beyond that, DC actually took the time to listen to fan complaints and tailor a product that the fans wanted while keeping what was working and using the stable base of fans to give themselves room to try new books. Marvel has just been throwing things at the wall to see what sticks ever since their tentpole books started underperforming.
Marvel's basically where they were before Shooter took charge, a bunch of stagnant, self-indulging writers putting out stories that aren't resonating with enough readers to justify themselves.
It's a balancing act. One the one hand you don't want creatives too unfamiliar with the background and history, and you don't want ones who are overly attached to the background and history.
And I'm not talking about unsolicited submissions, that's just asking for trouble, or a formal apprentice system, just something like "Okay, you're new so for your first few issues you're getting paired with X who is going to help you tighten your plots and dialogue."
>DC actually took the time to listen to fan complaints and tailor a product that the fans wanted while keeping what was working and using the stable base of fans to give themselves room to try new books
To be fair, this is literally the first time they bothered to do so, after a succession of reboots/resets that only yielded dead-cat bounces in sales.
>Marvel's basically where they were before Shooter took charge
Except even then they would have cancelled books selling under 20K copies without a second thought.
>and you don't want ones who are overly attached to the background and history
The two writers who typify that (Byrne and Claremont) made some of the most successful books there. EiC means wrangling talent, not finding easy-going schmucks who turn out pablum.
I hadn't even realized it had started.
>"Okay, you're new so for your first few issues you're getting paired with X who is going to help you tighten your plots and dialogue."
That's what they did until very recently. Off the top of my head Bunn's first arc on Venom was co-writing with Remender. That's the last time they did it that I remember.
I wouldn't call Nu52 a dead-cat bounce, it just wasn't a long-term success. Nu52 saw Aquaman outselling all of Marvel for two issues before AvX dropped, five months after Nu52 started.
My definition of a dead-cat bounce is an event that doesn't yield long-term success. The difference between Marvel and DC here is that DC doesn't have Tom Brapvoort claiming that outrage sells books.
>you don't want ones who are overly attached to the background and history.
I'm sorry, why?
Going by unit market share, DC enjoyed a sales boost from Flashpoint and Nu52 that lasted from June 2011 to March 2013.
NOT MUH! on the most immediate effect, and continuity lockout at the worst. Bob Harras more or less killed X-Men because of it and it's a huge reason he got fired.
Because then you have old geezers that inject their fetishes and favorite characters into everything.
yeah, just because you can write essays and non-fiction doesn't mean you know shit about telling a story. But let's be real, Marvel didn't bring him on board because of his ability to write comics. He's the "it" black writer of the moment and they wanted to bring in a minority readership by slapping his name on their most recognized black superhero.
I'm not trying to defend Marvel here as I think that's a very stupid practice as well but that's the mindset they're going from. It's a very wishy-washy outlook where they don't have to commit themselves to shit.
Don't forget the likely biggest factor too: most of DC's books are $2.99. That extra dollar makes a world of difference. Look at books that were selling at the turn of the millennium (late '90s, 2000, 2001, that time frame). Most of them were priced at $1.99 which, adjusting for inflation, comes out to around... $2.99 in 2017!
That's how Fraction broke into Marvel too, getting paired to "co-write" with Brubaker who's said that by late in his Iron Fist run it was all Fraction and Bru wasn't really writing anything.
That leads to the Dan Slotts of the world taking root.
Wrong.
Right.
At least Spider-Gwen is still breaking sales records.
>the series couldn’t find an audience
This is laughably false. The problem is that it had the SAME audience as the OTHER TWO FUCKING BP BOOKS!
>The other Black Panther spinoff series, Black Panther: World Of Wakanda was also cancelled with #6 last month.
They keep doing this shit where they cannibalize their own sales. And it's not like owners of LCS haven't been bitching about it to anyone who'd listen:
comicsbeat.com
>At least Spider-Gwen is still breaking sales records.
How'd the fetishists/SJWs handle Bendy's bait-and-switch?
Here's how you save Marvel Comics (not including licenced books/non-Marvel Universe)
1. X-Men
2. New Mutants
3. Avengers
4. Ultimates
5. Champions
6. Guardians Of The Galaxy
7. Inhumans
8. Defenders (netflix team)
9. Monstersupernatural character team-up
10.Fantastic Four
11. Spider-Man (Peter)
10 teams and one solo book. Come out twice a month. No other books, other than a stray mini-series.
Fire all the editors, and Sana, Axel, and Fedora. Fire all the current writers.
Hire well-known genre novel authors/screenwriters/tv showrunners.
Pay them 3 times as much as a normal Marvel writer.
A writer can only work on one book and can only work on it for a year. And has to work on a closed plotline, that will be resolved at the end of their year.
THE END.
>Hire well-known genre novel authors/screenwriters/tv showrunners.
Yeah, because that worked out so well for Mockingbird and Yaas Queen ...
>Gunn writes a GOTG comic
He's the only one that understands them in their current form, it seems like.
Eleven titles is far too few. They need a broad selection because niche titles draw a wider audience and create better word-of-mouth.
My idea: Core books releasing twice-monthly, and then a few monthly titles that act as satellite books for those teams.
Uncanny X-Men (New Mutants, X-Force, Wolverine)
Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes (Thor, S.H.I.E.L.D., Hulk)
Young Avengers (Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, Ironheart)
Future Foundation (Silver Surfer, Fantastic Four, Power Pack)
Spider-Men (The Amazing Spider-Man, The Ultimate Spider-Man, Venom, Carnage)
Ultimates (Inhumans, Guardians of the Galaxy)
Heroes for Hire (Daredevil, Punisher)
No more than six concurrent miniseries.
The Crew is shit anyway. May as well have a white only team called The Clan
Better than Sup Forums did.
This is a really good idea if you want Marvel to go out of business.
there's a lot of all-white teams, though
>white
02/15 Spider-Gwen #1 - 278,575
03/15 Spider-Gwen #2 - 107,070 (-61.6%)
04/15 spider-Gwen #3 - 102,234 (- 4.5%)
05/15 Spider-Gwen #4 - 86,586 (-15.3%)
06/15 Spider-Gwen #5 - 67,697 (-21.8%)
10/15 Spider-Gwen #1 - 197,103
11/15 Spider-Gwen #2 - 62,209 (-68.4%)
12/15 Spider-Gwen #3 - 54,844 (-11.8%)
01/16 Spider-Gwen #4 - 48,664 (-11.3%)
02/16 Spider-Gwen #5 - 43,796 (-10.0%)
03/16 Spider-Gwen #6 - 46,060 (+ 5.2%)
04/16 Spider-Gwen #7 - 60,900 (+32.2%) (Spider-Women)
05/16 Spider-Gwen #8 - 49,681 (-18.4%) (Spider-Women)
06/16 Spider-Gwen #9 - 41,713 (-17,1%)
07/16 Spider-Gwen #10- 35,136 (-15.8%)
08/16 Spider-Gwen #11- 36,212 (+ 3.1%)
09/16 Spider-Gwen #12- 34,004 (- 6.1%)
10/16 Spider-Gwen #13- 29,346 (-13.7%)
11/16 Spider-Gwen #14- 28,906 (- 1.5%)
12/16 Spider-Gwen #15- 27,898 (- 3.5%)
01/17 Spider-Gwen #16- 34,768 (+24.6%)
02/17 Spider-Gwen #17- 29,255 (-15.9%)
03/17 Spider-Gwen #17- 34,810
Hey, sometimes it works. See China Mieville or Paul di Filippo.
this would be a step in the right direction but there's still a lot of dead weight. I think everyone agrees Marvel should be reorganize the books by line like in the 90's
>Avengers
Avengers, Thor, Cap, Hulk, Iron Man
>X-Men
4 main X-Men books, New Mutants or Gen X, Weapon X or X-Force, Wolverine, Deadpool
>Spider-Man
Pete, Miles, Gwen, Venom
>Everybody Else
Defenders, Daredevil, Champions, GOTG, Captain Marvel & Ms.Marvel, Black Panther, Punisher,
Bunn picked up on his own.
Remender did 1-22 and Circle of 4 all on his own. 22 was his last Venom credit.
>Black Panther & The Crew
Jesus, why not "black panther in da hood"
Mieville had Berger as his editor. That is like a bigger advantage than anything else.
bendis and hickman too
Pity about the art. It was too dark for such a fun story.
The Crew already existed in the 90s; it was developed by Chris Priest. It was a flop because people considered it a racist book
More like:
>Hey you're black, here's a black character for you to write? Wuzzat, you have no knowledge of the many African cultures? B-but you're black!
This is more of a step in the right direction, but the "Everyone else" is kind of nebulous, risking more books just being shoved into that catagory rather than being kept to a minimum. You could easily turn that into:
COSMIC (GotG, Inhumans, Silver Surfer, FF)
STREET (Iron Fist, Daredevil, Punisher, Defenders, maybe even Dr. Strange since there isn't enough to really qualify a MYSTIC imprint)
I like having the FF as their own thing too though, as suggests -- Fantastic Four, Future Foundation, throw in young heroes like Ms. Marvel and ChoHulk.
I think Marvel might be better off confining niche/cult characters (think about the Morbius series from a few years ago, the one that was a "sleeper hit" before it even came out...) to set runs rather than try to get a full series out of it and having to shitcan it when the sales are bad. Just 6 issues, maybe 12 if the initial six are a hit.
This is the way shit's going now, people want set length stories rather than having to commit to long form/endless storytelling. It's easier to keep continuity and build worlds too -- If the last guy only did 6 issues it's easier to build upon than 6 years of stories.
That gets you the problem of people not buying it because they think it's a miniseries. You'd be better off just doing market research and telling the writer, "you're getting X number of issues regardless and if sales are about Y level, you get more."
When will that awful Unbeatable Squirrel Girl end, Sup Forums?
Less than you'd think in current Marvel.
Mockingbird was 6 great issues and 2 infuriating ones.
That's a better ratio than most recent Marvel comics.
>It was a flop because
Explain please!
The co-wrote the Savage Six arc and then Remender did 22 alone as a capstone to his run.
these days not even Marvels Editors could keep up with that, Brevoort is the only one left from the old guard, let that sink in