On Adventure Time

What went wrong?
No, for real. I rewatched the pilot that exploded on the internet again recently, and there's just this charm that the full series failed to capture. Hell, even the first season did a decent job of capturing it, but then it stops being about a boy growing up in a magical world going on adventures, and becomes a drama about a hormonal teenage boy being written by someone who doesn't understand relationships or drama, where story arcs happen but they almost never have lasting consequences, and are often resolved in the most anticlimactic way possible.
And LSP totally raped Finn and everyone is just ok with it.

LSP's one of the most hated characters right now, very few people were ok with it.
Plus she's so goddamn annoying.

I meant more in the context of the show, though I'm glad to hear that I'm not in the minority for not liking that joke that ran its course long ago.

Fire princess. Her existence in the show overstayed it's welcome.

Bubbline and Simon wrecked Marceline as a whole too

The show changed, whether you consider that a positive or a negative is subjective.

Personally, I still love the show. I think that if it had kept the same tone as the first season it would've become creatively stagnant very fast.

Took itself too seriously basically

Early AT is amazing but I never liked the pilot. It's mostly boring and not that funny, especially Ice King and Bubblegum who are so boring compared to their show characters. Glad other people liked it enough for the actual show to be made.

As for the rest it happens, AT had to change or die and change it did. I prefer the earlier seasons cause I think they were much better at being a fun wacky cartoon then a semi serious wacky cartoon that frequently deals with realistic topics, but on the whole I think they did an admirable job. Show was on the whole good the entire way through barring some rough periods in season 5 and 6.

Come on man, she showed up like 5 times before Finn broke up with her. Such an insignificant character she's barely a blip on the radar.
Porbablly for the best because she's real boring.

The show is adding more and more variables and characters and subplots that it's just so big, it's not simple anymore.

seasons 1-3 are good

I don't hate FP, but her relationship with Finn was resolved and swept under the rug in the dumbest way possible.

Bubbline was dumb and comes out of nowhere, I'm fine with the Simon thing but it really started to dominate Ice King's character.

The recent Islands thing was fine, but you can't deny that the relationship drama was tiring, and too many story arcs had be resolved in completely dumb ways.
Even if it's improved lately, it's just been bad for too long for me to get back in.

I actually kind of liked IK and PB being huge cliches, it added to the silly fantasy feeling that the setting had. PB in the series proper feels like she suffers from an identity crisis early on, where the writers weren't really sure what they wanted her to be. And then later she just becomes candy Hitler.

definitely the best cartooning I think there's been in the 2010's so far not counting Jack

>but you can't deny that the relationship drama was tiring
Honestly, it wasn't even that big of a deal. I think it got blown way out of proportion. Seasons 5 and 6 were great, even if they had a few dud episodes.

Her original semi-antagonist appearance was alright but the writers fucked everything up after that.

In literally her next appearance, they're both chill with each other. That's like at least half a season's worth of possible episodes skipped.

Then they got a female writer/artist to fill in the gap through a graphic novel but it came out shortly before or after they broke them up in the show. Poor woman.

PB was barely even a cliche though, she was a dull prop. IIRC all she did was thank Finn for being a brave knight and kiss his forehead. With that being all we have to go on there's really not that much.

Even in season 1 I think they did a better job at playing with the usual princess cliches, like that part where she was saying bye to Finn and was like "Oh wait a minute" then pulled out her napkin thing and waves them off. Little touches like that put her above Pilot PB, and the better VA.

And show Ice King really stomps on Pilot Ice King in every metric.

It was rightly blown out for giving us the finger with a second romance ship full of angst and wrecking Finn for such a long time

>dull prop
hell of a more entertaining watch than current PB whenever she appears

Reminds me of the Kid PB thing that lasted all of one episode.

Honestly, it feels to me like Pendleton Ward doesn't run a tight enough ship, there are just all these weird plot holes that crop up, retcons that are introduced, and story arcs that just sort of go nowhere. It feels like he had no vision, and the series as a whole suffers for it.
I hate to bring Steven Universe into this, but that's more along the lines of how you should to a continuity based cartoon.
Say what you want about it, but at least things happen and stay happened. Characters develop, and tone shifts as the story develops.

It feels like they never knew what to do with FP. She so rarely showed up even though she was the main's girlfriend, most of her episodes didn't revolve around her (fucking Ignition Point holy shit) and then when Earth and Water comes around they made her a wise ruler out of nowhere. None of it matches up and through all this she was a boring character.

Hell, her entire existence is a failure because she was made to let Finn be happy with a girlfriend then he acts retarded and screws up harder with her then PB. What a mess.

From what I heard the girl who was writing her story arc left or something, so they just had Finn cucked by Cinnamon Bun.

Season 1 PB was pretty good, yeah. She wasn't completely consumed by the mad scientist angle yet, and she still felt like a princess.

Show Ice King is good, but I feel like he was always a bit too goofy, even early on.

>hell of a more entertaining watch than current PB whenever she appears
At this point I can see that argument but that's ignoring the at least 3-4 seasons where Bubblegum was lots of fun. Pilot PB would lack so much charm. Really not sure why you're so big on Pilot Bubblegum, she was really nothing special. The way the show made her a scientist and later on a legit politician went miles to make her character not totally boring.

>loli PB can't rule because Ooo Kingdom Law says she's not 18
>FP takes over and rules Fire Kingdom despite being 15/16
>mfw

I'm a different user, and shit, I mean Season 1-4 PB > Current PB sorry about that

That's ignoring the biggest plot point which is that Finn could have just kicked Lemongrab's ass and got him to leave the kingdom
Or the way that Bubblegum created all the candy people and for some reason made a rule that if she was under 18 she couldn't rule. What a retard, she deserved to get kicked off her throne

In total, there's like what, 4 episodes dealing with the breakup? It never bothered me in the slightest. I disagree on wrecking Finn, depressed Finn was pretty interesting for the time we got it. Dungeon Train was a GOAT episode.

The only redeeming thing left in the series is Jake. Jake has always been great.

these desu

Oh okay yeah I get that.

I feel like she can still be good sometimes but they make her too reserved and play up how competent she is. She's a fucking immortal genius scientist who can also kick people's ass and now has magic powers, too OP man.
It's annoying how she's blatantly the show's pet character.

I always thought Season 5 and 6 PB were the most fun, playing up the crazy scientist angle pretty hard. I like that they've humanised her more in the recent seasons though.

Ice King, Jake, 90% of Finn were always good. Even at their barest forms they're fun guys to watch and it's hard to screw up Jake and Ice King really bad.

Everyone else has their moments of shit.

I'm actually not a fan of full on science PB, since they kind of forgot her original characterization as royalty in the process. It's just such a complete departure from the original character, it feels so forced and out of place.

Remember when her emotions were so powerful they endangered the entire planet, because the show sure as shit doesn't

>Or the way that Bubblegum created all the candy people and for some reason made a rule that if she was under 18 she couldn't rule.
Again, this comes back to the fact that the lore, for the most part, wasn't planned and was mostly made up on the spot. Which is unfortunate as it creates a ton of dumb plot holes.

>At one point in the show Jake was the calm, reasonable one while Finn was the crazier one who frequently had to get bailed out of trouble by Jake
They sort of switched personalities as time went on

Yes, Dungeon Train was good, but everything regarding his character angst story line from 5-7 every time he appeared was mostly toxic.

Jake's been a cockblock with the ladies lately and Finn needs to branch off from him IMO. Like, I get he was troubled to the core in Elements and was really rattled, but I don't think he should be THAT co-dependent on PB/Jake in his life.

Fucking that too. What the fuck would happen if she kicked him out? The Gumball Guardians would flip out? She fucking programmed them.

>The only redeeming thing left in the series is Jake.
user...

>Jake gets design change and Finn still doesn't
Alright, NOW they're bullshitting around. They don't wanna age up his design with his character this pretty much confirms it.

I have the rare opinion that usually AT manages to cobble their retard lore and histoy into each other in a way that actually makes sense a good amount of the time but the early stuff they established about the CK has never meshed with the season 5 onward stuff.

PB being 800 years old and even starting the thing in the first place just opens up way too many holes. I get the feeling that they just did it because they wantedd to make PB cooler and didn't care about the inconsistencies.

Come on man, Jake's design is lasting two episodes at most then going back to normal. It's basically the equivalent of when Finn looked older in Puhoy or something.

>but everything regarding his character angst story line from 5-7 every time he appeared was mostly toxic.
That basically ended with Breezy. The only time he gets depressed again is Music Hole which is another solid episode. The amount of episodes that actually deal with it is grossly over-exaggerated.

Sorry for phone posting but what did they mean by this???

It's really weird because it was pretty clear that Finn was aging for awhile, but then just kind of stops aging at a certain point.
Hopefully they show an older Finn in the last episode, since it's ending soon.

I dunno. It's fine in some instances, but then it just brings up these really weird questions that the writers didn't think about, like why Jake's kids are half dog despite him not actually being a dog.

>Like, I get he was troubled to the core in Elements and was really rattled, but I don't think he should be THAT co-dependent on PB/Jake in his life.

Look at context man, Finn had the weight of the world on his shoulders with out his main man to lean on. And even then he was still doing his job, he only temporarily lapsed into despair.

He's half dog on Joshua's side I thought.

Even then I feel like that's not near all the Candy Kingdom stuff, and they keep doubling down on it even when it has such a flawed base.
Though I guess they don't care about the early seasons as much as some of us do so whatever.

I miss when Marceline was just this hot goth chick next door who wanted to hang out with Finn to fill the ennui of her immortal life.

It was bound to happen, AT really didn't have the comedy to become the new Spongebob and it would've taken a lot of effort and good writing to keep the premise exciting, fun and creative. The story driven narrative was going to happen eventually, and even if they fucked up immensely we all know we were all invested on what was going to happen.

Honestly is not that bad as some people make it out to be, specially the latest mini-series, and what Adventure Time was and was going to be wasn't as good as some other make it out to be, it was fresh, original and fun, and that's great and what western animation needed when it came out, but that's about it.

>What went wrong?
Basically it went from
>hey we're totally in a nonsensical world having fun and being dumb heroes!
to
>We're on a post apocalyptic earth. The last human, who totally isn't the last human because the villain they were fighting was actually a human and so was the dumbass underground and his father who was in a crystal in another dimension and a bunch of people on an island exist, grows up and deals with several problems in his life from relationship issues to being the reincarnation of a comet that comes every 1000 years

Basically it one upped KH in retarded plot.

>Back to normal
1. How you know that

2. Will this cause as much dissatisfaction as Finn regaining his arm

Finn had the weight of the world on his shoulders many times. He's kept it together more in Crossover and as a kid fighting the Lich on the brink of death. I chalk it up to three of many areas that make up his personality that fluctuates depending on the writer or episode. 1. Intelligence 2. Strength 3. composure

It's still apart of him. Even in elements with that PB scene even though they keep piledriving it into the ground they dig it up for some reason.

Wait, so Jake is a rape baby?

That's only like 20% as retarded as KH and you know it
The comet shit is the only stuff from AT that is full on retard I think

Post Apocalypse was a thing from the very first episode. Hell, it wouldn't shock me if the pilot hinted at it.
But yeah, the plot got stupid after a while.

The only early Candy Kingdom stuff that doesn't mesh well now is Lemongrab and I guess PB's uncle, but it's not so inconsisent that I can't overlook it. I feel like it's justifiable enough.

>1. How you know that
Because I've been watching Adventure Time for like 6 years now. These things have patterns.
And it won't be as bad as Finn's arm because no one cares that much about poor Jakey or has much investment in this plot. Hell, I've seen lots of people saying they think his design is creepy so they'll probably be happy when he goes back to cute doggy form. Different situations.

>Her original semi-antagonist appearance was alright but the writers fucked everything up after that.
it's funny because that applies to marceline too,.

>He's kept it together more in Crossover and as a kid fighting the Lich on the brink of death.

And Jake was there. What's the thing that happened in Elements to make him freak out?

You're being way too hard on this thing, it's fine dude. If anything another reason I can use is that as Finn grows up he's started doubting himself a lot more so that coupled with Jake being gone gives plenty of valid reasoning that he would act how he did.

Compared to Adventure Time KH makes sense.
I mean,, Adventure Time is trying to cram in too much lore that doesn't really connect like hybrid Jake, the elementals, Orgalorg, The Lich and so on.

At the very least with KH you can simplify it to he's Xehanort and they aren't.

>Even in elements with that PB scene even though they keep piledriving it into the ground they dig it up for some reason.
That scene was great though. It shows how their relationship has evolved and how he treasures it. They're not hinting at fubble happening or anything like that, although it is likely that Finn still harbours some lingering romantic feelings.

WHAT A MESS WE MADE
WHEN IT ALL WENT WRONG

The show relied on lots of background buildup hype. Hinting at things to come over very long periods of time.

But in every case when the moments actually came they were rushed to fuck. At first it was relatively ignorable but over time it wore us all down to the point where we couldn't care anymore.

He wanted it. The thing that pisses me off about it is there was no decent followup. I mean if you're gonna have Finn get raped I can get on board, but I want it to have a significant effect on him. Also I'd be interested to see how Finn's relationship with LSP changed as a result. I mean if you're gonna go drama I want to see drama. Or did that happen and I missed it?

as for your regular question, some of the writers changed, and a few of the others "matured" into stick-up-their asses artsy douchebags who think they're too cool for fun, and as a result put zero effort into writing jokes that are both silly and actually clever.

>Even in elements with that PB scene even though they keep piledriving it into the ground they dig it up for some reason.
The show has literally always been consistent about Finn's unfaltering love for Bubblegum. Even when he was with FP he seemed to be totally into PB considering that as soon as he thought they broke up he went back to try humping Bubblegum's leg. They never piledrived that into the ground and I saw them bringing it up again as finally cementing that though he loves her his happy place is enjoying her friendship, which is tragic in a way but shows that he's moved in a form.

Just because Finn likes PB doesn't mean the relationship will happen, people don't seem to get this even though the show has been repeating it for like 5 years.

>"that road you're on leads to nowhere"
>"Sparkling eye scene in Pajama War"
>PB's look in Don't Look
>"Wizard Steps"
>Elements Fire PB scene
>Burnling Low/Incendium titlecard
They keep playing Ping Pong on whether he's over her or not. They're definitely gonna do something with the two of them together to resolve all this before the series ends.

Even after all this, it still feels like PB is on a way higher level than him and not nearly on equal-ish footing in terms of interaction. Not saying it'll be romantic like thinks

bleh. more levelheadedness and skill when in tight situations is what desire now that all the love BS is done with for the most part now. Not saying he should be an ultra badass that kicks the shit outta the Lich, but more experienced.
>me

how upset will you be if she does bang him tho

I hate Ignition Point so much. That was definitely written by somebody who's scared of grills and wants as little to do with them as possible.

FP came along and from the onwards to the end of S6 it just continued to get more dull. Stakes was okay but it came in too late to bring back the original charm, and added way too much lore besides.

I don't think LSP actually raped him. I got the impression that it was just an intense make-out session. Metaphorically, I guess it's analogous to rape, to show how far Finn had become corrupted or whatever.

I hate bubbline because it's the reason Marcy doesn't hang out with Finn anymore

AT has disappointed me so many times that it can't make me mad anymore but that has the potential of being the single most retarded thing the show ever does.

I don't think it will happen, but if it does happen it will be morbidly funny to see AT piss away so many years of goodwill.

I mean, you're right and I agree that at this point Finn really should be a few levels of badass above where he is, but I think the reasons for how he was in Elementals were fine.

Sadly we'll at most see the dream cool older Finn in the last episode of the show. AT is just too terrified to touch it. I can understand it but it's still lame.

Though perhaps a blessing because they probably can't do peak Finn justice.

submit to us user

I guess this is just cause he was the father's monster baby (or was that germaine)

He's never going to be completely over her. That's not how it works. But he's reached a point where he can be happy just being her friend as said, so he's definitely come a long way. Their interactions actually have been on pretty equal footing since Pajama War and season 7.

That graphic novel came out right after the breakup, didn't it?

Made it hurt so much more.

I think it's stupid and sort of unhealthy but power to you if you still ship them.
You're like the equivalent of an organism that can survive a nuclear bombing if you're still around after the years and years of the show sitting on that couple.

meant for

"Daddy why did you eat my fries" was okay

The lesbian teasing stuff was handled clumsily both by writers and fans

Backstory with Ice King completely defanged her as did Ice King being Simon

"the girl" is the creator/showrunner of SU

But I don't know how true this is because Sugar wrote only her first episode and then left.

I think it was like 3 months before the breakup. Was certainly poor timing.
>FP's part where she issues that heartfelt "I LOVE HIM" part
>then a few weeks later he shits on her life so he can jizz in his pants
So much for tru luv right
Poor girl, and poor Finn for the writers sabotaging him

Jake was the monster baby.

Sugar wrote every FP episode until Ignition Point, she was doing other stuff after that then soon left.

I get the impression that FP was her personal creation and Sugar was the one mostly pushing her as a new girlfriend for Finn since PB was mostly out of reach by then.

I know the dude who wrote it wanted it to be kissing in the literal, and 'sex' only as a metaphor, but it was portrayed as such a heavy thing. Making out until it's dark and falling asleep together? Getting so traumatized by making out that you have a vision? Shit's weird man.

>to show how far Finn had become corrupted
that's sad that they'd want to make that point. all he wanted was some love. it ain't wrong.

Anyone who doesn't think something went wrong is either forgetting or is too new to remember that this show was once so popular it had a constant drawthread just for AT up on Sup Forums.

>Sugar ruined AT
>Sugar ruined SU

Really makes you think

>Be happy while your crush smooches all over someone else in your presence
>Date another girl but it never feels right because she'll always be the one for you
>die in agonizing complacency and be reincarnated as their child
JUST

I appreciate how much torture they're willing to put the lad through but the lack of meaningful change that comes from them ruin it. At most the big shit that happesn to him mean he will be slightly more or less mopey the next dozen episodes, if that.

AT's view on adulthood demonstrated through Finn seems to be
>Being a kid is the fucking best, hypest thing ever
>Being a young teen is a literal hell where you're a piece of shit and suck and bad things happen to you because you deserve it
>Being a slightly older teen is pretty okay but you only reach this point if you're tough enough to survive the young teen death march

What the hell man, give the boy a break.

dammit I meant agonizing discontentment

>it ain't wrong.
What was wrong is he thought kissing a bunch of girls would make him happy, but it was superficial. It took genuine passion from Breezy for Finn and Finn for PB to reignite the spark within him.

What the fuck, that is really damn weird. Is Finn such a cuck that the universe sees fit to make him come back to life a the offspring of his dream girl and her bull? That's fucking weird and sort of gross.

Also why the hell is Davey there, they must have really been reaching for alt Finns huh.

I'm pretty sure younger Finn would absolutely maul older Finn in a battle.

I fucking told you the writers hate him

Or has a different opinion.

In that universe, Davey is a pre-mushroom war life that Finn had

I swing back and forth a lot on modern AT, at times I'll be totally cool with it then other times I'll think it systematically ruined every good thing about the old show.

At the very least I feel like Finn's been satisfactory for a while now, feels like instead of jerking themselves off over how mature he is they finally started writing him as being fucking mature. It's nice, I loved him these past two miniseries and hope he's still good into the end of the show.

What confuses me about it is why would people with such a dim view of being a teenager/adult want to write about that instead of more of the fantasy adventures of child-Finn the superhero? Did they do it for street cred? Ratings?

The comic writers are different from the show, the cuck infection is spreading. Soon there will be a sidequest in a new AT game where you have to get a bottle of water for Bubblegum so she and Marceline can continue wrestling in their private room that no Finn of course you aren't allowed in, it's for grownups only silly.

>he thought kissing a bunch of girls would make him happy
hell man, for a guy as starved as he is, it might.

It was a little much to drop this whole
>sex won't heal the hole in your soul
business on a 14-16 year old virgin kid.

I never got into the show. never liked the humor of the show. I did like that card game episode tho

I always see the AT writers as screwing up because of incompetence and not malice. They seem like people who are too decent to do shit like this on purpose.

There are little things like Wolfhard saying he thought it was funny when Finn looked like a clumsy idiot but I think that's too little evidence to show that they're putting Finn through this because they don't like him/young men.

They're trying to show the hardships of youth and that shit but accidentally making it look really werid, and Finn takes way too long to better himself as a person after these experiences.

Just because it's different from the pilot doesn't mean its bad. I think the surreal elements of the show work with a more grounded tone and just because it isn't a random meme fest doesn't make it bad, I still love it and it will always be one of my favourite cartoons.

>Date another girl but it never feels right because she'll always be the one for you
But Finn was totally willing to move on several times. Puhoy, HW before she ruined it because she's weird.

Even if he's thinking "I wish I was pounding Bubblegum right now" in the back of his head every time they do it doesn't mean that he can't get a happy ending with a different person. Hell, one of the best ways Finn can move on as an adult who knows his shit is to realize that PB is sort of a bad person and their personalities would never match enough for them to have a satisfying relationship. There's hope for him yet.

>Davey
>reincarnation

That episode felt like the writers were lazing around more than usual

>But Finn was totally willing to move on several times. Puhoy, HW before she ruined it because she's weird.
nah senpai those were temporary flings to get his mind off the pain that is not having PB

he'll want to get laffy with her taffy until the day he croaks. only hope is that marcy's a flinger