Dude fuck capitalism lmao

dude fuck capitalism lmao

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i kinda liked how it gave you a glimpse into what really happened and all these fucked up people that wanted credits knowing that they can't pay them back ever.

michael lewis is legit this movie has some pretty good performances.

only annoying part is the "lol ur too dumb to understand economics" 4th wall breaking scenes with dumb women explaining shit.

Devin "Rapist" Faraci wrote a review of this movie, where he implored his readers to remember the most important take away from the film - this wasn't "capitalism" - it was White Males.

The director was a fan of this interpretation.

Mind you, if you point out that it was mostly Jewish Males, yo would be a bigot and immediately banned from whatever platform they were circle jerking each other on.

t.incel

i legitimately thought benicio del toro was in it before i saw it

this

That wasn't the point of the film. The film was about how greedy the banks were. They knew the system would fall and that the government would bail them out. At no point in the film do any of the characters express any desire to distribute the wealth they made to the people.

I'm an actual investment banker.

This movie is entertaining but it is, above all, a populist distortion

Bankers are the new lawyers and its easy to hate us. Just know that we contribute far more to the economy than the average labourer

the chad 'villain' gym bag guy from USS Callister has a small role

But that never actually happened. After all, Bear and Lehman still went under. There was no secret Jew banker cabal that was negotiating with the government in advance. The crisis was an accident caused by imprudence in risk management and financial engineering and driven by risk mispricing due to market failure in the credit rating industry.

It was not anyone's fault. It happened. We're past it and have some new rules to make sure it doesn't happen again.

People need to stop blaming bankers for everything.

Is it capitalism when you bet on the outcome of a bet? I thought that wealth was supposed to accumulate gradually and the end goal was personal property ownership.

If you can't be bothered to actually pay attention to what the movie was saying, then why comment? Oh, that's right. This is Sup Forums, where insight and intelligence come to die.

>t. jew banker

I'm not saying they caused it. I'm saying, and they mention it in the film as well, that they knew it was going to happen and did nothing.

>it was an accident
Nigger they made it happen. Now they either made it happen because they're incompetent or they made it happen because they knew they would be bailed out and they didn't care what happens to everyone else.
No shit some of them didn't get bailed and fell apart. Most didn't though, it was worth it in the end for them.

drumpf got rid of those rules though so we're just going to repeat it again within the next decade

Thanks for the upcoming racial/environmental Mad Max dystopia your system is creating.

Not anyone's fault? Do you mean that it wasn't any one person's fault? You might be correct there, but there were plenty of people at fault. There were loads of people who were looking to make a quick buck and they didn't care what they had to do to get it.

>Loosen up lending practices so people with no credit or bad credit could purchase homes with no money down, adjustable rates, and interest-only payments for 2 years (with the hope that they'll refinance in 2 years for an even larger loan, since home values were increasing, and start the process all over again)? Sure! That sounds like a responsible plan!
>Fill bonds with these shoddy assets and sell them off as AAA to unsuspecting consumers? Can do!
>Create derivatives that repackage many of the worst bonds into new bonds that are worse than the originals and sell them off? Why not!
>Repeat this process over and over, create a housing bubble where new homes are being built, purchased, but not lived in, and continue to block any inquiries into your practices? Well that's a must!
>Create a system of assets that are so convoluted and vaguely defined that there's no way to determine the true value of anything? That sounds like a winner of a plan!
>But hey, it's not our fault that it all went bust and over 5 trillion dollars in things like pension funds disappeared. How were we to know that it couldn't go on forever? We're only supposed to be the best at all of this stuff!

Absolutely hated this film

Beyond this it tried to do too much, with too many characters, and ended up being arrogant, superficial and messy

The constant fourth wall breaking also felt like a cheap trick, like "lol we're on your side! really! I'm talking directly to you!" but the whole experience was designed to make people feel that finance is this huge and complex institution that you're too stupid to understand or try to change

>There was no secret Jew banker cabal that was negotiating with the government in advance.

>The biggest offenders were Bear and Stearn, Goldman Sachs, and Lehman Brothers

Literally the opposite of what you're saying happened.

I viewed those breaks as necessary. There was a quick throwaway line early on in the movie where one of the guys checks an index (the name escapes me at the moment) and one of his coworkers asks him what that is. I find it doubtful that someone in that line of work wouldn't know what a certain general index was. He wasn't asking that question for himself, but rather he was asking it for those of us who wouldn't know the significance of what was being checked. I viewed the cut-scenes as a quick way to dump a lot of exposition onto the viewer without having it come out of a character's mouth. Is Mark Baum going to have to explain CDOs and Credit Default Swaps to his employees? No. But Margot Robbie in a bubble bath, or Selena Gomez playing blackjack could get the point across without really taking us out of the movie. We wouldn't have to ask why guys who make trades worth hundreds of millions of dollars don't know what a CDO consists of (even if we don't know what it is, we assume that a professional in that field should have some vague idea at the very least).

current finance is too huge for anyone to change except from a collapse of government itself.
i thought it was decent as a film about 3 different teams making money off a flaw in the market.
as a lesson about finance i agree it was a little too preachy and not enough to the point.

>Timing the market: the movie

"No"

Yeah, t. Jew banker. Fuck you faggot, I work more in one week than you do in a month.

They did not realize until very late. The film Margin Call shows it a bit better. When they internally realized that they had mispriced risked, they shut down the buying half of their market-making operations.

In the context of a normal trade you might think this is ethically dubious, but these are capital markets. No private information was used to make that decision, ergo anyone doing the requisite due diligence could have reached the same conclusions. Hard to blame banks for trying not to fucking get anally impaled by the long line of defaulting debtors.

It was an accident my dude. The financial system is complex and people didn't realize that their financial engineering was bad. Their incentives changed rapidly as new financial instruments were developed; faster than regulation could keep up with it. But those instruments enable capital to flow more freely than ever. You sit around on your little iPhone or your fucking whatever electronic device shitposting on a Javanese animal husbandry forum about banks and capitalism and the global financial system when you don't understand that without the ability to flexibly raise capital and trade capital assets you wouldn't have any of your precious gadgets.

The rating agency failures were an important precedent because they had never failed so catastrophically before. It would be much more difficult for a failure of similar scale to occur today because it would be spotted fairly quickly. Also, financial engineering has become significantly more robust. And even further, Jerome Powell (new Fed nigga) is not hyper-libertarian on regulations. He favors scrapping the Dodd-Frank regulations that hurt small banks which is actually seen as a good idea by most economists. He's still in favor of capital requirements, stress-testing, greater supervision, etc. These things will stay.

yea it would have been better than what margin call did, which was for the boss to ask the subordinate what is happening "in english please" 4 times

Its the story of how the autistic weirdos who everybody wrote off as loser saw where things were heading and made a fuck load of money on it
No matter what everyone said the bullshit eventually crashed, and the free market lets whoever rightfully called it out make money
Thats the good part of capitalism the book and movie defends
Its also the story of how people who had no idea what they were doing fucked up everything and still made a lot of money
Also people who did not know what they were doing losing all their money and some people had nothing to do with it losing their money
That the shitty part. But the difference is capitalism allowed some people to make money who worked for it and deserved it, whereas every other system just will reward the incompetent and let everyone else suffer until collapse

reading you tards trying to discuss finance let alone how Lewis phrased it in the book is laughable.

Stick to your lazer swords and capeshits you uneducated unread retards

also checkem

you are either dumb or swallowed the kool aid.
banks were shorting their own assets towards the end of the bubble. they knew it was a pile of shit.

I would love to see how long a skyscraper building would hold up that bankers built.

It is funny to see how white collar workers get egos when they have decent bank accounts and how that makes them feel better then every one else.

But if you really felt you were better... why do you spend all your money on nice things, who are you trying to impress? Yourself or the dumb girl who will use you?

Blue collar workers dont envy you....

This guy knows his shit

>imprudence in risk management and financial engineering and driven by risk mispricing due to market failure in the credit rating industry

10/10 purple prose right there man. Sentence reads the same if you just replace all that shit with "greed and (willful) incompetence".

t. friend of bank poster who was called by insecure banker and said help I am getting called out by autists who dont idol worship me because of muh fancy dress suits.

What did he mean by this? You are locked in an echo chamber telling yourself that you are at the vanguard of the white race in some massive culture war. You're just a bunch of retarded kids who have been exposed to the internet too much and indoctrinated into right and left-wing narratives. Nothing new is happening, the only difference is that 30 years ago you'd be outside having sex and working instead of going on Sup Forums or tumblr and being fed extremism.

The bonds were rated triple A by the rating agencies. They failed because of incentive conflicts and a lack of extreme prior risk mispricing episodes to serve as a benchmark.

Sold to unsuspecting consumers? Do you know who holds financial assets, my nigga? It's not like fucking mom and pops bought mortgage backed securities. These were bought by fund managers - people who are paid millions of dollars to spend their entire life studying what securities to purchase. The fact that they didn't spot it either implies a systemic failure of financial engineering. It happened. It's unfortunate. We're past it now and we've learned some lessons.

The movie creates a narrative where there isn't one in real life. It's convenient to scapegoat the financial services industry for the crisis, especially when the ACTUAL answer is that nobody is truly, really, morally at fault for the crisis. Who do you blame for a traffic jam? Right now this movie and other populist stories are telling you to honk at the guy in front of you. I'm the guy saying that it's nobodys fault in particular and the best we can do is improve the entire system so that traffic jams don't happen as often and they're not as bad.

Someone post the edit.

DUDE
STEVE CARELL TRYING TO PLAY A SERIOUS ROLE
..STILL LMAO

Is it a "fuck capitalism" movie, or does it simply point out some flaws with capitalism (since no system can be 100% perfect)? I haven't had the chance to see this yet, and some people think any critique = someone thinking it should be completely done away with.

>Populist distortion
You aren't the new lawyer
Lawyers are at least able to keep their firm going
Investment bankers now are like what would happen if the family firms were given to the cousin in prison
Something that had been around for 150 years would be gone in a few months
Earn respect back to your trade before bemoaning people disliking you

its style is more like a heist movie, but i suppose most financial themed movies are basically heist movies.
obviously it dramatises the events a fair bit. i thinm steve carrells character realises making millions of dollars off a market crash isnt a virtuous effort. the autistic trader guy also realises there are no friends in the business

Ok. This was one of the things in the movie that was really misportrayed so I'll do my best to explain it here.

Market making is an activity where a financial institution provides liquidity to a security marketplace by simultaneously offering to buy and sell it at a certain price, always. Thus as the market moves and prices move, they make a profit by always offering to sell at higher rate than they offer to buy. This is something that is very good and keeps volatility low and liquidity high.

Now, what happened in the crisis is that when they realized that their financial engineering was flawed due to subprime delinquencies, lender failures, etc. the banks running market making operations on these securities realized that they do not want to hold any sort of long position in this security. Ergo, they shorted it. Because they want to profit if it goes down, which they think it will.

But they're still a market maker. They will still sell at the same price as before. They may stop buying if they want to get rid of an existing long position.

There's nothing wrong with any of that. There is no conflict of interest or fundamental information asymmetry. You can't force the bank to behave in a way that would hurt itself just because it would protect other investors. The bank has the right to operate in a way that ensures its own survival as long as it does not violate the law. That is how capital markets work. These are principals that keep them robust and vibrant and that enable the modern economy.

I don't spend all my money on nice things. Dude, it is actually fucking perverted how people think of bankers. Bankers are normal people my man, lots of nerdy white/asian/brown guys that went to good schools and want to do something cool and rewarding. I like going out to nice places with my gf sometimes but I don't spend like a fucking fiend. I haven't bought a new computer in 5 years and I play video games all the time. I run CSGO on 480p .

igmchicago.org/surveys-special/factors-contributing-to-the-2008-global-financial-crisis

Your ignorance of finance and economics != me being obfuscatory

Do you even know what an investment banker does? I implore you to tell me. Don't cheat, don't google it. Tell me what an investment banker does, right here, right now. Before you shit all over my profession and the thousands of other decent guys who work as investment bankers across the world, I just want you to tell me in a sentence or two what an investment banker does.

>banks do it all the time they calculatingly are out to make money
>it was all a big mistake
so pick one faget

>A systemic wide failure of incentives that was predictable since at least the 80s does not involve any moral culpability
>An industry whose entire purpose is to manage other peoples money does not have a moral obligation to fully understand what they are investing in
>We are the scapegoat despite are of all behavior now continuing because of public bail outs. Why would large amounts of people consider us morally blameworthy for failing to do our job well, the most basic moral task every person does every day?
>Public funds have now created an even worse moral hazard there ever before
Yes the failure was systemic and not one person was to blame. But it is a very loose sense of morality to say nobody was truly at fault or to blame

That's stupid. If a building is on fire because it got struck by lightning, is the guy trying to salvage his belongings from the second floor to blame?

This movie is pro-capitalism. You're retarded if you saw this movie and you still don't know how to get rich off the next crash.

Raise capital for other institutions often by bringing them public

>timing the market

"No"

if he built the conductor and threw his neighbours flammable belongings on the roof yea

It was hardly predictable my dude. Lack of precedents and a very different bubble a decade prior made it so. There was only one significant paper suggesting anything even close to what happened (nber.org/papers/w11728.pdf) - it was released just 2 years before the crisis and did not elucidate upon the actual specific financial instruments involved and how a potential crisis could be averted. Kind of like predicting rain without saying when or how much.

And why would they have a moral obligation to fully understand what they are investing in? That's the point of a free market. People move to fund managers that put in more effort and are better at picking winners. Turns out most fund managers are shit at that, which is why passive investing is so big now. There's no need for a 'moral obligation'. The free market is resolving this and making people better off.

Ultimately it's easy to blame bankers but they were doing their jobs just as anyone else would. I can't believe people chastise bankers like they're fucking Satan's minions for a crisis they didn't and could not forsee yet nobody gives automobile manufacturers nearly as much shit for literally knowingly cheating on emissions tests or tech firms for any number of duplicitous underhanded shit they pull on the everyman consumer.

Ok. And this is happening more than ever. There has been an explosion in capital markets recently, deal activity is steadily growing, etc. etc.

My 'trade' is doing what it needs to do.

ok you sound like a decent person.

...

I said the moral obligation comes in when you are investing other peoples money
And the moral obligation to do your job is a very serious one that under pins a well functioning economy
I was talking about predictable bad results of the incentive structures that had been developing since the 80s but if you want to talk about predicting the crash there are a lot more than just that
What happened with savings and loans in general was a very good indicator
And this entire story is about some of the guys who called it and set up the entire market banking on its failure

lmao kys

>not being all in on crypto
why does Sup Forums hate money?

Thank you. I think the big problem is that the media bankers consume and inform is so segregated from the media most others consume that its difficult for them to rehabilitate their image in the public eye.

go to bloomberg.com for instance.

This is what bankers read. They read it on a very specialized computer, but this is the gist of it. It's a bunch of technical highly specific stories that are relevant to their interests.

Bankers are nerds at the end of the day. Kids with a good sense of arithmetic and a hard work ethic.

Back in high school I was one of the top physics students nationally. Another one of my banker friends used to build lasers in his spare time.

Multiple of us go to Melee tournaments on a semi-regular basis. bankers r peepl yo

i JUST watched this yesterday, what a horrible fucking movie.

its kino and u no it

I don't think we're seeing eye to eye here. The bankers did their jobs to the best of their ability. Banks provide a service just like any other firm and in the free market if someone provides an inferior service, they are outcompeted. There is no need for a 'moral obligation'. It's all settled by typical competition.

It's easy to retroactively say that incentive structures were made more perverse through the introduction of derivatives, deregulation, etc. but you have to keep in mind that deregulation was important in moving the US out of shitty pre-1980 economic conditions and into a more competitive future. This is another debate entirely on economics that I don't want to get into, but all in all it's not as easy as you think to just know in advance that there would be a catastrophic failure due to incentive structure changes. Especially because things changed rapidly throughout the 90s cuz internet and whatnot.

The S&L crisis had very different macroeconomic causes and was similarly difficult to predict.

Sure
Just dont bemoan a lack of respect when less than a decade ago every respectable firm some existing for over century either collapsed or needs to be fire saled/bailed out
Thats a huge taint on your industry, one that takes a long time to go away.
If ten percent of fast food employees just simply did not wash their hands or understand they needed to, they would have an even bigger stigma then they already do. Especially if a large disease spread because of it. Would there be thousands of good ones who did the right thing? Sure.
Maybe its not fair but thats life

just as well the us isnt a free market

I'm trying to find that dumbass scene of Carrell running around screaming ITS A SHORT ITS A SHORT but no luck

totally funny

>It's a Big Short for you!
What did he mean by this?

Other industries have had massive failures too. The reason banks were bailed out is because raising capital is a vital part of a modern developed economy and they were needed to do that. That's just the way it is.

No its easy to say
>Increasingly allowing banks to behave in a manner that encouraged growth beyond anything because they would be bailed out
>One of the most basic forms of moral hazard
>Having firms start to structure in a way that rewards in the short term encouraging traders not to care about the long term well being of almost anything
>And allowing blatant exceptions to free market attempts to root out inferior service if not rewarding it
Is a predictable failure. And with this systemic set of problems typical competition roots out almost nothing.

kek

bootlicking faggot

>if the taxpayers don't bail out bad investments then there'll be no good investments :^)
>can you imagine how horrible it'd be if risk weren't subsidized while rewards were privitized?

i don't personally give a shit, but don't tell the public to blow you while you take their money

>its a free market and bad banks should get outcompeted
>bailouts is just how it is
pick one

And people will dislike you for those failures and even less for having large parts of public money to salvage those
That is also just the way it is

Not that guy but
>nobody is at fault
What
There are many clear examples of fault
The credit rating companies for example. And they were fined for it. Some banks like Goldman Sachs knew the securities they were selling were shit and took out huge shorts against them. They were fined for it too. Lehman Brothers also committed accounting fraud.

>It happened. It's unfortunate. We're past it now and we've learned some lessons.

The fuck are you talking about? The US Department of Justice threw the book at Deutsche Bank for trying to pull exactly the same shit with mortgage backed securities in September of this year.

It should never have taken a genius to figure out that handing out NINA loans like candy and packing securities with that dogshit was a terrible fucking idea.

>The reason banks were bailed out is because raising capital is a vital part of a modern developed economy and they were needed to do that.

>Just know that we contribute far more to the economy than the average labourer

Yeah the institutionalized fraud is great for the average person, artificially siphoning wealth away from the part of society that actually contributes everything. People hate bankers because the modern fractional reserve system doesn't do anything. It just pays itself while making everyone else work more than they should be.

Little did we know there are hundreds of financial investors on Sup Forums that were in all hiding until this thread

this, brad pitt was pretty cool too

>I'm an actual investment banker.

Trading bitcoins isn't investment banking /biz/ wanker

>Is it a "fuck capitalism" movie

Considering the original book was very pro capitalism and this movie does everything it can to be the exact opposite, I would say yes.

>implying the libtards didn't know exactly what they were creating when they came up with sub-prime mortgaging

Delusional.

>Bankers are the new lawyers
>new

There are stories in the Bible about fucking bankers. It is hardly a new phenomenon.

>No opposing forces in which unsustainable entities become extinct
>Free Market

Kill yourself Commie

This. Bitches has no business explain me anything.

You keep telling that shit to each other.

>It was not anyone's fault. It happened.
This is your brain on psychopathy.