Which shitty Iron Man clone was better?

Which shitty Iron Man clone was better?

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honestly dead even

Obsessed

Doctor Strange by a mile.

I still don't understand why a shitty movie like Ant Man gets as much praise as it does. It's Green Lantern levels of bad.

Strange, but I loved both

Both sucks and a waste of money

Ant-Man was nothing special, but still leagues better than Doctor Cliche

Also

About the same level. They were both super generic and felt like blatant filler for their universe they're building.

Ant-Man stuck with me more. Was a lot better than it had any right being.

Rudd's more likable and the comedy is less forced.

People need to stop calling Ant-Man an Iron Man clone because NOTHING about it was even close to Iron Man's story.
And yes, Ant-Man is better. Doctor Strange was pretty bland.

I enjoyed both equally.

Ant-Man had nice humor and an awesome suit. The cast was also good: Evangeline Lilly, Paul Rudd, Corey Stoll and Michael Douglas.

Doctor Strange had great visuals, but the cast was flatter. Cumberbatch was good though.

>tfw Ant-man and Dr. Strange where the 2 movies I was the most excited for way back when they were first announced
>They're good on the first viewing but after a second I see they have no rewatch value

I liked both, Ant-Man more than Strange. Didn't really see them as Iron Man copies.
But the MCU formula is pretty telling.

Ant Man had better character moments, but Dr. Strange was a better story.

Antman hands down. The humor wasn't forced and Paul Rudd is way more likable than Benedict cumberbatch

How the fuck was Ant-Man an Iron Man clone?

>People need to stop calling Ant-Man an Iron Man clone because NOTHING about it was even close to Iron Man's story.
where are they even getting that idea from? It works more like a torch passing story where a new person takes up the reigns of an important Job. Also nothing about Scott was like Tony, he wasn't some ego driven blowhard playboy. He was a father that had more heart then brains and got him self in jail doing what's right and taking a heist job to earn money to see his daughter. How do you look at that and go "this is just like Iron man"

it's the suit. I'm not shitting you people are dumb and just judge the film on the posters and shit without actually watching it.

>Ant Man
>ANYTHING like Iron Man

Also, personal opinion but the heist framework breathed a ton of new life into a formula that was getting really fucking stale. I think Ant-Man is easily in the top 3 Marvel movies.

Ant-Man had one of the catchier MCU themes songs. Man I was so pissed about old man Pym, Edgar Wright exiting the project, etc. Very excited for Ant-Man and the Wasp.

>They're good on the first viewing but after a second I see they have no rewatch value
Literally every MCU movie outside of Winter Soldier, user.

Dr. Strange I'll give you, but Ant-man?
>only MCU film with a memorable score that isn't just background noise.
>only MCU hero that has a family/kid
>one of the few MCU films that had a fight that was more than kunfu and/or explosions
>best use of a ridiculous power set, even plays it straight
>the least loaded on qips and play on word gags
>the villain is actually an unstable evil bastard that isn't directly tied to the hero
>best Chinese whispers/ telephone gag in a long time.

It's a fantastic film that holds it's own and breaks a good pile of rules that get played to death in action films.

this

I found Winter Soldier the most like that. It just has great action choreographing which is fun and all but if that's all it takes to wow you then shit man you must love the Furious series.

Both were good. KYS.

the villain was just like an iron man villain, other than that it wasn't very similar

>What is Iron Man 1

Ant Man because it actually tried to be unique instead of wasting the most interesting aspect of the Marvel Universe with "hey did you watch Inception? us too!".

They're both the same "self centered asshole and/or misfit becomes a hero and fights a one dimensional F list villain because we're Marvel and we can't into villains" bullshit, but Ant-Man was better

>only MCU film with a memorable score that isn't just background noise.
Cannot remember the score for the life of me.

>only MCU hero that has a family/kid
Hawkeye.

>best use of a ridiculous power set, even plays it straight
>plays it straight
Le funneh Thomas the tank engine climax. Le "can I change my name?" self flaggellation for public acceptance.

>the villain is actually an unstable evil bastard
Stane. Red Skull. Loki. Abomination. Ronin.

>that isn't directly tied to the hero
Ronin isn't tied to Peter Quill.

>best Chinese whispers/ telephone gag in a long time.
Not an argument.

Ant-Man had a good villian. Not the best, but better than Ultron and nowhere near Dark Elf tier.

Best cape movie villain was Francis because of how perfect a foil/motivation he was for Wade, but that's not MCU.

Loki, Stane, Abomination and Red Skull didn't have the visibly unstable presence that this guy had though. They were assholes stated to be insane.

>the villain was just like an iron man villain
>Obadiah Stane was a power/money greedy asshole that wanted to keep his weapons empire that Tony was shaking apart with his prodigal son shtick
>Vanko was a poor born man seeking revenge for what the Stark family did to his family
>Killian had the biggest ass hate bonner for Stark shaming him that he went global evil

>Darren Cross was Pym's understudy that hated both how little he was trusted and respected with the truth because Cross is a brilliant scientist, who is not ethically pure, all the while just trying to prove he is just as smart/smarter than Pym to the point he poison his mind with the particles thus going mad and making an alliance with Hydra for funding and more data on the elusive Ant-man coverup.

It's a stretch at best user.

>only MCU film with a memorable score that isn't just background noise.

Winter Soldier

>only MCU hero that has a family/kid

Hawkeye

>one of the few MCU films that had a fight that was more than kunfu and/or explosions

D. Strange, Guardians

>best use of a ridiculous power set, even plays it straight

arguably Dr. Strange had better set pieces

>the least loaded on qips and play on word gags

Captain America is still the reigning champion here

>the villain is actually an unstable evil bastard that isn't directly tied to the hero

Ronan, Red Skull

>best Chinese whispers/ telephone gag in a long time.

this is true

they're both bald rich businessmen who build a more powerful version of the hero's suit because they were jealous

Ant Man looked amazing and worked as a pretty good Ultron movie. If Edgar Wright had stayed the movie would probably be my second favorite MCU movie.

Not user but the main theme is rather catchy
youtube.com/watch?v=O_5NwVy8L5M

>Also, personal opinion but the heist framework breathed a ton of new life into a formula that was getting really fucking stale

This right here, I majorly enjoyed the moral greyness of how the villain was completely legally legit, while the heroes were breaking the law. It really was as much of a heist movie as a superhero one, maybe moreso.

>Not an argument
Do you take every post here as some fight?

>the villain was completely legally legit
>murders a guy for being skeptical
>has business deals with international terrorist organization

Also couldn't Pym have stopped him by patenting the Pym particle before Cross was able to make it?

Cross isn't a businessman. He was an entomologist, and physicist.
and he wasn't fueled to make the suit out of jealousy, he admitted as much twice that it was to bait out his old mentor for keeping secrets.
If anything Cross had daddy issues with Pym.

Ant-Man

>He was an entomologist, and physicist.

he also owned a company

>and he wasn't fueled to make the suit out of jealousy, he admitted as much twice that it was to bait out his old mentor for keeping secrets.

Why would he give a shit about those secrets unless he was jealous?

Cross has done nothing wrong in the public's eye

>Also couldn't Pym have stopped him by patenting the Pym particle before Cross was able to make it?

He did but not for shrinking people and shit. That was why he had a freak out at the YJ suit, he couldn't stop cross because he was fighting to keep that from existing. To patent the human formula would have made all Pyms fears happen much sooner because that would confirm it was possible to shrink people too.

>murders a guy for being skeptical

Whose going to prove it.

>has business deals with international terrorist organization

He dealt with representatives that all had legal covers, probably wasn't anyone that even knew who they really were.

I'm not justifying him, lots of really horrible people in the real world do terrible things without technically breaking the law, or at least not getting caught. Just pointing out that in the context of the movie, he was totally clean. The cops wouldn't have looked twice at him.

I haven't seen Doctor Strange more than once but I'm sure the second viewing would be pretty dull. That being said, I prefer it vastly over Ant-Man.

Ant-Man definitely had positive factors. I liked the score, it had decent cinematography, smug as villain, the wacky mexican dude, Ant-Man's powers properly being utilized but all this was over shadowed still by the stuff that I didn't like.

First and foremost, FUCK the MCU for not making my boi, Hank motherfucking Pym, a founding member of the Avengers AND THEN denying him from even being Ant-Man. This is one of the most egregious sins of the cinematic universe. Sure, he's the still the creator of the suit and was technically Ant-Man at one point but it feels so cheap. Not to mention, fucking over Ultron's origins and making him less interesting overall.

The most painful thing about Ant-Man though is the dialogue/character motivations. Oh my god, every line of dialogue from almost every character makes me cringe so hard. Rudd rarely had a line that was remotely funny. And his dialogue in Civil War? OH MY GOOOOOOD.

I just can't believe how bad they FUCKED up Ant-Man.

>he also owned a company
that doesn't make him a businesses man. You can own a lot of things and be a shareholder of things you have no understanding of running. It's actually a major flaw in a lot of media and science companies in the western world.

>Why would he give a shit about those secrets unless he was jealous?

You have a very short sighted mind. That or you are taking jealous in a very broad and stretched way that ruins the definition of it.

He felt betrayed. He look up to Pym, even called him a father figure, he even states that everything he did up to that point was for him, but he was angry because Hank would not trust him, that Hank would not share the truth with him. He wasn't jealous, he was hurt and felt betrayed that the man that taught him everything he knew and work side by side with for two decades refused to open up and share these amazing findings of science with him. His drive wasn't to make something better, as he gloated near the end he just wanted to hurt him because his work he tried so hard to hide from the world was going to given away to the highest bidder.

Ant-Man for sure. It was just way more fun.

>The most painful thing about Ant-Man though is the dialogue/character motivations
He acts just like Scott
Scott has been Ant-man in the comics way longer than Hank. Also many of your issues have more to do with narratives that don't relate to the film. I just don't get you people sometimes.

Honestly I'm grateful for what we got, there was a huge amount of disaster potential for this movie to be a complete fuck up, and I know a lot of people here expected it to be bad.

>that doesn't make him a businesses man

What about the fact that he also arranged sales, pitched products, and brags about how his leadership is going to bring in so much more money for the company?

>as he gloated near the end he just wanted to hurt him because his work he tried so hard to hide from the world was going to given away to the highest bidder.

Sounds like you're describing a jealous person to me. Non-jealous people don't try to do that to other people

Ant man had a better cast.

>Whose going to prove it.

ok then, Pym and his whole plan of stealing the suit and imploding the building was completely legally legit too because who is going to prove he did it?

>What about the fact that he also arranged sales, pitched products, and brags about how his leadership is going to bring in so much more money for the company?
You have never been in research fields have you? Grant money and what not is a very needed part of the funding. I'll meet you half way and say that business skills are needed to be successful in science but even in Crosses case he cared more about the projects than the money it made him

>sounds like you're describing a jealous person to me
So you are admitting then you are just butchering the word? Because Cross never cared that Pym was "smarter" again, he had daddy issues, Pym never look at him as a true heir to the Pym particles.

>ant-man
>iron man clone

Are you from Sup Forums?

>I'll meet you half way and say that business skills are needed to be successful in science

so if he had business skills and owned a business what does that make him?


>Because Cross never cared that Pym was "smarter"

You're the one butchering the word. No one has to be smarter than you for you to be jealous. If someone has something you want, and you get so mad over not having it that you want to hurt that person, that's jealousy

At this point I feel like you are just full (You)s to keep the thread going. Cross wasn't jealous OP, mad, and angry? Sure, but nothing in his behavior was a form or feeling of envy.

>person has X
>get mad that you don't have X
>become a villain

that's like the blueprint for the jealous villain archetype, only in this case the X is the secret of the pym particle

I would say that both Gotg have rewatch value

also I'm not OP

Ant-man had a reason to be funny, I mean the name of the movie is silly and they knew that.

Doctor Strange had no fucking business having so many quips and comedy, most of it was "decent" but at this point it's like I'm watching the same fucking character with different backstories in all movies
>Starlord
>Rocket
>Tony
>Ant Man
>Doctor Strange
>Spiderman
All le epic quipgod bantmaster, fucking stop, Marvel.

>Ant-Man had a good villian. Not the best, but better than Ultron and nowhere near Dark Elf tier.
I woudln't agree that he was particularly good, but I will agree with the former part of your post, he was better than Ultron and not as bad as the gay elf

>Best cape movie villain was Francis
I disagree , pic related for me is tied with Nicholsons Joker

is that the dude from the Crow?

>any origin story is an Iron Man clone

Neat.

>I would say that both Gotg have rewatch value
Haven't seen the second one, but you're absolutely wrong about the first one.

Ant-Man, easily. By far the best origins movie from Marvel, and I was one of those Pymfags deadset on hating it for jumping straight to Lang with the first movie

Same. Dr.Strange was pretty bland. The villain and mentor in ant-man were way better than dr.stranges. Ancient was cool, but stoic bald woman is stoic.... And that Kacellius guy did nothing interesting. Cross had some interesting scenes, especially with Pym and Hope. He was creepy and intense and I genuinely thought maybe he'd turn and not be the villain and some hydra asshole would steal the suit. The movie managed to make me doubt where all the characters would end up. Dr.Strange was pretty predictable.

>there are people still pretending Cross was a good or even memorable villain
>implying Antman wasn't more comedy than anything in the MCU
wut

Doctor Strange is like Iron Man in the most superficial way possible.

But what else should I expect from a Sup Forums thread. I don't even have to look at it to know at least a few retards are saying its all quips when there were a handful of jokes in the whole movie.

Honestly, it basically answers every issue Sup Forums has with the MCU, i.e. great cinematography, fantastic CGI in general, strong performances, few quips/jokes and the villain is defeated in a clever and unique way, but hey, its an arrogant rich guy learning to not be arrogant, so I guess its Iron Man even though the entire moral dilemma of Tony Stark doesn't exist here.

user, I really liked Dr Strange, but oh man did Strange make joke after joke. They weren't quips, sure, but he made so many fucking jokes.

I honestly liked both more than the first Iron Man. I never understood why people hype that movie so much, probably because I never liked Tony Stark's character.

If I had to choose, then Ant Man. Rudd is more likeable as a protagonist than Cucumber.

Ant-Man. Doctor Strange was the worst part of his own movie

I honestly can't even think of any jokes Strange himself made besides the beyonce joke which is literally there to show the only person that finds Strange amusing is Strange.

If you're talking about Wong, he's literally the relief character, so I don't even know what the issue is there. I guess you could complain about the cape scene, but I thought that was fine.

He acts exactly like Iron Man

>0.01 cents have been deposited into your account

/r/marvelstudios you need to go back now.

Nah, Iron Man is a billionaire suave super cool guy. He's arrogant because everyone loves him, everyone wants to be his friend, wants to attend his parties. His superhero persona is completely out in the open because hot damn, his robot suit is fucking cool and he wants you to both think so, and know who is the super cool person who designed it and flies in it. He plasters how much of a hero he and his mates are on the side of a goddamn building.

Tony Stark wants everyone to like him. There's a reason why he falls for Pepper Potts, its because she sees through his bullshit. Everyone thinks he's awesome, but she knows he's a human being underneath all the bravado.

Strange, on the other hand doesn't give a shit if you like him, he just wants you to think he's the smartest man in the room. He's a genius who needs you to know he's a genius.

They're both arrogant, and injuries are what starts them on the road to becoming heroes, but their arrogance is different.

I'm not saying they're especially deep characters or whatever, but if you boil away any nuance and only focus on superficial similarities then of course they're going to appear to be the same character.

>Reddit spacing

Mister Doctor because it's newer

Not an argument, not a thing.

>uhh... excuse me mister nigger
so kennycomix is now a meme?

Antman was clearly a spiderman clone.

you need to go back to r/badtasteinmovies

>all these people complaining about Strange's score
Did you guys even listen to Master of the Mystic? Blows the Ant-Man theme out of the water.
>protagonist and antagonist
Strange is the better protagonist for me, but holy shit did Kaecilus drop the fucking ball as a villain. Should have been Nightmare, Dormammu, OR MAYBE FUCKING MORDO? Christ all mighty, fuck this Mordo arc. But I'm not discounting him as a villain just yet, since he hasn't had a technical "villian role" yet. Strange's redemption arc is different than Tony's, and honestly better. The lesson of "it's not about you" and him potentially sacrificing himself forever in the time loop shows that he actually grew -- He's no longer afraid of failure, and realizes that he isn't the most important person in the world. So he fails, again and again, suffering through death after death, for potentially an eternity, in order to protect Earth and millions of people he hasn't met.

Meanwhile, Scott didn't really grow much as a character. He doesn't learn a lesson like humility, and he goes back to crime (albeit, "superhero crime") in Civil War. His reason to grow is his daughter, but in the end he still gets to see her, even after escaping prison and breaking into Cross Labs. He still doesn't see crime as bad, and his appearance in Civil War completely invalidates his original arc. "I'm trying to stay out of trouble, because I love my daughter more than life" devolved into "I'm a criminal? What else is new?"
Cross on the other hand, oooooo boy. What a good villain. Not Loki-tier, but honestly, who else is? He's way better than the shit that we got in Strange. You can tell he's mentally unhinged and is completely unapologetic about what he goes. He isn't serving some bigger bad, he's serving himself. He actually has motivations and an interesting relationship to Hank, which makes him miles better than the motivation of "death is an insult" that Kaecilius had.

In conclusion, Strange is the better protagonist while Cross is the better antagonist.
Which one is better?
Well, I don't have time to write a full report and analysis about both movies- maybe another day- but I can answer the question of which one I'd rather watch.
I'm a total Strangefag, so I would watch Doctor Strange.
Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy Ant-Man and am a huge slut of Paul Rudd, but I just prefer the character arc presenting in Doctor Strange more than the arc presented in Ant-Man. Main character development is one of the main reasons I enjoy a movie, and I also just have a natural pull towards Strange. I don't read many comics, but I read as much Doctor Strange as I can get my hands on. Way of the Weird rocked my socks off. Would recommend.

Ant-Man by far. It actually had more style and originality than Doctor Strange. In fact, Ant-Man having better visuals than a Doctor Strange movie is almost a crime if you ask me.

>Ant-Man had one of the catchier MCU themes songs.
true t b h

kinda relate to that, but that movie also has one of my favourite scenes from the MCU, the Zola reveal

The only ones there with similar humour are Stark and Strange, with the difference being that in Doctor Strange sometimes his jokes fall flat.

Ant-Man was surprisingly more fun than Dr. Strange. Strange was just weird, like a mix of Batman Begins and Ironman but with less seriousness. Antman despite being another funny Antman movie managed to be better by adding a heist twist and more likable characters compared to Cumberbatch's movie.