Is DC slowly transitioning from Superman/Batman to Batman/Flash

I'm not saying Flash is gonna replace Superman in the Trinity. Never will that happen. But remember when most major DC arcs revolved around Superman and Batman? But now DC Rebirth's continuities, timelines, universes, all hang on Flash's shoulders (or maybe his legs). And with the Button and this whole Doomsday Clock thing, I think one of DC's 2 biggest superheroes will be replaced. Maybe the Superman archetype just doesn't appeal to the market anymore.

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>the Superman archetype just doesn't appeal to the market anymore.
>he says while the comic consistently makes top 5 the sales charts

also in the most recent JL issue, Barry/Bruce do a little team-up

Geoff Johns likes the Flash

The Flash has a successful TV series

And it hasn't had a failed or disappointing movie incarnation (yet)

There's no real reason not to push the Flash. Other than the ridiculous notion of how superspeed is represented as being 80% distance running in superhero comics, but that's my personal bias talking

Yeah, but comic book sales are hardly "the market" these days.

And I say that as a huge Superfag.

No. If anything, Superman is above the Batman team-up now.
He is literally at the center of the Rebirth story.

Superman, Batman, and Flash are all tragic, sympathetic characters. I'd like to see Wonder Woman get some feels too. Not to the point of UNCLE BEN!!! but she's always been kinda flat to me.

>And it hasn't had a failed or disappointing movie incarnation (yet)
Development hell is way worse. Two directors dropped out and script is being rewrite from page one at this moment.

It's because flashes powers involve time travel and this entire comic event is revolving around timelines and time travel.

Well Wonder Woman's been all but phased out by Harley Quinn. So maybe

>And with the Button and this whole Doomsday Clock thing, I think one of DC's 2 biggest superheroes will be replaced. Maybe the Superman archetype just doesn't appeal to the market anymore.
Remember when Green Lantern was DC's best selling superhero under a decade ago? Good times.

>Remember when Green Lantern was DC's best selling superhero under a decade ago? Good times.
And now Hal Jordan's not part of JL and he shares his comic with Gardner, Rayner, Stewart, and the rest of the Corps. lol

That's the point. It's just Barry's turn. Enjoy the ride.

>Doomsday clock

Johns said Superman would be the central figure of that story. And IJ2 just came out with Bats and Supes as the central characters while Flash was a supporting one.

Flash should replace WW in the trinity

He won't replace superman but I'd love more flash comics like a wally comic.

Just let Superman be aware that the Flash is trying to steal Bruce from him.

What's up with the JL heroes wanting Batman for themselves?

When Hal was getting popular he was starting to team up with Batman as well.

>>And I say that as a huge Superfag.
doubtful since you made the exact same thread last year

The last issue of the Button literally ends with a full page spread of Superman's symbol

No you stupid batman hater.

Johns got a call from wb to use the watchmen characters, he added flash cuz the last time he was told to do something like this he came out with flashpoint, the whole comedian's pin and batman is just to sell more shit, it's a gimmick and nothing more.


And no DC isn't changing anything, we have a movie with batman as the antagonist last year, and all of the next jl movie is about superman. Superman is in a stronger position than 10 years ago, thing is that when you want to push flash or wonder woman it's usually superman who would get his exposure cut and not batman, batman gets cut for his own characters, like the joker.

>flash is tragic


I really want to spit on Johns face for this

>Geoff Johns likes the Flash
That's about it really. Hal also got a big push till a while ago. Would still do had his movie been good.

That said, literally johns said doomsday clock will focus on superman. So I dont see superman being replaced with barry. Its more barry getting a push if anything.

>doubtful since you made the exact same thread last year
This is OP, and no I wasn't the one who posted that Superfag thing. My only posts in this thread are the OP and the one about GL

Flash should probably replace WW as the third member for the trinity. Historically he's way more important to DC than her.

So is Robin.

WW is in so it doesn't look like a gay couple with their adopted son.

I know, right?!

Maybe Superman is too big for himself.
I can easily imagine a fun good TV-series of Superman being made these days, but he is kept on DC's movie roster for stuff that's not very fun and arguably not good ether.

Here are the April 2017 units sold from the comichron website. I added it all up and here are the rankings of JL members in sales.
1. Batman
2. Flash
3. Superman
4. Wonder Woman
5. Green Lanterns
6. Aquaman
7. Cyborg
Even Venom #6 sold more than Superman #20 and #21 individually.

Batman is self explanatory. Flash got a boost because of the Button crossover. And Venom #6 was Eddie's return as Venom. Supes only had regular issues.

>But now DC Rebirth's continuities, timelines, universes, all hang on Flash's shoulders

That's been literally the case since the original Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1985

>And with the Button and this whole Doomsday Clock thing, I think one of DC's 2 biggest superheroes will be replaced.

It's already confirmed Superman will be at the center of everything in Doomsday Clock. That story is Superman vs Manhattan.

cbr.com/jim-lee-dubs-harley-quinn-fourth-pillar-of-dc-comics-line/

Flash consistently outsells Superman now, though. Since the show started, at least.

Superman doesn't sell bad, though. In fact, he sells big. He is just behind Flash right now.

He's just reclaiming his place in the pop culture pantheon. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and the Flash all coming back into prominence as classic inspiring heroes now that everyone's sick of seeing Cap and Tony on all the lunch boxes.

Green Lantern it seems has lost a bit of steam as a franchise. It's sorta taken the place of Aquaman as the joke character, thanks to Deadpool and whatnot. And I don't have a good feeling about Cyborgs reception, although I hope to be wrong.

>Green Lantern it seems has lost a bit of steam as a franchise

When the 220 million live action movie is DOA that'll happen.

GL is the most botched opportunity for a breakout hero I've ever seen. Johns run revitalized him the comics world, to the point he was the best selling DC series for the late 2000s. He had a few well done animated films, a well received animated series, and the black version got some recognition thanks to the JL series.

Everything was looking great for GL until that shit movie and in conjunction, his awful New 52 iteration ruined his name.

I haven't made a thread on Sup Forums in months, friend.

You know what?

He should.

Aside Superman's iconic symbol, he sucks, plain and simple.

He doesn't work well in fights due to his " imma strong at everything mommy xD" background.

Flash has the best moral compass in DC so he would be great poster boy.

To bad it's the wrong Flash getting pushed.

>and the black version got some recognition thanks to the JL series.
We call John Stewart the black version now? I thought he was a separate character from Hal?

>Flash are all tragic

>He had a few well done animated films, a well received animated series,

The cartoons were better written than the fucking movie. That's what's really telling.

Blame didio he never liked Wally.

No, also the show isn't as popular as you pretend it is.

Because apparently they didn't even have a script when they started shooting. WB production was just messed up.

It's not like they are pushing Barry in the right direction. Flash is now known for being an incompetent fuck up who can't do anything without someone giving him a pep talk. Ezra Miller's version is a literal manchild too.

Flash franchise is going the way of GotG. It's going to be dreadful to watch them synergize the fuck out of it once that shitty movie hits.

George Miller openly rejecting Superman because he's lame it's pretty embarassing. Snyder got the job in the first place because no one wanted to touch Superman. Nowadays WB is falling apart so every project is suffering for that

>He doesn't work well in fights due to his " imma strong at everything mommy xD" background.

It was literally the most 5th most popular show of 2016.

This. Barry was only interesting when he was dead. Wally is the Best Flash.
Wrong. Snyder got the job because he willing to get the movie pushed out quickly so WB could keep the Superman rights. Also so what if Miller thinks that? I'm sure most people think GL is lame too. Opinions and assholes and what not.

>Of 2016
Pretty important distinction

>the wrong Flash

Wally is a distant memory to most readers, and an unknown to the average person.

Barry, by point of being a blank without a strongly defined personality, it more ideal for developing the Flash as a brand.

Not that I have much faith that Time Warner is gonna pull that off unless they really do get Robert Zemeckis.

Honestly Batman + anyone is cute as fuck. Batman works well with all the Justice League.

>Ezra Miller's version is a literal manchild too.

And that's why males age 18-49 will love him.

>Pretty important distinction
We're 5 months in on 2017, and May isn't even finished. Flash is still one of the most popular shows in 2017. It still goes trending in Twitter on a regular basis.

The costume he has here was given to RF in the game. I prefer this one more than the one he ended up having

DC's biggest story in 2017 revolves around.... Superman. This November. He's not going anywhere.

>Comic consistently makes top 5 chart.
You do realize that Superman and Action Comics are selling around 50K and 40K.

I remember Hal was a blamed fool in the Lego Movie, that mildly annoyed me

>consistently makes top 5 the sales charts
April 2017 sales
1. Secret Empire
2. X-Men Blue
3. X-Men Gold
4. Batman
5. Flash
take that for consistency

By that speed,Superman will be in cancelation zone by issue 60.

Because of an event and two brand new X-books.

>Flash has the best moral compass in DC

Nope. It doesn't fall like that.

Even New 52 Superman was still at the 49th spot by his 52nd issue (not counting issue 0, Convergence, Future's End and the likes).

Superman and AC by 20th are doing better than Cap America by 12th or Avengers by 6th, or almost any other franchise, for that matter. Don't try to spin it into a bad thing.

We aren't talking about Wally and Johns retcon of Barry is shit.

Superman is still fucking Superman.

But someone at Time Warner decided he had a to be a postmodern tragic villain to be relatable.

The comics show that's not really the case.

Then if all you're talking about is Silver Age Barry Superman still has a better moral compass

>An event
>Two Number ones
>A crossover
And guess what, Action Comics outsold Detective Comics during Superman Reborn. I'm sure Doomsday Clock will outsell everything else.

So you're talking about a character that doesn't exist anymore? Silver Age Barry killed Zoom then fucked off to the future. When Supes killed in his last story he literally took his own powers away due to how strong he believed in not killing.

>Johns retcon of Barry is shit.

But that's THE Barry being pushed. The Silver Age guy who was inspired by Jay Garrick comics is no more.

But even a normal tec issue easily outsells a normal Superman issue.

Don't even start with that shit.

This doesn't make sense. Flash has ALWAYS been connected to multiverse/continuity shit. That's his thing. That's not a shift.

>He doesn't work well in fights

That's what people brainwashed by DBZ say

It's one thing a 13 years old kid or some manchild on a comic book store say Superman is lame but it's another story when WB offered George Miller to direct a Man of Steel sequel after getting fanboy credit by Fury Road and he rejected it because Superman is lame. Even worse when he started fawning over how cool and complex Batman is.

Whatever do you mean?

Modern day Superman is definitely lame, having literally no great run. It's more DC's fault for treating Superman like a step child. While, Batman gets the better writers, Superman has been eternally stuck with bad writers. Even looking at Rebirth, they gave their hottest writer to write Batman and Superman was given to mediocre writers like Tomasi and Jurgens.

Pos-Infinite Crisis Superman is way, way better than Batman.

No, it wasn't. It was still largely mediocre and lead to the new Krypton shitshow. That Eric Powell Bizzaro story was fun though. While, I enjoyed both Morrison's Batman and Dini's Tec.

Stop it.

While I enjoyed Post-Infinite Crisis Superman and found Post-Infinite Crisis Batman largely mediocre.

Tomasi is doing great work right now.
>But I don't like it
Yeah and Sup Forums fucking hates Snyder's Batman but everyone else loved it. Suck it up, Superman is having a great run right now.
>It's one thing a 13 years old kid or some manchild on a comic book store say Superman is lame but it's another story when WB offered George Miller to direct a Man of Steel sequel after getting fanboy credit by Fury Road and he rejected it because Superman is lame. Even worse when he started fawning over how cool and complex Batman is.
Not really. Miller is a human being with his own opinions. That he's found success is awesome for him, but it doesn't give him objectively superior opinions somehow. Besides after Snyder we really don't need another Batfag making a Superman movie. Vaughn is probably going to direct the MoS sequel and I'd be fine with that.

What makes you think that Snyder is a Batfag when he turned Batman into the movie villain that is redeemed by the heroism of Superman?

The fraction of Sup Forums that hates Tomasi usually is the fraction that can't cope with him outselling GENIUS WRITERS like Nick Spencer and Al Ewing.

Because he did such a fucking terrible job of it. I will give him credit, BvS is like the only thing in recent memory that actually makes Batman the bad guy. I fucking hate how people say BvS Batman is not the real Batman because Batman would never do that, and then use Injustice which is equally terrible like it's an accurate portrayal of the characters.

Both those runs are shit, and deservedly hated.

Johns is the definition of Mediocrity. I can't take the opinion of a Johnsfags seriously.

Fuck off with your company wars.

Have a (u)

Except neither of them are hated outside of the echo chamber of Sup Forums autist.

In hindsight, it feels like Flash has always been one of the more subtly pushed DC heroes
>Two TV shows
>One of which spawned two side-scrolling games, along with having a DCAU Justice League spinoff and almost getting an open world game
>A speedster usually on a Justice Team derivative team (Barry and Wally for the Justice League, Wally for the Titans, Bart (and almost Irey) for Young Justice, Black Wally on the Teen Titans
>Didn't get a dedicated animated series, but gave the Flash Family major focus in Young Justice (arguable, I suppose)

...

Blame Geoff Johns for that.

This.
But even before that, with the Flash Of Two Earths storyline.
The Flash has always been important, realistically.

Even BEFORE that. Barry Allen started the Silver Age of comics. His importance is big to the history of the industry itself.