Is he right Sup Forums?

Is he right Sup Forums?

Other urls found in this thread:

geneticliteracyproject.org/2014/07/08/practice-does-not-make-perfect-elite-sprinters-destroy-10-year-rule-myth-that-athletes-made-not-born/
dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2328337/Practice-NOT-make-perfect-Innate-talent-whats-required-greatness-areas-games-music.html
msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/practice-makes-perfect-not-so-much/
researchgate.net/profile/Zach_Hambrick/publications
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

His nose is a triangle, so no.

depends on the story.

sometimes hard work wins, sometimes talent wins.

worse if 'destiny says so' happens.

though with hard work, you know they have a work ethic.

No, talent is a multiplier of hard work. There are probably things you are talented at that you have never tried and never will.

He is right about what it feels like when you see someone effortlessly surpass you though.

In a way yes,he is absolutely right,

BUT HES WRONG IF HE THINKS POINTING THAT OUT WILL FIX ANYTHING

Luck trumps all

no. Talent is vastly overrated, in most cases a talented person is someone who is more willing to work hard at something.

The artist who made that comic is probably just butthurt that other artists are better than him

>Ignoring the giant mountain next to them that is luck

No matter how you get there, skill isn't enough to be the best.

You'd think that hard work would have allowed him to draw better. Maybe write an actual punchline or two.

What did he mean by this?

Replace "Talent" with "Connections" and it's pretty accurate.
Your wife being a producer >>>>> being a talented director.

I kinda figured that hard work is a multiplier of talent.

this guy.

lord i hate how he could just master stuff he's seen once or twice.

feels more of an ass-pull rather than talent.

Yes, it is true that people are naturally talented at certain things, while others are not. However, feeling vindictive or spiteful towards a naturally talented individual is pathetic, especially when the person holding resentment is awful in what they're doing.

DeviantArt is the perfect example of this, as it is a cesspool of mediocrity for the most part, where people who haven't improved their drawing skills in years still find a way to hold contempt for individuals who have stepped up from being novices. Hard work is completely irrelevant if their is no proper result, the same way talents can be wasted by an individual who doesn't pursue his natural gifts.

Connections/Nepotism trumps everything, including Luck.

talent = did it for fun as a child/did something else that honed functions used in the "talented" skill
the "talented" individual in this comic doodled on his worksheets in class as a child and so starts on the same level as the webcomic artist who's had to diligently work their way up to casual child tier

But connections/nepotism are the results of luck.

Connections/Nepotism IS luck

Mah man.

not necessarily, you can get connections through talent or hard work. Hell, ask any law student, they actually get taught in law school on how to make connections

True, true.

Pretty much. Sometimes I wonder if fate exists and that means I was never meant to be a cartoonist for not being born in the right place.

No, not really
everyone starts on the same level, some just climb higher and faster than others.
the human brain is neat like that

wow not cool

No one is born with the ability to draw amazing art you fucking hack.
You don't start good, you get good. Maybe the different is that they have more affinity for learning than you.

I got my current job by fucking my former boss.

The race qouta, much like the wage gap is a myth.
Just a scapegoat white losers came up with to justify them not getting that job at some company.

Artistic talent isn't real. You only git gud by practicing endlessly.

t. person who never worked HR

Ex hr manager here.
The race quota is very real, painfully so.

Can someone photoshop him to be black and skill to say white privilege?

No. Its his perception of another without an examination of their efforts. Talent can only get you so far. It takes concentrated effort, also known as HARD WORK, for a talented individual to get where they are because simply having talent does not magical grant an individual the ability to know how to direct it. There are occasions of it where its just handed to them, in cases like nepotism and inheritance, but this comic comes off more as sour grapes than anything else. A refusal to see the hard work of others due to it making their own hard work feel less 'special'.

I'm a minority and even aware enough to know it's true.

a*b=c
b*a=c

Regardless, you're never going to get anywhere unless both a and b are integers larger than 0.

Connections and Nepotism are fully realized by ass-kissing, not "luck".
It doesn't matter if your Dad owns the corporation, if he hates your guts and likes your older sister better. You have to know people AND cultivate a positive relationship with them.

Once you are in tight with the people in charge, you can be an unlucky, talentless motherfucker all you want.

Seriously, that's how it works.

Guy could have talent and still have a lost of common sense and no responsibility.

This page matters little without everything else playing a role into talent and hard work.

Partly. As much as people may try to deny it, some people have an easier time learning a certain skill than others.

I'm about to finish my physics degree. Math and physics come very naturally to me, so I was able to get a very high GPA with minimal effort. I have classmates who've worked their asses off and have just been getting by. On the other hand, there are things that I really struggle with that seem to come naturally to other people. For example, lately I've been trying to learn how to draw, but no matter how much I practice and study, I haven't been seeing much improvement.

Personally, I suspect that people who say everything comes down to hard work and hard work alone haven't tried to learn a whole lot of different skills. The more things you try, the more you'll find you're better suited to some things than others (unless you're one of those amazingly gifted people who seem to be good at everything, but they aren't too common).

Yeah but what happens when that same fucker with talent puts in hard work, and you know doesn't spend his days writing shitty webcomics about how unfair life is and instead draws shit like inverted cacti on cats?

I came into this thread to post this.

You're confusing technical aptitude with actual talent, which is real. Some people are born with better cognitive spatial awareness, color sensitivity, and visual design sensibilities. Those are what would be considered "talents" in art. Then there are those that need to work their asses off to match the natural abilities ("talents") that others have. I knew more than a few people in art school that worked 10 times harder than I did (or ever had prior) and they still came up short. Easily thousands of hours more than I put in, but I came out ahead. It's just genetics lottery at a certain point.

tldr: hard work is vegeta, talent is goku

*leans into mic*
Wrong
Affirmative Action is worthless for minorities. Ironically it benefits white women the most.

>*leans into mic*
opinion discarded

He's absolutely right. Painfully so.

His skill had taken him to the point of a competent artist. Other characters talent provides him that ability without effort.

But talented guy hasn't progressed at all. He's stagnant. Because talent is so easy squandered. And that's more painful than anything.

Why are you all assuming he's talking about drawing though?
He doesn't say "art skill" he just says achieving a skill, this could be any number of things
And some people are just naturally better at certain things than others even if they've hardly practiced before

>Get a job
>possibly take someone's position
>don't get a job
>add to the unemployment rate

Ducks don't have that many hands.

Wait, they don't even have hands at all!

Talent is a advantage, but not one as big as people like to think, the thing is that people are more prone to working hard at something they ARE talented in and putting in just as much effort or more so then your "untalented" hard worker.

Talent in fiction is almost always portrayed as a "I WIN FLAWLESSLY WITHOUT TRYING" thing, but in reality that is basically always supplemented by hard work as well. being talented does not mean a person didn't have 10000 failures of their own to temper it with.

>how dare someone be better than me at something than me
>It must because they have an unfair advantage
>Not because I'm a lazy fuck who cranks out the same shit day after day instead of always striving to be better.

Very, very little in life comes down to raw talent.

Race shouldn't even be mentioned on applications at all.

>SU

For some reason now I watch that image with Jasper in Hardwork and Stevonnie in talent/fusion

I hope he's not talking about art.
Cause I've never seen any example of him trying to push his boundary beyond line art and block coloring.
Talent in representational art is a god damn fucking meme.

Sergey Korolev: "The life of a designer is no parade of victories; there are innumerably more failures. But they must not stop us".

In most cases, the "talented" individual is just someone who started early and had enough gumption to not be discouraged by their initial lack of skill.

>owltard
>competent artist
it's also hilarious that you imply he hasn't stagnated when these amateurish feelsbadman comics are all he does
And to assume you know the exact conditions of the talented guy (which I might inform you is an inaccurate depiction of the situation) shows you're projecting HARD over there

it can, really, but it's not really an unfair magical cloud. It's just that some people are better at some aspect of the craft, like understanding shape and space, or colors, or simply having a better eye/hand coordination. Thing is people have different forte and weaknesses so the person who needed hard work for something probably can do something the other "talented" person can't do for shit.
But we are talking in the scenario of 2 people with genuine desire to learn. On the internet when you read "hard work" it often means "I watche a 5 minute youtube video why am I not sakimichan"

...

>In most cases
Granted. But I will say that in my case, I was always better than other kids, even outside of my age, and it was natural talent. When I was 4 I drew birds nests in (crude) overhead perspective. That's something that most kids can't grasp until they're at least 10, and it's far too young to be explained by hard work. So natural no-effort talent is 100% real, but it's rare.

Nice pant skills.

Oh that's a nice catch user and very true

So as the hard working artist has been getting better at art the talented one hasn't been moving up at all

Skill is just learning what to do and how to not fuck up, learned through trial and error. Learning how to make a kind of stroke, how to size your stuff for print or digital, how to avoid line tangents, those are a result of skill and have nothing to do with some kind of innate thing you should be proud of. It's just common sense.

Talent is when you're observant enough to avoid a lot of mistakes of a novice, but you're still going to make a lot of mistakes that need to be corrected.

That's it, that's literally it. It's why they try and drill it into your head to draw what you see, not what you want, because being observant is all you need to be a "talented" artist, and all that really means is you're putting in the same amount of work but faster. Not better, faster.

There's no get out of jail free card for art, you're going to have to work in the salt mines of experimental educational drafting wether you want to or not. The people who complain about talent are sore losers.

does this dude have a therapist?

penis

Not if he believes he does hard work. That is the most lazy, no effort, weak willed, slothful art style I've ever seen. And I've read a couple other comics made with stick figures or captioned photos.

XKCD puts more hard work in their art than this guy can even concieve of doing. DM of the Rings puts more hard work in a single page than this guy has done in all his career.

>Jasper born a naturally perfect super quartz and never had to work toward being as strong as she is

Ya okay that makes sense?

And I guess all the training Steven and Connie have been shown to do themselves dont matter

...

>*leans into mic*
Stop.

>he fell for the hard work meme

HAHAHAHAHAHA

geneticliteracyproject.org/2014/07/08/practice-does-not-make-perfect-elite-sprinters-destroy-10-year-rule-myth-that-athletes-made-not-born/

dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2328337/Practice-NOT-make-perfect-Innate-talent-whats-required-greatness-areas-games-music.html

I fucking loathe this guy's comics. Please tell me I'm not the only one.

woke af

>dailymail
So we just shitposting now?

Not an argument
Here, have another source about the same expert if some link triggers you so much

msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/practice-makes-perfect-not-so-much/

And here's Hambrick's publications
researchgate.net/profile/Zach_Hambrick/publications

The edge cases, yes. The guys and gals who are literally the best out of 7 billion people, need to be born with ungodly ability.

For every other fuck that ended up being born crawling on this rock, it's mostly work.

Why should I give you the satisfaction? What right do you have to have your suspicions confirmed or denied?

Holy fuck this mindset pisses me off. Not only is he playing the victim by having to put hard work to achieve a skill yet he's also discrediting another person's hard work as just lucky talent they were born with when he should know damn well how hard is it really is after putting so much time into it.

It probably isn't in most countries. Like it probably isn't in Asia because you can tell someone isn't chinese/japanese/laocean by just looking at the name, then they will fuck you over for being black in an asian world.

And connections matter 200 times more than both.
Big whoop.

I got the satisfaction myself by googling owlturd + Sup Forums Sup Forums and reading the numerous threads shitting all over this horrible comic

OHMYGODKILL pls

>have moderate talent at writing, go nowhere with it
>work really hard to get college degree but it's useless for getting a job
>get the job I have now because best friend from high school gave a recommendation to head of HR of his company for me
Connections > all, in my personal experience

>Not an argument
>implying that pointing out using unreliable sources isn't an argument
Now THAT isn't an argument.

Talent is about 10%, maybe 20% of the skill. But considering all he draws are shitty doodles, he's pretty much right about his level being the same as some talented but completely untrained artist.

Nope. He should make it two pillars of work for equal work, one being much higher due to a higher talent factor.
Skill=Talent x Work
Succesd=(Luck x 2Connections) + Skill

so the key to life is to be really social (hard to do for autistic shy people with social anxiety and problems, but just put enough hard work into it lol) and have enough "skills" (not hard work in that context) to back it up, along with nepotism? huh

I saw this picture posted on Sup Forums already and posted about my experiences in that thread. Hell I'm the only one at my job in my area (not office or first shit workers) who doesn't hang out with the others, they are all friends. also yes ive tried to hang out with them but lets just say I'm not a redneck hunting type person, also they said they don't really want to despite a couple of them being into comics and video games

I already gave you new sources. Stop bitching faggot

I'm not social at all though. I made no friends in college, which is why I didn't have any opportunities come along til a friend from high school hooked me up. And he only got that job cause he was in their internship program that he got recommended into by one of his professors. Just a chain of people getting into the place thanks to connections.

These.

Want to be THE BEST THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN?

Innate talent + that natural talent happens to be in something you enjoy + mental strength/work ethic to continually strive to improve and stay at the top of your game.

Williams sisters/Michael Phelps/Michelangelo/Jeff Dean are all uniquely talented people, but they didn't become the best without a ton of effort.

In my line of work (engineering), drive-to-succeed matters a hell of a lot, and I see a lot of talented-but-lazy people get kicked to the curb. Some of them shape up and get back in the game, but it's hard to catch up when your career is 5-10 years behind.

Talent is also inborn traits that just make you better at whatever you're trying to do. For being a painter or artist in general hand-eye coordination and spatial reasoning are things some people are just better at from birth. Some people just have an intuitive grasp of color theory, they can just "tell" some colors go better together than others. Other people have to study the color wheel and think about their pallet. The talented person just paints based on instinct. That's a definite leg up.

Obviously nobody is born a master, not even Mozart, but inborn skill does exist.

Yeah, not going to disagree with this - every job I've gotten, it's because of personal connections. I did cool work, stood out from the crowd, met cool people, and they knew who to call when they needed Stuff to Get Done.

Let's be frank, if I was 5-10 years younger, I'd probably be "diagnosed" with autism. I'm a shy dude with social anxiety issues. But aside from getting that first job, I've never had any trouble finding work. Once you have your foot in the door (that's the hardest part), good work generally speaks for itself.

It's not about nepotism, it's about wanting the best probability of the best outcome. If you need some to do Z, who are you going to hire? A random resume off your company's job website that claims to be good at Z, or the person you worked with last year who you KNOW is really good at Z?

Spamming this cancerous pretentious shit on containment boards like this one and you're bound to get some (you)s. Talent, and Hard-work go hand in hand. The picture just proves that the faggot self insert is just not as adapt as the later. Seeing as no one is the same, nor equal in skill, and/or natural talent.

Alex Toth started out like shit but he kept working at it 'till he was one of the best in the field and kept aging like wine and surpassing himself over and over again.

Capitalistfags will tell you this guy's an idiot.
In reality, they're just sociopaths who want to watch the world burn. And ironically blame powerless socialists for their failures.

Eh. He's sort of wrong honestly. Maybe.

Dudes an artist so I guess that's where his viewpoint comes from but I love MMA and that's a sport where you tend to see a lot of the intersection of hardwork and talent and the story that tends to be told is that someone who is talented is liable to beat the untalented but hardworking a lot, until they don't.

Talent can really only take you so far. There is typically a point of diminishing returns and it mostly tends to be when the basics you really had no need for come back to bite you in the ass in when you're exhausted or the other guy outtoughs.

But that's direct competition so meh.

No, you are wrong to believe everybody works hard to get results. It's just an easy way to dismiss your own failure. The permanent "I could if I really wanted to". truth is, it doesn't work.

Redistributing wealth implies power.

Regarding real life? Not exactly.

In real life talent determines your ceiling. In every competitive activity you'll sooner or later discover the level progressing beyond which merely with lots practice is impossible, no matter how hard you practice.

Hard work determines whether you actually reach that ceiling, or waste your talent. Talent only allows to skip on hard work if you're not interested in reaching your actual ceiling and content to be only above mediocrity. Speaking of drawing, given that the thread was started by an example of such, some people are just naturally talented to the point that dribblings they make for fun during boring college lections or whatever can give them a little bit of Internet fame. But you can bet your ass that those same people would be forced to work their asses off (whether to improve their quality, or to keep content of the same quality flowing with regularity and not just when inspiration strikes them), were they to decide to earn their living by drawing.

does this shithead really think that talent makes you magically be at a certain skill level by default?

what a lazy idiot, it's funny how nobody told me I was just sooo talented until I worked hard enough to be good

They aren't in France but according to some study or other someone with an ethnic name has to send out 4 times as many resumés.

Depends on what said skill is. If it's art then your skill is tied to time invested and discipline. "Talent" doesn't have much of anything to do when learning art.

This, but people actually believe "talented" artists can draw well from the get go somehow. I showed a guy who kept insisting he could never learn to draw because he's not magically talented like me some of my really early scribbles and he was genuinely surprised I used to suck.

That or they're just trying to excuse wanting to avoid years and years of hard work by claiming it's just unachievable for them.

My point exactly.
If socialists had actual power, they'd be redistributing the wealth. Instead all we get is autistic screeching (not unjustified, mind you).