Almost halfway through season 2

>Almost halfway through season 2

Does it ever become watchable?

I've watched DS9 and ENT twice, all of TNG, TOS, the movies, and the animated series. I just cannot bring myself to even click on this as an option it's so bad to me.

In short, no.

I just ran the series last year, solely because I'd never seen all the episodes.

It's awful, and I'll never do it again. I don't miss any of the characters, I hate the ship, I hate the situations they get into, I hate the two-parter episodes, and I have the series finale.

There are one or two episodes that I remember enjoying, but that's one or two in 7 seasons of shit.

All that being said, amazingly it is still better than STD...

>hate the series finale

Meant 'hate the series finale...

There's one or two good episodes in there. i don't remember them at the moment, but they exist.

I like Voyager, but I won't defend it because it's hit or miss in terms of whether others like it.

It does get a little better once Seven comes on board

95% of the problem with the series was Mulgrew just not being good at acting. I can't help but wonder what it would be like if Geneviève Bujold had kept the captain's role.

When Seven joins it's a bit more watchable. But based on your OP I wouldn't even bother watching past where you're at. The show stays its level of quality (Which is 'not good) the whole way through. Just find some "essential'/"important" episode list if you need some kind of closure, there's probably like ten episodes you really """need""" to see.

The only thing I liked about Voyager was the doctor. I still watched it all.

Did they ever get home?
I know the Borg put out a hit on 7

This. Seven saved the series for me. I did like Paris and B'Elanna, but they got boring after they actually got together, and there was too much fucking around. In fact, I think that was the entire issue with the show, along with bad writing.

Not watched it yet. Waiting until it's fully released. Why is it shit?

Last episode they do, mostly.

My hope was to watch this and be able to say to the naysayers that VOY, while it is the worst of old Trek, is still a decent show. I no longer consciously have that option.

it starts out slow and autistic then janeway goes insane and it mostly becomes the 7 and doctor show.

there are barclay episodes.

Voyager has occasional good episodes but they are few and far between.

The best series are TNG and DS9, followed by TOS which is pretty uneven

Voyager is definitely below that, Enterprise is even lower, and Discovery is nigh unwatchable

It's about a fidget spinner space ship powered by magic mushrooms and it uses a macroscopic tardigrade with nipple clamps as the navigation device. Not joking.

Also it's set during the pilot of TOS and they retconned a war that should have happened 20 years earlier into happening then.

If that's not enough to disgust you, the black female lead is Spocks adopted sister, mainly because the actress was so bad at actually conveying emotion they decided to have her be raised by Vulcan

It's really really bad

Am I crazy but I honestly find VOY more fun than DS9.

DS9's great episodes are better than VOY's great episodes. BUT VOY's 'bland character has a problem' average episodes are better than boring DS9 'Bajoran victim complex' episodes.

Am I wrong for prefering VOY overall? I do also like DS9.

I... That actually sounds so bad it's worth watching?

Is it at least set in the 'nu' Trek timeline? Because then a war happening a few decades late wouldn't matter too much, and the obvious tech improvements/better looking sets would match at least. I did hear it wasn't supposed to be canon to the main Trek timeline.

People who are moderate fans of Star Trek should check out Discovery. The Harry Mudd episode is great, and the new theme music is good.

Is it perfect? No. Is it good? Yes. Is it Star Trek? Mostly. (the first 2 episodes are JJ Abrams-like, but it gets better)

Either way, don't listen to autistic Sup Forums critics.

I'm actually watching it now for the third time, on the episode where the aliens try to take over the ship through teleportation.

Its kino, especially seasons 1-3.

It's utter shit. The Ensign Suder eps at the end of the 2nd season are decent because Brad Douriff is awesome. Other than that, there's maybe 2 or 3 decent episodes in the entire rest of the series.

Kate Mulgrew is absolute trash as the captain, and that show was done the minute they cast her in that role. And every other crew member is completely unlikable and don't give me that bullshit about "Le Doctor" he was a show-tune singing faggot and the idea of treating computer programs as if they're actual people is retarded af. Paris ALMOST was bearable when he was trying to long dick that cute little sexpot Kes but they turn him into a fanook as well.

I unironically think every Season 3 episode of TOS is superior to anything the weekly steaming pile of sick known as Voyager ever vomited onto my poor, abused television screen.

God. I watched the first episode, and all I really remember of it now was the one Klingon who burned his hand to prove what a "badass" he was.

Expect when he was doing that he just stood there, completely emotionless, like a fucking robot. Then I realized the actor had so much makeup and prosthetics on that they literally couldn't do anything to convey any emotions.

The crazy, drunk, funny, angry, belligerent Klingons of DS9 were some of my favorite characters. Even if they were cheesy at times, I could tell what the actors were going for. But these new ones are just expressionless zombies.

And it sounds like the series has just gotten worse from there. Thanks for taking one for the team user.

This, except I wouldn't call the series "good". "Okay" is more like it.

I powered my way through the first two episodes, but dropped it the minute they introduced that autistic ginger cadet.

It's not good it's dogshit

Not him, but if you ever feel the need to watch STD, "just to give it a chance" or something, I'll recommend this:
Watch the last 10-20 minutes of the mid-season finale. I'll tell you right now what you'll see. You won't believe me telling you, but it is the unfiltered truth, and seeing it for yourself will save you from a lot of wasted time, if you ever have your doubts:

>The Main Character's boyfriend, has a big emotional breakdown, where he explains that for the majority of the 270 days he was a Klingon POW, he wasn't just a prisoner
>Boyfriend was a klingon rape slave to his female torturer
>This isn't just said
>This is accompanied by flashing lights, full frontal female klingon nudity, moaning, and Species (the film) tier interspecies sex montage of the Klingon torturer raping said character

This is an actual scene that exists as part of the Star Trek canon now.
Also said boyfriend may or may not be a deep cover gene altered version of the albino klingon you mentioned, who is dethroned but is meant to be the spiritual successor of the leading Klingon dude from the pilot episodes; and was taken to "Klingon Seeresses" who taught him "things he couldn't possibly imagine" and is on a direct course to become a mix of Muad'dib from Dune with the NOT-SPICE magic hyperspace spore, and Revan from KOTOR.

It's shit for all the same reasons that the new Star Wars is shit. I could go into it, but it would take all night and I've done it before in threads long past.

In short: the writing is very low in quality, the concept is fundamentally flawed, the aesthetic is a dead end, and the showrunners are aggressively adhering to the principle of 'we're going to do whatever we want. Fuck the fans if they don't like it'.

Watching it is a very unique experience, I'll give it that. I've never watched a program that caused my anger to increase exponentially as the episode goes on...this doesn't happen with anything else. And with STD, every episode is like this; the problems compound on each other as the episode unfolds, and you end up getting to the end being frustrated and angry. It's legitimately horrible.

Is that enough to satisfy your curiosity? Fine, watch it, and you'll understand. Throw logic, canon, character, pacing, aesthetic style and concept, musical talent, all of it...throw all of it out the window and prepare to be bombarded by nonsensical banal trash.

This show isn't the fault of the actors or the anyone who actually works on the show (i.e. DOP, gaffers, etc.)...it's solely the fault of the writers, creators, showrunners, etc. THEY are the ones fucking this whole thing up. Fuck them and their shitshow. Jesus...just talking about not talking about it makes me angry.

>full frontal female klingon nudity, moaning, and Species (the film) tier interspecies sex montage of the Klingon torturer raping

Well, damn, now I actually have to watch it. Fuck you user!

...what episode? I'll just skip right to it.

As I said, it's the mid-season finale, which should be the latest one out.

It isn't hot though. They have the same shitton of makeup on during it, and have fake prosthetic ribs down their back, so it looks like a zombie is fucking a dude.

if you're not into by now don't bother continuing - it's not a show that grows on you. Like the other guy said, get the list of important episodes and leave it at that (The Q and Borg ones spring to mind).

>It's shit for all the same reasons that the new Star Wars is shit.
>the showrunners are aggressively adhering to the principle of 'we're going to do whatever we want. Fuck the fans if they don't like it'.

All I needed bro. Thanks for clarification.

Oddly enough, you didn't dissuade me. Decades on the internet have ruined me.

One more thing. The most insidious aspect of the aggressive push back from producers and show runners to fans who hate it comes in this form:

Producers: We're making a new Star Trek; it takes place just before Kirk, and it'll be great!
Fans: This doesn't stick to canon at all...there are lots of plot holes....why do the ships and uniforms look different?....nothing makes sense...
Producers: Don't worry, all the mysteries will be solved...just keep on watching. You never know...we might be in a mirror universe....
Fans: This is shit.
Producers: You see, your reaction to our show is PRECISELY why we need to MAKE this show. You hate it because you hate diversity, you hate change, and you're just unemployed boys who live in your parent's basements. Losers.

Same form of argumentation used against people who hate The Last Jedi. It's all the same....all the fucking same.

See? Look what you've done, now you've got me fucking started.

The problem with the timelines doesn't come from an artistic reason, it's due to different companies holding the rights to images from Star Trek. ST used to be held singly by Paramount and Paramount Pictures, but a split happened with Viacom around 2005 (or maybe 2007...somewhere around that time after Enterprise but before JAR JAR in 2009). The point is that now the movie rights are held by one company, and the tv show rights are held by another. This means that NO Star Trek we see can ever again be true to canon because the movies can't be consistent to the TV stuff and the TV stuff can't be consistent to the movies.

The producers claim this one takes place in the old Trek timeline, but this is a ruse to get old fans watching it. The problem with canon is what I said above; it doesn't matter what we as fans want it to be or observe it to be, the fact is that because the two properties are split we can no longer have a canon that agrees fully with the past. This means that all the visual and style changes you see HAVE to be done; they're not done because the producers are creative.

You're right, I almost don't believe it. But somehow the thought that CBS screwed it up that much isn't surprising.

So basically they've turned Star Trek into a SJW white beta cuck fantasy? Great...

The Mudd episode was the ONLY decent episode to date, and that's because (guess what) it followed the standard style and format of Star Trek. Episodic, everyone on the crew helps to solve the problem (i.e. they're a family rather than MIchael Burnham being the fucking center of the universe), and it has a somewhat 'whimsical' ending that, sadly, doesn't make much sense (like the rest of fucking STD).

No, the new theme music is NOT good. While it's useless on this board to analyze what is precisely wrong with it in terms of music (harmonic analysis, melody writing, etc.), in layman's terms it is constructed poorly, breaking musical rules 'just because' rather than for any existential reason (which usually indicates a serious lack of education). It will never be as remarkable as the themes to TNG, DS9, VOYAGER, or ST. VIII (First Contact)...those themes are masterful in terms of their construction. But this theme? It's shit, like the opening visuals (which are stupid for many reasons).

The show is far from perfect. It's not good. It's not Star Trek. Don't listen to ; his opinions are woefully ill-informed.

>better once Seven comes on board
this. star trek needs a data/spock-like character

Discovery has absolutely no sense of optimism, comraderie, exploration, wonder, humor, or looking forward to a brighter future. But hey, other than that, it's just like the Star Trek you know and love.

Sorry...I got carried away there. I'm done. You wanted to talk about Voyager...

Going through it last year was tough...there are some things in the series that you dread seeing again, and you know they'll come back. The characters really don't go anywhere, and the producers couldn't solve the problem with Voyager which is 'how do we deal with a potential for getting us home in a way that doesn't seem like the Captain is failing the crew?' For years so many potential ways of getting home, and Janeway keeps on fucking it up. At least they deal with that issue later on, but still...it's fucking frustrating to watch.

The Doctor is easily the best character, and is played very well. Everyone else is a little Qui-Gon Jin....too moderate, all the time.

If you feel like you need Star Trek, watch it...the production value is similar if not better to TNG...it's just that the writing doesn't go anywhere and you might get bored of the characters....

ummm

There are some gems in there. I liked the Year of Hell episodes. That should have been how the entire show was handled.

But Tuvok didn't act in that function, questioning humanity. He was just the token vulcan.

I honestly can't remember any time that he actively argues with the crew, or tries to show them that his logical ways are better. Furthermore, there is no one arguing with him, either.

What made Spock or Data work is that there was something to actively disagree with them (with Spock it was McCoy, with Data it was Pulaski and then sometimes LaForge, though not in as much an adversarial way as Pulaski was). The point is, the argument between the two (logic vs. emotion) would illuminate the human struggle (which is always to balance the two).

No one argues with Tuvok. With Seven, she is actively hostile to Janeway for the first year or so when she comes on board...so there's actual story and actual drama. And her body, of course.

STD isn't star trek

It did. Two parter with the Borg where they go back to Earth

No bait but there's a consolation you

did you not like eye of the needle? romulan wormhole one?

Hrmm yeah I get the feeling he was meant to be antagonistic with chakotay and they just never went for it for some reason.

Well, they didn't know what to do with Chakotay at all, and as the series goes on, he (amazingly!) becomes even more boring than before.

I think they mostly wrote his role out of the show out of fear.

DS9 may have better writing and better characters but VOY is more stimulating to the mind and a lot comfier. "Scorpion" is one of the best episodes in all of Trek and Seven's character arc through the next couple seasons is the pinnacle achievement of Trek character development. It's what the modern era of Trek was leading to and it's what you come to Trek for, to grapple with that difficult problem of technology dehumanizing us while at the same time exalting us and wondering where it's all going. What's going to happen to me? What if I do get raped by the Borg? Made to do the most horrible and disgusting things? And furthermore be made to like it? To make myself fight to get back to it, unless I'm kindly assimilated by a random Federation starship that got lost insanely far from home on a fluke? That's hard stuff, man.

I agree with you, however a single character can't carry an ensemble cast.

Janeway - does nothing, grows nowhere.
Chakotay - starts boring, gets more boring
Neelix - has minor problem with Kes until she goes, then he stays the same.
Tuvok - exactly the same all the way
Harry Kim - exactly the same all the way
Paris and B'elana - The same, then they do the same together.

The Doctor and Se7en are the only ones who change, grow, and evolve. But the Doc is there from the beginning, so that's why I say he's the only one worth watching.

STVOY is just the 1990s grrrrrlpower version of STD. Too politically correct and inoffensive, albeit in a passive aggressive 1990s way, to ever really be interesting science fiction. It's pretty uniformly lazily written trash from start to finish. It won't get better and will usually get much worse.

The Orville is the spiritual successor to Star Trek. Watch that and give it a chance all the way to the third episode as that is when it really starts coming together.

My personal ranking, if anyone cares:
1. DS9
2. TNG
3. Orville
4. TOS
5. ENT
6. VOY
7. Discovery

2-4 are tightly packed at the moment. From the standpoint of being interesting and episode quality, the best episodes of Orville are currently nipping at the heels at the (really good) later seasons of TNG. I think Orville will improve to the point it surpasses DS9, eventually, if Fox doesn't kill it. There is a huge gap between ENT and the top 4, but ENT was a solid space adventure series if nothiing else. There is another huge gap between ENT and VOY...VOY is just pure trash. STD is rightfully far below the others, even VOY, like the sewer clogging shit it is.

Same on the first three but then
4. ENT
5. TAS/TOS
6. Discovery
7. VOY

It has a few good episodes. Just suck it up.

Its alright it never hits any of the highs of TNG or DS9 but it has its moments, i suppose its biggest problem is its writing than its cast. Don't get me wrong janeway is great and so is the doctor but they never have the backing of the supporting cast enough to lift the sub par writing, I mean look at TNG it has about 176 episodes and probable about 90 of those are great, of those 90 how many of them are held up completely by Picard and his stellar supporting cast?

Also I like kes, she was a decent metaphor for feminism that never had a chance to be fully realized. Yeah 7 is hot and jeri is a decent actress but Kes really was something under utilized.

I just thought Kes was hot. But the problem with her character was that she was becoming a God...you can't have one on board, nor can you have one that could potentially send you all the way home. They wrote themselves into a corner with that one.

Given her 'lifespan', she should have stayed with the crew until season 7, where she would die. But, we all know why that didn't happen.

90 great TNG episodes? no way, it's like 50

oh yeah kes was fine fo sho, but I think they could've done more with her. Come on a being with an immense amount of power for a laughably short amount of time? The whole thing could be a metaphor for the way women are perceived as "Valuable" only for their looks or their ability to have children. It would've been interesting to see them work with those metaphors in episodes but no the writers were only allowed to do half baked scifi plots that wrap themselves up in a nice bow after an hour. Hell they could've done something similar with 7 if they didn't immediately get her in a catsuit the moment she became a cast member

Hmm...

Season 1 - about 2 or 3
Season 2 - about 3 or 4
Season 3 - about 12
Season 4 - about 15
Season 5 - about 15
Season 6 - about 17
Season 7 - about 14

=

approx. 66? That's how I'd call it. But 'great episode' is relative, of course....

The first few seasons were really rough. The last few seasons were God tier. The finale was how every series should end.

Red Dwarf and Babylon 5 are better than anything Star Trek related

It's shit, the only good character are the doctor and seven. The writing is terrible

The concept is interesting and some nostalgia creeps in to make it bearable (OH HEY THE BORG I REMEMBER THEM!) but its bad.

DS9/TNG = God Tier
TOS = Incosistent but sometimes great, and original
ENT / VOY = both shit with some minor redeeming characters and episodes

STD = FUCK THIS YOU HAVE MILLIONS OF FANS WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT AND LOVE THE CONTENT MORE THAN YOU, HIRE THEM OR LISTEN TO THEM

Life comes at you fast.

...

Agreed. But I seem to enjoy episodes in the early seasons that a lot of people seem to hate.

In season 1, I really like 'Where no one has gone before'..it's very much old TOS. Datalore and 11001001 are also very enjoyable. But I only have '2 or 3' because the standouts to me are Coming of Age and Conspiracy. It's not that Datalore isn't good...but for me it's not 'great'.

I count the other seasons like this, and also I think I'm a little more generous about season 7, which again has detractors. I like most if not all of it, even Sub Rosa. The only ones I really hate in season 7 are the damn Masks episode, Dark Page, and Liasons.

We all have our favorites...

Sadly, it gets worse....she's been in jail several times, most recently for exposing herself to children....

It's sad. I sometimes wonder if she would have turned out differently had they not gotten rid of her from Voyager.

Even though I enjoy VOY, it is a very example of wasted potential, so I won't refute your points, just add my own perspective.

Janeway is a tragic hero and this isn't explored much, but we do get that one superb episode, "Counterpoint" as well as "Night" where she just locks herself in her quarters punishing herself for her decision to destroy the caretaker array. That gives us at least something to understand the emotional challenges she has to defeat and hide away in every other episode that we don't see her face them on screen.

Chakotay started out as a bad guy and had to become a good guy. I think it just happened a little too quickly. His best episodes are when he gets to be bad again and you wonder how close he is to actually being bad again all the other times. Also his identifying with white separatists from the 90s was pretty cool.

Neelix gets that nanoprobe death episode and a great finish with Homestead. I think his path from guide to bad cook to morale officer that no one likes to fucking Federation ambassador to an entire quadrant was a very dynamic change for just a plain simple man.

Tuvok was boss. That he didn't change was his achievement because he was always facing shit. "Alter Ego" is a god tier underrated episode and he had others like "Worst Case Scenario" and "Deathwish" that just show him going up against incredible foes and being cool about it. His nemesis is the ordinary man (Neelix).

Kim is comedically the same. Grows up a little. He has "Timeless."

Paris gets a good line near the end, when Kim asks him if he wants to get home, and Paris just says, "I am home, Harry."

B'elana, where to begin. I just want to hug her.

Seasons 2-4 of Babylon 5 are some of the best television in history, let alone the genre.

They're just so inaccessible, even for sci-fi fans, some of it is asking a bit much, especially the DVDs which aren't even released in broadcast quality.

It gets decent around Season 4 when Seven of Nine comes aboard and Kes fucks off.