Hyperspace Ramming RUINED STAR WARS FOREVER

Hyperspace Ramming RUINED STAR WARS FOREVER

Let's start with some basic physics:
E = MC^2

This simple formula, known as the mass-energy equivalence, states that the equivalent energy (E) can be calculated as the mass (m) multiplied by the speed of light (c = about 3×108 m/s) squared. Similarly, anything having energy exhibits a corresponding mass m given by its energy E divided by the speed of light squared c2.

In layman's terms, this means even a rock the size of a pebble, travelling at light speed or close to light speed, generates enough energy to destroy objects much larger than itself. The greater an object's energy, the greater its mass.

In previous SW canon until VIII, hyperspace was explained as a separate dimension of sorts, unlike the Star Trek "folding" of space-time (warp speed), hyperspace travel was simply a "shortcut" between two points through subspace.

This explanation was given to account for the lack of ships or missiles ramming other ships at relativistic speeds.

However, now VIII created a massive plothole and there is no way to justify or save this mess. How can we account for the lack of hyperspace missiles?

One of the reasons I have always loved Star Wars over Star Trek is that it's a show that never took itself too seriously on its science, while at the same time it avoided commiting basic physics mistakes (Force-powers aside). In contrast, Star Trek was a much more pretentious show, that claimed to be scientifically-literate while in fact committing much more terrible scientific mistakes than Star Wars, and obvious to anyone with some basic scientific knowledge.

Now, not only Star Wars has commited a terrible scientific mistake but also created a massive plothole as we cannot account for the lack of relativistic hyperspace missiles for over the thousands of years of previous Star Wars history.

Star Wars is ruined forever.

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Autsim

Fuck off nerd

Nobody gives a shit about real science in a fucking childrens space war movies.

Try reading the entire post brainlet

Funny then how so many people defend nuLuke and his fall as being "more realistic"

>when the shills get there fast
Good post, OP
Maybe some brainlets with be helped

Is it possible that they were close enough that the ships were close enough and Holdo was able to hit it as she was entering hyperspace but wasn't quite in it yet?

>Star Wars is ruined forever.

Yep. Don't forget we'll get the following in Episode 9

>Finn: That sure is a lot of First Order ships... why don't you just Hyperspace ram them, Poe

>Poe: That's a good question Finn, ever since Brave and powerful Admril Holdo Hyperspace Rammed Snoke's personal ship, the First Order created "Hyperwave fields" meaning anything travelling at Lightspeed just bounces off

>Finn: Damn, what a shame

>LOL WHO CARES ABOUT PLOTHOLES AND GOOD STORYTELLING AMIRITE?
Fuck off mousewars shill

Jesus christ, you people are manchildren. Manchildren soyboys and manchildren autists.

too long, OP
If hyperspace ramming is so effective why there's no weapon when HS drives are cheap and they put it literally on fighter ships?
why would you lose fighters when you can ram them unmanned and one-shot destroyers
and the cruiser fucking rekt the whole fleet

That's the point... if hyperspace ramming is possible, then why aren't both sides making hyperspace missiles that can destroy dreadnoughts and capital ships just by launching them from far away worlds?

that's what everyone is saying, for what was a cool visual... you have a broken universe now.

by the general sci-fi terms I'd say this kind of hyperspace should make you extra-vulnerable, like, you're dead if you go in hyper-mod through anything remotely firm because you're squished because anything hits you like a truck
either this or jump through sub-dimension, but weaponizing hyperscape is literally ultraretarded

except most of the audience just saw a big cool looking flashy scene, and don't stop to go BUT WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS FOR STAR WARS CANON?

Episode 7 killed Star Wars.

8 is just necrophilia.

Supermary Poppins Leia and weaponizing hyperspace has officially pushed Disney Wars into fanfic territory. It is literally lorebreaking to a point where the previously established universe no longer makes sense in that context.
>leia can ex machina herself back to life while floating unprotected in the vacuum of space
>luke dies from being tired
No one should consider this official canon.

...

>a pebble, travelling at light speed or close to light speed, generates enough energy to destroy objects much larger than itself.
No it doesn't. If you plug a velocity greater than c into the relativistic kinetic energy equation you get a complex number. In other words, you get total utter nonsense.

Once you introduce ftl you've thrown physics out the window.

>Star Trek was a much more pretentious show, that claimed to be scientifically-literate while in fact committing much more terrible scientific mistakes than Star Wars
Glad you recognize this at least. Trek really is worse than Wars in the science department.

btw superleia was easier for me to accept because force-users are known to be able to use force instead of breathing (decompression issue though, but whatever) and also in no-gravity it should be easy to pull once (except the fact that she'd never pulled anything before) but as I've said - that I could accept, but hyperweapon is not related to superrare force users, it's widespread, that's disgusting

Star Wars' hyperspace technology was an elegant solution to the narrative requirement for a FTL propulsion system that couldn't be weaponized.

Ships in Star Wars never actually go faster than the speed of light while in realspace. They use a hyperdrive to "jump" into, then move through, hyperspace; a parallel dimension in which they could travel faster than light. While in hyperspace, ships do not interact with objects in realspace, so relativistic collisions are avoided.

HOWEVER.
If a ship in hyperspace passes through the gravity well of a large object like a planet, star, or sufficiently powerful artificial emitter, it would be pulled back into realspace, possibly colliding with the large object *at sub-light speeds*. This is what Han Solo was referring to when he warned Luke about the importance of calculating vectors before making "the jump".

Additionally, the defensive shields of ships in Star Wars were robust enough to render sub-lightspeed ramming an ineffective tactic.

>defensive shields of ships in Star Wars were robust enough to render sub-lightspeed ramming an ineffective tactic

but I thought the opposite - shields have absolutely no resistance vs kinetic weapons - that's why bombers are effective and you can fly inside ships through shield which was done many times

mouse shill

a small rock traveling at 0.99c is basically the equivalent of the strongest hydrogen bomb.

I suppose. "She's force sensitive" is still a copout though. That means anyone who's force sensitive could survive im space. Her powers were never explained either. Nobody in movie even asks how the fuck she could do that.

>scientifically-literate
I don't think Trek ever claimed that.

we may assume tho, that through all those years between ROTJ and TFA she occasionally pulled some quirks, so her closest colleagues are somewhat expecting that when it goes to hell Leia starts to do stuff like that

> the speed of light (c = about 3×108 m/s)

>hurrrdirrr my story about light swords and space wizards doesn’t adhere to my physics
You’re a dumb fucking nigger if THIS is your problem with the film

Iirc, Star Wars has several types of deflector shields, one variety stops physical/kinetic attacks, another stops energy attacks.
Example
>The exhaust shaft is ray shielded (protected against blaster fire), so you'll have to use proton torpedos (physical objects)

give and example of kinetic shields please?
I can remember only the Rogue one planet shield
Anakin was able to enter the droid base same as Kylo was able to fly inside the hangar freely
Bombers never give a fuck about shields

It's unironically the biggest problem with the movie since it's lorebreaking to an extreme degree. It would be like if Frodo has thrown the Ring into his fireplace and it had melted. It makes no sense in the context of the universe. Character assassination is one thing but not caring about the rules of the universe your making a movie about is disrespectful and creates more problem for future movies. I can tell you with 100% certainty that a stunt like this will never be pulled again.
But it's very clear that Rian Johnson doesnt give a shit about Star Wars and it shows.

Saw this last night. Some fucker from 2013 already had this shit down pat.
Is talking about the general risks of contacting or alerting alien civilizations to our presence,
but focuses on "relativistic rockets" as the primary method of attack that it's likely to invite.

One you have this tech.This tactic. Everything else is bullshit.
It may even be that Interdictors can't stop a lightspeed weapon if it is
still able to re-enter normal space at some decent percentage of lightspeed before striking it's target.

Also, a reminder that the Dark Empire comics included a "hyperspace cannon" as an ultimate weapon and did all this back around 1990. But they limited the technique to extremely specialized and rare technology. Not as something any spacefag could knock up with an old hyper-drive and an asteroid, and maybe a suicidal droid to drive it. It was something that had been developed in secret over a long time and only one faction had it, and it was lost once the heroes destroyed it.

If a SW movie had brought up such an idea, the ENTIRE PLOT of that trilogy would be a mad
scramble by each side in the conflict to either own the tech outright and establish galactic
dominance, or find a way to render it useless or create a political detente of some kind.
Literally every other conflict based on moral or ideological outlook would become secondary to
getting ahead of this game changing concept. This is the core of SciFi writing.
Introduce an idea, explore how it shapes the universe you've set your story in.

It's why Lucas made Lightsabers rare Jedi-self-builds. Putting a hard cap on their availability.
Otherwise battles would involve firing Saber-Shurikens at enemies to breach hulls or cut through any armor before bothering with regular laser blasts.

You wouldn't even need the Death Star.
A small missile travelling at relativistic FTL speeds could destroy an entire planet.

>HURR DON'T THINK JUST LOOK AT THE PRETTY PICTURES NOTHING MATTERS COME BACK IN 2 YEARS AND SHOVEL SOME MORE POPCORN IN YOUR FUCKING STUPID FAT FACES YOU MONEYPIGS

This is you.

Which begs the question: why didnt the rebellion use hyperspace ramming on the deathstar?

>This simple formula, known as the mass-energy equivalence, states that the equivalent energy (E) can be calculated as the mass (m) multiplied by the speed of light

This is true if mass is created or destroyed, such as in a nuclear powerplant.

>In layman's terms, this means even a rock the size of a pebble, travelling at light speed or close to light speed, generates enough energy to destroy objects much larger than itself. The greater an object's energy, the greater its mass.

WRONG
The relationship you are looking for is kinetic energy = (mass * velocity^2)/2. Also you would never say that you are increasing somethings mass because you are increasing it's energy, you'd be increasing it's speed except in very very edge cases like pair production.

Also han solo is very clearly shown to make slight adjustments to his trajectory to avoid hitting objects and it's said that the jump to hyperspeed is impossible in an asteroid field.

>obvious to anyone with some basic scientific knowledge.

ironic...

It seems like spaceship hangars employ a low level physical shield, enough to retain atmosphere but still permit ships to come and go.

The Death Star II was protected by a what was probably both an energy and physical shield, based on how Lando ordered his attack wing to pull away until the generator was destroyed. The Imperials we're jamming the Rebel's attempts to detect a shield's presence, so it seems likely that part of the trap at Endor involved tricking the first wave of Rebel ships into crashing into their still functional shields.

>Also, a reminder that the Dark Empire comics included a "hyperspace cannon" as an ultimate weapon and did all this back around 1990.

If you're referring to the Galaxy Gun, I seem to recall that the weapon fired enormous warheads equiped with hyperdrives. But it was the warhead that did the damage, not the kinetic energy, since the projectile would drop out of hyperspace before hitting its target.

You are absolutely correct. Also, how come none of the critics are calling Johnson out on his "ham-fisted use of symbolism" when he has his martyr character walking around literally wearing a halo the entire movie?

Yes, Han says the jump can't be done at an asteroid field because he could crash at *sublight speed* while making the jump, destroying his own ship.

In the movie Holdo crashes into a giant dreadnought, with presumably very strong shields, at *hyperspace speed*, destroying it.

Big difference. Holdo actually makes the jump and still crashes/impacts the ship, this is a breaking point from previous SW canon and creates a massive plothole.

The rest of your post is pedantic nitpicking of technical terms, and besides the point, which is that hyperspace missiles travelling at relativistic speeds could destroy objects much greater than themselves, thus there is no explanation to why they haven't been invented so far.

That doesn't really change anything. All that means is that every battle would be about setting up the conditions that would make that possible.

shut up nerd

>This is true if mass is created or destroyed, such as in a nuclear powerplant.
Mass is energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only take on different forms. Ergo, mass is never created or destroyed.Did you by any chance fail HS physics?

E=mc^2

See that "E" on the left hand side of the equation? It stands for energy, which the equation equates with velocity and mass; from this equivalence, it follows that mass is inexplicably tied to energy and vice versa.
>ironic...
Indeed.

Not him, but I'd like to add that the whole deal with gravity wells would still apply to asteroid fields as well, considering they contain objects of sufficient mass to have significant gravity wells of their own. Since their location would be nearly impossible to predict given the chaotic orbits they'd have, it explains both why you don't jump while inside an asteroid field, nor would you plot a Hyperspace course that took you through one.

Of course, Nu-Wars ruined that aspect of Hyperdrives, too, as you can now make jumps both into as well as out of Hyperspace while essentially planetside.

Once again, thanks Disney.

>Now, not only Star Wars has commited a terrible scientific mistake but also created a massive plothole as we cannot account for the lack of relativistic hyperspace missiles for over the thousands of years of previous Star Wars history.

StarWars is about the centrality of its female characters OP.

>...the speed of light (c = about 3×108 m/s) squared
> 3×108 m/s
>108 m/s

American Education

Why are you dits even trying to be physics nerds?

You do realize space combat has always been broken, because massive relativistic damage happens at fractions of lightspeed anyway?

Just moving around within a star system at any useful speed in Sci Fi would turn anything of significant mass into a devastating weapon.

>3×10^8

Which is exactly why there were rules as to why it wouldnt work in the star wars universe.
Rian Johnson just doesnt give a shit.

Funny how we didn't see them zipping from planet to planet without hyperdrives, isn't it? It's almost like their sublight engines don't provide anything remotely close to relativistic speed, huh?

Again, it broke the rules you've all made up in your heads, for a fantasy world which was always incompatible with reality.

Plenty of times in the movies, a planet will be barely within viewing distance, and within moments they are entering the atmosphere or docking on the Death Star which is the size of a moon. Do you realize the scale of such a distance and the speed that requires? No, because you're an idiot.

Incompatible with reality? Oh yeah. Totally. Inconsistent with its own setting? Not until Disney.

Stop defending short-sighted, shit writing. Trust me, you'll come out with your nose significantly less bloody.

You're just exposing your own ignorance at this point.

But what about the A-Wing Pilot that rammed into the SSD and blow up the whole ship in RoTJ?

Who's defending shit writing? That's problem with you self smug dorks. You are so full of yourselves that you just assume people are "dismissing legitimate viewpoints", like this is a debate for the ages.

No, you are not intelligent, this is embarrassing and childish.

>Trust me, you'll come out with your nose significantly less bloody.

Holy shit, don't slap me with your katana.

>hyperspace was explained
Hyperspace was never explained. It was lightspeed warp factor less than 12 parsecs Kessel Run mumbo jumbo. Remember, EU is non-canon.

Was that intentional?

Heres what should have happened
youtube.com/watch?v=RZjhxuhTmGk

DUDE JUST LIKE, TURN OFF YOUR BRAIN BRO!

IIRC the pilot's engine got blown out so he steered himself into the SSD's bridge.

Found the Vid
youtube.com/watch?v=ETFNSVNQqfE

Here's a legitimate viewpoint for you, dipshit. If it can be done, if it was always something that could be weaponizes? Why wasn't it a standard tactic? Where are the hypermissiles? Why isn't every hyperdrive in existence under tight control by the Empire? By the Republic before them?

Why is anyone ever building super weapons when they can buy them by the truckload at the local junkyard?

It's almost as if someone figured out that allowing your FTL convention to be something you can weaponizes breaks the entire premise. Fucking imbecile.

He blew up the bridge, not the whole fucking thing.

I was under the impression it was more like phasing into a reality where distances are shorter, like 40k or whatever. Either way the fact that hyperdrive ramming can work does raise questions that make every space battle seem like nonsense that could have been quickly solved by droid suicide pilots or god forbid torpedos

I was mistaken on that but
>Ram into bridge
>Whole ship goes down

Not sure why people are complaining now when ramming has been around since RoTJ

trolled hard

An Xwing hitting a planet at FTL speed would be an extinction level event.

Completely makes the deathstars worthless, just slap a hyperdrive on a TIE fighter and you can end galactic civilization.

>I was only pretending to be retarded

No, no you weren't.

Fuck a Tie-Fighter. Find a big rock. Not like they're hard to come by, and it don't get any cheaper than free.

That's exactly what it is. The appearance of ships shrinking into the distance is more them zipping off into Hyperspace through what's essentially an invisible tunnel.

Using kamikaze tactics is absolutely a thing in-universe. I was under the impression the destruction of the Executor was mostly luck, as the secondary bridge or autopilot or whatever couldn't recover from the Death Star's gravity well. The difference with this is it isn't a final "fuck you" but a tactic that can atomize pretty much any ship with ease.

From the perceptive of the "Resistance" who has as many ships as you can count on one hand. I'm sure doing that is not economically feasible and now that it's been done once. The FO will either stop using such large ships or stop them before they have the chance to.

In Star Wars plenty things don't make sense at all. Like how the opening scene of RoTS you see both sides fighting in such close range to each other and even fighting like like old naval ships. As cool as it looks. It makes not sense with the level of technology they have.

All the ranged weapons in Star Wars fire projectiles that are slower than bullets, it makes sense for them to be fighting so close

All they'd have to do is refocus their efforts on getting ships instead of creating a standing military force. They'd basically just be straight up terrorists at that point though since all they'd be doing is highjacking ships and blowing shit up

Get your sci-fi out of my space opera, nobody cares nerd.

Space Opera refers to soap opera in space, like star trek. You mean space fantasy, but you're still a fag.

Yeah, the dude taking out the SDS bridge was like a million-to-one shot. That's sort of what differentiates it from a tactic that requires nothing but pointing your ship at the other guy and just dropping the hammer on your hyperdrive. It's absolutely beyond retarded, and I don't care what sort of ass-pull they use to try to explain it.

I'm going to make an attempt to coin a phrase here. Let's call it "The Law of Cumulative Asspulls." It's basically this:

>The more asspulls you have to make to establish a story convention, the more incredulous your audience will become.

With that in mind, Lucas and his team gave us this: "There is FTL in Star Wars, but it's short-cutting across another dimension, and it can't be used from too deep inside a gravity well. Passing through a gravity well will yank you out of that dimension and most likely kill you." Not too terrible to buy into as sci-fi conventions go, right?

Here's what Disney gave us. "There is FTL in Star Wars and it can be used as a deadly relativistic weapon, but in spite of the fact that the tech has existed for thousands of years, not only has no one ever mentioned it as a battle tactic, but no one purpose-builds weapons to employ it. Beyond even that, all concerned characters seem to be aware of the destructive potential, but again no one has ever employed it in any known battle in the entire history of the franchise, and none of the surviving characters evince any trepidation over the fact that it has been used in such a manner."

Long story, short: they just pissed on our heads and told us it was raining. They can't undo this. All the subsequent asspulls it takes to explain all that increasingly tells people just how little actual thought they devoted to this.

>hijacking vehicles and driving them at high speeds into things
hmmmm

>Quote from a white man on her wall

This is the power of black pride?

I don't think I was being subtle here

its just too absurd. the falcon went to hyperspace literally inside another ship, in just the last movie

i understand the "you dont know how hyperdrive works" stance but its literally established within the universe of the movie that it doesnt work that way

She didn't ram the destroyer in hyperspace you moron, she made a short hyperspace jump, and the resulting damage was caused by the cruiser's inertia entering normal space.

If it worked remotely like how they show it in TLJ, the Falcon would have superheated the atmosphere in that hangar to plasma.

Still begs the question of why you couldn't build a missile for that exact purpose. Remember, this attack bypasses shields and is undodgeable.

who cares star wars isn't real you autist

Rural retarded guys are not allowed in Sup Forums

come to think of it, i dont think lasers exist in star wars? that would explain the plasma weapons and manual aiming

Biggest problem with that scene is that both she and her surrounding debris field were just floating there stationary relative to the rest of the ship. Why? Did they coast to a stop? In space? It wouldn't have been an itty-bitty Force-tug to get her back. It would have been a substantial Force-pull to overcome the velocity with which she exited the ship.

Ask the writers. They didn't ruin hyperspace travel and that's the whole point in OP's autistic rant.

Fuck off. He wasn't asking you.

This was always one of my biggest problems with Star Trek. To solve the problem of the episode or movie, they'd come up with some radical new technobabble solution, jury rig it, and never mention it again even though it was game-changing technology in some way. That's the exact feeling I got from this scene.

just turn your brane off

EP III when they have to blow the shields to actually enter the hangar on the first scenes

along with tracking through lightspeed - there is no reason to use it as an escape as it just means they will show up immediately

Very accurate.

At relativistic speeds you need to use

E=mc^2 / sqrt(1 - v^2 / c^2) - mc^2

Newtonian physics become less accurate the closer you get to the speed of light.

Indefensible, isn't it?

>In previous SW canon until VIII, hyperspace was explained as a separate dimension of sorts
literally the very first star wars movie han has to calculate the path they will travel in hyperspace so they don't collide with an asteroid
checkmate you retarded autistic misogynistic fuck

>Lucas made Lightsabers rare
not in the PT

>The rest of your post is pedantic nitpicking
Hmmmmm.

>"But Admiral Leia, why don't we just hyperspace ram the fleet like Admiral Holdo did in the last movie?"
>"Foolish Poe. Hyperspace ramming requires precision mathematics and calculation, too advanced even for an AI to compute. Only a strategic genius like Admiral Holdo was and will ever be capable of such a feat."