Christopher Priest opinion about Sup Forums assholes that shitting on Lazarus Contract

>So, I’m reading all of this hoopla online about the Titans crossover event and how terribly I handled Damian and OG Wally and why didn’t I know this thing happened on page 6 of Obscure Comics #12 back in 2004. Okay, I heard you.

>And now what? So, Damian is (apparently) no longer a little shit. He is thoughtful and more mature and less impulsive, less self-centered. Great. I got it wrong. And now what? What do we do with a character after we’ve smoothed out all of the rough edges and rounded off all the corners?

>Wally *doesn’t* have a heart problem. Gotcha. And now what? How do we make OG Wally relevant or even interesting? I’m not trying to pick a fight or insult anybody, I’m really asking: and now what? What do the fans actually want? They seem to want their heroes to be perfect and problem-free.

>They also seem to want the writers, or at least me, to have read a decade worth of comics before putting their favorite characters into a story. I don’t have time to read 100 comics. I don’t know any working writer who does. I can read, maybe, ten. And I will portray the character the way he or she is being portrayed now, today, currently, not what was done years or even months before.

>It’s entirely possible that I’m missing the point fans are trying to make. I *am* listening, but this is a mystery to me. The impression I am forming is fans want their characters to evolve into flat, lifeless droids who, I guess, have adventures wherein their decisions are always spot-on, they are always portrayed in a heroic light, and nobody ever gets damaged. I don’t intend that to be mean-spirited. That literally is my takeaway from all the crosstalk I am seeing.

Other urls found in this thread:

lamerciepark.com/wp/?p=606
lamerciepark.com/wp/?p=597
community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?96241-Teen-Titans-Annual-1-The-Lazarus-Contract-Special-Finale/page14
lamerciepark.com/wp/?p=5
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>The extreme distortions– calling my and my colleagues’ work “garbage” –doesn’t help. Arguably, some fans reacted strongly to the stresses we put their favorite characters through. But to suggest that no part, not one scene or one page of the Titans crossover was any good– is just silly. This is the sad byproduct of our zero-sum society, wherein everybody has to be polarized to the extreme of everyone else. Disagreeing with how I portray Potato Man does not, in fact, make me an actual Nazi.

>So, somebody help me out. I’m sure many fans gripe about DC or Marvel not listening to them. Well, I’m listening. It’s important to me, to my job, to figure out what fans want and do my best to provide that while not boring them to death by actually giving them exactly what they want.

>But is no-drama Wally really what they want? If so, then what? Is well-balanced, non-tempestuous Damian what they want? If so, then what? What do we do? What stories do we write about these characters once they’ve shed the very characteristics that made us love them in the first place?

>With all possible respect to my friend Tim Seely, my former mentor Marv Wolfman, Devin Grayson, Geoff Johns and others, I find Dick Grayson to be the most boring Wonder Bread boilerplate character ever to pull on spandex. That’s just me. Tens of thousands of fans are *rabid* Dick Grayson fans. For the life of me, I couldn’t explain why. Grayson, in his various iterations, seems, to me, the ultimate expression of what I’m being harangued about around the web: the flattened-out character whose dealt with all of his shortcomings and character flaws. I see Grayson and I wonder, “And now what?”

>Is that what fans want– Damian to be indistinguishable from Grayson? Wally to have no challenges to overcome? And, if so, then what?

>I’m not trying to be sarcastic or even defensive. I’m trying to understand because, obviously, I’m missing something.

lamerciepark.com/wp/?p=606

>I ignored this characters previous character development because I didn't know how to write him interestingly except as an asshole.

Daily reminder that Priest is reading Sup Forums shitposting

“Priest is a hack and Deathstroke is overrated.” by Anonymous

“A nigger.” by Anonymous

“He’s also a self hating nigger”

lamerciepark.com/wp/?p=597

>>They also seem to want the writers, or at least me, to have read a decade worth of comics before putting their favorite characters into a story. I don’t have time to read 100 comics. I don’t know any working writer who does. I can read, maybe, ten. And I will portray the character the way he or she is being portrayed now, today, currently, not what was done years or even months before.
I guess he's talking more about Wally than Damian here.

Absolute madman.

How about not turning Wally into a pussy who shits his pants at the thought of fighting Deathstroke with superspeed?

Damian can be a little shit and not give people lifelong heart conditions

As if I didn't hate the industry enough as it is right now, autists pissing off Priest is the cherry on top of it all.

This sounds less Sup Forums (which generally has a favorable opinion of Priest) and more other sites, honestly. Minus OP who's obviously trying to stir up some (you)s.

Does DC not have primers or something editors give to writers about characters they want to write before they start writing? I don't expect the writer to read 100 comics of a character they write but I fully expect them to talk to or receive a condensed form or the info from the editor who has.

Priest wrote Damian really well in his own Deathstroke. I haven't been reading Lazarus Contract so I don't know what people are bitching about, but I think he has a handle on the character.

Is that what fans want– Damian to be indistinguishable from Grayson? Wally to have no challenges to overcome? And, if so, then what?
I WANT THAT HE WRITE THE BATBOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love damian because he is mean and cool .

Damian is still an arrogant shit, I don't get the whining he was written badly. At best he was a bit too douchey by immediately stopping past Wally's heart as a solution to the problem.

>Priest wrote Damian really well in his own Deathstroke. I haven't been reading Lazarus Contract so I don't know what people are bitching about, but I think he has a handle on the character.
This..I agree.

Oh shit, it's Damifag. Is this whole "Sup Forums assholes" thing just Damifag?

It's not like Damian shows up in the main bat books Damifag.

He did write him well. The crossover he probably just needed to tone it down a bit. Killing people at the drop of a hat and permanently disabling someone is too much.

They do but let's not pretend editors aren't sometimes
a) shit tasted
b) status quo dogs
c) dumb
d) all of the above

>tfw Damifag is pissing off Priest.
How can we get rid of this cancer?

He did say Batman and Iron Man are his instant YES'es but... I don't think I'd like him on Batman.

i love Priest.timfag i am his biggest fan 4 chan know that.

I feel like 98% of writers are out of touch with what the majority of fans want
at least I want just fun books
like fuck, Rebirth is all about nostalgia hype and happiness or whatever but most of the stories are still somewhat grimdark bullshit
I'd rather read a Superman Adventures story than almost anything coming out these days

People who think Priest's Deathstroke is God's gift to comics need to read this very carefully. What a fucking joke.

>>Grayson hating

giving the fans "what they want" is a dumb idea.

mister Priest is mad Because of timfag Atlanta96, community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?96241-Teen-Titans-Annual-1-The-Lazarus-Contract-Special-Finale/page14

Fuck off. Rebirth is just mindless Transformers tier fun. Read something stupid like Superman, Flash or gl. It's all fun with no substance.

Oh, I was wondering where are Dickfags

Anybody who psses off characterfags is God's gift to mankind.

This reminds me of the attitude Bob Haney used to have when he was writing Brave & The Bold: "If continuity conflicts with MY STORY, fuck continuity."

This attitude is lazy and self-serving. At the same time, a lot of fans go WAY too far with continuity.

Niggers gon' nig.
I know you're reading this, Priest. Mention me in your next blogpost pls

Holy SHIT.

timfag Atlanta96, He said worse things..>“Priest is a hack and Deathstroke is overrated.” by Anonymous
>“A nigger.” by Anonymous
>“He’s also a self hating nigger”
>lamerciepark.com/wp/?p=5
that is timfag. Priest know him

Priest has been actively using Deathstroke and his history and continuity in his run. I feel like he's just confused/protesting at the fan reaction, but direct interaction like this with fans is usually retarded but more fool him. He's still, as a comics writer, one of my absolute favorites and easily one of the best in cape comics right now.

Hating a character because there nice is edgy as shit and turning a character into a coward for the sake of giving them a flaw is retarded

Fun and substance aren't mutually exclusive, especially when it comes to superhero comics. This is a basic fact that everyone seems to have forgotten

>>I find Dick Grayson to be the most boring Wonder Bread boilerplate character ever to pull on spandex. That’s just me. Tens of thousands of fans are *rabid* Dick Grayson fans. For the life of me, I couldn’t explain why. Grayson, in his various iterations, seems, to me, the ultimate expression of what I’m being harangued about around the web: the flattened-out character whose dealt with all of his shortcomings and character flaws. I see Grayson and I wonder, “And now what?”

Hahahaah, fuckin Priest.

Not if he tells a shit story.

I don't know if Priest is just pushing back against the (no doubt overblown) criticism or if he really doesn't get how an unrepentant asshole of a 13 year old couldn't function as the leader of the Teen Titans. Honestly I figured Percy was writing all the Damian scenes. It's a little disappointing to know that it was Priest, given how out of character it all felt.

Damian is a little shit with a heart of gold. His challenge is his struggle against his nature to be an asshole. The common theme with Damian is that he fucks up on a big level, then owns up to his mistake and tries to make it right. Damian shat on Aqualad and other Wally. He kicked other Wally from the team. He 'killed' real Wally and gave him a heart condition. All in 4 issues. And never once stopped and thought, "hey, maybe I should tone it down," or "did I just fuck up?"

It's just the autistic characterfags and continuity loving Johnsfags. Titans and Robin fanbases are full of those. They need to have a few containment books for both to stop the cancer spreading to other books and have some fall guy like Lobdell and Humphries to write them.

But I thought he doesn't have time to read character's back stories when coming up with brilliant new ways for Deathstroke to be an asshole, like traveling back in time to kill his son over and over again?

Maybe that comes later?

Cass Cain used to stop and restart people's hearts every other issue, the precedent is there.

looks like priest seems a great writer for Marvel.
Writing characters and doing good comics is not everything about, let`s throw some personal problem so I can write about it if there are not then you can do anything.
Go read morrison JLA, you don`t have a superman worry about lois having an afair, flash with a heart disease or green lantern dealing with his mother in a assylum, not every comic has to be about personal problems, much less a team book.
I would say is the contrary, If you want to integrate those problems in a team book it has to be a hell of a book to handle it like New Teen Titans or Legion of Superheroes because if it is not it will feel bland and mediocre like the last run of teen titans and almost anyone before.
Is not good "wally has pacemaker" and mention it once every 3 numbers because of it, you need to develop it into something credible and integrated in the story, you need left the epic route and enter into the human side of the story which is quite difficult in a superhero team book because almost everyone place the "lets fight the super powerful bigger than the universe villain and his intricate malevolent plot" so you don`t have the time or space to develop the heart disease problem more than a "shit, I can`t run faster because my heart will explode...but my friend need it so I will take the risk",,,that is what fans are afraid, that the human problem angle will not evolve into a proper history, that the character will not get the treatment that deserve (he can have a pacemaker, but tell a good story about it) and probably it is a simple comic shenanigan to throw one or two lines that will not aport anything (besides ruining the character)

Crossovers are guaranteed shit. The only one to blame is yourself.

>>Bendis forgets small continuity like some literal who X men or some bizarre character development in X men #316481
>Sup Forums spergs out
>Costa forgets and ignores some obscure Eddie Brock facts/development from 10 years ago
>Sup Forums speeds out
>Pries turns Wally into a scaredy cat with hear problems ignoring anything about the character from the last 20 years while shitting on Dick
>>"THANK YOU BASED BLACKMAN,CONTINUITY IS FOR LOSERS"

explain yourselves faggots

As if I didn't hate the industry enough as it is right now, a wildly overrated author being so full of himself and out of touch with reality as to respond to what the internet has to say about his work (especially when they have valid criticisms) is the cherry on top.

Are you kind of retarded or something, senpaitachi?

>He 'killed' real Wally and gave him a heart condition
He did not know that would happen the flash guy Have self-healing..

>And never once stopped and thought, "hey, maybe I should tone it down," or "did I just fuck up?"

No, but he did act nice towards Raven rather be a demanding dick when they needed the power of friendship to help Wally.

Cass Cain used to also 'speak' body language. Cass Cain is stupid.

Because I felt the need to shit stir on the Internet as a "professional" author?

>The common theme with Damian is that he fucks up on a big level, then owns up to his mistake and tries to make it right
basically, repetitive trite.

DC should've left him dead.

>Cass Cain used to stop and restart people's hearts every other issue
Not on a teammate.

>Le "DC is Gods pretending to be men and Marvel is men pretending to be gods" meme.
Fuck off back to r/Mcu or r/rebirth.

TL;Dr

>DC should've left him dead.

Timfag now Even the writers hate you

The problem wasn't even how you used the characters Mr. Priest, problem is the story is inherently shit. By last issue you have a plausible setup even though we have ass pulled a lot of things by now (how does DS know about speed force, how does he have a machine that can siphon a power of speedster etc) but alright, it doesn't matter because it's a basic setup and I can sort of believe in it, the real problems come later where DS has now managed to master being a speedster with speed force power within minutes.
In the last issue also Damian know everything you needed him to know, did he read your script and I do mean that literally. The little shit was doing everything needed to be done to move the plot wherever it needed to go (how the fuck does he know about the mechanics of time travel).
Also the time travel shit was not thought out well enough and came out as if you made stuff up as you went along. So DS is going back in time and killing Grant again and again even before the Teen Titans of that era have a chance to meet him for the first time. This should theoretically change the timeline but it doesn't yet one time Damian punches Wally to stop his heart and suddenly he has heart disease. That's just a plot hole right there (and yes faggots, this is the proper use of the term).
Your DS has so far been amazing and well thought out and while the character arc for DS does make sense, the means of getting there, which is the whole story, is utterly devoid of quality and just plain nonsense.

Priest, stop whining. If you've read online reactions, you'd know some people also liked Lazarus, or at least, parts of it (specifically, the Deathstroke parts). So focus on that. You're not going to please everyone. You're not supposed to. You'll get shit on at times, too. It's fine. It's supposed to happen. It shouldn't worry you.You're writing a great book, that doesn't mean every aspect of it will be loved religiously by everyone.

That makes him a great Slade writer though.

It's just pretentiousness. They like pretending like reading "Deathstroke wants to hug his kids but instead decides to murder them" makes them above it all, despite their main hobby being shitposting instead of reading comics.

Murder is murder.

Justice League had Kyle constantly feel like he was way over his head on the League and couldn't fit the shoes left by Hal (lifted from his solo book), hence why he was bonding with Wally who had gone through the same thing after Barry died. Similar stuff happened with the other new members. The Trinity didn't do that shit because they had their own books for personal stories, they got to be the big guns shouldering the responsibility of the League and command

>this is the proper use of the term.
Congratulations, it actually is.

DC right now is already full of containment books.

Show one instance where she made someone need to have a pacemaker for the rest of their lives.

But this crossover happened. I don't need titans, Abnett and Percy spreading into good books.

but that is something you can through one time every 5 books and will stop the time you choose him to realize he is a good green lantern as anyone in his own way, the end.

Tim is shit. Robinfaggotry is cancer.

She killed Harper's mother..

His voice was very off even there. He didn't sound close to a high and mighty aristocrat, just a plain edgy 13 year old that shitposts on Sup Forums.

Dead people don't need pacemakers.

>Harper's mother
Who?

Post-Flashpoint is a shitshow and is not the DCU proper.

There's been stuff like JLI, ostrander's Spectre and Dixon's GA that dealt with personal stuff. Superman in the 90s was a full blown soap opera. You just need to read more stuff.

Yes because Deathstroke is an exception to bland ass rebirth and must be brought down.

This just goes to show Damian is one of the worst characters of all time. He is literally incapable of character development.

He has ONE character arc in him and that's it. Everyone knows it.

> I find Dick Grayson to be the most boring Wonder Bread boilerplate character ever to pull on spandex. That’s just me. Tens of thousands of fans are *rabid* Dick Grayson fans. For the life of me, I couldn’t explain why. Grayson, in his various iterations, seems, to me, the ultimate expression of what I’m being harangued about around the web: the flattened-out character whose dealt with all of his shortcomings and character flaws. I see Grayson and I wonder, “And now what?”
Please, never touch a nightwing book.
Now I know why nightwing seemed so off target in the crossover.

I don't think you understood the question

Good thing you told him that! He was just itching to get on the Nigthwing solo series but maybe your comments has changed his mind.

Who's got the time?

I can see why this guy worked at Marvel for so long.

>>So, I’m reading all of this hoopla online about the Titans crossover event and how terribly I handled Damian and OG Wally and why didn’t I know this thing happened on page 6 of Obscure Comics #12 back in 2004. Okay, I heard you.
>>And now what? So, Damian is (apparently) no longer a little shit. He is thoughtful and more mature and less impulsive, less self-centered. Great. I got it wrong. And now what? What do we do with a character after we’ve smoothed out all of the rough edges and rounded off all the corners?
>>Wally *doesn’t* have a heart problem. Gotcha. And now what? How do we make OG Wally relevant or even interesting? I’m not trying to pick a fight or insult anybody, I’m really asking: and now what? What do the fans actually want? They seem to want their heroes to be perfect and problem-free.
>They also seem to want the writers, or at least me, to have read a decade worth of comics before putting their favorite characters into a story
Yes. That is your job, and its an editors job to make sure you do.

>I don’t have time to read 100 comics. I don’t know any working writer who does. I can read, maybe, ten. And I will portray the character the way he or she is being portrayed now, today, currently, not what was done years or even months before.

Then you don't deserve to be writing part of a shared universe. DC needs to fire this motherfucker.

Tim drake is boring .That's the reason why he's dead.

>With all possible respect to my friend Tim Seely, my former mentor Marv Wolfman, Devin Grayson, Geoff Johns and others, I find Dick Grayson to be the most boring Wonder Bread boilerplate character ever to pull on spandex.
So can we all agreed that Priest is, dare I say,
/OURGUY/?

What pisses me off is there were some good points about how story wasn't actually good in the storytime threads but all of it was drown out in the echoes of characterfaggotry. And that's what Priest focused here, not the actual criticism but shitty characterfags.

What the fuck is this thread

Of course

If you mean a memer instead of someone who actually reads comics then yeah, he's your guy.

I am not seeing there is not good stuff treating personal stuff I am saying that is more difficult in a team book. And either I say it can not been done in a team book (and I exemplify with new teen titans and legion of super heroes and if you want add JLI or ostrander`s suicde squad).
But for every good team book with personal stuff you have ten that are awful and that is what fans are afraid, that you will touch a character in a team book and get 0 development after that.

Kek. He's right though. That's what happens when you have no good books, and all you get is shit like Dixon, Grayson, Higgins and Seeley. The only time Dick has been good is when he wasn't Nightwing.

What do you expect? characterfaggotry was always terrible and obnoxious but it's gotten even louder with rebirth.

A butt hurt author just discovered the internet apparently.

He reads comics, just not the shitty ones.

Sup Forums is in its majority Dickfag, so no. Also fuck off with your shitty meme.

I know don't they know that superhero comics aren't about the characters?

Damifag I hope when you get old enough to have your first period you hemmorage until you die

yep, right now I will look with suspicion every bat book he would.

What actual criticism tho?

Read his diatribe again slowly.

>hhur durr writing a character out-of-character is totally good and cool

Go back to indieshit

Timfag you make the world hate you..