From the very first time we see him, DCEU Supes is saving people.
Help me understand why people who ostensibly want a certain Supes actually HAVE that person, yet continually paint a false picture of a man who doesn't care about others?
I just do not understand, and after 4 years i'm beginning to doubt I will ever get an explanation.
So, will the real Mark Waid please stand up?
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the only thing that ever matters in any movie, tv show, or play the only thing that sticks with people is the last 10 minutes
think about the last 10 minutes of Man of Steel
that's why
>think about the last 10 minutes of Man of Steel
Where he saves the entire human race?
because he threw a train in his own home town and almost blew people up then in the fight with Zod turned Metropolis into a location from Fallout 4.
he treats saving people like a grinding 9 to 5 job that he hates
For the 2nd time in that film lol.
Not wanting to be seen as a savior=/=not liking being a good person
If it wasn't fulfilling he wouldn't do it you fool.
BvS is NOT deep and you losers still miss the point.
How? He goes out his way to savile folks. I MoS he left the ship to save the folks on the oil rig.
In BvS he was about to follow bruce but again left to save that little girl.
He enjoys saving folks, but you cant expect the shit folks ssy about him not to bother him.
this x10000000
Bro, tone.
>because he threw a train in his own home town
No he punched Non into the train yard to get him out of main street.
Non later threw the train at him.
See 3:59
youtube.com
imagine if he was the donner superman who always had service with a smile and always had time for a photo op before flying off to see how louis was doing
MoS was great, i thought WW and MoS were very similar
We already had 5 fucking movies with Donner Supes though.
>then in the fight with Zod turned Metropolis into a location from Fallout 4.
No only 1 skyscraper fell during their 1 on 1 fight in Metropolis and Clark did zero structural damage to it. Everything else was from the Black Zero or the crashing of the scout ship.
I did too. That's why I made this thread.
WW was excellent, but so was MoS. I am at a complete loss as to the perceived difference.
>I posted it again!
OP, we already know that you samefag and play both sides to shitpost about movies. Fuck off back to Sup Forums.
Donner Superman had everyone sucking his cock and was the biggest dork.
Because it seems like it's a huge fucking burden
His character is one of the dullest I've seen in a cape movie. Everything cool about him are the setpieces. Take the S off his chest and no one would give two shits about him. This incarnation has no redeeming qualities on his own that make him stand out as a character. Comic Supes gets called boring but he is 1000x more interesting because there is more to him than being a fucking mope.
>>I posted it again!
Check the archive, i've never posted this before.
Go back to Sup Forums.
>Because it seems like it's a huge fucking burden
Because it is?
Imagine yourself in his shoes.
>Because it seems like it's a huge fucking burden
BECAUSE IT FUCKING IS, not the saving itself, but the consequences of doing so are a massive fucking burden that would make any normal person uneasy. That is the whole fucking point.
>He enjoys saving folks
The entire point of BvS is how he doesn't really like saving people and only did it because he felt he was obliged too. Even at the end he really only saved the day to save Lois.
>The entire point of BvS is how he doesn't really like saving people and only did it because he felt he was obliged too.
not even close bud
Stop whining.
It's Wonder Woman's world now.
>louis
I hate you most of all.
the thing is we never see WHAT makes it worth it to him. Obviously we as the audience can recognize that there must be something that keeps him doing it, but all we see of him is looking depressed. There's no evidence of whatever inherent moral fiber he has in the comics because his parents are continually vague about whether saving people is a good thing. He doesn't have a Spider-man moment where he is shown firsthand what great power=great responsibility.
There's no moment where he has a human interaction where we SEE why he does what he does. All we see is him getting worshiped like a god, which he demonstrably does not like.
>Be their hero, Clark. Be their angel, be their monument, be anything they need you to be... or be none of it. You don't owe this world a thing. You never did.
Yeah nah, it was pretty damn clear Supe's didn't like his job.
see
I don't wanna fucking imagine myself in his shoes. I don't want a fucking "realistic" superman. I want something even close to the personality I read in comics.
He can feel it as a burden but that shouldn't be the entirety of his character. Name even 3 other character traits he has
But that quote isn't from Clark. Try again.
In my opinion, the movie makes the moral character of Jonathan Kent VERY clear.
>you are my son.
>I want something even close to the personality I read in comics.
see
"Not even close" would be him not saving people at all.
Take your hysteria and go.
are implying that Jonathan on the mountain was an actual ghost and not just a manifestation of Clark's own conscience?
Look, you've had going on four years to understand the issue is one of tone.
So bottom line, you're either shitposting, or legitimately autistic. But good news! You get to choose which one. Those are the only options.
Just saving people isn't his character either. But I wouldn't expect people on Sup Forums to actually read comics, let alone DCEU shitters
That's exactly what's wrong with it. A hero is someone better than a loser like me.
Yet he comes back and makes the ultimate sacrifice. Nah, I think you are just a retard.
You really didn't understand the point of what she said.
Yeah, it's from Martha his mom telling Clark what is essentially the moral of the story is. She knew that Supe's was getting tired of everyone's shit and doesn't want to be a god damn messiah figure.
Supe's did everything soley for his love of Lois. Why do you think we get a scene with dead Pa Kent telling Clark saving people is pointless?
Mate, i'm one of the few people here who read comics before he found Sup Forums.
The DCEU is great so far.
If saving people was the most important trait then you could say every hero is the same since they all want to save people. The way they go about it is more important, and I mean more than just the physical way since that too would reduce them to being he same except with different powers.
WW's tone isn't any different from MoS for the majority of the film though.
this
You're defending a piece of cardboard for doing what any super hero from any other movie would do.
ONLY BECAUSE of the people treating him like shit not because the saving itself is unenjoyable.
>no counterargument
As expected.
The film straight up contradicts your lies.
>Has been saving people since childhood despite the chance of exposure
>Stands up for women who are being harassed
>Chooses his adopted home planet over his birth planet
>Uses his position as a journalist to stand up for people he sees as being mistreated
>Worries constantly that he’s doing more harm than good to the world
>Even with his mother's life at stake he tries to reason with Bruce before trying to merely subdue him
>Has very good reasons to hate the world but never shows anger towards it and still tries to help it at every opportunity
>Saves Lex Luthor from Doomsday despite hating him
>Ready to sacrifice his life to save the world
Seriously, he's heroic AF. And I wouldn't be cheery all the time if everything I did was met with scrutiny or controversy. But the important thing is that despite that, he never stopped doing what was right.
Smiling and being happy all the time does not equal hope. If that was the case, then the Joker is the most fucking hopeful person in the world.
Hope is when you see and believe in the positive when there is negative around. You can be depressed, sad, and feel down but still have hope.
Tone of character, not just tone of narrative.
But keep digging your hole. Surely you'll dig your way out after four years.
this
Please describe Clark's personality from these movies. Not that he saves people, but actual character traits.
I want to stay in my hole. And I want you to join me so you can share in my good taste.
This.
"He's totally Superman! He saved people!" is a shallow understanding of the character. EVERY superhero does that. What makes Superman who he is is something else entirely
What's in it for me?
He doesn't need a specific moment, he does it because it's the right fucking thing to do.
>There's no evidence of whatever inherent moral fiber he has in the comics because his parents are continually vague about whether saving people is a good thing
Except they had the moral fucking fiber to be honest and tell him that really bad fucking things could happen if he goes public, they were fucking heroes instead of negligent idiots who just told Clark what he wants to hear.
Because he's miserable and grim.
Okay, so you've settled on shitposting rather than autism. Good to know. I'll even be magnanimous and let you have the last word.
>he can't
It's OK user. We already knew that
He didn't fucking tell him it was pointless, he told him saving/pleasing everyone is fucking impossible so don't be miserable because of, go be happy and just do what your capable of doing & be content with that.
Because MoS was a disappointment. There's an "in for a penny" mentality that makes people hyperbolize everything nowadays. MoS can't be a a disappointing and bleak but ultimately just mediocre and forgettable Superman movie. No it has to be the worst thing to ever happen to Superman. Superman and Pa can't be poorly written but normal people struggling with an impossible situation, they must be complete monsters that are 180s from their characters.
Superman can't just fail to save literally everyone while saving the entire world, he must be directly and purposefully responsible for every death that occurred that day and feel nothing about it.
I get really tired of seeing the constant reddit spacing in these threads
No really.
Would you change your mind?
Be honest now.
>he doesn't need a specific moment
maybe he doesn't, but you are then assuming something that isn't demonstrated in the film because of your previous knowledge of the character.
It doesn't need to be something big like with Spider-man but just a fucking human moment with ANY of the people he saves that aren't named Lois. Like other people have said in this thread, it's a matter of tone. On screen, he doesn't appear to like saving people or doing the right thing. That isn't the Superman people are familiar with, and that is what's being criticized.
He treats saving people like a terrible burden that he hates and that constantly grinds on his soul.
Also he's inconsistent and wooden and has no distinct personality. Snyderman is simply unlikable on every level because he's hollow and poorly acted, and the only personality you can really give him is the personality of his movies, which is depressing and morose.
>Because MoS was a disappointment.
It wasn't though.
I was very happy when I walked out of the theater in 2013.
Because Superman's character arc was done through other people's exposition.
On his own, he's just a boring hunk that has two or three emotions at best
Seriously, even when he's alone contemplating his life, most of the talking is made by a hallucination while Cavil makes a sad face
A charismatic friendly guy who has chosen to be a loner fly on the wall & let his actions speak for him as to avoid getting into the fray of politics and government.
>charismatic friendly
neither of those are evident when he's interacting with anyone not named Lois
This. I've been a Superman fan for over 20 years, and I absolutely loved it.
>A charismatic friendly guy
what.
>charismatic
lol, he's a cardboard box
yeah well I've been a superman fan for 40 years and I thought it was shit.
Snyder thinks it's impossible for someone actually save people, while also being positive at the same time.
He also thinks a "real" superman would be mopey, depressed and break people's necks.
I'd describe DCEU Clark as more introverted than anything. He likes to show up, get the job done, and then quietly leave, like he did as a vagabond. Obviously he's still righteous and good-hearted,but he's more introspective than most versions of the character, wondering if his actions are causing more harm than good.
you sound like a massive douche bag
Honestly, he looks autistic.
Not even using Sup Forums autism, I mean actual autism.
This.
I don't know why people try to argue that his Superman isn't like this. These are the legit beliefs he espouses. He's a fucking objectivist, he doesn't believe in helping people, he truly does not get Superman on any level.
>he doesn't believe in helping people
And yet he helps people.
And he continues to help people even after he wonders why he's doing it.
Yeah if I thought you had a point. That's the whole point of discussing something. Not just to jerk each other off over shared ideas.
I'm pretty sure that the user you responded to was talking about Snyder himself.
How can honestly anyone with half a brain enjoy a miserable mopey Superman?
I've given it thought and the problem is that Clark isn't enough of the perspective character in these movies. It's all about how the """""""realistic""""""" world would react to him, and how Superman would fit in that """"""""realistic"""""""" world, but what we really needed was to get inside HIS head.
It was backwards. We needed to see the world through his eyes. We needed a moment like Because maybe that's really it. Maybe the issue isn't that people don't think he saved anyone so much as this world doesn't seem like it's been saved or is even worth saving.
>half a brain
the average Sup Forums poster has considerably less
You don't need a reason to help people.
damn............................................... really made me think......................................
>saves the entire species with his bare hands on his first day on the job
Yeah, I think he's alright
This guy gets it.
thanks for not reading past the first sentence, I guess
You don't need a reason to have an aversion to killing but Snyder thought it important to give him one.
You don't even really need a reason to wear a cape, and Snyder thought it important to say it was genetic.
The guy that plays him is unattractive and aggressive looking.
He was such to the bar girl.
He wasn't friendly, but he seemed relatively open and respectful to the General during the interrogation scene.
Superman killed in the comics before and the genetic thing had no play in the movie itself.
>and Snyder thought it important to say it was genetic.
Not really? How is mentioning it in an interview and not once in the movie "important"?
Because he is humanized and sympathetic.
>You don't even really need a reason to wear a cape, and Snyder thought it important to say it was genetic.
This was one of the dumbest things that Snyder ever decided to do with this franchine. Not only made a previous scene that was good....bad, but it also is so fucking unecessary that it is patethic.
>and the genetic thing had no play in the movie itself.
He talked about it while explaining the scene of Clark running with a cape as a child, it changes the tone and meaning of the scene. It is just Superman being geneticaly inclined to wear a piece of fabric.
People say shit about the genetic thing but no one said anything when Morrison implied that Superman moral fiber was genetic for being kryptonian.
>It is just Superman
>just
>what is heritage
>How is mentioning it in an interview and not once in the movie "important"?
Snyder thought that it was important enough to mention it, soooo....your deal is with him.
Are you implhyinf that it isnt also an horrible idea?
But it makes it more interesting. Every single super hero saves people. A piece of wood saving people isn't something people want to watch on screen. There has to be more than that.
this
In MOS, a loner and an outcast who drifts through life aimlessly without meaning and purpose, wanting to help others but fears the consequences of his identity being revealed. Once he discovers his Kryptonian roots, he gains more confidence in himself and his abilities. In BVS we see that he still wants to help people, but his alien nature conspires against him and he becomes increasingly frustrated with people seeing him as some divine object of worship or a potential threat, when all he wants to do is help others and lead a normal life with Lois. He has a crisis of faith, but in the end he stays true to his convictions and makes the ultimate sacrifice. At least, that's what I got out of the movies.