Hyperspeed ramming is super effective, cripples snoke's dreadnaught, and destroyers a dozen star destroyers behind it

>hyperspeed ramming is super effective, cripples snoke's dreadnaught, and destroyers a dozen star destroyers behind it

So why don't the rebels just get a bunch of cheap old freighters and fuck up the New Order with kamikaze tactics?

youtu.be/p09c0MXDxto?t=11m50s

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=SKjc7CIpVtk
youtube.com/watch?v=ETFNSVNQqfE
youtu.be/Kj3opk1QFTM
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace
youtube.com/watch?v=CcX8mDRIhYE
youtube.com/watch?v=8g3wAie8Fxo
youtube.com/watch?v=JGp_5gOww0E
youtube.com/watch?v=aYl8AR-YNOQ&lc=UgzOqclaNWXdp0ZpHOB4AaABAg
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

They better retcon this with the revelation that Del Taco put a virus in the Supremecy's computer core and disabled the shields or somesuch

It would actually be really cool if the next movie started getting more and more far out with its space battle tactics, on both the Empire and Rebel sides. Even if it contradicts established Star Wars physics or whatever, it's not like they give a shit about that anyway.

Even that wouldn't fix anything, because all the Star Destroyers behind the Supremacy still had their shields, and they got fucking wrecked.

And lets say that shields did protect you from a hyperspace ram. Then battles just become a matter of taking down shields and hyperspace ramming a target.

what do the shields matter? an A-Wing rammed the bridge of a shielded star destroyer in the TJR and AT-AT's literally just walked through the shields in EsB

and Holdo just happened to know that?

ROGUE TWO

whydidntyouintensifyit.jpg

even worse when you realize the order has way more ships and a lot of disposable fodder

In the novel of ROTJ the Executor's shields was crippled by multiple ion weapons, the rebels also damaged other key systems before the kamikaze attack

why aren't ships crashing in to each other all the time?


youtube.com/watch?v=SKjc7CIpVtk

>what do the shields matter?
Pic related

what the fuck is the point of giant capital ships if a smaller force of rag-tag rebels can so easily disable and destroy them?

the shields were down.. they literally show the big balls that generate the shields exploding

can retards stop floating this as an idea. It fixes nothing and only raises more questions

It's fucking Androl all over again

Because it's fantasy for 12 year olds you fuck, not a realistic war drama. One good guy killing herself for the greater good is heroic, all of them doing it is fucking ISIS.

I wouldn't mind bending Holdo over a comm and raping her butthole. She'd cry, but that's considered a good thing on her planet, so the whole experience would be very sexually confusing.

no, just add to the idiocy of her character by revealing her plan would have failed without a capable man and lucky timing

>HURR WHY NOT FLY THE EAGLES TO MORDOR
Really?

>not a realistic war drama

In the OT they maintained a level of internal consistency that made it believable, even if it wasn't always realistic. NuWars threw that shit right out the window though.

Ion weapon are super effective against shields

this is a really weak argument if you've never been around birds enough to realize they are by and large selfish assholes

This has a justification, though. The Eagles wouldn't go to Mordor with Sauren around, because Sauron can see everything that goes into Mordor, and he has fucking dragons and shit

Why hyperspace ram when a single A-wing can take out a super star destroyer at normal speed?
youtube.com/watch?v=ETFNSVNQqfE

Star wars was always shit

When you touch mass shadows in hyperspace you get destroyed in hyperspace. So unless you timed it to the attosecond (and probably not even that would be enough) and then exited hyperspace you'd just be dust in a different dimension.

the battle against the super star destroyer was cut for time and budget, It would have been longer and involving more ships

How exactly is this a new plothole? Didn't it exist the moment hyperspace travel was introduced in ANH? And don't give me that "It's like a wormhole/they're out of phase with the real universe crap." Han specifically explains they can crash into obstacles at hyperspeed.

You don't fly directly to Mordor but you cut out hundreds of miles and months of travel by flying to Minas Tirith so you deprive Sauron months of time to strengthen and send out his forces.

What's the point of having a Death Star when a fleet of capital ships can glass the surface of a planet in minutes?

You hit mass shadows in hyperspace and blow up in hyperspace, real space is unaffected.

True, but TLJ showed audiences that hyperspeed ramming is super effective. They opened the genie's bottle and made it canon.

Alien invader's from outside their Galaxy

>made it canon
Don't expect to ever see it again out side of memes.

No one thought of it before Strong Female Character.

youtu.be/Kj3opk1QFTM

>Includes paid promotion

All those star destroyers were mostly for quickly supressing any unrest on many worlds of huge galaxy before death star was completed, Tarkin doctrine and shit. Imperial navy barely had any ship-to-ship combat experience for 20+ years between ep3 and ep6, incompetence played it's role I guess.

He never says that. He says they can crash into things or wind up inside a planet after exiting Hyperspace.

I'm more pissed off that no one in the Star Wars universe figured out how to strap a warhead to a propulsion device so you can shoot the enemy at long distances instead of getting in range or their lasers

Fanfiction. They never explained anything about gravity wells or mass shadows until decades after the OT.
It wasn't that effective.

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace

The official "cannon" explanation is that it destroys hyper space in that area and I guess attracts space ghosts. No really.

I know, it's incredibly lazy writing, but there it is. It doesn't explain why space ships don't suddenly explode from encountering the random atoms that fill the space between stars.

youtube.com/watch?v=CcX8mDRIhYE
Does Sup Forums just bitch about movies they've never seen the way Sup Forums bitches about comics they've never read?

>Fanfiction.
It's mention in official TLJ books.

>I know, it's incredibly lazy writing, but there it is. It doesn't explain why space ships don't suddenly explode from encountering the random atoms that fill the space between stars.
There's hardly any atoms in deep space. Did you not learn this in grade school?

TFA*

Stop posting anytime. Bridge deflectors went down moments before and the backups weren't fast enough.

Now where does he talk about flying through physical things? Oh right. When he mentions they might end up INSIDE of Alderaan when they drop out of hyperspace. Now how would they end up inside of Alderaan when they exit if what you're saying is that they would just smash into the surface of it? Why would he be concerned about stars and supernovas? Perhaps the immense gravity both of these things produce? Almost like hitting a gravity well would cause you to blow up in hyperspace... oh... but that's just "fanfiction" right?

I get the impression from the movie that this is supposed to be the first time anybody tried this shit ever. Which is stupid, because Star Wars universe has had space flight for thousands of years, maybe tens of thousands.

According to Lucas, pre-Disney, mass effects hyperspace. A sufficiently large mass can pull ships out of hyperspace. In the Prequels and the OT ships jump into hyperspace, travel at sublight speeds, then jump out at their destination. That's the way it's handled in the movies and EU. The only time this changes is in Disney's new movies, and that's likely because no one on the story team actually cares about the lore. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, but it's still pretty dumb.

>hitting a gravity well would cause you to blow up in hyperspace
Well, ACTUALLY, it would cause the ship to drop out of hyperspace and then just crash, but...sure.

But he could easily concentrate his forces if he saw the ring shining like a huge comet hurdling through the sky. The reason they sent a small fellowship in the first place was so Sauron couldn't hone in on them. That's the whole conceit of the first book.

Two A-Wings destroyed bridge shield generator, those round things on top of the bridge. There is even a phrase right after with bridge officer saying they lost their bridge deflector shields. Now why they are exposed like that is another question, imperials probably thought what small fighters can never reach it through TIE swarms anyway.

>Now where does he talk about flying through physical things? Oh right. When he mentions they might end up INSIDE of Alderaan when they drop out of hyperspace. Now how would they end up inside of Alderaan when they exit if what you're saying is that they would just smash into the surface of it?
He never says anything like that.
>Why would he be concerned about stars and supernovas? Perhaps the immense gravity both of these things produce? Almost like hitting a gravity well would cause you to blow up in hyperspace... oh... but that's just "fanfiction" right?
Why would gravity matter if they weren't in "real" space? Every bit of matter in the universe has a gravity well, so even if we accept this alternate dimension hyperspace wormhole idea, all the arguments about asteroids and space debris would still hold. Either real objects can affect hyperspace ships or they can't.

Only large objects produce enough gravity to create a mass shadow in hyperspace.

they were trying to top this scene, but totally shit the bed
youtube.com/watch?v=8g3wAie8Fxo
>inb4 b-but there's no gravity in space
the death star is comparable in size to a moon, its gravity would definitely pull it in without inertial stabilizers intact

>Why would gravity matter if they weren't in "real" space? Every bit of matter in the universe has a gravity well, so even if we accept this alternate dimension hyperspace wormhole idea, all the arguments about asteroids and space debris would still hold.
Not really, man. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to get into hyperspace, and it takes a lot of mass to pull a ship out. A few particles, asteroids, or small ships wouldn't do it. It would take a large mass object like a moon, or a moon-sized space station to pull a ship out of hyperspace. In fact Han specifically says they "came out of hyperspace too early" here: youtube.com/watch?v=JGp_5gOww0E

So what, hyperspace doesn't care unless an object has a large enough radius? Would a nebula count as a large object? What about a cluster of comets?

Hyperspace is a sub-dimension layered on top of real space, something with enough gravity will bleed through.

Another thread about star wars cool that’s just what we need thanks op

This whole can of worms was opened when they decided to go pants on head retarded with Episode 8. Originally it could have been dismissed as "you're in an alternate plane of space where the only real danger was being incinerated by a star or supernova." But now that they've shown that ships in hyperspace can interact with reality we have all these questions. What if someone parked their ship in a hyperspace route? What if in Empire when the Millennium Falcon couldn't go into hyperspace it got rammed by a ship going at hyperspeed and Boba Fett was just vaporized because he was too close?

>So what, hyperspace doesn't care unless an object has a large enough radius? Would a nebula count as a large object? What about a cluster of comets?
>radius
Nigga, that ain't how mass works. The difference between a "cluster of comets" and a nebula to a concentrated is mass is the difference between 5 tons of water hitting around you when you walk through the rain, and you getting hit by a truck traveling at 15 mph.

>Not really, man. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to get into hyperspace, and it takes a lot of mass to pull a ship out.
Or a small object could pull a large ship out of hyperspace, since that's how gravity works.
>In fact Han specifically says they "came out of hyperspace too early" here: youtube.com/watch?v=JGp_5gOww0E
Did you really think I wasn't autistic enough to watch that entire clip? Han says no such thing.

I see your point, but consider that your mass isn't sufficient to alter the trajectory of the Earth when you jump away from it, even though your body creates a gravitational field.

As for the clip, you're not autistic, you're just dumb. Check at exactly 15 seconds in, since that's when Han says that.

>Nigga, that ain't how mass works. The difference between a "cluster of comets" and a nebula to a concentrated is mass is the difference between 5 tons of water hitting around you when you walk through the rain, and you getting hit by a truck traveling at 15 mph.
That's a matter of density, not gravity, and an object's gravity is not affected by it's density except in very extreme cases. You'd have just as much trouble lifting your clothes soaked with 5 tons of water as you would lifting a 5 ton truck.
The OT established that real space objects affect hyperspace objects, ala hyperspace aint dusting crops.

and there are some morons think Star Wars universe has a remote chance against Star Trek universe, let alone Warhammer universe.

Get fuck noob asses

Nigga, mass shadows is the canon reasoning for Han's comments. You can cry all you like but at that point it's just "hurr fanfcition"

>I see your point, but consider that your mass isn't sufficient to alter the trajectory of the Earth when you jump away from it, even though your body creates a gravitational field.
It literally does though.
>As for the clip, you're not autistic, you're just dumb. Check at exactly 15 seconds in, since that's when Han says that.
>We've come out of hyperspace in the middle of an asteroid collision. It's not on any of the charts.

>Terrorist organisation using Terror tactics
IMAGINE MY SHOOK

>promotional material is canon even when it contradicts what happens in the films
Not even canon to the movie it's promoting, since the Falcon jumps directly into the atmosphere of a planet.

The last jedi not only ruins all future STAR WARS movies, it also retroactively ruins the past films and makes them all look like idiots.

>A New Hope - "Sir we've worked out the final plan for the assault on the death star and it will be risky and cost many lives but it migh-" "Just Hyperspace-Ram it"

>Empire - "Sir the troops are ready for the ground assault on Hoth, walkers are ready to deploy" "Just Hyperspace-Ram the shield generator from orbit then Hyperspace-ram the rebel base. Boom. All the rebels will be dead before they can evacuate, war is over, and we never had to do a ground assault"

>Jedi - "Sir they built a new death star and it's even bigg-" "Just Hyperspace-Ram it" "But sir it's surrounded by a shield from the Endor moo-" "Just hyperspace ram the endor Moon until you take out the shield generator, Ewoks are collateral damage, then hyperspace ram the new death star"

>Phantom Menace - "Annakin you have to take out that droid controller" "Just hyperspace ram it"

>Rogue One - "We have to take down that shield generator!" "Just hyperspace ra- actually you know what were going to just hyperspace ram the death star anyway so we don't even need these stupid plans. Lets get out of here everybody."

>TFA - My god they built an even BIGGER death sta-" "Just hyperspace ram it"

From now on, in every star wars movie ever made, every single time there is a massive fleet, large base or battlestation everyone watching will be thinking. "Why don't they just hyperspace-ram it". Johnson did this to the entire star wars cinematic universe, forever, for the sake of a ten second shot that "looked cool".

No it established that gravity could affect hyperspace. Why did he say "star" and "supernova" instead of "planet" or "asteroid" or "space ship"? Because it was about the GRAVITY that stars and supernovas generate. This can all be concluded with deductive reasoning but you're obviously a little too slow for that and wish Han had said "If I don't calculate this right we might smash into a planet like a bug on the windshield."

Yeah which is the whole basis for this bitchfest of a thread, the established canon of the series is now broken beyond fixing because of the new trilogy.

You're either an idiot or a troll, man. You're trying to argue that gravity is an all or nothing affair. The issue isn't whether gravity affects something in hyperspace, but whether gravity can pull an object out of hyperspace. Much like the effect on the Earth caused by your relatively infinitesimal gravitational field, the effect of small mass objects on ships in hyperspace can reasonable be assumed to be negligible.

>That's a matter of density
Nigga, if we talkin' gravitational fields, we talkin' density. No way around that shit. Take the mass of Mount Everest and spread that shit over a few million cubic kilometers in space and it still generates a gravitational field, but condense that shit into a space the size of a proton and you've got yourself some space breaking shit.

>starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperspace

Hmm... right here under the "Canon" section...

>bringing relativistic kill vehicles into Star Wars
Just have the ship self destruct or something.

Then it turns into an anime.

Honestly, the simplest solution is for Disney to just pretend that retarded shit never happened. It's literally the only way around it. If they try to write some bullshit reason, it still falls apart since fanatics and madmen would STILL hyperspace ram shit regardless of the effect to surrounding space. This also introduces another, universe breaking plot hole. IF hyperspace ramming shit literally breaks hyperspace, why don't we see desperate armies using this to strand fleets and cut off travel to capital cities? Imagine if an Israeli or Palestinian extremist could just drive their car into something an COMPLETELY isolate and fuck up the entire city forever. SOMEONE would do that shit.

>That's a matter of density, not gravity, and an object's gravity is not affected by it's density except in very extreme cases.
That's just not at all true man. Density always affects the shape of a gravitational field, even if it's imperceptible at a small scale. Density of matter is literally how closely packed together matter is, and because matter generates gravitational fields this necessarily affects the size and shape of those fields. It's...well just fucking wrong to suggest otherwise. Would it surprise you to learn that even "solid" objects have variances in their gravitational fields INSIDE of them that depend on density? Gravity isn't actually a unifying force (in the sense that a gravitational field becomes a singular thing). It is in fact, an attraction of atoms and particles to EACH OTHER. The further you get away from these separate particles, the more these fields begin to behave like a single field, but it's nonetheless important to note that they never actually become one "thing" at the subatomic level (well sort of, black holes do whatever the fuck they want).

>You'd have just as much trouble lifting your clothes soaked with 5 tons of water as you would lifting a 5 ton truck.
Now you're talking weight which is a common measurement used by most people to quantify the strength of gravitational fields. You're right that 5 tons is 5 tons though, but the important difference is the way those 5 tons interact with other objects. If you want to realistically put 5 tons of water into someones clothes you're going to have to significantly increase the density.

No, if you want to be extremely pedantic about it, it's establishes that hyperspace is affected by stars. The point still stands that density is not a factor in the calculation of gravitational force.
>You're either an idiot or a troll, man. You're trying to argue that gravity is an all or nothing affair. The issue isn't whether gravity affects something in hyperspace, but whether gravity can pull an object out of hyperspace. Much like the effect on the Earth caused by your relatively infinitesimal gravitational field, the effect of small mass objects on ships in hyperspace can reasonable be assumed to be negligible.
Actually, since gravity travels at the speed of light, it's reasonable to assume that gravity wouldn't affect a FTL ship at all.
>Nigga, if we talkin' gravitational fields, we talkin' density. No way around that shit. Take the mass of Mount Everest and spread that shit over a few million cubic kilometers in space and it still generates a gravitational field, but condense that shit into a space the size of a proton and you've got yourself some space breaking shit.
No, density plays no part in gravitational attraction, except in extreme cases like a black hole. If you are standing on Pluto and someone blew up Everest, you would still experience the exact same gravitation pull as before they blew it up. That may change under the extreme case of compressing it to the size of a proton, as that would create a black hole, but if you compressed it to the size of a hydrogen atom, it would have no effect.

You are all aware when he sold it for the 4.05 billion he sold the creative rights too, right?

>Actually, since gravity travels at the speed of light
Gravitational waves are what travel at the speed of light. Gravity is a constant.

That's just not at all true man. Density always affects the shape of a gravitational field, even if it's imperceptible at a small scale. Density of matter is literally how closely packed together matter is, and because matter generates gravitational fields this necessarily affects the size and shape of those fields. It's...well just fucking wrong to suggest otherwise. Would it surprise you to learn that even "solid" objects have variances in their gravitational fields INSIDE of them that depend on density? Gravity isn't actually a unifying force (in the sense that a gravitational field becomes a singular thing). It is in fact, an attraction of atoms and particles to EACH OTHER. The further you get away from these separate particles, the more these fields begin to behave like a single field, but it's nonetheless important to note that they never actually become one "thing" at the subatomic level (well sort of, black holes do whatever the fuck they want).
That's a fair point, except that we're not dealing with Planck scale ships flying through what we would perceive as solid objects at a more familiar scale. You're statement about distance making the fields of aggregate particles appear as a unified field is exactly what I was getting at.
>You're right that 5 tons is 5 tons though, but the important difference is the way those 5 tons interact with other objects. If you want to realistically put 5 tons of water into someones clothes you're going to have to significantly increase the density.
It's a flawed example but I didn't come up with it.

Hey smart guys. Why did the chunks of Alderaan not start hitting the Falcon until after they left hyperspace?

>Gravitational waves are what travel at the speed of light. Gravity is a constant.
It's my understanding that gravity waves are quantizations of gravitational force. I could be wrong, though.

Why do I feel that Rian stole this from Jim H.'s Company?

youtube.com/watch?v=aYl8AR-YNOQ&lc=UgzOqclaNWXdp0ZpHOB4AaABAg

Gravity doesn't "travel" at all. It's not a particle, nor a wave. It directly affects space-time. It "propagates." This means that if a gravitational field already exists in the space you're traveling through, you're going to go right through it.

>No, density plays no part in gravitational attraction, except in extreme cases like a black hole. If you are standing on Pluto and someone blew up Everest, you would still experience the exact same gravitation pull as before they blew it up. That may change under the extreme case of compressing it to the size of a proton, as that would create a black hole, but if you compressed it to the size of a hydrogen atom, it would have no effect.

I really don't think you understand gravity. Each particle is attracted to every other particle. That's gravity. At the subatomic scale protons electrons and neutrons aren't physically touching, yes? And these particles each have their own gravitational fields, yes? And even in solid matter none of the atoms are actually touching, yes? And even in our solar system the planetary bodies aren't touching yes?

But, as you pull back through these levels their separate gravitational fields appear as if they're part of a singular field. They're not. But that's how they appear. Atoms are attracted to the combined fields of other atoms. Solid objects are attracted to the combined fields of other solid objects. Does that help?

>Gravity doesn't "travel" at all. It's not a particle, nor a wave.

It does. It's both. And it travels at lightspeed.

never heard of "graviton", yes it's a fucking thing

don't know gravity travels at light speed.

This is why Star War's is such a shit universe, because fans defending are literally science illiterate.

Star Wars universe will ALWAYS be inferior, because it is not INTERNALLY CONSISTENT.

It's just shit puked out for the plot.

Is there any movement within the hardcore SW geek community to disown the new movies as non-canon?

>I really don't think you understand gravity. Each particle is attracted to every other particle. That's gravity. At the subatomic scale protons electrons and neutrons aren't physically touching, yes? And these particles each have their own gravitational fields, yes? And even in solid matter none of the atoms are actually touching, yes? And even in our solar system the planetary bodies aren't touching yes?
>But, as you pull back through these levels their separate gravitational fields appear as if they're part of a singular field. They're not. But that's how they appear. Atoms are attracted to the combined fields of other atoms. Solid objects are attracted to the combined fields of other solid objects. Does that help?
How, exactly, can you type all that out and miss that I said the exact same thing here:
>If you are standing on Pluto and someone blew up Everest, you would still experience the exact same gravitation pull as before they blew it up. That may change under the extreme case of compressing it to the size of a proton, as that would create a black hole, but if you compressed it to the size of a hydrogen atom, it would have no effect.

>Gravity doesn't "travel" at all. It's not a particle, nor a wave. It directly affects space-time. It "propagates." This means that if a gravitational field already exists in the space you're traveling through, you're going to go right through it.
None of that is proven. It may be right, but it's still an open question in physics exactly what gravity is and how it behaves and whether it travels or not.

There was a petition to make 8 non-canon if I remember correctly.

Hey Answer this Since you think all physical things can affect things in hyperspace.

I'm annoyed to have to explain this so I'm making it brief.

If you magically made the sun disappear the earth would continue to rotate on it's current orbit as if the sun still existed. It would do so for exactly 499 seconds after the sun no longer existed, which is how long it would take for the gravitational absence of the sun to reach the earth travelling at lightspeed. At which point, at the 500 second mark, the earth would go flying off into space on a straight like at it's current trajectory.

If you don't understand basic things like this about gravity please don't write anything about it, even on chinese cartoon message board topics about fictional space operas about space wizards. In fact just shut your fucking mouth.

Read

for the record I agree with what you just said
but I would like to see the proof

>the earth would go flying off into space on a straight like at it's current trajectory.
That's not how galaxies work. The sun isn't the only thing that has a gravitational effect on the Earth.

>the lore is ruined because the movies contradict promotional material for said movies
>Why is Grievous an incompetent mustache twirler instead of a badass?
>Why wasn't Boba Fett a major character in Empire?

But he's saying that anything, despite their size, can affect things in hyperspace. What you linked to suggests that only objects large enough to create "mass shadows" can affect things in hyperspace. Those chunks weren't large enough to do that because they didn't start doing anything to the Falcons until they exited hyperspace.