Anyone else got the feeling that the Invisibles are really depicting the tragic corruption of Dane Mcgowan?
Tom tried to save him by teaching him to be truly free but Tom's old enemies tracked him down to make him like them (the invisibles/harlequinade) before their rival faction could do the same. The rest of the series is about how he is slowly brianwashed and later, now fully corrupted and a shell of his old self, just a nice cog in the machine?
If you read even past that you can also see how its all really a metaphor of the political forces pulling young men and women apart for their own ulterior reasons.
Outer Church = Conservatives
Harlequinade = Liberals
Both sides are represented at their cartoonized extrapolation of "super teams" concept.
And how Dane is swayed back and fort to finally succumb to lefty indoctrination, but not without realizing that excesses on both sides would lead to the same kind of problems both ideologies had been attempting to fix.
Why did Tom broke up with the liberal extremists then?
Not really since you see that Dane does things that you wouldn't think the team would do. For instance he gave Sir Miles back his aura or whatever when King Mob expected the Outer Church would've killed him. And in some way Dane affects King Mob as well.
>Not really since you see that Dane does things that you wouldn't think the team would do. For instance he gave Sir Miles back his aura or whatever when King Mob expected the Outer Church would've killed him.
I think that is because he still hadn't bought the Invisibles' party line by then. He hadn't taken the "blue pill" he does when going into the mirror with the john dreams Outer Church fiction suit
it end poorly
The Invisibles is about rebellion against social and mythological constructs that we create controlling us at every moment in our life.
It can be religious, such as the Outre Church, or by the government and military, or even our own hang ups regarding sexuality. We create God's and boogie men to place control and restrictions on ourselves.
The Invisibles is about removing those restrictions and restraints and learning to live and love each other without being forced to by self inflicted control.
King Mob dressing different as the series progresses is an allegory for power fantasies changing over the years, while Dane goes from self destructive, intolerant child to fully accepting and loving man.
It's all about free love and removing the limitations we place on ourselves.
Shove that blue pill/red pill derivative Matrix bullshit back where you found it.
You'll never really "awaken" if you don't understand both sides of the argument and keep an open mind.
>The Invisibles is about rebellion against social and mythological constructs that we create controlling us at every moment in our life.
the invisibles are also an instrument of control, in case you didnt notice. the "conflict" isnt real
Tom was great, no doubt about it. But Dane was a definite problem case that needed the more severe scenarios to break through his shell of arrogance and fear, extremes that even a savvy secret agent like Six wouldn't be able to bring himself to deliver on one so young.
Yes, duh, that's the point. By the end of the comic the members aren't even in Invisible cells any more. They and by extension, humanity, has out grown their need for The Invisibles.
Fate and Free will are unimportant concepts created by mankind. It doesn't matter why you got to enlightenment, only that you did.
Humanity had to out grown conventional control structures and The Invisibles counter movement.
Six was purposefully playing along as a doofus prof but had ulterior motives. Tom was the only one without an agenda other than helping Dane.
Thats why it seems to me the only truly good guy was Tom. He was the only one not trying to make Dane into someone's little soldier or puppet.
>Still thinking in terms of good and evil.
The entire conflict was pointless because of human beings. Everything is a creation from I'm the human mind.
The Invisibles and The Outre Church were both fictions made real by mythopoetic thinking. The only real thing in this comic is the message that we are all one people, and all need to accept and embrace the different and foreign.
Love sets us free, while fear prevents us from growing up as a species.
The Invisibles and Outre Church are allegories created by people to control outreach fears. They were only as real as we let them be.
I swear to fucking God my autocorrect is fucking with me for tits and giggles.
>the people who break the machine
>just another cog in the machine
Yes, exactly. That's the point. The Invisibles comic is about that very premise. In trying to rebel we merely conform to a different way.
People who try to break the machine are cogs in it, while those who are cogs in the machine can break it.
No, you fell for the Harlequinade party lien.
Both invisibles and outher church are controlled opposition of each other. The reason i say Dane was corrupted the same at the end is because he is also parroting the Harlequinade party line.
The "message" you mention, of ultra-openess and and iconoclastic "global society" is the exact same thing the outher church wants. They want everything to be "smooth", no diversity, all orderly, all the same. WHICH THE SAME PLACE YOU GET TO WHEN YOU SQUASH ALL THE INEQUALITY AND DIFFERENCES IN SOCIETY.
He doesnt break anything. He becomes a nice little cog
Try reading the comic again. Also it helps that I bought the omnibus where Grant Morrison explained all of this.
The Invisibles and Outre Church are both creations from the human id. The Invisibles is about the inner conflicting nature of people given abstract form.. It's all in their heads.
Remender, Sir Miles wrote the Invisibles hand book that they use. He also willingly switched sides to undermine the Outre Church.
The lies we tell ourselves can become our reality, and as Lord Fanny said, "reality can suck my dick, darling."
I get the feeling you really, really didn't understand the book.
Okay, mate. Just trying to have a chat about one of my favorite comics.
>creations of the human id
Its your classical order vs chaos turned into a false dichotomy.
You are yourself admitting they are merely control structures but you insist the comic is about one of them being (invisibles), while its clear -as by your own admission- they are one and the same.
Dane is for all means and purposes, 100% compromised by the last issue, you can't take he says as the overall message of the book, just his final statement of defeat.
I dont think you understood it enough.
>one of them being
one of them being right***
Yes, the outre church and The Invisibles are the same. It's a false dichotomy created by people, and realizing that sets him, and humanity, free.
The Outre Church and the Harlequinade were only as real and as powerful as we let them become.
Neither were right. It's a false dichotomy between order and chaos that was created by humans who were afraid of the unknown, so creating the Outre Church and the Invisibles was their way of explaining the world and defined their sense of reality.
We let ourselves be enslaved by our own fears and need for something "greater" than ourselves.
>Outre Church
>Outre
Jesus fucking Christ.
thing is by accepting that the Invisibles are just controlled opposition and a mirror image to the Outer Church, every idea they sold to Dane is compromised, including the one where the "next step" for humanity was something desirable.
>We let ourselves be enslaved by our own fears and need for something "greater" than ourselves.
Im suspicious of that because that is Barbelith's recruiting line. And I don't know Barbelith isn't the book's true antagonist, if it was behind everything in some way or another.
Yes, but again, the Invisibles are also a fictional construct created by people. The dynamic mirrors the internal struggle we all face daily.
It's easier to understand and "rebel" when we perceive those conflicts as tangible and concrete.
Barbelith and that dot aren't real. It's another fiction created by people.
Going to have to bow out here. Battery running on fumes.
What im saying is, there is no reason to buy into their ideology any more than there is to buy into the other guy's ideology, and the fact that Dane clearly does at the end -displaying full-invisible indoctrination speech, means he was unable to truly find freedom. At the end ending up no better than his Harmony House friend he sends off at the end.
Whatever it was, it was part of all "initiation" rituals in the comic we are shown.
I thought the point was that its the fear of being judged unworthy is what compels people to judge others, to find people that seem blatantly wrong and then make themself seem blatantly right by opposing them.
By refusing to be judged at all, as good or bad,
or perhaps better to say by denying that there's any worth in any such judgements, you no longer care if you're the good guy or the bad guy and you're no longer forcing yourself to embrace either of an opposing side, which in turn means you can no longer be controlled by others doing the opposite of what the system wants you do to.
If you don't judge and don't respect any moral judgement then you find the middle path where you freely act in your own self interests and stop playing by the rules of good vs evil entirely.
and this is represented in the Morrison way by Dane not only ending the comic before the high-concept of the judge can reply, he ends the story before the page is even finished. Nothing else is allowed to happen once he ends his sentence because the act of sentencing is no longer allowed, and now not the characters nor the audience nor the writer himself can control Dane's actions after this point