Speaking Power to Stupid: The Ever-Dumb Green Lantern Comics of Geoff Johns

Is he right?

hoodedutilitarian.com/2012/09/speaking-power-to-stupid-the-ever-dumb-green-lantern-comics-of-geoff-johns/

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>hooded utilitarian
No.

I'm gonna guess he's a butthurt as if there is any other kind Kylefag?

I'm not clicking that shit nigger

No, he doesn't seem to like any superheroes.

An intellectual breakdown of Johns' comics is wholly unnecessary. It's like breaking down Star Wars, or any Disney animated movie, or etc. There's no need for that, they're not meant to be some Criterion Collection bastion of quality film-making. I'm not saying "lmao turn your brain off, dude," but I am saying that if you're a grown ass adult who has enough of an academic background to analyze the shit out of a piece of fiction, it's probably best to put your energy toward something challenging and meant to be analyzed.

He actually explains why he analyzed John's run.
>Picking on superhero comics for being dumb is like punching a baby for not walking well, but there’s something about the inexplicably popular work of Geoff Johns that invites derision. It might be that his influence has grown by leaps and bounds over the past decade, culminating in his current position as the Chief Creative Officer at DC Comics, with his style of writing now being the shoddy model for the entire company to follow.

>This style has its proponents, even among people who should really know better, due to its constant hammering on nostalgia buttons, emphasis on “awesome” moments, and constantly-expanding stakes that reassure readers a long-term plan is in place, no matter how idiotic it is. What’s more, regular injections of gruesome violence and attempts at making everyone a badass make Johns’ comics perfect for those developmentally-stunted members of the audience who want to pretend that the kiddie entertainment of their childhood is all grown up now that it’s full of rape and dismemberment.

because he was mad people like thing?

He was mad that a shitty writer like Johns' is now the template for DC capeshit and that Johns' is everything that was wrong with 90s Image.

>Johns' is everything that was wrong with 90s Image.

I've yet to see Geoff write a book where superheroes are just mercs.

is he? The only person I can think of at DC who writes like Johns is, well, Johns.

Jesus, who needs this many words to say what typical Sup Forums assholes say every time they call superhero comics "capeshit" and whine about how slice-of-life indy books aren't more popular?

He writes edgy shit under the allusion that it makes the stories mature, while still writing dumb stories full of spreads with big explosions.

Just read Rebirth. It reeks entirely of Johns.

>He writes edgy shit under the allusion that it makes the stories mature, while still writing dumb stories full of spreads with big explosions.

That's not the specific ingredients that made Image bad though.

I disagree. It's nostalgia pandering to be sure, but not in the "smash action figures together" way Johns does it.

The author makes some good points about how Johns definitely goes more for "moments" rather than overall story strength, but there's a lot of willfull ignorance about the actual story specifics that he just calls stupid and doesn't explain why. He hates the emotional spectrum because happiness isn't included?
He just seems to hate the basic ridculousness that comes with the territory, and it brings down his points.

The multicolored lantern lore is the only reason people give a fuck about Green Lantern comics to this day and cosmic DC shit, let's be honest.

I seriously hope you're not Dumas from the DC boards, OP.

It genuinely baffles me every time I see someone pine for the days when DC cosmic wasn't emotional spectrum stories because all they fucking have otherwise are copy after copy after copy of the Mos Eisley Cantina. I'm so fucking sick of the idea that outer space in the big two is nothing but trashy bars.

TL;DR but I got to this point

>Interrogating prisoners by beating information out of them is a pretty common practice in action movies and detective fiction, but that doesn’t make it any less morally troublesome (especially considering the still-continuing debates in U.S. politics about torturing prisoners), and having a guy dressed in green tights bloodying a giant-headed freak just cheapens the whole issue. It should be embarrassing for everyone involved, if only they had any shame.

What a retarded criticism, a character does something morally questionable = bad. Hasn't Hal always been the right equivalent to Green Arrow's left leaning views? Is not out of character for him to be a more violent cop.

>Hasn't Hal always been the right equivalent to Green Arrow's left leaning views?

Honestly, it always seemed more like Hal had no political opinions at all but SEEMED like the conservative one compared to how much of a hippie Ollie is.

Bookmarked. I was thinking of buying the first Green Lantern omnibus by Johns, but it'll have to wait

Johns is a dumb writer and his fans are even dumber

So he was mad that people like thing and wrote a bunch of bullshit to make himself sound smart and lure other people like you who are mad that people like thing?

>allusion
You are so fucking dumb m8

This. This is the worst thing about Johns. Just like Bendis, he's had too much influence over the genre, dragging it down with him, to his levels. If modern Cape comics are any indicator, both of them are the reason capeshit is dead.

Don't be retarded. Read the first issues online/torrent them and then decide whether to buy it or not. Don't follow someones 'analysis' as a recommendation.

the problem with rougher heroes is why the lighter ones tolerate them in their team. Wondy is the biggest offender for that.

OP we know it's you

The thing is, Hal isn't even dark or rough, he just really enjoys punching. It's a whole thing with him, absolutely every single time he's presented with a problem, he doesn't want to talk to it or be clever to go around it, his first instinct is knuckle sandwich. Not because he's angry, but because he's dumb and it's fun.

Wonder Woman isn't "rough", kill yourself, you casual filth.

>but I am saying that if you're a grown ass adult who has enough of an academic background to analyze the shit out of a piece of fiction, it's probably best to put your energy toward something challenging and meant to be analyzed.
They won't, this kind of faggots are wholly hypocritical and always without any self awareness. One of his criticism of the book is that it's illusionary fiction aimed at manchildren who want some maturity in their capeshit and that at the core is the kind of vile cynicism that's purely corporate and materialistic. But the whole reason this nigga would criticize something like this is that he is a cynic himself.
If you are an intellectual of any capacity, why are you reading a simplistic post modern garbage without any self awareness? Go analyze some classic fiction or literary comics. But they won't give you site clues and you won't feel good about the point and laugh game you are trying to play here.

Johnsfags are literately the worst comic fans in the world
they should collectively kill themselves

>But the whole reason this nigga would criticize something like this is that he is a cynic himself.

That's the thing about these pretentious psuedointellectuals. At the heart of what they do is always a depression. They're unhappy in life and they are the engineers of their own unhappiness and they blame everybody else. "It's not my fault I never find anything I try entertaining, you're the one who's tastes are shit."

>tfw doing a major in philosophy
>want to become a professor and do some academic works about media and fiction
I really hope I don't turn out like that. I really want to talk about the good things, the new creative things even though I shitpost more about shit comics then post something good about great works.

He's right.

necknaspper wondie who's proud her rogue list isn't as long as the other heroes' because she kills hers, is.
Not every wondie is like that. But all who are, are shit.

punching an enemy in a fight and torturing one in an interrogation are two different things

>punching an enemy in a fight and torturing one in an interrogation are two different things

Not to Hal Jordan, that's my point. He doesn't see the nuance, he just sees Hector Hammond's big dumb face so he puts his fist in it because it's satisfying to do.

I would caution it may already be too late for you simply by virtue of the fact that you're here, which means Sup Forums-influenced thoughts live in your brain.

I mean, as much as it's a meme, it's also true that this place is bad for us and no one well-adjusted should be here if they want to stay that way.

>meant to be analyzed
Everything should be analyzed.

Who analyzes the analyzers?

How is the blogger to know if he, himself, is shit?

>Hasn't Hal always been the right equivalent to Green Arrow's left leaning views?
Nah. He's just a pawn for Denny O'Neil's thoughts and opinions. He's the guy Ollie yells at from time to. It's all for him to hammer the point home about whatever issue Denny wanted children to think about and absorb.

He basically admitted to writing propaganda for children, it's hilarious

Well yeah, but if he's been in the JL for some time, it ought to have come up at some point.

It's kinda funny when the blog has "utilitarian" in the address, one would expect the persons writing there to be able to grasp that a bastion of pure good punching something pure evil for the greater good should be acceptable. What's really supposed to be the ideological debate here? Superhero works are power fantasy symbolic fiction. People are projecting upon these characters and making them symbolic of something. They want to see these evil characters be defeated or be beaten. Does the guy object everytime Batman beats up a thug to solve a grander mystery and save the day? If so, maybe he really is missing the point of this genre.

I don't think anybody in the JL sees physical assault during an interrogation as "torture". They all do it, while they don't go for waterboarding or shoving bamboo under the fingernails or whatever.

>"My theory was that it was probably too late for my generation, but maybe you get a smart twelve-year-old... and you get him thinking about racism"
>And he said this all with a clenched fist

It was definitely a liberal wank as one would call it and I'm a liberal. The book is really funny if you read it now, you wouldn't be able to tell where the line between what's supposed to be taken at face value vs what's parody like and there isn't supposed to be that line. The book really needs the context to work.

I like how the scene of that old man bitching at Hal "why haven't you done anything for the black skins?" and all Hal can do is lower his head in shame comes off as unintentional comedy.

Motherfucker's saved the planet like a thousand times. Pretty sure that's where the black skins live.

What if you find self-righteous, disproportional punishment more evil than selfishness?
Defeating a villain in a duel is one thing, administering punishment -directly or through cosmic karma- was always too cringey for my tastes.

So he's mad people liked thing and wanted more of thing he didn't like.

How do you feel about buddy cop movies like Lethal Weapon where there's always the "loose cannon" character who's actually the cool one who does all the action hero stuff and gets the best results because when there's a timebomb, there's no time for red tape?

>Hasn't Hal always been the right equivalent to Green Arrow's left leaning views?
I always got the impression Hal was mostly ignorant and neutral guy stuck between Ollie's left leaning arguments and Barry's right leaning arguments.

Hell Batman regularly interrogates guys by dangling them off roofs.

If you really want to pose these questions, the fiction that would come out of it would be too self reflective and it might just become too post modern for your taste. The psuedo ethical/moral boundaries of Superhero fiction has always been too abstract. People are just more concerned about providing the self satisfactory and self indulgent fiction and as history has shown, that really is the best way to go for the genre. If people get too caught up about some bones being fractured every time Batman is fighting thugs or the collateral damage when Superman is fighting a heavy hitter, only fiction you will end up enjoying is the one that's satirical or taking itself too seriously.

Hawkman's more Ollie's rival in political beliefs. Barry's another unopinionated character who sometimes gets shoehorned into the same role as Hal just because he works for the cops and looks like a square.

Oh yeah forgot about Hawkman, him and Ollie are always arguing when in the same room.

Are you getting this from Kevin Smith comic or does this have any more substance beyond that?

>Somehow, Johns has determined how to push the nostalgia buttons of man-children like himself who can’t manage to expand the boundaries of their sphere of knowledge beyond stories of muscular behemoths in colorful, skin-tight costumes beating each other into oblivion, and he has shaped the industry to his liking, convincing everyone that this is how superhero stories should be told.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

It dates back way before Smith. I believe it started in late 70's JLA.

forgot pic

Damn I didn't know the blogger is arm chair psychoanalyst as well.

...

Didn't read the whole article, but his description of Johns is spot on at least.

Meant to quote OP.

This is guy who called Bendis the best modern comic boook writer

And Shit all over Dawyne Cooke fuck him.

Welp. Now I know he's full of shit.

No Mark Waid's pushed the Flash as a Conservative for a long time.

Sounded more like projection, OP

Source?

>Everyone who disagrees with me is OP
There is there this nice script called Sup Forums X that allows you to know when an new has posted in a thread, you should try it.

You mean Wally?

Star Wars is actually an incredibly useful tool for academic breakdown of stories as it popularized Joseph Campbell's Monomyth writings which contributes significantly to myth analysis, which is basically studying how stories are formed

has there ever been a more "successful" comic book writer who doesn't have any actual critical acclaim or creator owned work?

I'm pretty sure Johns has a creator-owned OGN through Image

I really do need to know what people and the blogger meant when he said Johns is nostalgia pandering. I mean sure, the whole bring back my favorite Superhero of Silver Age and make him great again is based on nostalgia and for nostalgiafags but other than how is it evocative of nostalgia? Because it used an Alan Moore idea from 30 years ago that only hardcore Moorefags or Lanternfags know about? Is it the writing style or where narrative is going? See his Superman is nostalgia pandering with all the Donner homages and LoSH stuff. His GL stuff isn't really that.

Sure thing OP

Hal never had a personality anyway. Hal got so much hype not for the character itself but for what he represents, the silver age and cape comics allowing legacy characters to stick and truly replace the older characters.

The fanboys are getting old and can't deal with it.

Not saying you're a Johnsfags, but this is another retarded thing that Johnsfags use to defend Johns.
>The character is inheritantly boring, it's not Johns fault for not making the protagonist interesting.

Not a Johnsfags. Personally I found pathetic that Johns had such a big connection to a bland character only for what he represents, muh childhood, and he tries so hard to hype him as the second coming. Hal and Barry just irk me in the wrong way, they should never return. Is it really that terrible to allow cape comics to evolve?

Skimmed most of it.
Read like an exaggeration of any real issues and poking at things that aren't issues to be extra critical.
Like a youtube critic for some videogame, except no quick simple visuals like you'dget from ZeroPunctuation nor crued-but-clever ways to describe a turd like AngryVideogameNerd.

Whoever made this should have simply made a long youtube video to ignore.
Or have friends recreate explanations of it like Max Landis did for Death of Superman.
No one who has not GL fans would bother reading something this long. And most GL fans loved johns run so are gonna want to skim it at best since they know they liked it and this 10 page article won't convince them otherwise.

Hal was never gone like Barry was though, and why let a character be defined by a story as rushed and poorly done as Emerald Twilight when you can rehabilitate their reputation and make them not bland anymore?

It's the kind of generic criticism like "Johns is bringing back the Silver Age" which convieniently ignores that he got started on Silver and Bronze comics but when he started actually buying and collecting he was buying 1980's (and maybe early 90's) comics or how Hal Jordan and Barry Allen were also around during the Bronze Age instead of just Silver.

I hate to admit it, but I think I see more sincere analysis and writing from here than I do from people like in OP's link.

The thing is, the use of the term "Bronze Age" was a lot less common when Johns started on GL than it is today on Sup Forums.

Most people used to countenance the DC timeline as "Gold, Silver, Post-Crisis"

>Most people used to countenance the DC timeline as "Gold, Silver, Post-Crisis"

I've never heard that at all. In the 90's people were referring to DC's 70's books as Bronze Age.

well of course you do, Sup Forums only speaks the unvarnished truth

or it's baiting

or both

it's hard to tell

I just think there's too many journalists and columnists trying too hard to be contrarian and it comes off more try hard and needy than people who do it for free on Sup Forums.

Not OP, but post-crisis was definitely a thing back in the early internet comics fandom. Bronze age less so.

>86 replies
>31 replies

OP trying to get Johns hate meme over?

On the forums I frequented throughout the early 2000's, it was actually a very common thing to see discussion asking whether or not the Bronze Age was a legit "age" considering there's no clear start marker compared to "Barry Allen's creation"

Post-Crisis I can believe people used, but I've seen books and magazines in the early 90's refer to 70's as Bronze, for both Marvel and DC.

The only thing I can think of that follows what early internet comics fandom was using was that DC Cosmic Cards where they only had "Golden, Silver, and Modern".

I always thought it was The Night Gwen Stacy Died or Green Lantern #76

>hoodedutilitarian.com/
>this meme website still exists

>people respond multiple times to an actual discussion thread
what are you trying to prove here

It's technically dead. Only Noah Berlatsky updates it to link to his writings on other sites.

> I use meme as a derogatory term because that makes me cool
mhm

hoodedutilitarian is still garbage and dead regardless of your preferred usage of meme

See that's the thing people argue about, "The Bronze Age" isn't defined by a major publishing event that changed the direction of the industry, but by moderate changes in writing habits, which is different from what defines all the other ages and caused people to debate whether or not Bronze counts.

I mean it's still an era regardless of quibbles in start date

Well most of Sup Forums will agree with you now, I'm just saying that used to be a contested opinion.

Another frequent argument I saw was that you need to be sufficiently removed from the time period you're examining to be able to tell whether or not something had been a real "age"...so maybe 30 years wasn't long enough for them but 40 is.