I don't really read Superman, so a friend of mine was explaining what he thought his appeal was and he mentioned how in one comic (that he couldn't cite) where Supes had a computer that listed all the people he failed to save. It sounded really depressing, and honestly made me a bit more curious about him
So I was wondering if Superman did that sort of stuff? How often does the man of steel tear himself apart over what he can't do?
Other urls found in this thread:
Superman: Peace on Earth is a good example of that sort of superman. He goes on a mission to try to solve world hunger and everything goes horribly wrong
Another one where superman tries to carry the whole world on his shoulders is Superman: Red Son
If he couldn't save, how did he open the file later?
Don't know the issue, but there's one story where a villain is in the fortress trying to kill him because she thinks he's full of hubris.
Then some machine that lives there or something shows her the massive amounts of letters he has, about half of which are saying "Why didn't you save my mommy/daddy/husband/son/ so on.
...
...
Woah, that is really fucked.
I wonder how much Superman's therapist makes.
Anyone know the issue for this? I need to read that.
I'm like 90% sure it was during Kelly's run.
...
His Hitman appearance had him beat himself up for failing to save an astronaut. There was also a series of JLA classified issues based on the league talking to each other about their failures and close calls. Superman talks about how a rookie hero got himself killed on his watch.
Superman's also failed to save his dad.
The idea that he struggles with the fact that he isn't all powerful, that he can't save everyone is a nice angle I wasn't aware of.
I'll have to go read a bunch of Superman.
You can save anyone.
But you can't save everyone.
Go read Peace on Earth. It's one of the best examples of this and it's my personal favorite.
...
You I like, user.
Infinite strength does not mean you can be everywhere at once, nor does it mean you can always save the people around you that might as well be made out of tissue paper compared to you.
The bottle city of Kandor was always a great metaphor for the kind of melancholy Superman experiences. He can look at the world, see everything happening everywhere, but he can't touch it.
...
>The bottle city of Kandor was always a great metaphor for the kind of melancholy Superman experiences. He can look at the world, see everything happening everywhere, but he can't touch it.
Except that he can shrink himself any time and visit it.
But that's bullshit. Clark arrived on Earth when he was an infant and has gone throug his formative years believing himself to be an American human. And even after he learned about his origins, he didnt know shit about his Kryptonian legacy for a longest time.
Does the world at large thinks, that he came here already grown up?
Later developments in the Silver Age. Remember that Superman more or less brought back Krypton by enlarging Kandor and moving it to Rokyn.
As light on continuity as pre-crisis DC was there was still some continuity.
>Does the world at large thinks, that he came here already grown up?
Pretty much.
Pretty much.
Most people don't wonder what his secret identity is because they don't think he has one.
His name is Kal-El, his planet blew up, and he lives in the Fortress of Solitude.
Ennis was probably drawing on the Silver Age where it was established that Superboy knew from a young age about his past (both because Silver Age Superman had a perfect memory and because he intercepted the light from Krypton while flying out in space and saw it die) and considered himself a Kryptonian.
In the modern age his Kryptonian identity was gradually eroded, particularly with Byrne making Krypton a bunch of isolationist emotionless screws.
Remember that Ennis, like Morrison and Moore, was writing the Superman that he liked, the Superman he grew up reading in Scotland.
>Ennis
>Scotland
YOU FUCKING WHAT, MATE?
That was actually his origin in the radio show.
He came to earth a grown man who spoke perfect english.
Ah fuck I just realized...
Tommy and the average Joe in the DC universe only know Superman as the Strange Visitor from the Planet Krypton because that's what he revealed to them through his interviews with Lois Lane.
They don't know about Clark or Smallville or any of that. Those are secrets.
I actually don't like it when a writer pushes this theme for Superman, because it implies a certain level of ordinary bad shit going on in the background that he must be ignoring or willfully blinding himself to every moment he is awake.
Not only does he have a general awareness that, at any given time, there is likely a rape or murder occurring somewhere in the world that is within his power to stop, but his senses are so powerful that he is probably able to detect those things as they happen.
So when you get down to it, that guilt is really the cost of his choice to spend time living a normal life as Clark Kent. Sure, he's earned the right to have that life, but at the same time, "yeah, I've done enough" is not really a sentiment that I would expect from Superman.
user, think about every fucking black guy in college who starts out life perfectly fucking normal only to suddenly turn 18, throw on a fucking orange rug poncho, and then declare himself Kishwa Gnip-Gnop. Adopting the culture of your ancestors is practically a right of passage for a shit-ton of people who were born in middle class America.
Frankly, I'm more surprised there wasn't a time in Clark's teens where he threw on a bunch of old Kryptonian clothes and demanded only to be called Kal El by his parents.
I don't think it's so much a "I've done enough" sentiment, I think it's part of his drive to want to be human. He wants to live normally, have a plain job, a plain relationship, and live.
But he has these powers so he spends more time as Superman.
Plus the stress levels you'd rackup being supes 24/7 would drive you to put a kryptonite bullet in your brain.
I think it's more a "I need a moment to be human" and even then he darts from constantly when someone is in trouble
Clark was more of a repressed teen than expressive. Superboy would 100% be pulling that shitm
Meant for
witch one was this from?
All Star #6
For an interesting take on the idea of Superman being overwhelmed by work see The Samaritan from Astro City.
You have to remember though Superman isn't the only one out there with super senses that can detect and stop problems. He lives in a world of super speeders and magicians. That takes a lot of the edge off I imagine.
Action Comics Vol 1, 807 & 808
I honestly don't understand this version of Superman. The fucker is officially Flash levels of fast when the writers bother to remember how stupidly broken his physical abilities are.
I don't know why but whenever I see this page I think the last panel is him going "REEEEEEEE" instead of "AAAAAAAA".
I recommend Secret Identity. It's an elseworld but it captures the spirit really well and is pretty good intro to the character without a ton of continuity necessary.
>Boston Brand, 48. Nanda Parbat, CN
Come on should you really count that one?
>but at the same time, "yeah, I've done enough" is not really a sentiment that I would expect from Superman.
But that's you projecting unreasonable expectations to Superman. You want him to basically be an autonomous robot that literally spends every single second of his existence saving people.
That's a pretty fucking dumb page.
Those were for charity. Clark.
Bet that number gets really high on the days he's playing grabass with Jimmy around the office.
It's been pretty much been established since the bronze age that he NEEDS those timeouts for his mental health. Even in the bronze age, he could live on as Clark without being Superman, but having some guilt to live with, but he couldn't be Superman 24/7
It's either spending some time having a normal life, and write some articles which might help people, too, and spend the rest of his time being Superman, or sooner or later stop being Superman altogether
Seems to be overwhelmingly US Americans. You would expect more Chinese and Indian people - and definitely more Syrians and Iranians right now.
And Yemenites, Congolese, Kenyans, Sudanese...
Incidentally, 164,788 is WELL above the daily global death average - about a third, in fact. So.. Superman is making everything worse???
Unless he is omnipotent or has a duplicating power, it is impossible to be everywhere at once.
He laments that.
youtube.com
Now that i think about it supes doesn't have a lot of non super friends, bats isn't exactly the best at talking and hanging out, poor clark
You don't have to be EVERYWHERE at once.
Odd how you rarely see Superman stopping wars.
"Um, General..."
"What is it?"
"Superman just did a flyby..."
"...Oh, god. What did he do?"
"He blasted the engines of all our tanks to slag, melted the tails off all of our helicopters and planes and..."
(...)
"...What was that? What was that noise?"
"...He just blew up munitions storage Alpha - and - yep, there he goes - "
(...)
"...That was storage Sigma, wasn't it?"
"..Yes, sir."
"Did he leave anything?"
"The canteen, sir."
Okay, seriously though... he might not be able to stop war, but he could sure as hell stem its tide.
This is a world where shit like Brainiac, Starro, Darkseid, etc exist.
I wouldn't be surprised if the death toll was higher in the DCU than ours.
He's tried, he's seen as an american combatant which is a big fucking problem for everyone in america who doesn't want to go to war.
You know a story where he did just that?
Injustice
You know how that ended? With America (and batman) complaining about muh freedom, kidnapping his parents, and branding him as a terrorist
>has a duplicating power
Also he used to have a bunch of robots that looked like him and had powers like his (but probably not quite as powerful).
Plenty, clair foster is superman's shrink. If i remember correctly he was under therapy when lois separated from him for a period of time. Good thing claire is good friends with j'on so clark gets a discount
Bit of context here: i believe superboy was supposed to have a few more moments with his dad before he dies but due to his arrogance he never was able to
...Why the hell would he care??? He's not the American goodwill ambassador! Isn't stopping a war more important than some people whining in the UN?
"How does the USA respond to allegations that they are deploying the American Superman to fight their wars for them like some kind of world police?"
"By pointing out he did the same thing to the US nuclear arsenal he did to the Russian, British, French, Chinese, Israeli, Indian and Pakistani."
Horseshit. That's saying "Once he starts, he won't know when to stop!"
Yeah, because he is a retard. No.
Are you retarded? Do you not understand why the world declaring war on the U.S is a bad thing?
>Superman stopping
You're misunderstanding all sorts of things. There's a pretty well known story among comics fans that have the Guardians of Oa talking to Clark about whether or not he is doing too much for humanity. In essence, he can't do things like solve wars - it would be getting into various issues which are not clear cut.
A tornado or a tsunami is a totally different issue. It's very clear what should be prevented and there's no question about people being in harms way. And even then, that's the kind of issue that's being discussed here. Typically there could be say an Earthquake in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, that causes a tsunami in various places in the Far East, all the way to Australia and including the Korean peninsula and Japan. If you're Superman, where do you go FIRST? Where do you go second? And what if there's a volcano eruption in Iceland or Greenland at the same time? Or an airplane is falling from the sky over Europe.
The world would not declare war on the USA because of something Superman does for several reasons:
1) It would be insane - a mutual suicide pact.
2) The USA and Superman would both declare the US government does not control or condone his actions.
3) Superman would demolish the US' arsenals same as any other nation's.
4) A war would be practically impossible under those circumstances anyway.
So... are you retarded for not understanding this sublimely simple concept?
But there is so much he can do in a few minutes. Most natural disasters don't happen all at once. And deciding where to go first or second is not the same as not deciding at all.
As for war: at what point is it no longer morally acceptable for him to do nothing? Would Superman have stopped the Holocaust?
Oh my bad, you are actually retarded.
It isn't that simple you fucking idiot
>a certain level of ordinary bad shit going on in the background that he must be ignoring or willfully blinding himself to every moment he is awake
You're totally misunderstanding how this has been treated in canon. When Clark is being Superman, there are still numerous situations where 'a certain level of ordinary bad shit' happens. It could be happening in every one of the fifty states and 500 other places on the planet at the same precise moment.
The canon has established that (a) he knows regular public servants: cops, fireman, ordinary human beings (as was clear in Manchester and in London recently, for example), doctors and EMTs, etc., as well as the fact that in the DC Universe there are numerous other superheroes not just in the States but elsewhere.
This is all totally separate from Clark's everyday life, as a reporter, husband, farther, etc.
I accept your admission of defeat.
Well, then please explain it to me in terms my obviously inferior mind can understand.
Thing is, the entire dynamic of global issues changes if you introduce the Superman factor. If he acts fast enough - which he can - he could catch even a nation as powerful as the USA off-guard; and even if he did not - how would they stop him?
Let's say he decided to prevent the possibility of nuclear war alone. Just that, nothing else, to simplify the matter. If Superman unilaterally decides to avert the possibility of a global nuclear war by disabling or destroying the world's nuclear arsenals - let's say he deposits the weapons on the Moon, where he then dismantles them - what would the global consequences be? Human osychology typically can accept negative developments a lot more easily if they hit everybody equally, ie, if NOBODY got to have nukes anymore, the global community would be able to accept it, psychologically speaking. Especially since they can't really do anything about it.
>what would the global consequences be?
well for one, a shitload of small nations that lack a proper army and only avoid being invaded because they have a nuke or two would immediately get invaded
don't be a bitch aka a Batfan and storytime something please
>where to go first or second is not the same as not deciding at all.
Again, this has been discussed in canon.
He does need to make that decision and so he makes it: where can I do the most to help the most. And, then yes, you are correct, as he is able, he goes on to the next and then the next situation.
You are mistaken in thinking it's a decision to do nothing at any point in time.
The comic pages posted above clearly indicate that it happens in canon and posit one possible reaction by Superman. No where is there any indication it is a 'choice' to 'do nothing.'
There isn't 'a shitload' of such nations. There's one: North Korea. And if they didn't have nukes, nobody would give a shit at all.
No, I agree. I meant Superman can't be rendered impotent by facing him with two or more emergencies at once, so the "he can't be everywhere at once" argument falls through... and for a guy who can move across the globe in minutes, 'simultaneously' is an extremely narrow notion.
I'm trying to make a slightly different point. It's not that I think Superman should be on duty 24/7. I just don't think it is within Superman's personality to stand by and do nothing when something tragic is happening that he has the power to affect.
Why are Superman fan fiction comics always so retarded?
I think this is worse than old man Superman destroying the Earth in the far-off future.
Too pure for this board.
The superman who has told his what, ten year old son that every moment he spends being a husband and father, a normal human being. Is people he's choosing to let die and that he has to bear that cross.
Superman has the power to do anything but not everything, among that list is "Have a normal life and stay sane so as not to lose sight of why being superman is worthwhile."