Why in your opinion, the major problems have the movie?

Why in your opinion, the major problems have the movie?

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>Ruins Finn
>Discards setup
>Humour ruins a lot of scenes and characters
>Rey is just there
>Holdo

>Rey is a Mary Sue. She has 0 training, but is a match for Kylo and even Luke. Why not just give her some kind of back story that explains how she became so good at fighting and using the force.
>Lukes character assassination.
>Milking of weird space creature.
>Fishing in the most ludicrously complicated way possible.
>Attempted to kill his nephew because he “sensed potential future” evil, even though he never gave up on Vader, who had already committed mass genocide, and personally killed children.
>Turning his back on friends, family, religion, existence.
>Luke fakes out Kylo with a hologram, in order to avoid being killed. But then he dies seconds later, from the exhaustion of projecting the hologram.
>Leia flying like marry Poppins.
>All other star wars movies have a span of time between them, to create an Epic that spans the ages. That is why there is a crawl at the start of the movies. It’s to explain what has been going on. However, TLJ happens moments after TFA, with no time for epic character development.
>Where are the knights of Ren?
>Pointless Casino Planet side story that added nothing to the overall plot.
>If Rose and Finn can escape together to a distant system, and then return, undetected, why can’t everyone take turns sneaking off and on in this fashion? Two or more leave in a pod, one comes back, two or more leave, one comes back, etc.
>Kylo Ren shirtless scene wearing urkel pants.

>Forced Jokes that make no sense.
>Iron/spaceship gag
>Finn walking around in a bubble suite.
>Luke drinking space milk.
>All random Porg scenes.
>Captain Phasma being killed by the Janitor.
>Basket Ball 8 driving a walker... hohoho, so funny. So much funnier than when cheque and the ewoks did it in RotJ
>Finn, trying to save his friends with an amazing act of Love (Agape), is stopped and told, “we’re going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but by saving what we love”. The problem, is that Finn was not full of rage at this moment, or trying to kill anyone, he literally was motivated by saving people.
>How did an injured Finn and Rose run all the way back to the Base without being killed by all the First Order troops that were standing right next to them
>Benicio Del Toro stuttering for no reason.
>Death of Admiral Ackbar for no reason. Just a mention of him dying. Why even bring him up. Should have just not even mentioned him. Why even include him in the movie just to kill him in such a pointless way.
>Based on the timeline of the movie, Han just died. No one talks about it? No funeral? Seems odd that no one noticed that he died. No one seemed upset about it.
>Why wouldn’t Holdo or Leia just tell Poe her plan to stop the mutiny?
>How is Holdo’s plan even a secret. The New Order would easily be able to track their trajectory to the next closest planetoid.
>Why can’t the New Order just use hyperspace to jump in front of the resistance ships and surround them, how does this make any sense.
>the First Order has a tracker on just one ship, so why don't all the other ships jump to hyperspace and just abandon the lead ship with the tracker on it?
>Luke throwing his lightsaber over his shoulder for comic relief. This totally ruined all of the build up of TFA and makes no sense at all.

-Rey is still a Mary Sue
-Rose is just bait for chinese audiences, even though she's pig ugly and useless
-Holdo is an SJW self-insert
-Luke is completely rewritten and turned into a cowardly hermit just so that Rey can essentially steal his role
-Snoke has no payoff, he's just killed off because they didn't know what to do with him
-Leia shouldn't use the force, she has it, but other than communicating with Luke, she doesn't have a connection that strong
-Typical Disney/Marvel humour to please the kids rather than being serious like it should be at this point in the story.

>Shitting on fans by having Supreme Leader Snoke call Kylo Ren a lame Darth Vader cosplayer. He literally called his helmet ridiculous, and told him to take it off. Ren smashes the helmet and crys.
>Luke handing Leia her late's husband golden dice as a keepsake, but LOL IT WAS JUST AN ASTRAL PROJECTION.
>Leia just leaves the dice on the floor before she knows they are fake. Because who cares about Han.
>Lacking in actual alien diversity, focusing instead on diversified humans
>Literally ZERO character development, the only thing that happened is characters died or became ambiguous in nature, that's it.
>Pink hair for the captain's chair
>Luke becomes a literal useless infant
>A full galaxy and only 400 human rebels? What is this, a joke? This isn't even Waco tier. JUST
>most of the leading women (especially Rose and Holdo) make retarded decisions that blow up spectacularly in their faces and leave the Resistance worse off in the aftermath.
>Leia not communicating properly with Poe
>Rey openly trusting Kylo
>Rose stopping Finn’s sacrifice, allowing the Nu-Empire to assault the bunker door and the two of them somehow not getting sautéed by Walker fire
>everything that comes out of Holdo’s mouth.
>phasma portraid as a total loser who can't do anything right.
>Finn and Rose being shocked they were double crossed by DJ. He wasn't an old friend like Lando to Han in ESB, but a random, shady, indifferent criminal who made it clear he had no moral compass.
>portraying Yoda as a cackling, drunken old master like in Empire. The problem is that Yoda only acted like that in Empire in order to test Luke when he didn't suspect he was Yoda at all. He drops the act for the rest of the trilogy once Luke finds out. It's not actually Yodas personality.
>Why did Holdo pull rank on Poe, even though he’s like the 3rd highest ranking officer left, if she’s later going to tell Leia that she thinks he’s the next choice to lead the resistance?

>Holdo tells Poe not to go on a suicide mission. Holdo then goes on a suicide mission
>Bringing back Maz and giving it screen time. What was with that out of place shoot out / video conference. Very hokey.
>C3P0 does the same old joke about calculating odds. Droids do nothing in the movie, just like TFA.
>The imperial ships turbo lasers can't hit a ship directly in front of it.
>Why is Finn reprimanded for trying to sacrifice himself to stop the First Order in between Luke and Holdo doing the same thing?
>Why did the two former slaves rescue the race horses instead of the child slaves?
>How the fuck does this force balance thing work? How is Rey stronger after Snoke dies? Why does she more powerful than Ben if she’s supposed to meet his power? Why is she able to move the rocks if Luke and Leia are still alive? Isn’t that 3 super powerful light side users compared to one darkside user? Shouldn’t she have had to wait for Luke to die to have enough force mana to lift the boulders?
>The explanation TLJ gives for Rey being a Mary Sue, is pretty lame. Kylos training powered her up. She is the light side that meets the dark, so whenever Kylo trains and becomes more powerful, she automatically 'levels up' to meet that power without having to do a single thing. It is such a shitty and unsatisfying explanation. Just very bad writing.
>After seeing TLJs force balance logic: Why isn't Luke as powerful as Vader in ESB? Obi Wan died in the last film, so there are now equal Jedi to Sith (Yoda/Luke, Sheev/Vader). Training in Nu-Wars is irrelevant as long as there is someone on the other side of the force who is powerful to give you a boost, so did Luke need to find Yoda to train at all? Shouldn't he have 'Rey-ed out' on Bespin and kicked Vaders ass?

It all boils down to completely out of control jew agenda pushing

Treat the disease, not the symptoms

the overall message
the editing and special effects of some scenes
mishandled lore and characters

Needed more feminist agenda.

>Timeline is all fucked up and makes no sense, the entire movie including all the Rey/Luke scenes and travel time to and from planets apparently takes place during the chase.
>Fucked up scale that makes no sense. "There are 400 of us" is retarded. That's 20x smaller than ISIS.
>Horrible humor
>Rose's cheesy fucking lines and fanfic-tier characterization
>Horrible humor
>The womansplaining scene just made that character come across as a cunt
For the most part I thought Rey was actually fine this movie but she just does nothing to make me actually care about her struggles. She barely feels like the protagonist because the plot is so scattered.

>Rose
>Holdo
>some humor
>Canto
>pacing, too much fat.
>needed more scenes with already established characters, luke, rey, kylo.
>leftist agenda jerking.
>people who desperately love/hate it.
>Sup Forums
>fans
>these threads.
thats all the problems i had.
oh and this nigger's tears are ruffling my jammies.

It had a lot of pacing issues. It was very long because of pointless b-plots. The humor was bad, and I didn't appreciate that they basically reduced Hux to comic relief. Nothing of value was added to any of the side characters, and they were so dull and uninteresting that it literally would have been better if they weren't in the movie.

Besides that, this trilogy as a whole is just stupid. How did the New Republic fall to the First Order? Aren't the FO technically the rebels? Did the Republic not have a military? Where does the ResistanceTM fall into this? None of these things are explained. Instead Disney execs just decided they'd do a rehash of Rebels vs Empire with new names.

>If Holdo is a vice admiral, why doesn't she wear a uniform?
>Finn's character completely forgets development he had in TFA and everything he does in the movie is pointless
>FO are a bunch of idiot cartoon villains
>the entire dialogue between Poe and hux was lame... so childish, unfunny, and unbelievable.

Detailed review review:
youtube.com/watch?v=vw7pcCj0ORk

Mark Hamill hates TLJ:
youtu.be/i0biqMZrxJ0

>Why in your opinion, the major problems have the movie?
w-what?

No overarching plan for the trilogy, preoccupation with meta narrative, awful side plots, unlikeable characters, poor treatment of few likable characters, almost every plot falls apart with barely any scrutiny, tonal and thematic dissonance, I could go on but goddamn

the fact that most faggots on Sup Forums in general don't even know what the male equivalent of a mary sue is called is part of the reason why i dont buy the whole mary sue claim.

it existing

Kylo feels like the protagonist, but they went full retard with him in the last bit. He went from a complicated character, poised to take over as a type of villain we’ve not yet seen, but regresses into a screaming, ineffective child who gets punked by Luke

This

not a simple storyline. The original trilogy was so simple. Rebel: good. Empire: bad. Darth Vader and stormtroppers looked like Nazis. Vader did evil shit. The simplicity is what makes it so great!

Schizophrenic tone and the butchering of Luke Skywalker's character

first time autismo got rejected, he even killed cgi emperor for her

the thing is, you can only do so much with a simple good vs evil story. The original trilogy pretty much exhausted that trope. So now you either get a rehash of the OT or new and different things that may or may not be good -- but don't have the same "Star Wars" feeling as the OT

Certain EU properties handled it well enough

its honestly a sad tired beast, incapable of adapting with the worst fans on earth due to its frankly undeserved pedestal and popularity.

>Why in your opinion, the major problems have the movie?

certain ones, yes but we are talking about films aimed at the millions.

Yeah. I was ready to forgive TFA based on the trailer for TLJ. I thought they were going the interesting route of Rey going bad and Kylo getting redeemed. Obviously you can't really come back from killing your own father, but Kylo creating a monster and realizing he has to end it would have made a good episode 8/9.

My favorite character in TLJ was Jake Skywalker.

i unironically liked jake

ive been hearing the term mary sue for like 6 years and i've never heard a male equivalent

Jake was a more likable character than Luke.
>Luke senses a little good in a child murderer and still has hope that he can be redeemed
>Jake senses evil in his nephew and his first action is attempted murder
Jake knows how to get shit done.

Gary Stu.

he shouldve went through with it, but the luke part held him back.

What the fuck are you trying to say, pajeet?

youtube.com/watch?v=Mdm8rpv045U

youtube.com/watch?v=hUt9TRr6aPg

is this suppose to make luke look bad? he was clearly toying with her till she went for the saber.

Based cowering white man poster

>thinks he might turn bad
>stopped watching
see this is where i cant agree with most people on tv. Its almost as if people are purposely ignoring the context just to get better footing for their own opinions. Jedi visions have always been pretty accurate in the saga. They are just a tool for tragic irony. Rey is a shit character, but honestly only like luke that much more and coincidentally like her even less.

The new
>bad Finn development
>bad boring and just plain weird new characters
>major plotline in the movie revealed to be irrelevant and has no grand consequence on the movie as a whole
>prequel-tier shit with canto bight and bb8
>way too many heroes
we have the new main trio, Finn, Rey and Poe, and obviously we need luke leia and han, but they decide to add in Holdo Rose and del Toro because ???
>Rey is dark sided but the movie fails to point it out
>Luke dodges some ligthsaber then dies
>Leia out of commission for 90% of movie so Admiral HoldmybeerwhileIcrashthisfranchise could have screentime
>empire 2.0
TFA already made empire 2.0, but Rian had the opportunity to make it different. Instead we got Praetorian guards but this time with EXTRA armor

It's just a bad movie

I guess he did subvert our expectations though - we were expecting Luke to be likable and do cool stuff

del toro was the coolest guy in the movie

that's the dumbest reason ever. either the character fits the description or not.

He spoke with a weird pointless accent and was part of a dumb plot.

If they had done it right maybe he'd be cool. But you could say that about anybody

It glorifies terrorist ideology
> let go of the past by violently destroying established culture

Gary Stu, but that doesn't make Rey any less of a sue.

nothing made sense
really
character motivations
character actions
overall story
its was a mess in every sense
the sjw shit you all complain about wasnt even that bad in comparison

That shit was f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f-fucking retarded

half of sw fans love darth maul
which is 100 times worst than deltoro

It is less coherent than your post

I looked up Snoke's death and Luke vs Kylo.

Oh my god. I honestly feel insulted, like as if they said "Hey, remember how The Force Awakens had a tiny glimmer of hope? WELL FUCK YOU"

Not even sure if I want to pirate this movie, all it can do is make me depressed that my favourite franchise is dead.

>subversion for the sake of subversion that results in numerous logical failures
>constantly underminds whatever points it tries to make
>poor character development
>contrived plots for the sake of a scene or quip
>narrative inconsistencies (needs a script doctor badly)
>Holdo and Rose full stop
>Canto Bight
>destroys more than it creates
>is a wheel spinner of a movie which ends with a galactic reset and the central theme embraced exclusively by the bad guy

No plot arch between first and second movies. Snoke is dead already.

Characters don't have meaningful interactions with eachother.

Rey has no character motivation. Why does she joins the rebels? How is she even linked to Kylo in the plot????

Thrown in old characters that do nothing (c3p0)

Its a copy of OT Empire vs. Rebels AGAIN.

No literary themes.

Worse is that there arent enough good toys.

Rogue One was the best, but its flawed too.

Star Wars is not a franchise about plot points, logic, or actions; it’s a franchise about ideas and feelings. And the point of this sequence is the idea of oppression and inequality, and the feeling of righteous indignation about it, and giving Rose the opportunity to vocalize those points and establish herself as the voice for that in this new trilogy. Because, again, it’s been a missed opportunity for a long time that Star Wars has been preoccupied with the experiences of royals, elites, religious orders, and other upscale characters at the expense of everybody else. It’s a really cool step to have this character, who’s essentially a one woman get-over-your-bullshit machine, come to this glamorous place and point out that the villainy isn’t just the space Nazis, it’s the upper class that lets the Nazis get away with stuff because they stand to benefit. You see, it’s the non-mystical, on the ground component that allows the film to get away from the narrowly classist vision of the Force going on in the Rey-Luke stuff

How? He's an interesting alien, the first sith we saw who wasn't vader or sheev, had a double lightsaber, was a badass (until he died)

del Toro was a codebreaker (or was he even?) who did nothing except sell Rose and Finn to FO, he's Lando but worse, and I notice you cant even remember his name

It would be faster to list what wasn't wrong. Every two minutes they flipped the direction of the narrative with some grandiose twist that had no previous substantiation in canon or in the episode. The major plot elements were based solely on miscommunication like a cheap tv sitcom. The supposed main protagonist, put the life of the main villain above the lives of all the people that he will kill in the future.

youtube.com/watch?v=Kj3opk1QFTM

all of it.

Isn't he supposed to be called a slicer and not a codebreaker? What is the SW lingo for hacker?

the gags are terrible, they feel so out of place. it's like when DC tries to pretend to be Marvel, but a thousand times more awkward. and the way they just wrote the movie around the gags was jarring. TFA felt like a bastardization of Star Wars, but frankly TLJ does not feel like a Star Wars movie at all - which leaves a particularly bad taste in the mouth when this false movie gets to kill off Luke Skywalker and no one can do anything about it. It's like some thug holding my cat hostage in front of me and killing it, and he gets to walk free. I want revenge.

Actually it's a commentary on how well meaning but stupidly tunnel-visioned and priority-challenged progressives are. Rose deemed their escape escapade as "worth it" after freeing a herd of space horses that will likely be captured again within 24 hours while not even considering the slave kids. Not their freedom, nor their inevitable punishment. Then she makes some comment about eeeeeeevil weapon merchants being the only source of high income in the Galaxy sometime before DJ points out those weapon merchants also help the Resistance. Rose later knowingly dooms the rest of said Resistance by sabotaging Finn's desperate sacrifice because of feelings that Finn clearly did not share. Then she sexually assaults him anyway and forces him to drag her fat ass back to safety.

Get on my analytical level.

Where'd you find that?

Snoke serves the purpose of making Kylo have the stepping stones of becoming a real and threatening villain. Problem is his existence would contradict everything in Star Wars lore up until this point and it’s nevee addressed or given a reasonable explanation, you’re told to just buy it.

The only real problems are the few cringey shots, even though what's happening isn't cringey. Also it felt pretty bloated. Like, I felt like the movie should've ended 20 minutes before it did. I really liked the movie, but yeah. Overall I enjoyed it QUITE a bit.

This movie LITERALLY has a
>it was a hologram
scene

Even from the very first scene in that big space battle shit just didn't make sense. You had a single x-wing destroying the turrets on a dreadnought which apparently had 0 shielding and 0 armor on the turrets since they all blew up from a single shot. Well maybe in this universe you can just fly through shielding but not shoot through them right? Except taking down shielding to sneak a ship on board was like 1/3 of the movie plot later on. These turrets where also too slow to fire on the x-wing despite being fucking point defense anti-aircraft cannons. When all the cannons where destroyed and it was too late they said "oh silly me we should have sent out the fighters 10 minutes ago lol". Then you have these slow as shit bombers moving in which are safe because they took out the turrets on the dreadnaught. That makes sense except there where also multiple star destroyers there. Any one of them could have wiped that bomber squadron out with their turbo lasers. Instead they just sat there and watched. Didn't fire a single shot. Didn't even send out their own TIE fighters. Literally did nothing because this is the only way the goodguys could win.

Also, Poe makes a big deal about taking out the turrets to clear the way for the bombers, then they get blown up pretty quickly by the fighters.

????

Plus the entire movie is a slow motion chase

The films isn't able to make a decision.
>Bridge is destroyed, Leia is sucked into space... only to survive by magically using the Force
>Kylo Ren kills Snoke and help Rey escape the Pretorian Guard... only to become the Supreme Leader himself and start trying to kill Rey again
>Luke shows up at the salt planet as a projection, fooling Kylo Ren and letting the rebels escape... only to die from exaustion.

The film is constantly frustrating its viewers by suggesting more interesting developments and then saying "no, we will not go as far as being creative and fun".

Other than that, the fact that so many people are nitpicking something like Star Wars (that is nitpick proof) is because the plot is too complicated and rely too much on science to work. It's not just "deactivate shields, shoot it til it explodes" anymore, it's a series of unbelievable happenings that ultimately fail to explain the situation the rebels are in. When something is silly and cartoonish, you don't bother looking to much into it. But when you create this really complicated setting, it needs to be tight for people to believe it.

profitability surverted

As someone who loves Star Wars, and has since childhood, I think I have a solid answer.

It’s almost as if the entire movie was a bunch of “This looks cool as hell, but only the first time you see it, and after the spectacle wears off you can pick the scene apart unendingly”.

Example:

1st viewing: Luke dying and the twin suns setting as he disappears is beautifully shot and emotional. It feels like a lot of planning went into how it was gonna look/sound/feel.

2nd viewing: Why did his robot hand dissapear if his clothes didnt?

Another Example:

1st Viewing: The fake out by Luke is awesome, with Kylo sperging out and the color red everywhere. It’s like a scene Kurosawa would have directed but with lightsabers

2nd viewing: How did Kylo not know that Luke was fake if he was using the lightsaber he just broke in the struggle with Rey? Couldn’t Luke have just lifted his ship out of the water and actually been there? Etc.

it's just not very good

Its a badly written mess.

It's codebreaker now.

That is a completely retarded position to hold.

>casino sub plot that didn't need to happen if holdo said her plan
>luke being a cranky old man and having quips at the same time
>movie starts and ends on the run, accomplishing nothing

>strong independent pink haired tranny crashes ship
>leaves no survivors

exited the torrent right there

TFA was a flawed film with its share of mistakes but at least it was setting things up and had some cool concepts:

>The mystery of Rey's parentage

>The mystery of Snoke: who is he and where did he come from?

>The Poe/Finn bromance that even its politically-motivated detractors praised

>The Knights of Ren which could emphasis how SW is like LOTR in space with a cadre of unique Nazgul style antagonists

>The return of Luke, one of cinema's most iconic heros

>Seeing both Jedi and Dark Side training

>The possibility of Rey becoming the first female Sith on screen

Lots of cool concepts and intriguing plot hooks to build off of in TFA.

Now as I said before, TFA is certainly a flawed film but its flaws were all very fixable:

>Rey was a Mary Sue for reasons you're all familiar with but her past and parentage could counteract that; such as her being a student of Luke's school who had her mind wiped. Darth Rey would also have been a bold fix

>Captain Phasma, the first female villain in SW was hyped but horrendously bungled. She had a great design and actress and lots potential but was literally trashed. This could easily be corrected however by having her be badass in TLJ and even have her kill Finn, which would redeem both characters and add lot of emotional weight

(1/2)

(2/2)

So those are some positives and negatives of TFA, which provides a very clear blueprint for a sequel: explore the cool concepts and possibilities established in TFA whilst correcting the mistakes.

But Rian DROPPED THE BALL AND SHOVED IT UP HIS ASS. He took everything interesting and likable about TFA and FUCKING TRASHED IT while DOUBLING DOWN on all of its flaws:

>"Finn and Poe bromance? Fuck that toxic masculinity, let's throw out a universally praised aspect of TFA and insert some fat chink no gives a fuck about in a cringy forced romance!"

>"Oh, you thought SW's first female villain would finally be awesome and kick rebel ass? Well, fuck you! She's too White, let's humiliate and kill her again!"

>"Knights of Ren? Who gives a shit! We need more time for useless subplots and alien cow tits!"

>"Who is Snoke and where did he come from?" You'll never know because I anticlimactically killed him without a second of backstory! Your Snoke theory sucks XD but I'm too fucking retarded to come up with anything better.

>"Rey's parentage mystery? Who cares, let's invalidate an entire movie's worth of set up and say she came from nowhere! Now she's an even bigger Mary Sue!"

>"Return of Luke? Ha, let's shit on his character and make him do things he never would have done and when we're finished trashing him, lets kill him off anticlimactically?"

>"Jedi and Sith training? Fuck you and your desire for seeing cool things you've never seen! Fuck the fans."

Rian had so much to work of off and so easily fixable flaws BUT HE STILL FUCKED IT UP HARD AS HE COULD FUCK IT UP. The sheer incompetence and almost systematic stupidity of his decisions are fucking mindboggling. Fuck Rian Johnson

They could have just made the movie everyone was expecting with very little effort and could easily have made 1.9 billion or more; and would have been an infinitely better movie. It was so fucking easy:

>paragraph worth of dialogue that normies would understand explaining that Snoke trained Palpatine and was hiding in an injured state until the time was right

>Luke was working on some esoteric Jedi stuff is a heroic character consistent with his OT portrayal. Doesn't die so his presence can help sell ep. 9

>Knights of Ren major players, would sell a fuck ton of toys

>Phasma is badass and kills Finn. Finns toys weren't selling but making Phasma badass would make her toys sell again. It would provide a 'shocking' and emotional moment that helps rather than hinders the story. It also gets feminist points by having a strong and capable female antagonist

>Finn and Poe bro adventure; popular with everyone.

>Rey origin that explains her powers; would quell a lot of criticism against her character

>Darth Rey; would be a surprise, sell toy variants, and get points for being the first female Sith on screen

>epic lightsaber showdowns

>Lots of Rey and Kylo training; is new and world-builds; plus Rey constructing her own lightsaber = more toy sales

>Rey, Luke, Snoke, and Kylo alive keeps stakes high to build hype and allow for an exciting and climatic confrontation in ep. 9

It was THAT FUCKING EASY. Better film; more money. So why the fuck did they go with the le ebin subversion route when it's so obviously a bad business decision to GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to explicitly deny customers what they want? WTF actually happened? They could have made 1.9, even OVER 2 bill. if they just gave people what they wanted and did the above. They are paying a MASSIVE price for this BS. Gone from China; down by 700 mill. assraped by Jimaji, they fucked up. The question is why?

>Finn needed somebody else to go who would actually challenge him and contrast his background

This is a good reason to make this change.

>TWO DUDES UGH

This is a bad reason to make this change.