How do I learn to enjoy this?

How do I learn to enjoy this?

Other urls found in this thread:

josswhedon.blogspot.com/2012/04/buffy-and-angel-episode-viewing-order.html
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Lorn and Amy Acker?

really dont get people that think its better than buffy. most be some political agenda muhh female character usurping western norms bull shit if you honestly think that is the case.

It's better in the respect that it's not centred around high school kids and their typical dramas. Some people really can't stand that but otherwise enjoy the b-movie sci-fi and supernatural of it all.

You fight through until the last season, which is the only good one.

i really only watch buffy crossover episodes and some of season 1. just couldn't get into it. i did like the faith episodes though.

Apart from the massive blunder that was season 4 this show just keeps getting better. Season 5 is one of the best final seasons I've ever seen in a show, and it has a superb finale, in stark contrast to the last season of Buffy which was pretty much dogshit

You watch it until pic related appears. The you just ignore the hackery and focus on how qt she is while you enjoy the good parts until you reach S5 where you can sit back and enjoy the kino

>b-movie sci-fi and supernatural of it all.
How do I stop taking it so seriously? Its just painful, trope after cliche after cheap stunt. All shows have these but this just goes out of its way to be one dimensional (which is its allure?)
I could watch supernatural s1-5 and genuinely enjoy it, the humour was alright, the characters were decent and even the monster of the week episodes were watchable.
But I just can't get any enjoyment out of buffyverse, its not a problem with whedonshit because I loved firefly.

watch buffy instead

You kidding? All of season 5 and the finale alone are enough to make it better than buffy. And even the character arcs in angel are far better even though there's only 5 seasons. Wesley's is probably one of the best on TV. Buffy is more comfy to rewatch though due to the school setting, especially season 2-4.

If it doesn't come naturally after about 10 eps, seek help.

You need to come over from Buffy and think Angel is a cool guy in the first place. But honestly, it gets better with each season having its own feel because each had a different director. Don't say we didn't warn you about the ending, though.

>"warn about the ending"
What warning would that be?
That it's one othe GOAT endings ever while it "ends" the story with a message but at the same time leaves an annoying cliffhanger?
Or that the final sequence is likely the most heartbreaking chain of events ever made for television?

>But I just can't get any enjoyment out of buffyverse, its not a problem with whedonshit because I loved firefly.

That doesn't really mean anything, though. Buffy was arguably at his worst or best depending on how you look at his style aka the way characters talk and behave.

>You need to come over from Buffy and think Angel is a cool guy in the first place

Nah man, a friend of mine needed to convince me to watch Angel because I fucking hated him in buffy, he was the special but boring brooding handsome vampire boyfriend for the self-important teen Buffy and nothing else. Every scene he was in was insufferable for me. A few eps in Angel I completely changed my mind about him and loved the show. So you don't have to like him to begin with.

i'd say angel is probably more consistent but it really lost me when they introduced connor and evil cordelia. thing is, I actually like the idea of turning angel into angelus and bringing faith back. but it goes to shit quickly from there.

while its more consistent, i dont think it really ever comes close to high watermarks of buffy like OMWF, hush, innocence, etc. buffy had a lot of low points like beer bad, but when it was at its highest, it was better than angel by a wide margin.

I think Angel had FAR more consistent seasons as a whole while Buffy had standout episodes. Then again, darker mood and themes in Angel may have just suited me more at the time.

Everyone hates the connor/evil cordy arc, it's no secret, me included. I actually dropped the show halfway in s04 because of it. But I can't dismiss the rest of it, especially since s05 is the best buffyverse season bar none. Hush and omwf are indeed amazing and the best buffy episodes, but to me That girl in question and the finale are just as good after rewatching.

Also I don't agree that buffy has bigger lows, I think buffy was more consistent overall and a few great highs while Angel lost it with connor badly but also rebounded greatly afterwards. Thing is, buffy keeps declining after s03 and ends badly with season 7, while Angel ends on a high note, which is important because the completion of a character's arc in the final season can add a LOT to the overall perception of a character by the viewers. And the writers pulled that off very well with Wesley, Fred and Spike in the final season. Can't say the same for buffy.

I really hate it when people start fighting over which show is better.
There's no objective method of measuring this.
In the end it's just a matter of personal appreciation.
Most Buffy fans will tell you they absolutely loved OMWF like the greatest episode in history or something. For others, like me, it's faggotry and a meh episode. But that's just like... my own opinion dude... It's okay if it's another user's favorite.
Mine's Hush btw.
And yes, I like Angel more, though I cannot say I prefer specific episodes. More like short story arc pieces. Pylea, the Beast reveal, when Jasmine takes over, Illyria...

I watched all of Buffy, then went straight to season 5 of Angel to see more of my man Spoike, when I finished it I decided to go back and check out the first 4 seasons, which definitely weren't as good. Wesley was great though and basically carried it. That's what I'd recommend to Buffy fans.

(You)

False. Season 4 is the good season. Season 5 is dreck and has a worse finale than Lost.

I wish I never bothered watching this entire fucking train wreck. One good season isn't worth 4 bad ones.

>until you reach S5 where you can sit back and enjoy the kino
and then remember the series was left unfinished and the comics are mediocre at best.

People really think this highly of s5? I was under the impression most people thought S2 or S3 were the best angel seasons. It just felt like any regular old season to me, no pressing threat and the ending didnt satisfy me either. and bringing Spike back for fan service just cheapened his sacrifice in Buffy imo. it didnt FEEL like a last season and the idea of taking over wolfram and hart was just... absurd to me

Also, my buffy season rankings:
3=2>5>7>6>1

it probably also depends on what characters you like more. I like angel, but as a whole, the cast of buffy was more appealing to me. I also thought charisma carpenter could only play the bitchy cheerleader, she wasn't very good as a mature, responsible cordelia.

>i'd say angel is probably more consistent but it really lost me when they introduced connor and evil cordelia.

From what I remember that entire arc was rushed and not planned at all because Charisma Carpenter didn't tell them she was pregnant out of fear she would get fired or something. In many ways Angel's strength as a show was seeing non-main cast characters from Buffy actually grow and develop because they finally had the room to do so.

...

>I really hate it when people start fighting over which show is better.
>There's no objective method of measuring this.
>angel has fred
>buffy does not have fred

objectively measured, angel is better.

>out of fear she would get fired or something
Then she got fired for getting pregnant. She clearly knew what kind of cunt Whedon was.

I hate the way Charisma Carpenter made them shoehorn in stuff about how magnificent were her fake tits after she got all that plastic surgery done

kek
well, when you say it like that, I guess it's not possible to argue.

I just read them for the Illyria bits. Way more enjoyable when you don't care about anything else.

You either like it or you don't. I'd definitely start with Buffy, and then follow the viewing order at:
josswhedon.blogspot.com/2012/04/buffy-and-angel-episode-viewing-order.html
The image links are all dead, but the actual list in the middle is intact.
Buffy is more variable in terms of quantity, and the last several seasons are mediocre-to-shit. While Angel doesn't have as many stand-out episodes as Buffy, it also doesn't have as many flops and the average quality is higher. That said, they're fairly different shows (especially comparing S1-4 Buffy to Angel).

Yeah, fair enough, it does depend on how much you liked certain characters and seasons. Season 5 is great because it completely changes the setting and forces team Angel to always consider the morally gray area rather than just killing the bad guy or demon and ending it there. Basically it's a great setup to develop the characters. Buffy never changed something radically like this. Plus it's a good thing that they brought back Spike in s05 because there was great potential in Angel-Spike interaction, and it delivered. The chemistry between the two is amazing. Whedon said in an interview that one of his biggest regrets about not getting a s06 is that he couldn't develop the Angel-Spike relationship further.

Regarding the characters, I liked Angel as a character more than Buffy overall, but both shows had an incredible supporting cast. However, Willow's arc in s06 really damages the character in that season and the next, and Xander just never really changes that much throughout the show. Giles is missing in 6 which was a crime, and is not as important in 7 which again is a retarded choice. Also Dawn is just horrible and is in every season after 4. The more buffy went on, the more the supporting cast got worse for me. Feel free to tell me what you think about them.

Compare that with Angel's supporting cast. Wesley alone is pulled off better than anyone else. Cordy has a decent arc until the whole evil thing that they were forced to do because of her pregnancy. Gunn also has a good arc, he gets what he wants in s05 and is significantly changed, or rather corrupted by his newfound powers and goes back to the basics in the finale. The viewers' expectation from Lorne is also subverted in the finale. Angel's character is tested many times throughout the season. Overall just great use of the characters.

My buffy season rankings:

2>3>4>5>6=7>1

Would put 5 over 4 but there's Dawn.

Why are some people so obsessed with Amy? I mean, she's a decent actress and cute, but what the fuck.

UNF

Saying Amy is cute is like saying black people are vaguely unpersonable

cus whedon knows how to pick them

> Angel's character is tested many times throughout the season.

For a hero through and through Angle was such a dumbass at times, though.

>gets the vampire Holy Grail equivalent
>immunity to sunlight and other vampiric weakness with none of the drawbacks
>destroys it because he wants to earn his redemption the hard way

yes, this is the truth

because she's not just cute, she's the cutest actress of all time and she's a genuinely great actress.

He just didn't feel he could resist the temptation of living a life. He felt he wasn't good enough to keep doing the right things if he had the ring.

Sope people like cats or sports, some people like Amy. Pick your reason, she's talented, underrated and the most beautiful and adorable woman I've ever seen, also a wonderful person irl. But if she's not your type, then she just isn't, no bigger science here. No big deal, you just move on.

Yeah I agree with . A recurring theme in Angel is that he considers himself mentally weak. This is constantly present because of his vampirism and need for blood (in season 4 for example it shows that Angel has been weak many times in the past, even when he had a soul he still took the opportunity to drink from a murder victim instead of calling an ambulance). Another facet of this weakness is his yearning for humanity and a normal life as represented by the shanshu prophecy.

I want her to do hardcore lesbian porn where she pegs the shit out of women while laughing cutely.

its like shadow run cept in modern times, its cool. wish there was more fantasy type shows of this nature with bros in a dnd type party.

WAY too fucking lewd, user...
Amy is pure and made for cute things like hugs and kisses...

There was something done right about 90s - early 2000s vampires
Mostly it was about thr "tortured soul" thing which was lost on later works and replaced by the "young and beautiful forever" faggotry.
Honestly, it felt like Vampire the Masquerade, where the battle to maintain humanity was a real deal, and the damnation was too.

Yeah, they definitely changed a lot over time. The implementation of vampires in the buffyverse and especially in Angel resembles VtM like you said but mostly in the personal struggle to remain human and not let the "Beast" take over. Although in the buffyverse it's almost a universal rule that vampires get taken over by the beast and very few retain their humanity and parts of their personality (like Spike and Angel or the scholar vampire working for Spike in buffy season 2). The similarities with VtM end there I think, since the world of darkness is a lot more "dark" and portrays its supernaturals in a much less comedic and hardless way compared to the buffyverse. Still, pretty interesting comparison.

Yeah, the "Beast" was an actual demon in the buffyverse, and you may consider it more dark.
I think both had notes of darkness, damnation and some comedy at times, like death, laughing at the living from the grave on a note of shakespearean drama. It's that "Noir" feel, also the presence of elder beings like Old Ones/Antedeluvians lurking beneath that world of sofisticated supernatural nightlife... Anyway, that's where my comparison comes from, I'm awara that in many other things these are very different. It's just something about the feels of the end of the millennium that some of these things had.

You raise a good points with the old ones and antediluvians actually, I hadn't thought about it. There's definitely more similarities than I thought. It's just that early Buffy was using the vampires as allegories for high school problems so they had to be cheapened accordingly. But both the vamps and other supernaturals got a more overwhelming and threatening presence in the final seasons with the turok hans and in Angel with old ones.

Yeah I liked that... Any good universe needs space to evolve it's own mythology. If we had been stuck on teenage problem vampires none of these shows would be a cult classic today. It's the fact that they grow alongside "the viewer" what makes em great. Buffy is about the transition from adolescence to adulthood, Angel is about adulthood and finding where you belong in the world. So obviously, the complexity has to evolve. Besides, adding some lovecraftian notes to stuff is always kino

I never watched Buffy. A friend of mine was really into Angel and did that thing where, instead of gauging my interest, he just dropped off his Angel box set and made me promise to watch it. That's a big ask to just make of someone. It's hours and hours and hours of my life just gone.

Anyway, true to my word I watched Angel start to finish. It was mostly an exercise in frustration. I really, really didn't like it. I finished S1 and was angry at my friend for making me watch this thing. I hated S2. S3 got a little better, but it was still not my thing. Then S4 happened and I couldn't believe what was happening: I was enjoying the show. A lot. I started looking forward to the next episode. I binged S4.
>Hey, alright. This thing started slow, but it's really found its stride. That wasn't "good for Angel." That was legit good. Can't wait for S5!
Then I watched S5 and it went right back to shit.

This all happened in a vacuum. I don't follow the show or fandom or universe and had absolutely no idea how anyone other than my friend felt about it, and he liked the whole thing. I'm having a good laugh seeing that I apparently have the polar opposite opinion from Sup Forums.

Cheers m8. Have a good one.

You have to have a high IQ

Not him, but your experience was so botched that there's no point in mentioning it. Nearly every person that discusses angel has watched and at least somewhat liked buffy. It sounds like you have a problem with the buffyverse in general, but most people that don't like buffy will never get to Angel, since you're supposed to start it after watching 3 seasons of buffy. The reason you like the shittiest part of the arc is probably because you don't like this type of show and that season slightly departs from its normal state of being, which is what fans hate but you like because it speaks to your taste more than the typical state of the show. But then reverts back to this typical state (s05), to something you normally don't like.

My point is that your opinion is very different because you're not the type of person that likes this sort of show, it was an accident (and imo a horrible way to introduce yourself to this universe, this kind of forced viewing always biases someone in a certain way) that you saw it to begin with. So your opinion doesn't have the same weight or value in this discussion regarding what the show gets right and what it doesn't because you're not familiar enough with the universe to properly discuss it. Keep in mind that Angel is a spin-off. This is your friend's fault mind you, I'm not putting it on you.

>you're not the type of person that likes this sort of show
Not him but could you please tell me how to appreciate this show? Like in my mind, what should I be thinking of when I watch each scene, how do I look beyond the most basic surfaces of this critically acclaimed show? Should I identify with any of the characters or remain aloof? Should I be constantly theorizing possible outcomes/events even in monster of the week episodes or should I watch it while I'm sleep deprived?

How the fuck should I know? Liking/appreciating a show comes naturally. If you watch a few buffy episodes/seasons and don't like it, you're not gonna like Angel either. That's about it. The analysis comes after you get engrossed.

For three straight seasons in Buffy we had Angel as a brooding, perpetually serious love interest and Cordelia as a total bitch. A huge amount of the first season of Angel is turning those characterizations on their head.

Lmao, look dude, you don't have to study a different show to be qualified to decide whether you like a show or not. If Angel can't stand on its own merits outside its connection to Buffy, then maybe it isn't a very good show. I'm sure Buffy fans will like it more than non-Buffy fans, but that doesn't prove it's a good show.

And I never made any claims about the "weight" of my opinions. I watched the show and I stumbled on this thread. You and I are on the same level playing field, because the thread is "is this show good?" not "trivia about a television universe only scholars understand." Anybody who has watched the show can chime in about how they liked it.

He's making fun of your pompous condescension, you twat.

see Lorn mentioned, remember how much I enjoyed him, then my brain has to go and remember the actor who played him died years ago. fuck

Great show, great actors, great final seasons. Wesley's transformation is one of TV's greatest.

;_;
It hurts because he was such a good guy, everybody who worked with him loved him. Amy Acker still cant talk about him during interviews and at conventions and things like that without getting choked up to this day.

>Gets a dodgy tooth cavity
>Dies of a heart attack years later because of it
Honestly, it's pretty fucked up.

Remember to brush your teeth, user.

>I'm sure Buffy fans will like it more than non-Buffy fans, but that doesn't prove it's a good show.

That's the thing though, you can't compare shows with each other without taking into account the viewer's taste. There's simply too many variables. Some shows might rely on putting characters through many obstacles and showing what they do, others might rely on changing a character's personality over time due to their experiences. None of these two is better than the other, yet some people will like one more than the other.

You're right about everyone being able to say they liked a show or not, I simply explained why it's not surprising given your unusual viewing experience (what your friend made you do is not normal) that your opinion is so different from the typical fan's.

The reason I mentioned the "weight" of opinion thing is because there's a lot of discussion regarding what Buffy or Angel did right or wrong ITT, but all of this discussion is happening within the context of these two shows ONLY. So my point is that there would be a problem if you criticise design aspects of the show because you're doing it from the perspective of an outsider. You can say you liked or disliked it, but if you say something SHOULD be like this, then your opinion has no relevance because you're not taking into account the context or universe within which the show was created (Buffy is integral to Angel).


I know, the reason I didn't acknowledge it and responded normally this way was to make him (you) understand that I wasn't being pompous at all, nor did I mean to. Some people just don't like certain types of shows. Some of my friends would never like watching Buffy (or Angel by extension), because they're simply not interested in it. Nothing I can say about the things I believe the show does well that will make them like the setting or dialogue or shitty costumes or the atmosphere and whatever else. That's not being pompous, that's a fact.

>I have a couple cavities right now
>Reading this just made me paranoid as fuck

FUCK

>You can't compare shows with each other workout taking into account viewers' taste
Pack it in, folks. user just debunked all of television and cinema criticism. It's impossible to talk about whether a show is good or not.

And I never anywhere in my post compared Angel to another show. I said Angel sucked, based purely on having watched it.

>I apparently have the polar opposite opinion from Sup Forums.
not to hassle you too much after you just got sperged on, but you are very much in the minority. the minority called "people in the world who have abhorrently shit opinions and have also seen Angel"

Dude, chill the fuck out. Not him but basically "Angel sucks" is like... ur opinion man...
Just because something is "good" doesnt mean everyone in the world is automatically going to like it. There's always someone who's not gonna like it, either because they're plebs or because they simply have different tastes.
If you don't like the themes and worlds Buffy or Angel propose, then that's your deal. Thanks for sharing. Now move on. The rest of us, as a majority, pretty much agree on liking it. Do I care about your opinion? Of course I don't. But you're entitled to it. I'm not everyone though, so the more you shit on something people like, the more likely you're going to piss someone off.

My post was honest
Please tell me how to truly appreciate this critically acclaimed show

Have fun with it. Everything can be enjoyed if you find it fun.

>Goodnight Folks

>It's impossible to talk about whether a show is good or not.

Saying something is good or bad =/= "I liked/hated x". It's possible to say if an approach is better or worse as long as you know what the objective of a show or its plot is. But you haven't said anything of the sort beyond the fact that you thought the show is shit. Ok I guess? Anyone can say that. It's simply not for you, and that's that. But people discuss the actual show and its characters and what they liked or disliked relative to its parent show because they're inseparable, and most importantly WHY they like one or another, citing specific arcs or methods of character development in the show. You can't launch such criticism anyway because you don't have a reference point or context that Buffy is there to serve as. So bottom line is, your opinion is worthless in this discussion.

>Nearly every person that discusses angel has watched and at least somewhat liked buffy.
Not me. I watched a handful of Buffy episodes here and there when I was young and never could get into it, but then when Angel came out I started watching it for some reason and really dug it. Granted this was back in the day before DVRs and things like that so I missed a bunch of episodes all the time, but I still loved it.

Then when I tried rewatching both of them years later I found I loved Angel even more and still couldn't get into Buffy.

I fucking love this show. Starts off slow and there's a lot of meh episodes but my god, some moments are absolutely amazing.

> Wesley singing the lullaby to connor when Lorne walks in
> the whole puppet episode

How embarrassing

Fuck. RIP Andy. He was only 33.

The joy of the puppet episode is kind of ruined for me when I remember what episode comes next.

Yeah but the scene that shocked me and gave me chills was when Angel nearly smothered Wesley to death after he failed to get Connor back

Season 3 was pure kino, I'm almost tempted to watch Angel again even though it's only been about 4 or 5 months since my last rewatch.

Before I look it up, are you talking about A Hole in the World? Looking it up now.

You realize the OP asked for opinions, right? And some guy told me I wasn't allowed to have an opinion because my boner for Whedon's magnum opus isn't as big as his. Wew.

I can persevere with a 600 page tomb like moby dick for weeks even if I don't understand any of the references to the kjv, pantheism and shakespeare and whatever else, I can read blood meridian for days even if I don't get any of the references to nietzchean symbolism, masonic symbolism, kjv and gnosticism. I've genuinely watched half of everything thats aired on major networks and cable in the last 25 or so years. The shows I've found myself not enjoying have mainly been dc/marvel and orange is the new black. I enjoyed Supernatural, I didn't mind the campyness in farscape and lexx. I enjoyed the dialogue in season 1 of buffy, the characters were alright although I got fed up with it halfway during S2. I enjoyed supernatural, I just don't understand what it takes to enjoy Angel, what should I be thinking of when I watch it? I just want to watch it for Amy Acker, the one episode of Summer Glau and Alexa Davalos. Its a critically acclaimed show, so it should be good right?

So what do I need to be thinking about while I watch each episode?

Fuck, yeah that's what it was. Why did season 5 have to be so fucking depressing? It was a rare situation where I fully emapathized with Wesley and Gunn. Gunn didn't want to stop being special and did something he didn't think would hurt anyone, and Wesley....fuck.

The fact that that was the last we ever see of Lorne, and that it was the last line he ever spoke makes it hurt even more. Seeing qt showgirl Fred is the only thing that's keeping me from becoming horribly depressed about it all.

Actually, OP asked "how to enjoy" this
Someone who can answer that question, is by definition capable of enjoying it.
You ask me, you're entitled to your opinion, though it is a bit out of place ITT, and it got someone triggered enough to confront you. Mistakes were made on both sides

Nothing, if you have to constantly think a certain way to enjoy something, you're not enjoying it. user, the show just isn't for you. There are ineffable reasons why we just don't like some things, and why we can sometimes like things that are objectively bad.

If you want to watch the thing for Amy, I don't understand what other reason could you possibly be asking for. All you need is right there at the end of S2
Now, why do I like it?
I dunno, mang...
muh Amy
muh vampires
muh noir feels
muh heroes fighting evil I dunno...
Like pple say, enjoyment comes naturally or it doesn't. It's not some complex mathematical operation you can control, you just relax and let it flow.

Not him, I'm the guy you made fun of before, I'm responding here because you've given some info about what you watched.

>Its a critically acclaimed show, so it should be good right?
No? Is this the first time you see a critically acclaimed show that you don't like or something?

You should be the one to say why you don't like Buffy or Angel. I find it weird because you say you liked Supernatural (although not especially much judging from your tone). These shows have a lot in common, so it's great that you mentioned supernatural so it can be used as a reference point. What different parts didn't you like about Buffy/Angel? They both have a similar MOTW setup (e.g. some filler, some purely comedic episodes) and the whole "preventing an apocalypse and saving the world every other day" plot. They both have a similar supernatural detective setting. So why did Buffy/Angel tire you but Supernatural didn't? Give an example or something.

I can watch Homicide life on the street and thoroughly enjoy it even though it aired over 25 years ago
I can watch supernatural and enjoy it
I can even enjoy parts of voyager due to the ensemble
I loved firefly
I enjoyed dollhouse, especially amys character
I should be able to enjoy some of the best tv whedon has created

"You can't" is a valid answer to "how to enjoy" something.

>Green Amy
I dunno wether to feel sad, amazed by her qtness or just go full hhhhhhnnnnnggggggggggg
fugg

Gunn was a nigger who did nothing but harm during his existence and I'm not even being racist.

Gunn just wanted to do good man, and his character accurately reflected the black man's insecurity in existing only as a "street" guy or the "muscle" as he put it in a condescending way towards himself. His inner fight was between his morals, which he had mostly in check, and his insecurity, and he lost when the time came with the Fred arc. But you can't say that he did nothing but harm.

Some of the episodes in supernatural were great, it always felt like there was some danger involved especially in the earlier seasons compared to the characters just laughing it off with a quirky gimmick or moving onto the next laughable villain. Maybe its how real the world seems in supernatural compared to angel, not sure how to explain it well enough but the towns they visit have a human lifelike feel to them in comparison to angel or buffy where all the characters seem as if they're just acting out a play. I know this sounds silly because both shows are filled with tropes and supernatural has its share of shit villains but it just feels like their adventure is more real, there are consequences, they have some logical, reasonable backstory to whatever place or action they've arrived at, whereas in buffy it just seems as if all of a sudden someones going to shout cut and stream onto the set adjusting cardboard props or makeup. It just doesn't seem real, even though supernatural mostly doesn't seem real either. The characters and hunters in supernatural seemed more real, like they've been in life and death scenarios and will probably die a painful death but they're continuing on anyway. The characters in buffy just don't seem to care or at least they care more about not being loners/outcasts/embarassed in front of their peers, like when they cut to a library scene after they've almost been killed or whenever they'res a party at that warehouse and their priorities are all over the place it just seems so silly. Although that is what buffy does so well, combining vampire hunter with being a highschool student and coming of age which it does really well.

I've yet to see an episode better than say mystery spot or the s2 finale (memory is a little vague) in the first 2 seasons of buffy and through half of the episodes in s1 angel.
I doubt this has helped clarify anything

Well it looks like that time again, thxs OP

Yeah... I know I'm being mean... But I kinda hate him for other reasons
Mostly because he got Fred before Wesley, when Wesley was "the one" from the start. He was only there as a vehicle to make Wesley miserable. And laugh all you like but I can relate to Wesley more. I can also understand loving Fred like that, it's beyond waifuism, it's an ideal
>He was threatening your friends
>he was threatening YOU
Gunn loved her too, but not in the same way, he was the empty Chad (yo, look at dat sexy mamma!) that got the girl out of luck and no merit (Ballet episode - could've been Wesley kissing her for the spell) He wasn't even smart enough to hold a conversation with her.
He was just, the wrong guy.
Proof that Wesley was not a loser, and the right guy instead came when shit began to unravel and Amy chose him over Gunn even before the mind spell.
And eventually, when everything was back in it's rightful place, he took that away from them too. It's not fair.

Why don't you just stream it on Hulu user?

Just nice to have a copy my self as it always be avalable to me

That's a fair point. I have all 5 seasons on DVD. Back when I first started watching the show my mom would buy me each season after I'd finished the last. It was fun waiting for them to come in the mail and having marathons.

Now that I have a Chromecast I prefer to stream it if I can so I don't have to get up and change the discs.

>You need to come over from Buffy and think Angel is a cool guy in the first place
I never did. I watched Angel for Faith and Illyria. Spike, Wesley and Cordelia were nice surprises for me. Never cared much for Angel.

It doesn't sound silly, I completely get where you are coming from and I suspected that it's this "harmless" quippy way in which the characters laugh off their threats established in Buffy is what turns you off. It's what turns most people that don't like Buffy/Angel off, but it's an integral part of the show's setting and pacing of the episodes. The reason for this is that as other anons mentioned ITT the monsters weren't supposed to be real threats, they were supposed to represent mental threats, the obstacles and problems a teenager has when one grows up. The show had a near-singular focus on its characters rather than the supernatural lore. This changed somewhat over time, but it's still very prevalent in Buffy.

But you'd be wrong if you thought the threats in these shows never get real or serious. They laugh off the threats every week because there's many episodes which are used for filler or for playing around with the characters' personalities, but when the time comes they get real. There's a specific episode in Buffy season 5 (and others later on) that tackles with a beloved character's death in a very direct and brutal way that's not often found in TV shows. You might say you don't want to watch the whole show just to get to these bits and you'd be right, I'm just saying it's there, Whedon loves hitting you with harmless action and suddenly making it real.

Supernatural is made to feel more "real" on an episode-to-episode basis than Buffy but lacks these very emotional and sudden character deaths in Buffy/Angel. The dark parts of Angel are much darker than supernatural's imo. But the overall tone and setting of supernatural is more realistic, yes. So if that's what you like, I'm not sure you could get into Angel/Buffy, but I'd recommend the X-files.

Also, mystery spot is one of my favourites, but there are contenders in both Buffy and Angel, these one-off creative episodes in supernatural had to come from somewhere you know.

Guy who likes all three shows here but watched Supernatural first--what you're describing is essentially Eric Kripke's pitch on Supernatural.

see pic related