Defend this

Defend this.

Batman is insane.

I can't. That cross-over was garbage.

Yes, such terrible JRJR art.

Frank is in the right, why should I have to defend him?

This pretty much. And Batman knows he's insane which is why he's taking every precaution to stay as non-insane as possible, even if that precaution is insane itself.

This iteration of Batman doesn't want this iteration of Joker to stab him in the back while he's dealing with the blood soaked clearly unhinged sociopath he's about to fight because when someone covered in blood and wielding a gun is running around his first instinct is to beat the shit out of them and give them to Gordon.

Why does everyone always blame Batman for the Jokers crimes? Batman isn't the Jokers babysitter he isn't responsible for the Jokers actions. Batman role is catching criminals and handing them over to the police/ legal system.

Yeah I don't get why Rando cop number 26343329 doesn't shoot the joker? Would that make Batman mad?

Blame gotham's legal system, and maybe joker can be rehabilited

It's only natural to defend someone you love.

>Yeah I don't get why Rando cop number 26343329 doesn't shoot the joker? Would that make Batman mad?

Unbelievably so.

>Batman isn't the Jokers babysitter
He sure loves acting like one

>The Joker
>running away for fear of being shot
>not finding humor in Batman protecting him from Frank

Who wrote this shit?

Joker wasn't much of a serial killer yet. Until the lare 90s.

>Be random civilian with a CCW license
>During one of the Joker's scheme decide to just shoot him
>Get paraded around as a hero by the whole city
>One night wake up to see Batman looming over you, red faced and with tears running down your face
>"With Joker dead, I need a new pussy, and you're it boy..."

I remember this was an idea floating around one thread for a batman story where a cop does kill the Joker while he's tied up and defenceless after turned in by Batman. Kind of a reverse 'Sid the Squid' scenario.

Things start out great for him of course. He pleads self-defence on some story about Joker breaking free and his friends in the force back him up. He gets a bit of hero worship for putting the clown away for good. Gordon smells bullshit but can't really blame the guy.

Then shit goes bad. Batman's on his case as is Joker's gang and anybody who wanted to kill the Joker themselves. Top it all off the clown himself survives. etc.

>Top it all off the clown himself survives.

so basically don't kill the Joker because he'll just come back anyway

Batman is a massive pussy

Kinda missing the point there. It's still a cop taking the law into his own hands and killing a batman rogue, followed by all the stuff that happens after. Doesn't just disappear because the killed Joker was a dobbelganger or something.

Dixon is trash.

...this WAS Dixon, right?

>Do the right thing
>Entire world shits all over you
Why do people even bother being heroes in the DC verse? Being a villain is basically the safest, easiest job in the world since some hero would commit genocide just to make sure you don't get a booboo

Frank has had a really hard life. He's had to endure the kind of personal tragedy that means extreme coping mechanisms. That's why he feels justified in his war on organized crime.

Batman shouldn't have been worried about Joker to begin with, it's not like he can die with the thick ass plot armor he has. The most recent issue is a shining example.

>Why do people even bother being heroes in the DC verse? Being a villain is basically the safest, easiest job in the world since some hero would commit genocide just to make sure you don't get a booboo

This should be the canon explanation behind why Earth 3 is the way it is.

Unless you're in the Man of Murderverse or Byrne has creative control.

Childhood is when you admire Batman, adulthood is when Frank makes more Franks.

Simple. Batman doesn't kill. He hates guns and he doesn't kill. That's his thing. He's wanted to, he may have tried to (during Hush), but he won't kill Joker and he will protect him if he needs to.

Writers always want to complicate it but a simple childhood trauma turned into an iron clad vow to never take another person's life or use guns should be the most of it. Doesn't everyone have things they will absolutely not do despite logic and pressure to do so?

Seriously though, how would Batman react to some random civilian with a concealed carry license just shooting down the Joker in a clear black and white defensive situation?

Batman stops serial killers for murdering people, that's kind of his thing

I think he understands the law well enough to be able to tell that it was self-defense and he'd be fine with it.

He'd go after that person and bring them in. Nothing more. But knowing comics things would turn to shit and Joker would end up with god powers or something.

It's already been pointed out multiple times by multiple writers that Batman is a god of sorts, a necessity for the universe. Joker has been hinted at being the same but as a force of chaos and evil. Snyder has hinted at it a few times, tying into why Batman doesn't kill Joker because someone worse would come and take his place.

Joker "dies" and then you get Bloom almost destroying the city.

I need more Joker being scared moments

/thread

in Batman's opinion, the greatest danger in Gotham is a punk with a gun. and Frank fits that description

On top of that, he's always seemed a firm believer in rehabilitation and opposed to the death penalty. A criminal is either ready to mend their ways or be locked away until then. An insane criminal needs to be committed for treatment.

It's not Batman's fault that the systems for those criminals are shitty with corrupt guards and doctors more interested in making a name for themselves than keeping their charges under control.

Batman understands there is a line. If he crosses it he knows he won't be able to stop and just keep killing criminals more and more until the amount of killing of criminals reaches absurd and unacceptable heights. Here he is looking out for Frank trying to protect Frank from crossing that line and also reaching that fate.

Defend this.

Batman is projecting harder than an IMAX theater.

Sonic gauntlets or fire bombs are so easy to write in as Batprep. But no, just punch him.

Pft, Frank crossed multiple fucking international borders worth of lines by that point.

If Frank still had a gun to Joker's head and Batman tried to push that noise on Frank, Frank'd just pop Joker and tell Batman to go ahead and take him in to save him the trouble of looking for more criminals to murder. Frank is far more stubborn than Bruce in that sense.

yeah remember Chris Dorner?
Cops 100% killed him deliberately and it wasn't even a question that it would happen. Hell I'm partial to ACAB thought and even I can't muster a meaningful feeling of outrage, considering Dorner fucking murdered the families of cops as well.
The Joker is magnitudes worse, if we go by what he's done in the comics. It is an incredible suspension of disbelief that joker hasn't been killed a million times over.

You mean "writers are terrified of actually writing a conclusion so they make up dumb shit about characters being immortal gods or whatever"

Someone make an edit of this where Frank is aggressively undoing his pants.

>If a cop shoots a guy coming at him with a knife he's crossed a line and will now murder everyone he sees
>If some old lady confronts a home invader with a shotgun and shoots him down when he tries to lunge at her she's crossed a line and will become a one woman genocide machine who kills millions
That's some pretty retarded logic

IIRC there've actually been several issues where cops or other random citizens try to kill the Joker. In every one of them I can remember, Batman intervenes and stops them.

Then the next issue Joker blows up an orphanage or steps on a puppy or some shit.

Batman isn't an idiot. He understands the world he lives in. Joker is a fiend and a menace and it's all Bruce can do to be one step behind him most times. But he understands the world around him. Look at the DC universe. Things die. But they don't stay dead. They come back stronger. And with Batman can't risk that. So he locks him in Blackgate and hopes beyond hell it works because the alternative is losing even more.

That's the only remotely consistent line of thinking I can muster at lease.

You're talking about the average citizen. Obivously they'd be singing praises to the cop for killing the maniac. That's not what I typed:
>Batman's on his case as is Joker's gang and anybody who wanted to kill the Joker themselves.

Both instances you mention are accepted as last resorts, where there's no other option. Even in those situations, it can mess somebody up to take a life. If it weren't then yeah, it means they're going to more readily kill.

Batman is mentally unsound, and might actually go off the deep end if he killed.

There's plenty of people who have come out of shooting situations relatively unaffected outside of the initial stress and adrenaline, saying they're going to go out and kill hundreds of people is ridiculous.

Also
>What are soldiers?

/r/ Middy kicking the asshole's head off.

He's beating up a shitty Spider-Man villain.

He's killed Darkseid and beat up Superman on multiple occasions, I'm pretty sure he can take meme-Venom.

>>What are soldiers?
Suffering PTSD

you think he can take on Carnage with just his fists?

Yeah, literally every single, or even the majority, of guys who served in Iraq came back as completely broken messes who decide to become fuhrer kings of America and go on a rampage that slaughters hundreds.

Nigga, if this "line" bullshit was real than humanity would have been completely wiped out centuries ago.

Sure, it's Batman. He learnt a martial art for punching symbiote wearing assholes in the face during his training.

He SHOT Darkseid.

>Simple. Batman doesn't kill. He hates guns and he doesn't kill. That's his thing. He's wanted to, he may have tried to (during Hush), but he won't kill Joker and he will protect him if he needs to.
>Writers always want to complicate it but a simple childhood trauma turned into an iron clad vow to never take another person's life or use guns should be the most of it. Doesn't everyone have things they will absolutely not do despite logic and pressure to do so?
yeah it's kinda telling that one of the only times Bruce has broken either of those vows in the modern era was against Darkseid

with a god bullet, this is just regular fists, carnage is 10x stronger than venom and venom beat up Superman

Batman openly targeting the police is the best way for him to get any sort of special status he enjoys revoked. And why the fuck would Joker's gang care about retribution if he's dead? It's all about seizing control of what remains of the organization at that point! Besides, even idiots dumb enough to follow a murdering psychopath know that targeting cops is a real good way to get destroyed by the only legal gang in America.

meant to quote

>What is PTSD?

Something that only effects 11-20% of soldiers, can be fixed with therapy, and often doesn't lead to people running around in Bat costumes murdered everyone with an unpaid parking ticket.

To some degree, yeah. Nobody likes killing and if they do, that's all kinds of messed up.

besides, you're getting too into this whole "one kill = SLAUGHTER THOUSANDS!" thing you dreamt up. It's a very simple matter of once you make an exception, you're going to keep making it. The old lady isn't going to start actively murdering people but she's going to be less hesitant to shoot up an intruder.

Batman can't kill for that reason. It wouldn't stop with the Joker and Gordon could never trust him again because of that.

jesus christ i hate batman so much!

There was a great series of issues in Injustice where it explores an alternate version of events where Batman kills the Joker. He surrenders himself, serves time in prison, is released, never kills again, and ends up banging Wonder Woman.

That was a good timeline.

Xenos don't count

>Batman openly targeting the police is the best way for him to get any sort of special status he enjoys revoked.
You forget how Batman handles the 'innocent' types. No assault, no proof that he was there. Just some questions and a reminder that he's watching them.

And why the fuck would Joker's gang care about retribution if he's dead?
Harley. Need I say more?

Going from
>I have to kill this borderline genocidal maniac because if I don't he'll kill tens of thousands more like he's already done hundreds of times in the past
to
>I have to kill this guy who's driving with an expired license because if I don't he might get a ticket
Is a pretty fucking massive leap, if Batman was that mentally unstable he already would have killed half of Gotham.

Any timeline where Batman bangs Wonder Woman is a good timeline.

See, you don't even get the concept. It's a rule that can't just be broken "just this once" because one guy is bad enough. Batman's trusted to take criminals to justice, not administer it himself.

Maybe he should just do what he did in Mark of the Bat?

In the 1980s, Frank Miller was having a mid-life crisis because of Batman. He realized that he had gotten older than Bruce Wayne was meant to be. So he writes a story where Batman is a worn down extra cynical old ass man

And he pushes the envelope as far as he could. He took this character that he loved in his childhood and made him into Judge Dredd, only without the irony and with a no-kill rule, because if you have him kill people, he's not the same character anymore. People loved it. Between that and other popular grim and gritty comics at the time like Punisher and Wolverine, along with some of the more mature elements seen in stories by Alan Moore and his fellow English invaders... and started applying it to Batman.

But underneath all that greasy modern crime drama grit, Batman is still a guy who is meant to be marketed towards 8-12 year olds. That metamorphosis happened extremely early in the character's career. So there are certain lines they weren't willing to cross. And because they couldn't cross that line, some writers felt they needed to codify the logic Batman uses. Instead of Batman not killing people because that's just now how things play out, Batman is REFUSING to kill, on the same moral high ground you'd expect from a silver age comic.

Which is fine, at first, but they don't show the same kind of restraint with any of his villains. Because they don't have to. No one cares if bad guys do bad things, right? Even if they're bad guys who might be printed on kids underoos. So they get worse and worse. Joker gets a body count in the triple digits. Batman goes from fighting colorful weirdos to a literal serial killer, like Zsasz. He gets put in situations time and time again where a rational person would kill. He ends up looking crazy.

All because Frank Miller was feeling old, so he took a childhood favorite and decided to make him cool and edgy

You just don't kill other hero's villains ,man . it's like an unwritten rule or something.

Considering how absolutely fucking abysmal the justice system in Gotham is that might not be such a bad thing

It is a wonder why Batman didn't try to improve it with all that Wayne money.

What about the one where Batman literally cucks himself while banging Wonder Woman?

I will defend Batman saving the Joker, but I will not defend Batman letting the Joker run away, that's what truly pisses me off.

That's what Warren Ellis was talking about in that issue of Planetary, before he slipped into a commerical for Transmetropolitan.

Frank's goal is Joker, not Batman. If Joker was knocked out or restrained on the scene, Frank would try to shoot him during the fight and ultimately win. So Batman makes a compromise to get the target off the scene.

because then batman would remain unemployed and trust me you dont want that.

No really, why not just let Frank kill the Joker
>M-muh no kill rule
Exactly, Batman isn't killing the Joker, someone else is, Batman is just kinda not doing anything to stop it, and legally speaking you have absolutely no obligation to stop a murder if you're an un-involved party, only to report it.

It did produce the stupidest panel I had ever read until that one in Thor you know the one

>that filename
mein nigga

You would have the other two jokers looking for revenge

Nigga don't know about original joker

I hate it when I get back to my Homebox and there's a nastygram in there.

Joker is not insane though, he's super-sane

He understands the choices he makes 200%

He wouldn't do anything. He might feel bummed out, but it would be because he was the batsman who views Joker as his dark reflection, and that if could cure the Joker's mine it would mean he could fix his own.

Why was Wonder Woman offered up as a prize for him serving time?

Why do the Injustice writers hate Wonder Woman?

original joker, insane joker, and super sane joker are three different people

Serious question. Why don't Gotham citizens all take full advantage of their 2nd Amendment rights? Seems like the smart thing to do.

because if batman sees anyone with a gun he beats them up.

having a gun is just asking to get shot by two people with guns
its gotham. if you want to make it home alive you place your wallet on the ground, bend over, and think of england

so what happens next?
what issue is this?

This

Why would anyone defend Batwank?

i imagine something like

>he's always seemed a firm believer in rehabilitation and opposed to the death penalty.
This

The trick is to get to the magic cookie first