Is the Question the original Whor...

Is the Question the original Whor? Did the Question get as much hate as Whor since the original Question was killed and replaced with the new Question?

Other urls found in this thread:

cbr.com/marvel-legacy-characters-generations/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Wait, where'd Renee Montoya go?

One company spent years setting it up. The other literally did it in a month.

See the difference? Marvel can't into organic legacy heroes.

Nobody really gives a shit about the Question. I guarantee you most that even say they do think he is a conspiracy theory nut.

Except Marvel is the only one with legacy heroes. DC is still running literally all the original crew except Flash if you count Barry as being a 'new' character.

Pretty sure the catoon gave him a lot of fans at least.

>he thinks no one cares about Question
>the current state of Sup Forums

He is the one character the entire board loves. Go away newfag.

Mate it would take me all god damn night to list off all of DCs legacy characters. Just admit you don't read comics and go back to Sup Forums.

>One company spent years setting it up. The other literally did it in a month.
This. Renee was his apprentice for a long time, and he wasn't just 'killed off' he died of cancer after, unfortunately, years of being irrelevant.

Thor was on his second movie, I think, when they decided he was Unworthy (and Captain Nazi was) and that a woman should take his place and this should be used to prove how horrible men are.

Renee was a fucking lesbian and still didn't run around yelling 'Grrl power!' and only beating up men.

Fuck no. I loved the new Question.

It's all about context and writing. 52 was a great series and the Question subplot with the investigating and mentoring was very well done. They took their time with the transition and it felt like a natural development for the character after all the shit she had been through in GCPD.

It was a well written 'passing of the torch' kind of story.

Whor was the complete opposite. It was obnoxious and came out of fucking nowhere and it reeked of desperation and everyone fucking knew it was going to be about as permanent as Thor being a frog or Thor being dead or Loki being a kid or Loki being a woman or...

The Question was a story, Whor was a marketing stunt. If Marvel had written Renee one of the first issues would be her beating up Batman and saying 'yeah you just got schooled by a FIESTY LESBIAN LATINA' and the media would be all over that shit

go ahead, list all of the ones they don't care to ues

Friendly reminder Renee was originally straight and Rucka retconned the lesbianism in.

You're trying too hard to fit in. Nobody on Sup Forums knows jack about him. You, yourself probably never read a single thing with him going by your post.

No one is this retarded. Read some comics dude. DC has at least 3 team up books with the legacy characters right now and most of them have their own solo like Nightwing and Blue Beetle.

Green Lantern, Manhunter, Starman, Atom, Black Canary, Robin, Green Arrow.

Here's even a fucking article about how Marvel doesn't embrace legacy characters to the extent DC does.
cbr.com/marvel-legacy-characters-generations/

>I guarantee you most that even say they do think he is a conspiracy theory nut
This Question is so fucking overrated. Give me the zen investigator who gets his shit kicked in all the time any day.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself kiddo. You must be a Europoor or something who is only on here at retarded hours. Sup Forums has storytimed ONeil's run at least half a dozen times.

Just because the almost bimonthly storytime of the O'Neil run doesn't happen any more doesn't mean it didnt happen for a long time. Changing winds etc etc

How many years has it been since it stopped now?

It was storytimed at least twice last year

Jaime Reyes, Wally West, Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damian Wayne, Connor Hawke, Crispus Allen, Renee Montoya, Kate Kane, Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Cassie Sandsmark, Bart Allen, Tanya Spears, Kyle Rayner, Simon Baz, Jessica Cruz...

Against Riri Willians and Miles Morales.

Because Fifty-Two is all about shallow pandering.
It is a microcosm of everything wrong with mid-2000s capes:
>old characters revamped into "progressive" characters - Batwoman
>White guy killed off to be replaced with minority legacy - Renee
>old "silly" villain is revealed to be a total badass - Mr. Mind
>forgotten 90s characters dug out of limbo just to get killed so that readers know that things are "serious" - Waverider and the Linear Men
>bloat of derivative characters - Sobek, Osiris, Isis
>useless continuity porn - Return of The Multiverse
>creating another cosmological aspect that then moulders in the closet - also The Multiverse

Who did it pander to? You can't pander with characters that have been around longer than most people have been alive.

This idea that characters that have been around this long suddenly "aren't for" certain groups now is fucking laughable. You sound insanely stupid.

>Nobody on Sup Forums knows jack about him.

of course they don't, faggot, he's called The Question. if everyone on Sup Forums knew about him, he would be called The Answer.

geez, you want to complain about no one knowing about a guy who works in the shadows and hides his face, following trails that no one else knows about, you're a fucking retard. I swear, newfags like you need to go and stay go.

Fucking retard that never heard of a superhero who actually covers his tracks and works out of the limelight. God damn it.

>i am a huge fan
>i've read one whole run
wew

>of course they don't, faggot, he's called The Question. if everyone on Sup Forums knew about him, he would be called The Answer.

I meant the bimonthly guy.

To expand a bit more on the difference, Renee montoya was a star of the ensemble book, Gotham Central, for 4 years, before the new 52.

A better comparison might be Rhodes as Iron man.

>Who did it pander to?
Gee, I don't know, user. It's not like Batwoman was mentioned on the national news and DC put out a statement about LGBT garbage. Truly a mystery.

>It's not like Batwoman was mentioned on the national news
So then what is it like?

Yeah man and Robin was made to "pander" to kids. Wonder Woman was also made to "pander" to women.

I really hope you aren't American cause you clearly don't know the difference between marketing and pandering. Learn to capitalism.

Yes, Renee Montoya was Whor 1.0 but not quite.

Renee was Rucka's lesbian waifu and star of her own batman spin-off (Gotham Central) which sold for shit and only survived because critics who hate super-heroes kept sucking it off for being a non-cape DC book in the main line.

Finally, DC decided to kill the book, but Rucka refused to let his dyke-fu be sent off into the sunset.

So he decided to hitch a ride on the then going on purge of C-List characters who were the replaced with minority rip-offs and murdered Vic Sage (who at the time, thanks to JLU, was seeing an upswing in popularity and mainstream circulation) so he could steal the Question ID to force DC to give Renee a new book, which would hijack Vic's newfound popularity with casuals.

(Rucka defenders argue, I should note, that Rucka DID get cold feet when he found editorial basically had ZERO intention of doing what Rucka wanted, IE a Renee Question ongoing; but Grant fucking Morrison called Rucka a pussy for backing out on fridging Vic and Rucka went through with it and killed Vic off in 52)

Everyone fucking HATED Renee as Question and even DC seemed to realize they fucked up. Renee/Question was quietly exiled from continuity for a while and only got two mini-series (of which only ONE bore the Question name, the other was Final Crisis something-something).

Rucka eventually petitioned to get Renee a back-up in Detective Comics when Batwoman took over the book (Batwoman was also a casuality of Rucka's bullshit with killing Vic off since he was planning to have Renee and Batwoman become lovers as her ongoing got spiked and she ended up headlining Detective Comics about two years after her debut).

SJW shits sucked up to Rucka and praised the back-ups (and the Annual with Dickbats teaming up with Renee) but fans generally shitted on it. Even others at DC shitted on it too; the guy who drew Final Crisis flat out REFUSED to draw Renee as Question unless necessary for the plot (meaning one scene).

>all the shit she had been through in GCPD.
Agree completely with this statement. Having all that great character development in GCPD and the mentoring in 52 felt organic for Renee

The only reason DC didn't fucking fix shit, like say in Blackest Night, is DC was too fucking chickenshit to tell Rucka to fuck off and bring Vic back/kill Renee to free up the Question mantle so Vic could resume the role.

It's why they ultimately decided to fucking remove Renee as Question as soon as New 52 started and re-edited Batwoman's first trade when they tried to sneak references to Renee as Question in it.

>It is a microcosm of everything wrong with mid-2000s capes:

Being an enjoyable comic with several small plots from minor characters and giving the spotlight to the universe at large instead the big 3?

You are literally hating on a comic that had Mister Mind as the big bad and Booster Gold as the protagonist.

52 started out interesting but the ending is horrible and disastrous in that nearly all of the characters got bad endings save for Animal Man and Steel, the later of whom was explicitly written out of character in the first half.

As much shit as Countdown got, at least it fucking ended happily ever after and only three deaths (two of which were rekills and the other a character who had already been long replaced).

Nope.

Renee is more like Carol Danvers; the more they pushed her over the will of fans, the more people hated her and more her book tanked in sales, even after making her Captain fucking Marvel.

Gotham Central is a classic, you're fucking delusional, dude.

Batwoman was hyped as hell, but then basically shelved for like two years until after Final Crisis, when they put her in Detective Comics for a brief run.

Gotham Central was shit.

No one liked it or bought it, it survived largely as a vanity project to get Rucka to write Wonder Woman and other cape books for DC and finally had to be put down when it became apparent that no one gave a shit about it and they could no longer justify publishing a book that was Batman related, but sold the worse out of of ALL of the Batman spin-offs at the time.

Fuck, even Fox knew Gotham Central sucked. Hence why they retooled Gotham from being a white straight male version of Gotham to being a villain centric update of Batman '66

No, because Montoya was a badass in her own right before she bacame the question, and also her stories weren't filled with ham fisted "this is what a feminist looks like" bullshit

Kong Kenan. Don't forget him.

>Loki being a kid
I really miss Kid Loki

He deserved it
The entire JSA is dead or out of continuity right now in favor of the legacy heroes

No, because Vic got a great sendoff that set up Renee to take on the mantle.

My friends won't play that game with me anymore because my first question is always 'Do they look like a bitch?' and they don't know how to answer.

The only person upset about it was the guy who keeps doing the stupid fake """"insider"""" shit on Sup Forums

And sure enough he's in this thread:

No.

Renee Montoya came out of a great mini (52), and she was trained by the original.

Her character development was years in the making and her actual training by the original and his own mentor was displayed in-story for a whole year of our time. She had to work hard physically and learn to be mentally strong enough to get over her own issues before becoming The Question. Everyone saw potential in her, but her story went from it being squandered to fulfilled.

The replacement was handled well then.

Jane Foster refusing asgardian help, Thor's entire worth as a god being ruined by something whispered to him, Whor getting the hammer and being the bestest ever with it was crammed down our throats with very little internal logic. Everything in the universe arranged to point out her greatness, which was innate, and not earned.

The big difference between Montoya's Question and all those others, and the great reason she made a legacy is that Montoya had real fucking problems. Bitch drank like their was no tomorrow, was wracked from the inside out by guilt, and was engaged in some seriously self-destructive relationships, both personal and professional. Unlike She-Thor (calling her Whor just enables the people who say we don't like her because MISOGYNY), who's only two character qualities are I CAN USE THE HAMMER LITERALLY BETTER THAN LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE WHO EVER CAME BEFORE AND HAD A PENIS and I AM DYING OF CANCER LOOK HOW BRAVE I AM BLARGH.

I would read a dozen Montoya Question ongoings before picking up a single copy of Thor.

Also, she had real problems that went along pretty well with Vic's instead of just copying them. They were both people with complex, soul-crushing lives who often fell into violence as a way to simplify matters, putting themselves in harm's way and usually cocking things up even worse than they already were. It's no surprise that Vic saw himself in Renee a fair bit.

Probably because the question wasn't born into the role and Question wasn't literally his birth name that was then taken away from him.

I wonder if this is the same guy who derails any thread even tangentially related to Kate Kane by shitposting about how much he hates her. Do we have like a Lesbian Hating Autist on the loose? I know Korrasami broke Sup Forums but damn.

52 was a fantastic weekly so the transition to Renee was more well received. The ones that reacted negatively to it were the editors that were pissed off they killed him in the height of popularity (remember how he was in a lot of JLU episodes?).

>in that nearly all of the characters got bad endings save for Animal Man and Steel
Elongated man got the sweet release of death while fucking over the assholes conning him the entire run. He was even seen having ghost adventures with his wife.

Why'd he do that? Fetish?

To be honest, I'm the casual here. I really liked Question in JLU. How different was he?

Every version of the Question is hugely different from the last. Ditko Question was a more chill Mr. A. O'Neil Question was a Zen Private Eye neo-noir set in Detroit on Steroids, JLU Question is a whacked out conspiracy theorist who happens to be right.

Very much. Although Vic has always been an investigative journalist/reporter in all his incarnations, the whole Mulder-esque conspiracy theory buff is mostly JLU-exclusive. That's not to say he didn't investigate conspiracies; just that they didn't involve sinister aglets and the like.
However, Question in general and Denny O'Neil's 80s run in particular are still very much worth reading. That run, to me, is quite literally one of the best things DC has ever put out. It mixes hardboiled crime drama with kung fu action, gritty realism with zen philosophy, and it sports some of the most human, three-dimensional characters you'll ever read in comics. Great fucking stuff all around.

Huh, that's a shame. I loved how over the top, yet correct he was. Those types of characters are always cool.

That run sounds cool, but is it the one where the mantle gets passed? To be honest, I don't like reading stuff about gay shit, and I recall his replacement being very focused on liking girls.

Nope, Renee only happened years later.

The extreme autism over characters being "replaced" wasn't a thing until after the big nerd culture social justice/anti-social justice posturing wars started.

For a long time it was seen as a GOOD thing when you got a new character, especially if it was a HAWT CHICK. If you wanted to revamp an old character you had a new character take their name.

>For a long time it was seen as a GOOD thing when you got a new character, especially if it was a HAWT CHICK.
Speak for yourself. I always hated that shit.

Oh, cool. What issues should I start and end at?

Issue 1, 1987. Can't miss it. Then read them in order, then the Quarterly series, then the Question Returns special. There's also a handful of annuals that are very worth checking out.

You can't count the Green Lanterns because pretty much anyone can be a Lantern if they have a ring. If you were listing GLs you also forgot Hal and Stewart since Alan Scott was the original.

Jaime Reyes is like Ms Marvel in that he's basically an entirely different hero from his namesake with an entirely different powerset, and Ted was also a legacy himself, taking over from Garrett. Not to mention that Ted was already dead.

Wally West had years of experience under his belt as Kid Flash before he took the mantle of the Flash, and while he didn't exist alongside Barry during his time as Flash (mostly) Jay Garrick, the original Flash, was still operating at the same time West was.

Grayson is the only one of the four Robins to actually take up the Batman mantle, AFAIK, and he generally does his own thing as Nightwing. Same with Todd being Red Hood. Drake does his own thing as Red Robin....

I mean, are you even trying, user? You left out quite a few names on your list for Marvel, too. Kamala Khan, Danvers, Monica, Jane Foster, Kate (Hawkeye), Captain Falcon, X-23 as Wolverine....