A Rational Discussion of Western Animation

Recently there have been many threads popping up on Sup Forums that compare anime and western cartoons to each other. A lot of these threads tend to be very hyperbolic and devolve into cherrypicking, name calling, generalizations and other forms of shitposting. I want to make this thread a place to discuss the pros and cons of each medium without getting retarded about it.

For my opening statement I'd like to say that I consider myself a fan of both cartoons and anime. I'm currently studying animation and this topic is something I enjoy discussing. That being said I do find anime to be the ultimately superior side of the coin. This is not because 'it's japanese so it's better' but because I find that the attitudes and practices that encompass that side of the medium to be higher of quality. This is not to say that the west is inherently inferior, as a student I've seen loads of talent all around me that could be applied in much more ambitious ways than the industry has so far allowed.

I'd like to tackle art styles first. When it comes to character design, a strong silhouette is a very strong aspect of what makes a character shine. In my image I tried my best to compile a wide variety silhouettes from both anime and cartoons. As it's very obvious you can tell which silhouettes belong to which side.The anime characters tend to have more defined anatomy and grounded proportions where as the western characters are more geometric and based off simple shapes. There are exceptions to both however and I made sure to include those (Mineta, Brock Samson). Where I find anime leaps ahead here though is that even the simple characters are rich with subtle detail. Mineta may be made of very simple shapes but he's got subtleties and deviations from those shapes that add a bit more flair to the art style. As seen in his gloves and boots. I find the problem with western character design is the strict adherence to these simple shapes.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=_xUrbDu4rvE
youtube.com/watch?v=BZG4TmgtpsU
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

The real diference between western and eastern animation is the way that people react to them. And im not talking about niche groups that constatly watch either, but the general mass consensus on the media itself.
No matter how you look at it, western animation is seen only as a "childish" form of entertainment, while eastern or more specifically Anime is free from this mentaly and thus free to experiment diferent types of genres and storylines whitout the fear of the public regecting it out of only the fact that "it is for children".
While there are exceptions in both cases, they are in the minority and only seen as "experimental films" and not fit for the common public.

tl:dr fucking normies reeeeeeee

That is true, I do believe anime suffers from it's own social stigmas as being for 'manchildren' and creepy otaku and while I'm not exactly a fan of moe anime I do believe that unlike the stigma of 'it's for children', it isn't actively holding back the medium from doing anything interesting.

Cartoons are for kids but normies also think Anime is cartoon porn and for weirdos, so you aren't winning either way here.

what's the bottom right thing? Is think it's that pokemon expy, but I'm unsure.

Yokai Watch, Jibanyan

Jibanyan from Yokai Watch.

you didn't include anything from animated films, which seem to rake in much more money than tv animation. Also nothing from DC/Marvel cartoons, or any shows with clear backing from toy companies.

I've never played Yokai Watch, barely seen much of it outside of when it finally appeared over here in the states and I still was avle to recognize him via silouette

Now whos the bottom girl? I don think familiar with it at all.

Yeah but atleas i get official pron out of anime

Galko.

Galko Chan. It's a SoL anime about cute girls doing taboo things.

>it's another Eastern vs Western animation thread waiting to happen.

Maybe it won't be if you contribute something thoughtful :^)

bump

Oh right, I thought it was her for a second but wasnt sure, Ive havent watched it at all. only just seen fanart

i know this image is intentionally flawed in other ways but it always bugs me when people build pyramid diagrams upside down. How fundamentally visually illiterate does a person have to be to think that kind of diagram makes any sense at all?

Who is that thing under Steven?

Anime is better because there's more of it and it's better written.

Minoru Mineta from My Hero Academia.

>better written
Eh...

Obviously Super-Chicken!

When you find youself in danger,
When you're threatened by a stranger,
When it looks like you will take a lickin', (puk, puk, puk)
There is someone waiting,
Who will hurry up and rescue you,
Just Call for Super Chicken! (puk ack!)

Actually have no idea, but I feel like it SHOULD be Super Chicken, there's some passing resemblence

>because there's more of it
It's amazing what you can accomplish when you disregard humane working conditions.

The greater volume means there's a greater number of hits.

In my experience western cartoons have a greater variety of art styles, while anime has a greater variety of genres. Not sure if one is better because of that tho.

That also means the garbage anime will outnumber the good ones.

That's a very good observation. Sometimes it's very hard to tell most anime part since a lot of them are done by the same studio, or follow the same tropes/premise to the point you can't really tell them apart or that a lot of them look exactly the same at times. With US cartoons, that's barely the case since the styles and characters all look unique or vastly different most of the time. Despite the CalArts thing that gets thrown around, at least I can tell most of the shows airing in CN apart. Take for instance most of A1 Pictures' work and most of the anime have so many similar character designs that it is hard to tell from which anime they come from, sometimes. It's a pain in the ass, really. Still, there's is a lot of varying styles in anime as well, but they tend to favor genre or story over style compared to shows in the US or other places.

Unironically fpbp.

Anime seems to always be trying new things. The west is stuck in a slump not just in anime but in movies books music etc. Basically we're stuck trying to make thunder strike twice by rebooting and revisiting great works from the past (big nostalgia wave at the moment) but of course we fuck it up cause the people in charge don't get what made those things good. Basically we're stuck waiting for the next wave of good creative people to get their breaks. I haven't seen Steven Universe or Adventure Time but I don't think they are unique enough to truly go down as one of the greats (though I fear they will be huge influences on the generation that grew up with them).

Japan on the other hand feels like it always has fresh blood coming and going into its manga and anime and although they still collectively suck at writing good endings it still feels like they constantly make new things that don't suck as hard. Of course the politically charged culture of the west isn't helping things at all when it comes to exploring interesting themes in animation specially if it has to go up on an American TV network. and with Youtube not being much of an option anymore we're back to Newgrounds

>tfw the west, unlike the Japanese, love aliens and space exploration sci-fi but nobody makes cartoons dealing with these things anymore
I just want something else that's not Star Wars or Mass Effect already. There's so much potential in this setting. I guess Voltron is doing something with it but maaan...

>he says the day Valerian comes out in theaters

shame about the leads being manlets but hey, it's big budget sci fi. and cyberpunk 2077 is still in the works (yes poland is west enough). but yeah not many cartoons about it

I'm actually planning on watching Valerian with my friends this Saturday but it's still not- well, at least I don't THINK it will become a big franchise you can really invest yourself in. As for Cyberpunk 2077, i'm excited for that but we'll have to wait another 10 years my friend, that and no aliens.

Basically i'm a baby and upset that neither anime or cartoons cater to my desire for aliens and the escapism of space exploration.

I wish I knew more about how anime is actually produced. Despite the fact that it's actually fairly exposed in mainstream American media, it's just this constant thing almost nobody actually thinks the logistics of or needs any sources on or any production stories or anything.

Japan remakes a lot of the same concepts over and over too. Two similar anime are a lot more similar than two similar cartoons.

>(big nostalgia wave at the moment)
As a film student, I can safely say that a lot of that is because of China--a lot of stuff nobody notices is because of China. China wants American media, and it impacts the movies we put out way more than anyone imagines.

Notice how there are next to no Westerns right now? It's because China prefers sleek action like Spiderman and Ghost in the Shell instead of "dusty" shit, for no apparent reason.

>Japan remakes a lot of the same concepts over and over too. Two similar anime are a lot more similar than two similar cartoons.

Yeah but that's because the industry in japan is just so much bigger than in the west. There are more new anime shows coming out each season than there are new cartoon shows in like 5 years. Obviously there is more repetition as a result, but also more experimentation. More shit, but also more quality.

>Notice how there are next to no Westerns right now? It's because China prefers sleek action like Spiderman and Ghost in the Shell instead of "dusty" shit, for no apparent reason.

"Right now"? The Western has died decades before China even became a market for Hollywood.

Anime is drawn in 3D, western in 2D.

...

>Japan remakes a lot of the same concepts over and over too. Two similar anime are a lot more similar than two similar cartoons.
For as few cartoons there are they seriously retread the same ground over and over.

Since this is an Eastern-Western animation thread that isn't just an excuse for Sup Forumsnons and Sup Forumsfags to shit on themselves, here's an image that I think is relevant to the thread.
I took the liberty of editing a shitty meme so that it wasn't one-sided but instead a demonstration of how both industries have taken a lot of influence from each other's cultures.

It isn't my problem, if they lead to more good shit being out there I might as well watch the good shit. Else their sacrifice would be in vain.

>just so much bigger than in the west.
I wouldn't say that.

there are a lot more new anime being aired each season but that's because american tv prefers to milk the shit out of each show they produce and make more episodes of currently airing shows.

which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Most cartoons are shit, and there are plenty of good things coming out per season that rival the good cartoons.

What's defined as Western and Eastern culture in these, I don't really know much about either so beyond stuff like moe girls and big robots being East stuff and super heroes and Loony Tunes being West I don't know much about both sides

I like that image user. Very true stuff.

The only problem here is that Avatar is not based on Japanese culture, it's Chinese (despite the anime inspiration).
But it's a good image otherwise

Cartoons aren't shit. It's that most of them are written and designated for children as opposed to anime which has a broader audience consisting of both children AND adults. That being said, when cartoons are serious and aimed for at least a teenage audience they tend to have better and more creative writing.

Mind you i'm leaving out masterpieces and only talking about in general.

>which has a broader audience consisting of both children AND adults.
>AND adults.

This is what amerifats actually believe.

I find it intresting that even the way western and eastern animators animate stick figures is stylistically different
youtube.com/watch?v=_xUrbDu4rvE
youtube.com/watch?v=BZG4TmgtpsU

we seriously need a study to see if the public opinion on animation has changed. I mean, I'm pretty sure a majority of the population still thinks video games are for children.