Will anybody surpass the sheer amount of classics he's released?

Will anybody surpass the sheer amount of classics he's released?

Who?

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Frank Miller produced more classics. So did Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. So did a handful of manga artists. Moebius as well. Grant Morrison and John Byrne are both close.

>I've been reading comics for months!

He's also pumped out a lot of shit too.

>So did a handful of manga artists
Who in particular? Most artists just stick to 1 or 2 series and that's pretty much it. Maybe Go Nagai?

>Go Nagai
Him, Tezuka, Rumiko, to name a few.

>John Byrne
Lol

>Preacher
>Hitman
>Marvel Knights Punisher
>Punisher Max
>The Boys
>Hellblazer
>War Stories
>Fury: My War Gone By
You know who

Crossed

Truth.

John Byrne has only one classic as a writer: his FF run. Great artist on X-Men, Avengers and Superman, though.

Next Men is laughable. So is his Spider-Man, Wonder Woman and AWC.

I now want Alan Moore's take on Devilman desu

Gaiman already tops him, and in more mediums

Carl Barks
Don Rosa

>Frank Miller
Off the top of my head I can only say his Daredevil, Batman and Sin City that are truly classic, a lot of other stuff like Ronin or 300 for example is more cult classic. Moore's stuff on the other hand is actually classic and not just cult classic. As for Stan Lee, his stuff on FF and Spider-Man and some other stuff is truly classic. A lot of stuff he did, creators that came afterwards did better. Like Avengers or X-Men.

>Gaiman
YA novels aren't classic user, you don't know shit about literature if you think anything from a meme writer like Gaiman can be classic.
>write one character entire life
>more classics
Yeah okay.

>YA novels aren't classic
Midnight Summers Dream so is Narnia and The Hobbit.

And yes, when it's masterfully made like Gaiman does, it does become a classic.
Just fucking look at his list of awards
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Gaiman#Selected_awards_and_honours

>pastiche and stories about stories, g'vnor
>classic
Lol.
Moore is destined for the dustheap.

Also Ender's Game is YA.

>Frank Miller
ma nigga

pleb

killing joke and watchmen. is there any other respectable reason to like alan moore?

pleb

Miracleman
Swamp Thing
V for Vendetta
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen too imo
Plus he created John Constantine

I'll get to it one day.

Providence
Jerusalem

Killing Joke was not really his, by his own admission. Brian Bolland is the one.

From Hell
>Killing Joke was not really his, by his own admission. Brian Bolland is the one.
What?

this?
youtube.com/watch?v=tpHuAcKBZlg

Yeah, outside of Shooter's editorial, he was mediocre to plain terrible.

>I can but I can't do magic, but I really can

did you watch the whole thing?

>What?
The backbone of the story was Bolland's, and he approached Moore to finish it together. Moore put some things into it, like crippling Barbara and giving it a more somber mood.

I think the fact that the story is not entirely his is partially why Moore says it's the worst he's ever done.

Pat Mills

Why does he hate DC, again?

I'm gonna need sauce on that.
>I think the fact that the story is not entirely his is partially why Moore says it's the worst he's ever done.
He says that because of the bleak nature of the book and its negative impact on cape storytelling.

don't forget ''I'M A DOG!!!!''

No, for the same reason in music nobody will ever really surpass the likes of Bowie or Lennon/McCartney ever again: the internet.

The industry is just too huge, there's too much stuff being released too quickly and too many creators for any one thing to be as big of an influence.

On the plus side this means you're never starved for good content, there's always something good being released. But you don't have things like Watchmen now where EVERYONE reads it and continues to read it for years.

I wouldn't necessarily say he hates DC in particular, he hates corporations, he just had the most direct experience with DC.

Moore created Watchmen for DC. It doesn't matter that the characters draw heavily from pre-existing ones, the fact is his story and his characters have been resold for years and made DC millions. Obviously DC has never been shy about offering Moore as much money as he wants, the problem, to Moore, is that now those characters and that entire story belong to DC and they can do whatever they want with them, with no input from Moore.

Now, does Moore think that's unfair? No. He signed a contract, he did it all fully knowing that those characters wouldn't belong to him. He just doesn't like that that entire system exists that way in the first place. That's why he left Marvel/DC and put so much work into independent publishers, where everything you make, you own and have complete creative control over.

Of course there's an irony there in that places Awesome Comics, WildStorm and others are really just smaller versions of Marvel/DC-- Liefeld and Lee created the characters and have final say on them, but they hire people to write the characters for them, the same way Marvel/DC does. I'm not sure what Moore would say to that.

Also Moore naturally has a problem with the fact the entire industry took entirely the wrong message from Watchmen.

>nobody will ever really surpass the likes of Bowie or Lennon/McCartney

NIN it's just in metal so a lot of people don't care, but it's just as well made music
and people like Yo Yo Ma have made great works branching classical and contemporary.

It's silly to say no one will reach those composers when others have.

Same with comics. In the last year The Visions and The Flintstones came out, both amazing.

No, I agree. Though I'll say NIN had the benefit of again being famous before the internet got so ubiquitous.

What I mean to say isn't that writers will never accomplish things on the same level as of Moore, just that none will reach the same level of fame. King is held in high regard but he's not likely to ever be a name like Moore, Gaiman, Ennis, etc. where he can sell an entire imprint or even a publisher just on the fame of his own name. And as we know Mark Russel will probably not become anything more than a critical darling; Prez and Flintstones didn't exactly light the charts on fire.

Watchmen is a book that everyone who likes comics has read and will continue to be for decades. King's stuff is great, Vision, Sheriff of Babylon, Omega Men and Grayson will probably continue to be highly recommended for years to come, but none of them will possibly have as big an impact on comics as Moore's works did because the industry is far too large now for any one writer to turn it on its head.

Mark Millar is better than Alan Moore

The industry was larger in every way except when Moore did it, user.

By "large" I mean number of people contributing, not financially.

The music industry was much bigger in terms of profits back in the 80's, but now because of the internet literally anyone can record an album in their basement and sell it to thousands of people.

Same thing with comics. You HAD to work for the big two back then because they were the only major comics publishers, and if you didn't want to work for them your only hope was a comics anthology like Heavy Metal, 2000AD, etc. Now you can publish comics on a webpage.

>Also Moore naturally has a problem with the fact the entire industry took entirely the wrong message from Watchmen.
What's the message?

King hasn't done a Watchmen or Sandman yet. He did something to the level of Arkam Asylum or Books of Magic. Which is to say great but not iconic. Who knows what the future holds

But yeah, Mark Russell will be one of those cult classics, it's just not main stream enough.

The music industry is far bigger than the 80s. The numbers you are looking at are published by MPAA. More and more music artists are giving the finger to the big record labels cause you don't need them anymore. FAR more bands are active now than in the 80s and far more are able to make a career out of it. Not to mention there are still tons of local bands playing at bars, and there are more bars and bands than the 80s. There is A LOT more money flow in music, it's just spread out now, and that means less money goes to the top 40 charts. Which is a good thing for the music industry

Bendis already has

>Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?
The best Superman story ever told. Yes, its better than All Star Superman.
>For the man who has everything
Another classic Superman story. Sadly its only one issue.

Watchmen is literally taught in high schools now.

I think I like more of Ed Brubaker's comics but I imagine many of them won't be remembered as "classics".

>Whatever Happened
>The best Superman story ever told.
Absolutely fucking not.
For The Man Who Has Everything is amazing though.

>Frank Miller
lmao absolutely fucking not.
>Daredevil
>Dark Knight Returns
>Wolverine
>Year One
>debatably Ronin
>debatably Sin City
vs
>Watchmen
>Swamp Thing
>V for Vendetta
>League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
>From Hell
>Neonomicon/Providence
>Killing Joke
>Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
imo the case could be made for Top 10 and Promethea, too

What do you think is the best Superman story? Superman is my favorite character, and I'm always looking for new stuff.

That trying to make capeshit comics into serious "graphic novels" for adults is nonsense.

Watchmen looked at how you can't really have superheroes with complex, realistic morality in a shared universe, because the nature of a shared universe is that things have to keep going on forever and you can't get too far from the status quo.

If superheroes existed in the real world, it would raise serious questions about morality ("Who watches the watchmen?"), they would be celebrities (Silk Spectre) or they would end up washed up (Nite Owl), they would die sometimes either from old age or from accidents or even murder and conspiracies, they would get conscripted by the government (Comedian and Manhattan) and fundamentally alter the balance of power in the entire world. Basically the entire world would no longer resemble our own.

Something like Watchmen can ONLY exist in its own universe, because it has a beginning and an end, characters get old and die, things change drastically. You can't do that in a shared universe because it needs to continue indefinitely, good needs to always triumph over evil, and who's good and who's evil needs to always be clear.

So what do other comics writers immediately do? They go "Oh, comics are serious now!" and start putting all those things in their shared universe, ultimately leading to utter garbage like Avengers Disassembled and Identity Crisis.

>tl;dr
Watchmen was about how the Marvel/DC universes need to have a certain degree of unreality to them in order to work. People thought this was a CRITICISM of Marvel/DC and not just a statement of fact, and started putting more realistic elements.

>For The Man Who Has Everything
my fav superman story desu. Length doesn't matter

>Hey guys I just started reading comics yesterday.

I finally get it now. I feel pretty stupid. I always understood it was kinda about portraying superheroes in the real world and why it would fucking suck but I didn't really get the point until now.

Gardner Fox
youtube.com/watch?v=jdL9qZIwcCI

This desu. When was the last time any of Moore's comics had a good movie adaptation.

Miracleman would make for a good movie

V for Vendetta is the only watchable one but evens so is a pretty dogshit misinterpretation of the comic and the fact that is spawned/was embraced by one of the most cringeworthy internet subcultures forever taints it for me.

This.

Stan Lee wrote more human stories than this hack ever did

Name a one scene that Lee wrote that's as emotionally heavy and powerful as pic related.
You literally can't.

You forgot Leiji Matsumoto.

god, its a childs collage of pretensiousness

History will rightly reappraise the old cunt's work to be not nearly as good as people say, really he did 4 good comic books and thinks he's Shakespeare.

>and thinks he's Shakespeare.
Nope, that's bitter projection at work.

Moore has made no such claim and has himself said in the Mindscape of Alan Moore that the reader and writership of Americans superhero comics are the ones prone to adulation for some reason.

Fuck off psued.

Morrison.