Huh, so it turns out that people don't actually like all the race baiting, gender swapping...

Huh, so it turns out that people don't actually like all the race baiting, gender swapping, black washing and other SJW shit in modern day comics.

How could this happen? Why have our benevolent DC and Marvel overlords failed us?

Other urls found in this thread:

moviepilot.com/p/sdcc-2017-dc-comics-comic-book-industry-collapse/4327814
newsarama.com/35486-sdcc-2017-meet-the-dc-comics-publishers-jim-lee-dan-didio-panel.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

I don't remember them saying that. Sounds like word twisting to me

Pandering to people who don't buy the material is typically bad.

>anytime women get into middle management it's the death rattle for a company.

There are many, many, many more problems with the comic industry than "SJW shit", user.

>Huh, so it turns out that people don't actually like all the race baiting, gender swapping, black washing and other SJW shit in modern day comics.

More likely reason, no one reads comics anymore because it's an outdated mode of entertainment. Why would anyone spend $3-4 on what is effectively 15 minutes of entertainment in this day and age? Piracy being easy as fuck doesn't help.

>There are many, many, many more problems with the comic industry than "SJW shit", user.


Lack of talent.

External agendas.

Rampaging egos and idiocy.

Nobody who has a story anybody gives a single shit about.

And huge piles of steaming-hot SJW bullshit.

Fuck those idiots.

>Why would anyone spend $3-4 on what is effectively 15 minutes of entertainment in this day and age?


Quality, you dumb fuck. Not all 'fifteen minutes of entertainment' are created equal.

Shitty business practices trump all of those, and are the main reason.

It's a shame most comics don't have quality

Would I be called a company loyalist if I said these seem like Marvel problems?

It's ironic coming from DC since Rebirth is one of the biggest examples of what's wrong with comics.
>TV synergy
>completely safe and bland
>foil covers
>thousands of variants
>big event comics
>Rehashing old concepts for nostalgia
>strict editorial from Johns

But I think they're on the right path with Dark matter and Young Animal. No variant covers on dark matter seems like a positive, though I doubt that the rest will follow.

Marvel and their wacko lefty bullshit is entirely to blame and everyone knows it.

Yes, yes you would. DC is guilty of all of those things (Except maybe SJW nonsense, but I think that's more a symptom than the disease) in marginally smaller amounts.

>Listening to a prick who gave AMC even more staying power
Fuck that noise.

DC has some of those issues but Marvel is so disproportionally worse that you would be mostly right

Half those points are wrong

Meant to quote

>>thousands of variants

No

moviepilot.com/p/sdcc-2017-dc-comics-comic-book-industry-collapse/4327814

>"We have to stop the collapse of the comic book industry." When an industry veteran like Jim Lee puts it as bluntly as that, comic book fans across the world sit up and listen. The comic book market isn't in a good shape; sales are dropping, and market leader Marvel is repeating short-term sales strategies that caused the '90s comic book bubble to burst. Flagging comic book sales are at the heart of the paradox of San Diego Comic-Con 2017; superheroes have never been more popular, and yet the comic book industry is in trouble.

>Unusually, at #SDCC2017, DC Comics publishers Jim Lee and Dan DiDio were absolutely open about the challenges they're faced with today. They also talked at length about just how they aim to turn the market around.

>The Success Of DC Rebirth

>Spearheaded by Geoff Johns, the #DCRebirth initiative has been a tremendous success. DiDio openly admitted that while the company's previous 'New 52' relaunch had allowed them to reexamine characters and try new things, they realized that something had been lost along the way.

>Although sales are beginning to falter a little, the fact that they're still strong a full year into the two-year arc is impressive. What's more, SDCC has seen DC Comics up the ante, revealing details of Geoff Johns's 'Doomsday Clock' event. As teased all the way back in last year's DC Universe — Rebirth #1, this will bring the characters of Alan Moore's Watchmen into contact with the main DC Universe. Speaking at another panel, Geoff Johns teased that he'll be bringing Lex Luthor and Ozymandias — the smartest men in their respective comic book universes — face to face. He also confirmed the long-standing fan theory that Dr. Manhattan is the force behind 'Rebirth'.

>As comic book fans noted when Johns's DC Universe — Rebirth was first published, the whole arc is in part a repudiation of everything comics have been doing for the last couple of decades. It rejects the pessimism and darkness that was en vogue in the aftermath of Alan Moore's Watchmen, and positioning the characters of Watchmen as the villains who've stolen life and hope from the DC Universe is a glorious meta-narrative.

>A Need To Change

>The comic book industry is in a strange place. As DiDio noted, "Comic books have become the second or third way to meet characters like Batman and Superman, and we want to change that." That's going to mean increasing the profile of the comics, focusing in on marketing, and changing strategies. DC isn't content to just coast off the back of their box office success; they want the comic book publisher to stand on its own two feet.

>As a result, DC is shifting its focus. Lee talked about the importance of what he called the "evergreen" stories — the tales that never grow old, like Alan Moore's Watchmen, and Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns. The challenge facing DC is a simple one; how can they make the next generation of "evergreen" stories, that don't require in-depth knowledge of superhero continuity, but that stand the test of time and transform the genre? Part of it is getting key writers on board; the only one Lee named in the panel was Neil Gaiman.

>Lee explained that they want to give their creators a challenge: to tell "the best Superman story, the best Batman story, the best Justice League story." It dovetails perfectly with comments legendary Batman writer Scott Snyder has been making in recent months. He's been talking about stepping aside from All-Star Batman in order to participate in a new venture, one DC clearly hopes will transform the market.

Which ones?

>"DC approached me and said, how would you like to take some of the stuff that you are working on with Sean [Murphy] and do it a new, prestige format? Instead of doing it monthly, why not do it in this format that would allow for it to be a bigger stage, both for Sean artistically, and to package the story in a new way and then allow every subsequent story that I was going to do with Paul Pope, with Afua [Richardson], with Lee Bermejo, be done in this format that really foregrounds the art – different paper size, different cut, the whole thing? In that way, it seemed obvious and a perfect solution instead of having them work month-to-month on a normal-sized, conventional comic, we could be some of the first people to try driving in this new lane for DC. I’m really, really thrilled about it."

>DiDio described this as a "mature readers line," one inspired by graphic novels that "allow the art to breathe."

>A Different Approach To Diversity — And A Growing Emphasis On Artists


>Since April this year, DC has been teasing the importance of a new line that they call 'Dark Matter.' Introducing a whole swathe of new characters, and featuring top talent like Lee, John Romita, Jr., Greg Capullo and Andy Kubert, the line will focus as much on the artists as on the writers. The last few years have seen comic book writers essentially become celebrities, while artists remain seemingly undervalued. In contrast, DiDio stressed that the partnership between the writer and the artist will be key to the success of 'Dark Matter.' He's got a point; comics are a visual medium, after all.

>The goal of 'Dark Matter' will be to improve the diversity of the DC Universe without altering the classic characters. It's clearly a very different approach to the one taken by Marvel, whose 'Legacy Heroes' have become pretty controversial among comic book fans. The creative teams are working to recapture the energy of the early years of Marvel, or the launch of Image Comics; they want 'Dark Matter' to be fresh and exciting. Lee, who kicks the line off working alongside James Tynion IV on The Immortal Men, described the thrill of creating whole new characters and ideas. As DiDio noted, they "don't want to be a cover band" that just plays the same old hits all the time.

>The panel gave tantalizing hints that 'Dark Matter' will see DC embrace a different retail model in some way, too; DiDio called 2018 a "transformative year," and expressed a hope that the publisher will reach beyond the traditional direct market. While DiDio and Lee didn't explain any details, they made it clear they aim to increase the number of new comic book fans, and we'll be watching with fascination to see what approaches DC take.

>Avoiding Gimmicks

>Retailers will breathe a sigh of relief; DC is avoiding a lot of the gimmicks that create a temporary sales boost, but seem to be damaging the industry. Take, for example, one of the most common; for every first issue to be supported by a wide range of variant covers, many of which have different prices to indicate their rarity. While these are loved by collectors, they typically lead to the next issue's sales dropping like a stone. Worse still, DC has noted that the inflated prices actually drive casual fans away. As a result, the publisher is literally not going to do any variants in support of the new 'Dark Matter' line.

>As DiDio noted:

>"All we do with that is put obstacles in the way of you buying comic books. Raising prices, variant covers...We have got to stop. We can't afford this to be a dying business."

>While I'm sure DC will continue to use some gimmicks — their lenticular variants for 'The Button' were a tremendous success, after all — they're clearly aware of the risks of going overboard. This stands in marked contrast to Marvel, who noted the success of those lenticular variants, and recently announced that their entire 'Marvel Legacy' range later in the year will feature them. We're seeing DC and Marvel part ways, not just on pricing, but also on the use of gimmicks. It's going to be very interesting indeed to see how the industry reacts.

>Meanwhile, although the publisher can't afford to put all books back to the $2.99 price, they're pricing carefully. The 'Dark Matter' books will all be cheaper than the normal titles, while some of the Dark Knights: Metal books will also be at a lower price point.

>The last year has seen DC reverse years of decline, leaving their biggest rival Marvel struggling to catch up. Still, the comic book industry as a whole isn't in a good place right now. Marvel has taken one approach, with their 'Marvel Legacy' range; they're appealing to nostalgia, indulging in all the traditional gimmicks, and desperately attempting a back-to-basics, "meat-and-potatoes" relaunch. Unfortunately, as long-term comic book fans will know, those are the very strategies Marvel employed back in the '90s, and the comic book industry crashed. In contrast, while they're also stripping things back, DC seem to be taking a fresh approach. They're attempting to expand their range, to reach out to new markets, and to redefine the industry in a way that could well make a difference.

>Comic book fans all over the world can only wish them success.

And yet again, it's all Marvel's fault. Just like the 90s.

Why does marvel hire sjw cucks to ruin their comics anyways?

Because they're run by marxist Jews

Because they're inexperienced and therefore cheap.

They don't have business sense and want to presch from pulpits, not entertain.

Comics have always been run by kike rats.

People never read comics to begin with.

mostly because an industry built on white comic book nerds is doomed to collapse every few years because the readership-->creator chain is toxic and incestuous? Both Marvel and DC have been trying to find a way to appeal outside their standard readership for decades to varying amounts of success and failure.

it took everything we had, years of effort... but finally and thx to Homecoming underperforming so fucking bad (or well?) they know we are not racist, misogynist or some other shit. and we dont need lectures about things that we are not.

>dat clickbait headline
That's not what Didio or Lee fucking said at all though.

Read what they actually said newsarama.com/35486-sdcc-2017-meet-the-dc-comics-publishers-jim-lee-dan-didio-panel.html

>Dark Matter titles will not feature variant covers.
>"Nothing is more valuable than a single book that everybody wants," said DiDio.
>DiDio said DC sold less books when they upped prices to $3.99. "All we do with that is put obstacles in the way of you buying comic books. Raising prices, variant covers...We have got to stop. We can't afford this to be a dying business."
>"We want to give you every reason to buy Dark Matter, and no reasons not to buy it."
>"We have to stop the collapse of the comic book industry," said Lee.
What they were saying is that they DON'T want it to collapse or be a dying business. Not that it is.

If anything it was a direct swipe at Marvel's latest tactics to keep themselves on top of the monthly charts and give the appearance that everything is alright at the house of mouse.

Lee and Didio DON'T want to do what Marvel are doing becasue that will collapse the market again.

lol

lmfao

>TV synergy
Out of all the books DC is putting out the only synergy they've doing is Supergirl and some of the JLA characters.
>completely safe and bland
Yeah, bringing the fucking Watchmen into the main DCU and undoing all previous reboots is completely safe and bland.
>foil covers
In a year and a half they've literally had 4 so far. They're only doing them for direct Watchmen related stuff and the main METAL line.
>thousands of variants
Literally all of which are completely open order. No incentive based ones whatsoever like Marvel.
>big event comics
Metal is the first event of Rebirth and the first since Convergence which was what? 3 plus years ago now. Not to mention that as far as events go Metal is relatively minor, only a hand full of tie-ins spread out over 8 months.
>Rehashing old concepts for nostalgia
Because comics have never done this before.
>strict editorial from Johns
But that's a great thing. It's why writers like Lobdell, Vendetti and Humphries have been able to rise to their full potential. Plus it's not really anything like "strict editorial from Johns" he just makes sure everyone is on the same page and doesn't do anything major to fuck shit up. He's a guiding hand not a controlling fist.
>No variant covers on dark matter seems like a positive
There's nothing wrong with variant covers that're open order. It allows people to pick and chose. It's when they're incentive based that they become a problem.

>"We have to stop the collapse of the comic book industry." When an industry veteran like Jim Lee puts it as bluntly as that, comic book fans across the world sit up and listen.
Holy shit they took what he said completely out of context. See

>big event comics
yeah all those big event comics DC has done in the past 5 years, like Forever Evil and...

Fuck off Sup Forumsmblr

phrasing it as "stop the collapse" implies that it's already happening

Convergence. But to be fair while it was a shit show they needed something for the move and it only lasted 2 months.

>oth Marvel and DC have been trying to find a way to appeal outside their standard readership for decades to varying amounts of success and failure.
Sure but the sjw expirent was clearly a faliure for marvel so why do they keep going

Marvel has been trying to crash the industry for a few years now but DC has joined them and it seems like a race to see who can put in the final nail in the coffin.

in some ways it wasn't. Much as Sup Forums hates it, Squirrel Girl is successful among the younger crowd, as are Moon Girl and Ms. Marvel. That's absolutely vital for the continued health of the industry.

You couldn't be more wrong. DC is actually working with the smaller publishers because they know Marvel is failing

heh.

>Quality
>cape comics

pick one

>Did you like those 4 issues guys? Well we will have more in 3 months...Or longer...Maybe

Image was a mistake

Instead rehashing old super heroes why wont they come up with something original?

>Kirkman announced he's ending TWD
Image is fucking done.

He said he has an ending in mind somewhere around issue 300 or so. That's still around 12 years away.

Why is everyone on this board so dedicated to constantly getting everything wrong in such a way as to be as negative and inflammatory as possible? You people are bad at enjoying things and being happy.

DC is using the same shitty tactics with double shipping, events with lots of tie ins and a lot of variants. They sacrificed quality to chase the quick and for the last two months Marvel has dominated in unit and market share.

>New 52 Supergirl was consistently pretty good to great even though it changed writers/artists every few issues and was constantly dragged into crossovers
>Rebirth Supergirl sucks dick
thanks Johns

I have been saying that the comic industry is dying for a long time and that sells are bad, but I get called delusional and that I know nothing.

GET BTFO Sup Forums

What events?

graphic novels are the only printed medium that saw an increase in sales last year
people just aren't buying superhero bullshit

>15 minutes
It only takes 5 minutes to read a comic nowdays.

Wasn't there some Marvel employee in one thread not too long ago? I remember tha he said that Disney and Marvel doesn't really care about SJWs and that they represent "hip youth" to them. They are not planning on abandoning them any time soon.
Only thing they seem to be interested is getting children back for buying comics. Also they want to push neckbeards and old comic fans away.
Something like that.

>And for the last two months Marvel has dominated in unit and market share.

By doing the shit you're pretending DC is doing. Not to mention and endless cycle of #1's, over shipping and over priced books

>Also they want to push neckbeards and old comic fans away.

Of course they do. The stigma around comic fans is a big part of why they're unpopular. Warranted or not you guys know it's true

I thought he said they didnt care about sjws because even if they hurt sales they can get rid of that angle in a quick three years. I do remember that they are really interested in getting kids back into comics, which i find odd to say the least.

>More likely reason, no one reads comics anymore because it's an outdated mode of entertainment.

Except the new Sandman is doing pretty well. So quality comics still definitely get read.

If they wanted to get kids back into comics they need to lower the price and get them at places where kids actually go

>DC is using the same shitty tactics
And considering I said Marvel has been trying to crash the industry for years, well... reading comprehension motherfucker. Marvel will always win at this game because they're in full faggotry mode 10 months per year, DC being in full faggotry mode for 6 months is still bad.

As someone who has only gone shin deep with monthlies in the past, all I really want is...

A reset that actually resets, no flashpoint, no previous dimensions, actual, from the ground up classic stories, if you have to zoom forward to include Damien Wayne (if you must) that's fine.

An actual, official reading order. Even if there are concurrent events in books, I would appreciate it if they maintained an actual reading order. This shit is annoying and makes me not want to invest my money into something I won't have a hope of being able to fully grasp.

And finally, some hope that main titles will actually have some longevity. I look at those bibles of 180+ Teen Titan issues from decades past and I'm honestly jealous.

>Squirrel Girl is successful among the younger crowd

Yeah, it sold a whopping 10,000 copies recently. So successful.

Maybe Tumblrettes like you should stop fucking lying.

Thats what i said. If theyre really interested in getting kids back into comics they would have to
A). Reduce the price, or even better, make books larger and with more self contained stories
B). Get out the SJW angle that seems preachy and would scare off their young male audiance, which would conservatively take up 75% of their desired target audience
C). Get them in big box retailers(walmart, target, toysrus), and near the front of the store where candy and impulse items typically are.

>I do remember that they are really interested in getting kids back into comics.

Then they should check what their parent company is doing with the IP. Marvel movies and toy merchandise are successful while the comics are not. And guess what, the toy merch focuses on the classic versions of Marvel heroes, no black Spider-Man or transsexual Hulk to be seen.

Not if you look at it with the context of what Didio said right before that.

If they want to get kids into comics, they need to adapt to the manga way of doing things and have singular, canonical entries that are easy to follow and keep up with.

It's 50 times easier you to be a manga fan than a comic fan, and as a fan of both I would love to be able to buy full art monthly installments of my favorite stories one way or another. It's impossible to immerse yourself in all of this chaos and revolving door plots/titles.

>mainstream comics
>quality

>I do remember that they are really interested in getting kids back into comics, which i find odd to say the least.

Little girl shit, like Smile and Drama, sell.

DC's problem right now is that they've spent years keeping prices low, but underlying costs continue to rise. They'll never go down; nobody's using paper any more, for one thing, so there's less being made and what is being made costs more because it no longer has the same economies of scale.

If you go back and look at the average top 300 price for the last 30 years it's (adjusted to 2017) around $4. But DC can't sell comics at $4 (with some exceptions, like Batman), because they've trained their readership to expect cheaper cover prices, and they've come to have readers who may buy a dozen books a month but resent the price increase of even one of them.

Even worse, the comics they have that do sell well - like Batman - are resistant to double shipping, suffering regular sales drops on the second book of the month, unlike competitor titles like ASM, which sells fewer, but usually consistently, per issue. Again, this is a problem peculiar to DC - and it's not one of poorfags/richfags, but attitude. DC knows that most of their readership are older white males with relatively high levels of free capital (cash in pocket), even though they may have families etc. But these readers have been trained to accept lower prices, single shipping, and the kind of easy, lowbrow schlock that all comics have slowly become; they won't accept anything else but retreads of better comics published decades ago.

The headline is wrong, but the sentiment is correct: comics are fucked without fresh audiences, and as long as there are whiny babies like this fuckin thread is full of buying comics, publishers have a huge problem attracting new readers. Thing is, as these older readers die off, they each take a considerable chunk of the market with them, and they're not being replaced - or DC's market share wouldn't have shrunk so drastically in recent years while Marvel's - home of the SJW - has stayed static or even risen.

Guess what DC are planning...

Toy sales have gone down though since theyve stopped making quality articulated figures and started making unplayable bricks

If THAT'S what you think is the problem with the comic book industry, you're probably ideologically blinded or just not very smart. Likely both.

>Not thinking this is a cancer on soceity itself, let alone comics

...

The state of fucking toys these days. I tried to find some superhero action figures for my kid last Christmas and nothing moved on them except the legs, waist and arms. When did it all go to shit?

Why would the comic book industry be on the verge of collapse if DC is doing as well as Sup Forums thinks they are...?

But why do girls like that gay faggoty shit? I thought they were trying to be less feminine and stop shaving their disgusting pit hair and such.

For the last time, the decline of comics does not have to do with adding in diversity or appealing to those SJWs. DC has a Chinese Superman who is actually written well, and Ms. Marvel has been handled well in her own series.

The problem has ALWAYS been bad writing. You could have the entire cast of Marvel revert back to being a bunch of white guys, and it wouldn't matter in the slightest if people like Bendis, Slott, North, and Rivera were still writing them.

DC isn't better now because they're appealing to your tastes directly, they're better because they have chosen the best writers they can get.

>Thing is, as these older readers die off, they each take a considerable chunk of the market with them, and they're not being replaced - or DC's market share wouldn't have shrunk so drastically in recent years while Marvel's - home of the SJW - has stayed static or even risen.

Marvel has been doing its worst in decades, not "stayed static" or "risen". The only things keeping Marvel relevant is Disney. It should say something none of the stupid Marvel tumblr shit has been doing well and the best selling comic has been a Star Wars comic.

Marvel's comic department is like a dehydrated starving man in the desert, thinking that vultures circling around him and maggots infesting his festering wounds are somehow a good sign for the future. Tumblr only breeds financial failure and it is the exact wrong audience to cater to.

...

That's one writer. That doesn't prove that adding diversity doesn't work.

Because DC can be doing better than ever but if Marvel goes down it's all over. The reverse is also the same. When two publishers get over 75% of the market a collapse of 1 will kill the other.

See

When hasbro became cheap cucks under the kike goldner. I swear when i go to NYCC this year, im going to go to their booth and chew the desingers assess out, among other panels i will troll will dobson be there, i need to know for reasons

I mean, diversity in comics isn't a bad thing for the comic book industry- in theory, having more diversity- just not in characters, but writers and art styles should be a net positive since it gets more people interested in the material.
The problem has more to do with the unavailablity of a shared universe, titles costing $4 for twenty pages, and constantly getting cancelled or sucked into big events.

If you nerdlords got to decide, all we'd get would be a badly-written, blandly drawn story about Batman and his friends fighting an alternate universe Legion of Doom for the umpteenth time.

Marvel HATES the people who buy their comics aka white men

...

That didn't happen with the WWE.

Faggot

>my own opinion about the state of COMICS being taken over by sjws, and undisputed fact, is Sup Forums
Go fuck yourself user

Nah you're wrong. DC keeps the prices low because they make the real dosh on the TBP market in which they are the second publisher while Marvel is the fifth. They do fine in the direct market but double shipping only exist to rush into trades, where they dominate the market, Also the market share of Marvel isn't static or risen considering they are selling Star Wars comics on top of Marvel ones, these two are literally the biggest pop culture franchises nowadays. Both of them combined having a 5% edge on DC alone is pretty awful

Go cry to your mommy, nerd.

>double shipping
How is selling more issues per month a bad thing?
>Events with lots of tie ins
But DC haven't done that. Metal is their first event in more than 3 years and it only has a handful of tie-ins that're spread out over 8 months
>a lot of variants
Literally all of which are completely open order.

Don't try and pretend that DC and Marvel are doing the same shit.

Marvel have had event after event, sometimes several at the same time. Marvel have been relaunching every year. Marvel have been releasing issue #1 after issue #1. Marvel have been having insane incentive based variants. Marvel have been constantly raising prices. Marvel have been overshipping the shit out of titles. Marvel have been flooding the market with tons of low selling titles. These are the only reasons Marvel has been "winning" on the charts. If all things were equal and Marvel wasn't doing this shit then DC would've been top of the charts since Rebirth.

They are nowhere near the same.

If you cant enjoy something because a character is a certain race and you want it to be a tyler perry movie, your a cuck. Keep white male characters white and male

>race baiting, gender swapping, black washing and other SJW shit in modern day comics
Fuck off Sup Forums

on that note, how big is your own collection Sup Forums?