Will it be good, Sup Forums? Batman made me cautious

Will it be good, Sup Forums? Batman made me cautious.

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cbr.com/interview-tom-king-tackles-new-gods-mythology-in-mister-miracle/
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Given that Vision and Omega men were shorter series that involves more obscure character like this here, it's probably going to be great

King is very good at writing weird shit, see Batman Elmur Fudd crossover
So I have a good interest in this

>muh PTSD once again
>completely fails to get Orion
>Mister Miracle kills himself because look at how edgy and cool I am
>muh Game of Thrones comparisons
>muh Jesus analogies
>mediocre, unfitting art
It's shit.

Fuck off, Kingshitter.

It will be good. No one can replicate Kirby, everyone who has tried has failed on some level if not all levels. King is taking a "King does Kirby" approach which is what the only two previously successful New Gods writers, Timm and Morrison, did.

It will be good but likely not true to the New Gods. Just based on interviews you can tell he's making shit up on Orion.

>Implying Omega Men wasn't great
>Implying Vision wasn't great
Kings not good at writing everything, but more obscure charcaters in a limited series? That's where he shines, hell, he made a fucking batman/Elmer Fudd crossover really damn good

It'll bring out characterfag tears so by default it'll be good.

He's already proven himself to be awful with the New Gods based on that latest interview.

I've not read any interviews about this book, mind sharing?

cbr.com/interview-tom-king-tackles-new-gods-mythology-in-mister-miracle/

Ignore Kingautist there. He'll enter every thread that mentions King, throw a bitchfit, make stupid claims and get BTFO and then repeat the cycle all over again.

It could either be great or awful, we'll have to see. Though personally I likley wont be able to stop comparing it to the Seven Soldiers mini, which will be hard to top.

How did I get "BTFO" again? I'm the only one who's made a rational argument so far as to why this series will suck ass.

But sure, keep being a cocksucking casual and ignore how King's MM will take a massive shit all over New Gods mythos.

>I'm the only one who's made a rational argument

Where?

As a major Kirby/4th World fan, I'm seriously interested. It seems like kind of an odd fit, but I've liked pretty much everything King's done so far (yes, Including his Batman), so I'm cautiously optimistic.

Right here (You) illiterate autist.

>being a non ironic characterfag
Into the trash you go.

Wether it's going to be good or bad, it's definetly going to be "interesting"

His interview makes me think no. He doesn't understand the characters and is taking advice from the wrong people.

No.

Nice ad hominem, faggot. Now go play with your Xbone and let the adults do the talking.

>the only two previously successful New Gods writers, Timm and Morrison

*ahem*

Not an argument. Try again.

He's not making shit up on Orion. This is how Starling wrote him, it's how Byrne wrote him, it's how Waid(briefly) wrote him(and King has been talking to Waid). It's not Kirby's Orion, but it's not something King made up, he's just an imbecile for following these hacks instead of Kirby.

That interview said interesting things about Scott with regards to Scott and his own duality, along with unexplored but intriguing ideas about his dynamics with Granny and Highfather.


But it also showed that King is fucking retarded when it comes to Orion

>getting buttblasted over funnybooks made for literal 12 years old
>he claimed himself an adult

Omega Men and Vision both had some real problems though.

Caring about things gives my live validation

It's crazy because just last week we got a pretty good Orion one shot too!

>MUH MUH MUH >:'(
Speaking of non-arguments...

I'd love to hear them. Haven't read any of those because of the mixed reception to I want to know what I'm in for if I decide to read them

Scott has always been a manchild and never as interesting of a character as other new gods. Even in Simonson's series he wasn't the most interesting part of the book.
>muh I gotta kill my evil father
>muh destiny has been forged since birth
Yeah tough shit pal.

More of an adult than your fallacy-spewing ass in any case.

>Scott

Not being funny, what's exactly wrong with that?

Alright, explain what's wrong with the arguments I brought forth, without resorting to memes like a literal child.

It's just completely missing the core of Orion and using very bad cliches in their place.

Yeah but the way he put it with Orion made me think he doesn't get Scott either. Like, he just sees Scott as someone that suffered physically for New Gods sins because otherwise he'd understand the emotional strain Orion had to go through, the fact that he's destined to be this savior and kill Darkseid, the fact that he has a destiny all written out for him, the fact that he's an animal that was raised in the wrong place and how trapped he felt and how he probably wishes he was a kinder man, it's that relationship with Lightray that he has where he can snap at him and then feel bad but Lightray's all like "don't sweat it, we're bros".

Read the second part of the interview.

>I only read Batman Rebirth so Tom King sucks!

They've gotten good enough reaction to warrant a read of couple of issues at the very least. Do you honestly expect every cocksucker on internet to tell you they're masterpiece and then only will you be able to bring yourself to read those books? Read them and make up your mind faggot.

I just don't understand how King could miss things so hard.

Orion is RIDDLED with really understandable insecurities. He hides his true face and spent YEARS of his childhood in one of Apokolip's lowlie slums.

Not an argument

No, but if you can't even remember the name of the character whose run you are referencing it devalues your stance

I have read Sheriff of Babylon, Omega Men and Vision too, you blithering retard. They're all the same fucking shit.

You want to give actual examples rather than just saying "he doesnt get muh new gods"

>Haven't read any of those
Then what's the point? He just had some "shock" twists for Vision that didn't make any sense and where only there to set up epic tweests and shit. And then in Omega Men he shows Kyle hopelessly in love with Carol but then he sleeps with Kalista and gets a bit emotionally involved too.

What did he say about Orion that makes anons keep saying he doesn't get him?

It was pretty meh and Orion was still a bit too much of an asshole compared to Kirby's. Also dialogue sucked.

>without resorting to memes like a literal child.
>says this in defense of an argument based on a literal meme
Nice of you to admit that you're a child.

>muh PTSD once again
Whoa, where?
>completely fails to get Orion
Failed?
>Mister Miracle kills himself because look at how edgy and cool I am
Whoa where?
>muh Game of Thrones comparisons
Whoa where?
>muh Jesus analogies
Whoa where?
>mediocre, unfitting art
Whoa where?
Your entirely speculative argument, It's shit.

>he said while posting on Bangkokian transgender erotica posting forum

Well, King describes Orion as a bully who grew up in luxury and pretty much states that this makes his angst less valid. Because he hasn't had any actual turmoil or pain thrust upon him.

King isn't stating this as part of a new take, but as some kind of fact.

When Kirby's run actually goes in to great detail as to why that's not the case. Orion doesn't feel like he belongs, goes to great lengths to pretend, is torn between his innate violent nature and the love he has learned on New Genesis - and spent his childhood in a Lowly Pit.

These are things that King is simply pretending didn't happen or aren't part of Orion's personality profile.

I'm not going to attack your taste since everyone has preferences but what did you not like about them?

Still not an argument. And I don't double check before shitposting about children's escapist fantasy books.

>And I don't double check before shitposting about children's escapist fantasy books.

Then why you here man?

It's amazing how the definitive take on Orion is by Starlin/Byrne and not Kirby. It's like people didn't actually read Kirby's New Gods.

I expect people to be able to tell me what they think and why. My lcs doesn't have any single issues of any Tom king series so I would have to buy a whole trade off amazon. Why should I spend so much money just to "make my own opinion" if I could instead give strangers on the Internet the opportunity to talk about the hobby they are passionate about? It's not like I substitute others opinions for my own, or is this something you would do? My(and everyone's) time and money ate limited and I can't check out everything that may warrant checking out, so am I the bad guy for trying to reach out to people?

He compares Orion to a prep school kid who's never had real problems and says there's a gulf of suffering between him and Scott who truly grew up on Apokolips. He makes a very direct Jesus analogue about Scott too and says that his lightheartedness is only a way to cover up how broken he is inside.

You can see how the Jesus thing might go.

It's crazy that I like King's minis. I think he's a really talented writer.

But somehow Shane Davis is coming out on top here as getting stuff.

So Orion faces existential angst of a luxurious first worlder? That's just very average motivations and characterization tbqh all things considered.

>doesn't read interviews and previews
Thanks for admitting you're mentally challenged. I think we're done here.

>Why should I spend so much money just to "make my own opinion"
The Omega Men series is collected in one cheap tpb. Buying it over 2 singles issues is more cost effective. Also, you can always pirate and issue or two, you fagget. You're literally on Sup Forums.

Even if he does the whole ressurection 'escape from death' thing it wont have as much impact, because Shilo already pulled it off.

Yeah, a bit.
But Kirby being Kirby he adds layers of bombast to pull it off - and then compounds it by tying it into the larger dynamic between him and Highfather.

Once Bekka comes into the mix...it's a becomes sort of a struggle of learned behavior in the absence of love.

I'll wait to see how the first few issues are before passing judgement. It's written well, but its doing a lot of things with the characters I don't like.

1. The plot seems to be Scott trapped in Omega Sanction which is basically what Morrison already did with Shiloh in Seven Soldiers.

2. I see what King is trying to do with portraying Scott as this kind of slubby everyman. But Scott was always outgoing. He was a performer. He had a student in Shiloh a waifu in Barda and a friend in Oberon. He was outgoing and full of energy.

3.I see what King is doing with Orion and I don't like it. I hate that the noble warrior with a dark side that Kirby wrote is constantly misunderstood by writers. He's jealous of Scott like Kalbak was jealous of him. It's interesting, but it's not Orion. Orion isn't going to come to Scott's house to beat him up. He was friends with LIGHTRAY for fucks sake.

No? Orion never actually gets to enjoy the "ETERNAL OPTIMISMS OF NEW GENESIS". He spends all his time fighting a covert war. ALL his time. The little rest he gets is like this big event for him and he can't stand it.

He's essentially the God of War living in a society that abhors any sort of violence.

>implying Kingshitters read other writers' works
lol
they'll applaud like the trained seals they are

Yeah I like King's previous minis too. And his GL one shot. And the first couple of Grayson issues. But I really dislike the fact that he's listening to the wrong people and trying to please people instead of doing something HE can be proud of. I feel like his work has gotten worse with time despite the fact that he's a fairly creative dude and one of the last worthwhile new voices in comics but he seems to have fallen into a spot where he thinks he has to do certain things that made him popular in the fist place.

To shitpost if I'm being real. There aren't many boards here on this site that promote any kind of intellectual discussions and this board certainly doesn't welcome it. Whenever I do want talk about modernist and post-modernist conflictions of Alan Moore's work or post structuralist and reformist underpinnings of Grant Morrison's or American identity in pessimistic outlook of Chris Ware's strips text I head over to /lit/. Sorry if it sounds derogatory and too pretentious but it's the truth.

It's just not that but the idea of sacrifice over confrontation to defeat evil. And maybe in contrast to Orion? Depends how thick he's going to lay it on.

Well, as long as you're not for real.
It's just a drought of really well done New Gods material most of the time.

I mean, that one shot was pretty damn good.

I had no idea he was listening to Waid. It explains so much.

You caught me kid, I don't give a shit about the book and only saw your "MUH" posting as I was scrolling down page 1, but while I've been outed as a non-factor in this debate you're still a self-described literal child. You self destructed on a shadow of a foe, good job!
>inb4 only pretending to be retarded
I was only interested in the faggot posting frog-tier memes as arguments lmao

Honestly characterfaggotry is the reason that this medium is so stagnant. Nobody needs to it has to read previous work if it stands on its own.

>pretty damn good.
Come on man... I know Darkseid War was a turd and all stuff but that one shot was just okay with shitty art.

Bottom line is, I was excited for more New Gods content but I don't want to read a story written by someone who doesn't even understand or respect one of the major characters.

Probably true, but it showed effort and Orion needs most of the love. Hahah.

If it was more of a stand on it's own work then I'd be more cool with it.
But King is stating it as matter of fact...which just puts into question "How?"

Tell that to the nuMarvel crowd.

If you're deliberately being obtuse for the sake of being antagonistic fine. But there's a bit difference between taking inspiration when writing a character from his creator and the person that actually wrote him as a character with layers or from two hacks that wrote the same character as bland and one dimensional, one of these guys is a person that actually has a grudge against the creator too and probably intentionally shat on his characters as some sort of petty revenge.

I have zero faith in Mitch Gerads to draw anything cosmic or fantastical. It's gonna blow

Not shitposting now, New Gods was never about narrative and whenever those characters were forced in a plot, the end result was shit/mediocre. Kirby's labyrinthian world building is the draw, seeing the mishmash of all the craziness that went through his head and came out on papers is the reason to like new gods. It's just too high concept with too much going on to be cohered into a linear narrative, even Kirby himself shit the bed there. People don't know what to expect from this mythology and they'll never be satisfied. I'm not personally subjectively invested so I can just enjoy stuff if it tickles a fancy or whatever.

Honestly just knowing we're getting reprints of the Kirby stuff is enough. I'd prefer if it wasn't a giant 1500 page omnibus, but since Mister Miracle is getting a solo collection maybe the rest will come.

I was satisfied with the Shane Davis one-shot.
Just something that uses the characters and, if it's trying to do something with how they are, does it well enough.

Kirby wrote the Saga as myth, as legend. Writers need to do that again. The charterers have potential for something, there are layers and shit that you can find in Kirby';s original comics and you can build upon them and develop them further. People aren't satisfied because for the most part the New Gods are all ignored with just Darkseid showing up as an angry punchy alien. And that's not just far away from what Kirby wrote, but it's also boring.

I thought King was a really good choice, at the start from his minis. The slower somewhat detached but still engaging frameworks seemed like a good fit for a way to tell the story.

Didn't expect all this though

Kirby's New Gods stuff works really well as a narrative when you take Hunger Dogs as an ending.

Orion defeating Darksied by -not- fighting him was and will always be the best ending possible to his story. It shows that Orion has become a son of Highfather and Peace rather than a son of Darksied and War.

Nobody is going to out Kirby Kirby, Starlin tried, Morrison tried. It's just not possible. Best thing that could have been done was if the characters were completely given over to someone like Moore or Gaiman and they told a character centric story of big scale. Maybe that happens in the future, for the time being I don't think there should be a New Gods story, only story about characters who are New Gods.

The Hunger Dogs has flaws, but it brings the entire "cycle" to an really natural thematic conclusion.

It's astounding how well it works in conjunction to The Pact when Kirby didn't plan that shit out back then.

> Orion's like the bully with rich parents whose life isn't as bad as he whines it is

What a retard

Wow so you've read it already?!

Where'd you get your fancy time machine, that must have been expensive, aren't you worried it might give you cancer?

Same. But sadly he's fallen into a habit where he thinks he has to do certain things like his dialogue and he's also asking the wrong people for pointers on what to do with this series. Also, the story of how he got offered the title should've been a red flag.

>It shows that Orion has become a son of Highfather and Peace
Didn't Highfather just blow up Apokolips? Peace... right. But the idea of defeating him without fighting is good, yes. Sadly, the Kirby that did Hunger Gods was an old and not mentally 100%.

No you stupid retards.

He's Ares living in Heaven. His very nature is abhorrent to his neighbors.

If he doesn't get his regular doses of PING PING PING he turns into a young Darksied, the spitting image of the enemy of his people and all free life both in body and spirit.

Fuck you casuals. Read some comics.

>Blow up Apokalips

What the fuck version of Hunger Dogs did you read?

>Timm
>Successful new gods writer
What?

>mediocre, unfitting art
Thank you

>Orion doesn't feel like he belongs, goes to great lengths to pretend, is torn between his innate violent nature and the love he has learned on New Genesis - and spent his childhood in a Lowly Pit.
How is this not common knowledge? I understood it from Kingdom Come and Morrison alone.

Why as Darkseid so sad in Hunger Dogs? What point was Kirby trying to make with the way the character developed?

I found it to be his poor man's Thor.