If Holden was the best Blade Runner after Deckard

why did he get shot like a noob. Leon wasn't the sharpest tool in the room

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What’s a tortoise?

You would assume they'd search Leon prior to letting him in the room with Holden too. How he got that far armed seems like a mistake.

They're at Tyrell Corp (as noticed by the chair). Tyrell set this up to get him killed to Deckard can go on his adventure and make the baby.

why didn't holden immediately realize leon was a replicant? the way he reacts to the tortoise question is so noticeably weird

he hid the gun up his anus

so deckard was the first guy to nut in a replicant?

Leon even asks "what world?" when he mentions a desert, that's such an obvious slip-up and Holden straight up misses it

no there were pleasure models for that already

but Rachel was special, remember?

I think he got too cocky. He might thought that Leon was a chickenhead.

Holden was pretty loaden, if you catch my drift.

youtube.com/watch?v=Umc9ezAyJv0
look at 2:51
Holden had the gun ready on his hand too
He knew Leon was the replicant

Holden was 'good' but not THAT good.
Since we only see him and Deckard, that could mean a number of things (maybe all Blade Runners are morons).
Mind you that Deckard also gets very close to get clobbered by Leon, Pris, Batty and Snake-Lady. Considering he survied, Holden was proably alright.

Ridley should have put an insert of Holden's hand at 2:34 just to rise the tension and make things clearer
You dun goofed, Ridley

Deckard is such a fucking weirdo idiot in the first movie, its strange to me that I never see anyone else mention this. Besides just the way that he generally acts, he only terminated 1 of the replicants without being saved either by someone else or a lucky break. When hes in the dressing room with the first female replicant doing his retarded goofy inspector act he literally would've died if those other women didn't walk in. When he's fighting Leon outside he would've died if it wasn't for Rachel saving him. If Roy actually wanted to kill him Roy obviously would've won. The only time he successfully terminated one of the replicants on his own was against the second female one, and he was still acting pretty retarded in that scene too.

Why is Deckard such a moron? In 2049 it's almost like hes a different character because he acts like a normal human being.

There is such thing as a character development. Besides he's putting on an act and try to get as much info about the others from Zhora until she finally caught on the act.

No, Rachel was a slut in the book and declare was like the 10th blade runner to nut in her

The plot of the book also hinged around robotic animals, space Jesus and a talk show host with 46 hours of content a day.
The book and film are almost entirely different entities.

But Deckard is supposed to be the best of the best already. Why would he need to develop into being competent if he is already the best blade runner in the world? Also if he was trying to get info from Zhora it probably would've helped if he didn't act like an actual retard on purpose, that's kind of suspicious.

There are more examples of Deckard acting weird than just that, I think my favorite is the entire fight with Leon.

youtu.be/bbvb20vfxXY?t=36s

All of his mannerisms and lines in this scene are just so fucking bizarre. Especially when Leon is beating the shit out of him and says "There's nothing worse than an itch you can't scratch." and he replies by saying "Oh I agree." Literally what the fuck did he mean by this? This is the best blade runner in the world? The guy getting manhandled and tossed around like a ragdoll? Considering every encounter with the replicants in the movie goes like this you'd think this was his very first job.

When I first watched the movie I half expected Deckard to be a replicant solely because of how strangely he acted.

we are talking about the movie in this thread

Holden was not used to the new nexus 6 models that looked almost like real humans. Nexus 6 were only used off world and in small numbers.
The whole scene was to prove how the replicants and humans are getting close to being indistinguishable.
Rachel was the next tier (nexus 7) who were supposed to become "human".

Why couldn’t it be Holden then? If Tyrell can anticipate the actions of the replicants like this why doesn’t he have more security?

Because nobody wants to watch a Mary Sue winning at everything.

Getting bashed around makes you light headed and odd. I got smacked over the head with a stick in high school and acted the same way and I imagine getting pummeled by a replicant is quite a bit worse.

When did I ever say that's what I wanted or expected? At the very least Deckard shouldn't act like a bumbling idiot during his replicant encounters. I mean I know it's his first encounter with these new models but it seriously seems like it's his first day on the job every single time he comes face to face with one. The only impressive thing he does pretty much the entire movie if I recall correctly is notice the small details in his CSI ENHANCE machine.

Alright yeah that's a fair point. Still at the beginning of the fight before he's even been hit he punches Leon and then slouches over on him for like a full two seconds, then swings back and answers the question Leon asked him before he threw the punch. Pretty much every motion in that scene is just odd.

Well, those are new replicants, who are better at hiding, but overall I agree.

The book is better

That might also be, he could well be a replicant but he's also a loner and a drunk in the movie, so maybe the isolation and the drinking has made him a little weird. Or maybe it's because he's testing the replicants' reaction of his quirkiness to see if they are skinjobs or not.
When they meant that he was the best, I always thought that they meant his detective work and not his ability to kick ass.

McCoy was the best

no, he asks "what one?"

>Maybe you're fed up. Maybe you want to be by yourself. Who knows? You look down and see a computer, Leon.
>Computer? What's that?

yeah, as in "what desert", not "what planet? LMAO I am a replicant from outer space, geddit yet Mister Holden?!"

Deckard being weirdo is part of the charme, though. Also Holden was a assholish smugman, too. Maybe in the future everybody went full nuttso. There is not a single normal person left. Look at Taffy Lewis, also a total fucknut.

80% of the people here would be mistaken for a replicant due to their crippling autism.

>There is not a single normal person left.
Until 2049, where no one really has this "problem", if you'd call it that.

The only human in blade runner that acts like a normal person is actually Tyrell. The police chief is pretty normal too but he's a little quirky. Funnily enough Rachel is actually more human like than almost every human in the movie. Roy as well sort of, until he goes batshit at least.

You say its part of the charm, and while I do realize some people could enjoy it, to me it's just kind of annoying. If the occasional campy weirdness is your thing though that's totally fine.

>The police chief is pretty normal too but he's a little quirky.

Honestly, he felt like he was tricking Deckard into buying a shitty used car.

bryant is my favorite character next to Holden. Those two smoke like chimneys and give no fucks. No metaphysic-bullshit, just barely pulling through this misheap of a shit future with whiskey and cynicism.

Except for Wallace, Coco, The Orphanage Warden, Belligerent old russian hag and even Joshi seems a bit too soft on K.

He was distracted by the sea Breams he had for lunch

He's my favorite too. His dickish attittude has some charm to it.

I don't know how many times I've seen Blade Runner, and I've never seen that gun.

I was gonna mention Wallace but decided not to. You're right though he's a nut. Coco is completely normal, the actor just looks weird. He never says or does anything bizarre, he's just a little soft spoken. The Orphanage warden is a bit strange, I guess? Really the only weird thing he did or said was the whole "bigger than you" part, he was way less weird than any character in blade runner 1. Joshi obviously has a thing for K so it makes sense she'd ease up on him a little. The screaming russian lady is pretty normal as far as russians go.

Look at McCoy.... he's so racist..

McCoy was a rookie with an attitude who kinda got lucky that cases overlapped.

Who wouldn't go crazy after living in a hell hole that is Russia?

So is the game any good? I've been wondering about playing it.

Is not bad. Very story driven and atmosferic.

what is that, a scar?

also, an electric typewriter in 2019

Wow, you're right. Its almost like he was outmatched by a physically superior foe and had the odds stacked against him. I wonder if this was supposed to convey that replicants are stronger than humans. Weird, right?

He's the best replicant hunter in the world, he should know and be prepared for this fact. Yet despite how well acquainted with it he should be he still gets his shit pushed in like a complete amateur. If he knows that they're so physically strong why did he punch Leon first instead of just taking out his gun? That's a mistake a rookie would make, not the #1 blade runner. And once again I'm not asking for him to just solve every problem completely effortlessly, I just want him to be competent.

Yeah, that sounds like a fun movie, conflict and the protagonist struggle is gay lol.

Wow, way to completely ignore what I said. Lets go back and look again.

>And once again I'm not asking for him to just solve every problem completely effortlessly, I just want him to be competent.

I WANT conflict. I WANT protagonist struggle. But I also want it to make sense. It doesn't make sense that the best blade runner in the world would be so incompetent at, well, being a fucking blade runner. You can work around this fact and still create conflict. Make the replicants smarter, make them plan around Deckard, I don't know man there are options. If the writers couldn't think of anything then maybe just don't make deckard out to be the "best bladerunner", just a guy on the case. There are tons of ways to make it work better.

In detective work he's shown to be the best, but physically besting genetically perfect supermen who have insane reactions speeds? no normal human can do that.

I'm not asking him to physically best them or to even attempt that, I'm saying he should be able to deal with replicants better because there's no fucking way he hasn't been in similar situations before despite being only the best at detective work. He should know better than to put himself in situations where he can be easily killed by being a dumbass, like the dressing room scene with Zhora. That has nothing to do with combat skills, that's just him being a fucking idiot.

Perhaps you should make your own sci-fi masterpiece then, user.

I'm sure I couldn't write or direct something as good as blade runner, I'm not claiming that. I'm just calling dumb shit as I see it.

Why he even tested him? They know how he looked as we see later.

I know that this isn't explicitly stated in the movie, but I always got the impression that Deckard was past his prime. Based on his alcoholism and behavior throughout the film, I always got the sense that Deckard was a depressed, guilt-ridden, and traumatized man who quit Blade Running because he couldn't hack it anymore. He only takes the job hunting Batty because he isn't given a choice. I don't think his head is really in the game.

because deckard is a replicant doofus, otherwise how did gaff know he had a dream about a unicorn?

literally the only good scene in the movie. i often just what this and turn the channel when its on tv

ford is an annoying retard action hero. this scene is trippy and has tension. 2049 is a better adaption of the book (even though its not about the book) and a better movie overall

He's basically fighting superman, Roy can dodge bullets he tells him that even shooting straight won't be enough because Roy can just dodge it

because scott is a fucking hack retard. the hole point of the implanted memories is that they seem REAL. no point in the world to implant fantasy dreads. the memories are to make them act more human by basically giving them examples of human behavior and a frame of reference since in reality they are only 2 or 3 years old

blade runner holden hospital scene

youtube.com/watch?v=QpLoDADYF5g

Why did Holden need to test Leon? Didn't he recognize him? I mean, he had detailed files with photos and everything on all the escaped replicants.

t. Ridley Scott
Your opinions don't mean shit Ridley. Trying to make Blade Runner appear to be consciously a smart masterpiece makes you a hack. Fuck off. Deck isn't a replicant and that line of thinking is fucking stupid.

you know what a turtle is?

but what about the origami unicorn at the end :O

blade runners are like mall cops user
why do you think they gave the jobs to replicants in the future? because its a menial job
being the best blade runner is like being the best burger flipper

I can see why they cut this scene. He seems too out of character compared to how he was in the interrogation scene.

He didn't know that.

kinda like your mom when she gets the bbc

>you're at your best friend's wedding. he didn't ask you to be a groomsmen, and you see the wedding party having a great time up there. While getting another drink you see-

WHAT COLOR ARE THEIR SUITS?

Yeah, it's just another plot hole.

BLADE RUNNER BTFO

The thing flying over all your heads is the chief set Deckard up.

All this your the best shit was just a load of bullshit to try and hook him to do the job.

The Chief needed someone to do wetwork that was off the books for the precint and if it went south he already had the ''former blade runner gone rogue'' storyline to feed the media to save his and the departments ass.

Why do you think he had Gaff to follow him, so Gaff could take him out.

Deckard was a patsy from the onset, with a greenlight on his head, Gaff let him live and escape cause he respected the situation Deckard was put into and still managed to succeed, meaning Gaff technically didn't have to kill him as the only thing that went South was Tyrell dying and Batty did that and with Deckard escaping the Chief and the Blade Runner Department can take all the credit and glory.

Probably the test was enforced after a BR went "dude, it looked IDENTICAL" on a civilian.

He thought he was interviewing a random employee of the company. Probably the 20th one that day. His guard was down.

its because they are cops and arent allowed to go around murdering people just because they think they are androids. they have to know beyond a doubt. they act the same way in 2049 and in the book. even after killing them in self defense they have to prove that its an android. obviously he thinks hes a robut which is why hes administering the test in the first place. but to pull out your gun and blow someones brains out you have to be sure or else you just murdered a human by mistake and go to jail

NO

BLADE RUNNER BTFO

It couldn't be Holden because Deckard and Rachel were part of the same experiment. 2 unique replicants made at the same time.

Being the best Blade Runner is not being batman or John Wick. As I see, the best blade runner is te motherfucker who does Voigt Kampf tests on everybody he suspects and keep pushing it until he finds out is a replicant when others would have quit and let him leave. A cold bastard that kills "people" without any consideration of their pain and suffering, and that shit is hurting him deep. That's why his wife leaves, and finally he quits.

Deckard is shown being the best because he gets that Rachel is a Replicant, even if she is Tyrell's masterpiece.

The way he gets shot so comically and ambiguously in this scene is so weird and disquieting
Why does his chair go around and through a wall? fucks me man

ITT: lots of smart people who for some reason have not yet come to realize that no character ever acts rational or intelligent in a Ridley Scott flick, but the atmospherics are usually really good though.
t.groaned my way through Prometheus and gave up on Scott forever

he only does a pre-written test. Tyrell is mpresed by that test, not by Deckard. And that only proves my point, the best BR is not an action hero, just a cold hearted burocrat and investigator

Tell me what;s wrong in the characters of Alien.

>he only does a pre-written test.
nope.
the V-K needs a lot of interpretation from the BR.
And you are a fucking baby. Investigation is not only action.

Why not test all who mach data they had and not random workers then?
And why did he killed Zhora and Leon later, not performing the test first? Don't tell me it's because they tried to kill him, he could stop them not only by killing.

>Investigation is not only action.
what?

>the V-K needs a lot of interpretation from the BR
And? Nexus 6 is a much more "human" replicant and he needs more question to get to a concluison. Period. What's so amazing about Deckard's skills there?

Anyways, what the fuck are we talking about? I'm responding to people arguing that Deckard can't be the best BR since he gets his shit smacked by every nexus 6 he has to kill. And my point is that being a good BR is not being an action hero.

So fuck you.

well the main plot of the movie is about how these new androids are extra dangerous and just almost killed a veteran hunter. so maybe han solo was less by the book because of it

also holden and solo are two different people and maybe do things differently. its important to not that they keep it up in 2049, notebook guy is even still trying to test him mid fight

Why is Deckard ask why replicants come to Earth and says that it's unusual if the sole purpose of Blade runners is hunting replicants on Earth?

exposition

In this case, you are absolutely right.
Sorry for the misinterpretation.

because is it unusual and maybe he doesnt understand why they do it?

>notebook guy is even still trying to test him mid fight
what

well, they all went out of their way to get themselves killed. If they had just followed protocol...
I suppose you could say in the 70s he was able to do somewhat clever characters and not just cartoonish

he keeps trying to test the android whos actively trying to kill him with the eye light thing

>If they had just followed protocol...
Are you retarded? The android opens up because he has an agenda.
Don't comment movies if you have ADHD

Course!

It's the law and he is one that is build to comply.
Makes sense.

The unicorn was about Deckard chading the impossible. Gaff saw Rachel in his apartment and left the unicorn as a sign that he knew and that eventually other Blade Runners would be coming for Rachel. It was a friendly warning and had nothing to do with the dream. That's why he takes Rachel and runs.