Wonder Woman by Roy Thomas

Hola, Sup Forums. Happened to be reading Marvel Comics: The Untold Story when I was reminded that Roy Thomas did a run on Wonder Woman that I had never read. So let's go ahead and read it together, if you'd care to join me.

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dropbox.com/sh/rwqrasp45cfsxu9/AACi5mhCeheYFvp-L9juE0t5a?dl=0
youtube.com/watch?v=1P17ct4e5OE
dropbox.com/s/19tllwajsdsji3i/Sean_Howe_Marvel_Comics_The_Untold_Story.epub?dl=0
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In Wonder Woman #300, which we will get to, Roy Thomas' wife, Dann, becomes the first woman to ever be given a writing credit on Wonder Woman.

This issue is also the debut of the villain Silver Swan, who becomes one of Wonder Woman's signature villains, though admittedly the later reimaginings of her are the ones that we remember.

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Hey Gene Colan too

Yep, Gene Colan, and Romeo Tanghal on inks who I'm a fan of for his work inking George Perez during this time, and Gerry Conway who was Thomas' partner in crime during his time at DC.

Here's my Wonder Woman DB folder with my previously posted comics, and a folder for this one:
dropbox.com/sh/rwqrasp45cfsxu9/AACi5mhCeheYFvp-L9juE0t5a?dl=0

Neat. How's things, Tex?

And I'm sorry, but the fact WB is actually going ahead and doing fuckin' Flashpoint is such a boneheaded move that it sounds like a bad joke. Especially in the wake of the WW solo film that is widely regarded as saving the DCEU from total critical failure. Come the fuck on.

Just realized I should probably go ahead and post the preview. After this one.

Things've been nice. Starting a new degree that will hopefully give my career the shot in the arm it's desperately needed. How you doing, user?

As for Flashpoint, I give it the benefit of the doubt since most of these movies have only the barest resemblance to their comics versions in the first place. Doubt they'd blow all the goodwill for Wondie by making her a bad guy but then >Johns

I'll admit I'm a Johns fan but the guy doesn't really seem to get what makes Wonder Woman good.

I'm fine. Y'know, surviving.

>Johns
To be fair, he made a conscious effort to be less retarded when it comes to Diana. And even then, surely WB isn't stupid enough to have even an alternate version of the character be a total monster. That just reeks of a PR disaster.

>I'm a Johns fan
Dear god why?

My prediction is that she won't be evil, maybe even trying to curb the conflict between Themyscira and Atlantis instead of being the front line for the Amazons. But we'll definitely see her using that sword a lot, because Johns is definitely one of those who see the sword and sandals part of her as what sets her apart instead of her characterization.

I'm a massive JSAfag so I can't dislike the guy. I think he's done as much good as bad: Stargirl, JSA, Flash, Aquaman,

Whoops, autoposted while I was still typing.

Legion of Three Worlds, Secret Origin, Hawkman, etc. Even though his GL was one of the few DC titles I read before I became a DC fan I have admittedly developed a distaste for it in recent years as I've read more past GL runs.

But I don't wanna go too much into all that since I know Johns is pretty divisive and a love him or hate him kind of writer these days.

(probably should have been paying attention and not posted that Hostess ad but hey, everyone loves Hostess ads)

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The conflict will be toned down just for ratings sake. Some of the needless edgy whoreshit in Flashpoint is enough to be slapped with an R rating.

And yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Johns is the one pushing that fucking sword everywhere. Lots of people still see her as a female Superman, despite the Lasso, the tiara, the bracers... Hell, I'm still annoyed at the sheer hypocrisy regarding the Invisible Jet.

You fuckers complain that she's just Superman with tits, but then decry an element that helps set her apart from the crowd? For fucks sake.

Eh, he's hit or miss, really.

I like that Thomas is embracing some more of Wondie's signature elements here-- the jet, the secret identity, Etta, etc., even Steve, that had been downplayed in the years prior to this.

IIRC Etta hadn't even been seen for quite some time at this point.

What's the new and exciting era?

Y'know, that "A Lesson is Learned but the Damage is Irreversible" webcomic was a good one.

I did like how Patty Jenkins retained Zack Snyder's visual flair but actually grounded it in a watchable film with multi-dimensional characters. Shame she's not in charge.

He's a shameless crony and company man, during Blackest Night he killed off a bunch of legacy characters just because editorial wanted the originals back, even some that either he helped build up (Damage) or were his own creations in the first place (Hawk). I cannot respect a man like that.

One of the reasons I think the WW movie resonated so much with people while ones like Man of Steel didn't was that it embraced elements like the bracelets, lasso, secret identity, Steve and Etta, the historical setting that people associate with Wondie instead of trying to pointlessly "update" her for a new generation. Doing a lot of new realistic stuff works for characters like Iron Man that people don't really know anything about, but when you're working with characters as iconic as DC's, you gotta have the things people know.

Of course I've seen plenty of people whose favorite parts of the movie were the Amazons and Wondie beating up Germans with swords and shields. So maybe I'm totally wrong.

Bump for personal interests.

Also "busting loose" makes me think WW is dancing and using her dance moves to take down the badguys.

It didn't last very long but this was coming off the late 70's early 80's which were quite tumultuous for both Wonder Woman and Superman, and really DC in general who were struggling with updating characters to compete with Marvel vs keeping the kid-friendly, old school elements that had better sales.

>Suffering Sappho!
This needs to be a thing again.

>IIRC Etta hadn't even been seen for quite some time at this point
Pfft. Etta's just too much woman for plebs to handle.

Maybe not in charge of the whole thing, but I am glad she's doing the Wondy sequel. Good grasp of the character and basic competence is really all I ever asked.

Interesting. This has a bit of a more in-touch of a depiction of women's issues at the time than the "how do you do, fellow women's libbers?" of the Agent Diana Prince era.

Roy Thomas bringing back Golden Age stuff, Well I never!!

Also I see that it introduces the self-image issues that were part of the later Silver Swan.

Suffering Sapho! was in the recent Rucka run. Bit of ship-teasing between Etta and Barbara, I don't know if it developed into something.

I love that nobody will stop her bit.

The very end of the run where Barbara fully turned to the Dark Side™ laid it on pretty heavily between the two, probably won't ever get brought up again unfortunately. It's a really bizarre ship but I prefer it to StevexEtta.

Also loved the "Yes, I'm familiar with the works of Sappho" bit.

It's the kind of relationship they could just have let run and confirmed as in progress like 4 issues down the line, you know? You don't even need to show it start necessarily.

It's a good line!

Also love that they went ahead and referenced Zeus disguising himself as a swan to bang somebody.

(In case anyone cares, I haven't been gone, I just don't use my name unless I'm storytiming)

youtube.com/watch?v=1P17ct4e5OE

Actual exploration of women's issues is something modern material is sorely lacking. But of course, we can't have a nuanced discussion of real issues in fiction anymore because we live in an age where people are actively looking for excuses to lose their shit over anything even vaguely political.

Nevermind the character is inherently political, and was explicitly created to explore political issues, actually doing that would cause a tediously predictable shitstorm. It might also be kind of interesting, as opposed to the tired as fuck plotline of Olympians being assholes. Again.

WW is always in a weird limbo with regard to the Olympians for me.

p. much this

there's something so deliciously autistic about people revealing just how little they know about comics and politics but

>talking about a board that doesn't read comics

>Rainbow
>without Dio
Still, good taste.

Hey, in Six Degrees of Separation style, a Rainbow album cover was drawn by Ken Kelly, who drew covers for Conan and Tarzan novels, and who else has worked on Conan and Tarzan? Roy Thomas!

(I'm a master at this stupid kind of shit)

I figure it's just that Barbara has taste. Honestly, what red-blooded person doesn't want a delicious piece of thick, sassy chocolate?

Also, pre-Crisis Ares looks weird. He's like a buff version of someone's football watching, beer chugging uncle.

Agreed 100%. I mean, maybe genre fantasy cape comics aren't the place for DEEP social issue exploration, but definitely broad strokes. Which unfortunately seem to be the things people lash out at the most because they're easy to post out of context pages/panels from.

In regards to WW and Olympians, there's always going to be some sort of connection there, but it's definitely been overdone as of late. I liked the way Rucka did it in his recent run, where they were more like religious figures with ambiguous goals, who operated with a light touch rather than outright manipulating events. Which contrasts sharply with his first run where Athena was a meddling asshole.

Of course people also interpreted this as some kind of direct attack on Azz's run.

Jesus I'm talking way too much and it's making this storytime slow as fuck

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IMO Greek myth should be to Wonder Woman what Krypton is to Superman: more part of her backstory than her current story, with only a handful of enemies and allies stemming from it.

somewhat agree, it's definitely possible but the nature of the genre holds it back sorta

I was gonna phrase this a bunch of ways but tl;dr - if you used historical perspectives of the Olympian gods and Greek myths there's a lot you could use to fuel the social issues kinda stuff you're talking about without being too modern day on-the-nose in WW.

BUT that isn't how the Olympians are used in WW generally and they're very distinct from their historical selves with some deliberate inversions. So you probably shouldn't do that.

(that really is tl;dr over what I was gonna have originally)

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You mean like the time everyone REEEEEE'd the fuck out over the writer of the current Green Arrow run describing the character as a social justice warrior?

Fuckin' hell, that was pathetic.

It seems like writers are a bit hard up for WW story ideas, and exploring social issues may very well be the ticket. Used to be drawing from real world events was how cape books were done. Can't do that nowadays without net warriors getting pissy.

>The Texas user
oh great, yet another poltard drumpf supporter
fuck off willya???

I love letters pages.

Let's read that preview before we go any further.

I wish people didn't treat Perez as the creator of Wonder Woman and pretend the Bronze Age never existed. Wonder Woman used to be different and it shouldn't be treated as "the wrong depiction". It seems that by drawing from the TV show, the movie version is actually going back to some of that stuff, specially the alter ego part. Which is currently kinda odd... it seems she will retain the secret identity of Diana Prince (even in the JL trailer it seems her co-workers at the Louvre don't know she's Wonder Woman), but she does nothing to hide it. It's something that can't get overlooked in a "serious" movie in 2017.

It convinces no one user and worse, it's boring.

(Wonder Woman is actually not the first super-heroine, as I'm sure Thomas actually knows. Quality's Phantom Lady and Miss America both debuted in August 1941 while Wonder Woman debuted in October)

You're joking but right after the election someone legitimately got really pissed at me for that.

My mother was a hippie who grew up in NYC in the 70's, you can do the math on my social stances.

Even as a lover of Perez (he was what really got me to fall in love with the character) I gotta agree. In the same way a lot of excellent elements of Superman and Batman were lost after Crisis in the name of modernization Wondie lost a lot as well.

>captcha: Heras calle

Shit this is a great page

The alter ego in the movies has two clear reasons behind it. 1) The TV show is what most people are familiar with, so it really only makes sense to draw on elements the audience will be familiar with. 2) It simply makes sense in context. Superheroes weren't really a thing back in the 1900s, so a low profile is practical. And the Amazons haven't started up diplomatic relations in this universe, so Diana can't really be going around as their ambassador.

But I get what you're saying. I like Perez's work with the character, but he excised some elements that I enjoy, like the Amazon's advanced technology. Maybe we don't treat that run like the end all be all.

The way your eye is drawn is really good.

This scene is EXTREMELY similar to one in Sensation Comics #1 where Wondie makes her debut saving Steve from some gun-toting crooks and chases their car on foot.

That scene was also, probably not coincidentally, in the movie.

As much as I love the old costume the double W symbol was just great, very inspired and very smart.

This is mahou shoujo as fuck.

I can't wait for the movie to open in Japan, just to see what happens. There's already that artbook with pieces by a bunch of name artists, so apparently she's big enough over there to get some quality marketing.

Wait it's not out in Japan yet? Shit.

I wonder if they have any attachment to her show. I know American TV in the 60's was huge over there, especially Batman, but I don't know if that was still the case by the mid-70's.

Here we have the new design for the Invisible jet, looking a bit more scifi. This one's probably my all-time favorite after the Earth One design.

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What year.

1982

Cool.

These two kind of channeling the Chauvinist here

IIRC this preview ran in one of the issues of DC Comics Presents you posted yesterday. Thanks again, user.

Looks like most of this became the basis for post criss wondey.

Dunno, maybe? Simone's run had a joke about how Diana is apparently popular there, which I presume must be because of the show. I rather doubt there's much of a demand for American comics in Asian markets.

Yeah, the Invisible Vagina wins, no contest.

Hercules BTFO

>IIRC this preview ran in one of the issues of DC Comics Presents you posted yesterday. Thanks again, user.
No problem.

Be back in a few minutes.

Nothing wrong with that.

More DC Comics Presents

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I wonder who Captain Wonder could be?

>Captain Wonder
>in other words, legally safe Wonder Man

DC did sue Marvel over Wonder Man, actually, and they probably could have safely used the name. Though I'm not sure how the suit ended. Stan Lee was pretty pissed about it, especially when he found out they had a Power Girl.

by any chance, do you have a link to Marvel The Untold Story?

I kinda hate to read older comics, cause I know I'll just start bitching about how much I miss the older formatting. This stuff isn't ridiculously drawn out, and thus just plain flows better. Books made before the time where decompression got out of control felt like stuff was actually happening.

And there's still the nice character stuff going on, with Diana's thoughts towards all the shit being piled onto her right now, and we get a solid intro to our villains. All without feeling too slow or too fast.

Seriously, modern pacing is utterly fucked.

>Wonder Woman, of course, speaks and understands ALL Earthly languages
Miss this skill.

dropbox.com/s/19tllwajsdsji3i/Sean_Howe_Marvel_Comics_The_Untold_Story.epub?dl=0

Depends. Older comics are written as visual novels narration wise. While modem comics are like tv shows or movies lil narration.

Older comics might also have a bad trend to describe things already shown in the art, which is not needed. DC comics was primary marked for children with their tones pre crisis.

In Marvel you could get away with more.

Totally agree. I've been thinking lately about whether modern readers would even accept something with this kind of pacing, smaller panels, etc.

And I miss prosaic narration boxes rather than the ones that litter an entire page with sentence fragments.

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KANGAS!

This is so fucking cool

See, that's petty and stupid, but DC isn't entirely at fault. Copyright law is so fucked that if you don't sue someone over what could be perceived as a trademark violation, someone else down the line could use that as evidence that you're not defending your trademark, and thus it's okay for them to rip you off.

Yeah. Copyright law is fucked.

Especially when Lee himself was eager to trademark female versions of his characters simply so no one else could make them. She-Hulk for example.

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Copyright law isn't trademark laws. Copyright laws last a long time.


Anyways DC tried suing over Squadron Supreme but the stature of limits passed. So marvel can bypass the copyright while others have to change it around.

Trademarks just have to be renewed. Even if no new book comes out it does. Trademarks are icons and names only. Names you can use on the covers and merch.

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Well, yeah, obviously cut out purple prose, and sometimes a brisk pace leads to cluttered panels, but I still prefer this over the snails pace and tedious dialogue of modern stuff.

I could honestly take or leave the narration boxes. I never really understood the need for narration in comic books. Unless it's part of a framing device, narration is pointless.

Kangas are another awesome element Perez excised. Not cool, dude.

Also ironic considering Champions of Angor debuted only shortly after the Squadron Sinister did.

Narration boxes are more just my own personal thing, I know they wouldn't fly these days.

Also no Kangas in Perez was weird considering he did probably the most awesome depiction of Kangas EVER in an early NTT arc.