Doesn't it make sense to categorize gender and sex separately, one as a biological case...

Doesn't it make sense to categorize gender and sex separately, one as a biological case, and the other a psychological identity? It seems like the only argument to this is "ew thas weird XD mentally ill."

Not trans or anything, really curious.

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it's called a mental illness precisely because they believe it's real and not something they made up

What you said doesn't even make any sense. Men identify as male. There's nothing taboo or off kilter about that. So gender identity is a thing, not something made up.

>Doesn't it make sense to categorize gender and sex separately
No, because gender doesn't exist. It was literally created by Marxists for the purposes of subverting the West. Literally.

You are either male or female. There's no changing it. Bring this issue up in 2700 AD when we have robot bodies.

>So gender identity is a thing, not something made up.
Men identify as men because they're men. It is wrong to do otherwise. That is why it's a mental illness to do so. It's at least as wrong as identifying as a worm or as a falcon.

...

There is no reason to do this. Why don't you just be unique and call it good.

For 99% of people, they're the same thing. The exception doesn't make the rule.

So gender will -suddenly- become real with virtualization? It's real now. It's about identity. You're physiologically a man, so you wear -mens- clothes if they are recognized as mens cloths, observe -mens- mannerisms because it's "normal", certainty not because of physicals constraints. You wear a women's skirt in America and that's not normal, but go to Scotland and call it a kilt and it's okay. Why is this so hard to understand.

There is no reason to accept facts that challenge your bias? There's no reason for anything bud.

Be that as it may, it's a thing and people are acting like it's not and getting emotional over it. You guys are sharing such schizophrenic opinions.

Sex/gender is just a biological categorization. It tells nothing about the person really other than what they have between their legs and their body structure. Believing you belong to the opposite one, or anything else, is delusional. You can be a guy and dress like a girl, no one's stopping you. But that does not, in any facet, make you a girl. There is an infinite number of possible personalities, character traits, or "identities" that a guy could have, but only one biological possibility.

To attempt to state it more clearly, it's incorrect to define gender as an "psychological identity" and separate from biological sex because the only thing that determines a person's sex is his or her reproductive organ. Just because there are trends in terms of deportment and fashion of each gender doesn't mean following those trends (which really have infinite variations, and thus provide no basis for categorization) constitutes a separate "psychological identity."

>Be that as it may, it's a thing and people are acting like it's not and getting emotional over it.
I'd say it's pretty normal to not want to ruin your culture by pushing tranny acceptance propaganda. It's making us effeminate and weak, and that's not fucking okay.

Sex is biological, Gender is psychological. You can be a man and dress as a girl, and it doesn't make you a girl, it makes you trans.

Your next statement does nothing to say that gender is no a psychological identity. If someone born male is raised as a man, given female hormones and srs surgery before they form a self identity (god forbid), they will self identify as a girl, and be seen as a girl by society. They won't feel it in their soul they were born a man and act accordingly. This very premise defeats yours.

Okay, that's completely your /opinion/ and a symptom of a cause. I'm not saying down with cis tumblr garbage, I'm being an advocate for reality here.

if sex and gender (as you described them) had always corresponded with each other until very recently. any variance is a disorder.

>sex and gender (as you described them) had always corresponded with each other until very recently

Yeah, that's not even close to the truth at all. It's a thing that has existed in every civilization. Why lie to push your agenda?

>any variance is a disorder.
Emotional opinion with no backing.

You completely ignored, or did not comprehend, what I wrote. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume I did not explain myself properly. What I'm trying to say is that, because there are an infinite number of ways a guy could present themselves and still be considered a guy by society, there is no meaningful basic for gender outside biology. You can't put a limit on infinity and say "this is what makes up each gender in society's eyes."

>given female hormones and srs surgery

Of course they would be viewed as a female then, they have female biology. Prior to that, however, they would be a male. This does not defeat my premise, it supports it.

>before they form a self identity

People, especially children, do not form "self-identities" separate from reality unless they come up with the idea that they can or, much more likely, are told by someone else that they can. Otherwise, their only identity is that of reality, which is their biology.

>They won't feel it in their soul they were born a man and act accordingly

I never said anything even remotely close to that. You are using your own premises as a strawman for mine, there.

I do believe that sex can be viewed as a spectrum, due to biological diversity and variations. Gender as a concept separate from sex, however, is completely illogical.

No

Catering to mental illness is retarded.

This thread ended at the first fucking post. Why the fuck are you feeding this fucking cucklord, pol?

>Sex is biological, Gender is psychological. You can be a man and dress as a girl, and it doesn't make you a girl, it makes you trans.

Nope, it makes you nuts. Do you also believe that dressing like Louis XIV makes you king of France?

If a dog identifies as a dog its normal, when it identifies as a cat its abnormal

If it was for Taylor, I would fake believe in trans lives matter. I'd use her friends preferred pronouns and talk about how feminism is the struggle for equality, including people of color and LGBT.

Then id come back to Sup Forums, and tell you guys all about it, laugh, and feel ashamed, yet proud that taylor mistakenly thinks im a good person.

i cant help but feel taylor is bisexual

theres no way she didn't sissor that chick shes holding hands with

Can someone explain scissoring to me and why it's pleasurable.
Like, surely that position would be insanely awkward and render you immobile. What if you accidentally kicked the other woman in the face while having an orgasm?
It's like getting your trousers caught in the chain ring of a bike.

take the palm of your hand

and start rubbing your head of your dick

Always seems like people mix up the cultural ideas of what each sex should be with wider identities. Their thought process seems to be:

> I have a penis, but I do not like football or feel manly. My feelings and behavior better match the stereotypes of women
> Therefore I must actually be a woman in a man's body. Off comes the penis!

In the past, we would have just said that there were feminine men, or girly men, or whatever. Those sorts of people have existed for all time. They are often derided, but that is because they didn't fulfill the needs of their society very well.

It is due to Marxist bullshit that we now call this a different gender/identity, rather than just adding a few adjectives. That's why this is bullshit.

(Note that this doesn't account for the tiny percentage of people born with wacky chromosomes, both sets of genitals, etc. But those are mutations/disease/birth defects, and it's not who this discussion is really about. The proof that this whole conversation is so bullshit is that nobody has any problem with these sorts of folks. We just have a problem with the people trying to cram their politics down our throats. It's 2+2=5 from 1984.)

That's her bff and sometimes they have sleepovers together.

So I heard Tay is fucking that kikenigger hybrid Drake now.

This girl was born as a boy, yet she looks better than 90% of women today

Can we all agree that traps are ok as long as they're mostly passable?

I believe they tried something like that in the late 1930's

true male? okay
true female? okay
anything else? Train ticket

There is a great amount of psychology rooted in biology. Humans are a sexually dimorphic species. Sure trans people exist, but it's a mental illness. Think of it similarly to BDD.

Of course

does she have a penis right now?

have this tay pic op

The reason why humans didn't naturally progress as such is because it is better for communication to have specific, socially designated roles to frame how people develop.

I was, born as a woman, raised to be a woman and I therefore act like a woman. When people meet me, they can expect that I'll abide by certain social guidelines expected of women.
If they met me and I was ambiguously gendered, identified as a moonchild, and use xy/xi/xum pronouns, they don't really know what to expect from me or how to treat me. There's less potential for clear, effective communication.

I didn't ignore, I addressed it.

>there are an infinite number of ways a guy could present themselves and still be considered a guy by society, there is no meaningful basic for gender outside biology. You can't put a limit on infinity and say "this is what makes up each gender in society's eyes."

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Gender in INFLUENCED AND BASED ON physical Sex. But that doesn't not mean they are one in the same, even though they coincide. Just as the guy from before said "Bring this issue up in 2700 AD when we have robot bodies" you have a gender identity if you have any ego, and this is already they case. While yes, most people's gender coincides with their sex, what I'm trying to get across is that gender is not sex, and sex is not gender. I know this is a difficult concept to grasp so bear with me. MIND/BODY DUALITY. PLEASE GOOGLE IT. They are one in the same, but at the same time, not.

NOTE: I DON'T CARE IF YOU THINK TRANNYS ARE WEIRD, MENTALLY ILL, UNNATURAL, YUCKY, ECT. THIS ISN'T THE POINT.

The point is that saying gender isn't real is like saying self perception isn't real. It's just like saying sexuality and sex are indeterminate rather than having normative. Gay people still have non-normative sexual physiological profiles just like trans people have non-normative gender psychological/physiological profiles, which in the case of my point, only serves to show that gender exist. Even if you don't want to use the word gender for whatever emotional reason you have, think of something that simply means sexually dimorphic psychological identity.


Or stay retarded. Just know I tried to help.

If it means putting an end to this gender bullshit, then I'm happy to stop assuming that everybody is straight

there
no more needing to 'come out'
you're welcome

Why are you so afraid of thinking?

just following the example

If you're born with a dick, you fall under the "Male" category. If you're born with a vagina, you fall under the "Female" category. End of story, fuck off with your delusions.

No, there's only sex. "gender" is complete nonsense.

And you typically have a self reinforced male identity. Why is this so hard to understand?

If gender means everything then it means nothing.

Your chomosomes are of medical importance.
Your choice of attire and hobbies are not.

Okay, not apart of the discussion. Implications aren't important.

I very much grasp the concept. You are ignoring me and strawmanning hard.

Well, there are already multiple biological genders but apart from male/female they're incredibly rare.

>titay

Would you really mind either way?

How far would people be required to accommodate for gender?

For example, since gender identity is unprovable, what would stop a biological man who identifies as a man from going into women's lockers and claiming to identify as a woman?

How am I strawmanning you exactly?

>Sex/gender is just a biological categorization

This is your initial statement, right? Well it's literally not true, as per the definition of the word. If you state so even as an opinion you're a retarded pushing your incorrect agenda for no reason what so ever.

>synonyms: sex

Again, mind body duality. You can almost use them interchangeably in a stupid way, but gender is it's own thing. I swear to god I'm arguing with people that refuse to believe 1+1=2 because it hurt their feelings.

>society says that ABC are things done by X people
>therefore I am an X person even if I'm actually Y

You are basically making the argument that if I like fried chicken, welfare, and driveby shootings, then I'm actually black, even if I'm biologically white.

Do you seriously and unironically believe in transracialism as well as transgenderism? Because you need to do so if you want to be logically consistent.

Your political beliefs are likely rooted in your biology too.

Men with larger muscles are more likely to be right-wing, and vice versa.

Psychological identity is biological.

youtube.com/watch?v=szcKK0e_6jI

Why do you have to troll us every day for fucks sake, you people come here and tell us we are sick cause we expose ourselves to all this shit we hate ,but whos the one coming to the nazi den to get some Yous?

No, I'm not. Again, you mouth breather, I'm not trying to validate trans anything. I'm explaining to an imbecile what gender is. You have a gender, I have a gender, babies and people born without brains have genders have a gender is they have a self identity. There's (sort of) no transracialism because there's no universal dimorphic basis like sex, for racial stereotypes. It seems that it's too complicated a concept to grasp for you because you're up your own ass about jews niggers and essjaydubyas.

Again, just literally look up what mind/body duality is. And if you don't believe that hard psychology exist, then hey, stay braindead, more power to you.

no, you're confusing sex, gender and gender roles and atributes

SEX: Your biological sex
Gender: everything that makes you your sex, the total of all attributes and biology related to your sex
Gender roles: the things you do that are similar to others of your sex (motherhood etc)
Gender characteristics: the attributes you have or adopt that are similar to others of your sex (women are mediators, men are tough, etc)
Gender Identity: where you see yourself in relation to your sex

Gender Identity Disorder/Gender dysphoria. An egosyntonic mental health issue where someone feels out of synch with their sex AND THEIR GENDER. Their Gender identity is dysphoric=out of synch

I finally get it. You fags like Taylor because she looks like a trap.
She basically looks like a effeminate thin guy with loots of makeup. No butt, breasts or hips.

What do you think about:

traps normally have huge breasts and butt injections

>when you see it

That is philosophically a bad idea considering mind and body are not different.

It makes sense to have a word to refer to the concept of biological sex and one to the concept of sexual identity. It does not make sense to try to forcefully redefine the word "gender" for this purpose.

Gender is sex. Your sex is a biological determination.

Gender is determined by chromosomes, not paychological choices or defects.

Gender as a term replaced sex, as sex became more associated with the act of copulation.

The current controversy over "gender" is about distancing themselves from terms like Crossdressers which have the connotations of being "fetishes".

Similar to how every generation we reframe terms like Mongoloid, Retard, Special etc to not upset or offend the people it applies to.

Think of it like the claim that Homosexuality is an orientation rather than a fetish or dysfunction, but because pedophilia is still repugnant to the majority of the population we don't have to start calling it pedosexuality.

Basically it's language policing to make people coexist with as little drama as possible.

Also, to your argument;

Following your line of thought, you have to accept that psychologically there are distinct and inherent differences between men and women.

Like the desire to wear pink or dresses.

This then steps on the toes of feminists, which creates another set of social tensions.

So you have to navigate more carefully.

> No, because gender doesn't exist.
> You are either male or female.

What? Male and female aren't genders?

They're sexes

>womens biology is their destiny...mens biology is their destiny....anything in between is a mistake by nature just like down syndrome or some other handicap...gender dysphoria is a mental illness and should be treated as such.

Who honestly gives a fuck? It isn't my responsibility heal the sick, or decide whether people are "living themselves". They can do whatever they like because it really doesn't effect me or my ickle fee-wees, unlike the rest of the booty bothered cretins in this tread.

I'll say this:

Sex is biological. If you're born with a penis, you're a male. If you are born with a vagina, you are female. Any other combination of genitals, or lack of genitals entirely, is a statistical anomoly and may be disregarded. There are only two sexes.

There are also only two genders. Masculine and feminine. Thinking you are wolfkin penisfluid is a mental illness. Masculinity/Femininity does exist on a spectrum. There are men that are more feminine than others (looking at you, nu-males). There are masculine woman. However, this DOES NOT change your sex. Regardless of how masculine or feminine you are, YOU WILL ALWAYS BE THE SEX YOU WERE BIRTHED AS.

And since cutting your dick open and stuffing it inside your body does not change your genetic code, give you an authentic vagina or ovaries, the ability to give birth, or XX chromosomes, GETTING DRASTIC SURGERY BECAUSE "omg i feel a little girly today, I better mutilate myself X(" WILL STILL NOT CHANGE YOUR SEX

And until modern medicine can accomplish all of those things, you are and always will be, a mentally ill attention seeking freak

Gender is real. But there is clearly a defect if you identify as something that you are not. If I see red as blue, there is a defect in my vision. If I identify as a female when I am male, there is a defect in my perception.

Ok, I've been giving this a lot of thought lately and I'm finally giving in. I see the value in extra genders now. Here's what I've got so far.

>Male
>Female
>Mental disorder

Ok, there it is. I think three is enough, don't you? If you need more you can put them as sub categories of the third option.

Thanks for opening my eyes OP

They don't actually have female biology, even if they transplanted a fully working uterus in a guy he's still a guy with his dick cut off to look like a vagina and a uterus transplant.

Even when we have the ability to rewrite someone's genetic code and give them XX chromosomes they will still be "males that got switched"

It still wouldn't be enough, they would literally have to rewrite the pathways of the brain to become what females have.

We've been dissing the subject of medical differences for so long, on this equality kick for so long, no one has been able to talk about the differences in the brain which determine your ability to understand and conceive of concepts, as well as your thought patters, what you care about etc.

It may look like the action/end result of a decision making process is similar for males and females, but nothing could be further from the truth. This is why we can't, and never will, be able to understand one another. Our brains literally cannot conceive of things that the other's brain conceives of.

Just like how Africans never made a word for "Promise" or "Obligation", but we're not allowed to talk about that either. (My professional opinion is that this is the reason why most African-Americans don't have fathers growing up)

All these guys that feel like women and vice versa? They don't, the only way you can actually feel like the other gender, like you're the wrong gender trapped in the wrong body, is if you have a very, very rare disorder that causes you to have genitalia that does not match with the gender your brain developed as.

Look up the differences between male and female brains, the deep differences. Females of the same race are more different mentally from males than males of a different race, or a different species all together. You cannot relate, or identify as female without a female brain and vice versa, it's called a mental disorder aka believing made up, delusional fairy tales.

This

your sex is your gender. the penis and vagina are considered your sex, thus your gender. you can be whatever gender you want in your head, but naturally you are what you're born as.

Yes. What you tend to describe as "gender" is completely irrelevant, while "sex" is the only tangible thing that really matters.

I guess I don't see anything wrong with a man wanting to appear more feminine or a woman wanting to appear more masculine.

Because there is nothing inherently bad about masculinity just as there is nothing wrong with femininity.

So if some dude feels more comfortable wearing skirts and makeup, that's his form of self expression. Same with a chick who wants a butch haircut and flannel with steeltoe boots.
I don't give a fuck.

If they prefer different pronouns? Uhh okay fine. I don't really understand the new ones that were invented... but I'll try and accommodate to be polite.


Everyone is delusional in some degree. But if they are happy and they are harming no one? I. Dont. Give. A fuck.

People are free to choose how they express themselves. Not my job to police them.

Most importantly - is it feminine?

It's considered a mental illness because they're crazy enough to do things that they think will make them happy but wont.

That's why the medical/psychological place that pioneered transgender operations has stopped going it.

Because the suicide rate for people that get the operations is actually increased from people that feel transgender but never get the operations.

You know why? Because they feel like they want to be the opposite gender but when it happens they realize it didn't fix any of their problems, and they decide to end it.

Literally a mental disorder.