Why of all the Hasbro franchises does G.I. Joe have the worst luck in reboots?
>G.I. Joe XTREME
>G.I Joe Sigma 6
>G.I. Renegades
When compared to other Hasbro properties like Transformers which has had big success in new lines/shows. Hell even the fucking life action movies end up being beat by the live action Transformers ones so what gives?
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Well, it relies on being 'cool', and the people who try to decide what cool are, and what to base it on, while ALSO being a children's show...tend to be in their late 30s and older. So, you either end it with something that just sucks in general, or reeks of 'how do you do, fellow kids'.
Kids prefer COD and Battlefield
The series lacks worldwide appeal since it's blatantly about the American military as superheroes
Military isn't as romanticized these days as well with current atrocities happening in the Middle East
Having your villains be called terrorists wouldn't fly on family friendly television either
Resolute was great though
especially if said terrorists are generally cooler than the heroes (at least in the looks department).
Transformers has normie nostalgia recognition for a general audience, robot enthusiasts for a niche audience, and hyper autists that buy the toys.
GI Joe has normie nostalgia recognition for a general audience, but then little else. It doesn't have an enthusiast hook because it's not cawadoody enough for the /k/ crowd, and the toys never got the same level of autism-following as TF's. There's nothing that really keeps the audience coming back. RAH was just there at the perfect time, when a halfway decent toy line could keep a show afloat and kids could just watch one block of cartoons and be satisfied for the week.
They're far more memorable and fun to watch
Kids probably had more fun role playing as Cobra Commander and just screaming their lungs out loud "COBRA"
tumblr would probably flip their shit if they were getting into GI Joe and found out Snake Eyes is white
when tfs can afford an updated/upscaled metroplex, trypticon and fort max
updated USS Flagg never (too darn expensive?)
I dunno Rainbow 6 Siege is popular right now which is like the fucking almost closest thing to GI Joe I can think of.
but its kinda...useless? like, its literally just a table
Fuck you, OP. Renegades was thw best Joe cartoon to date.
On top of what others have said regarding military worship and jingoism, G.I. Joe doesn't offer enough escapism, it used to be cool to be an "army guy", now it's kinda not, it's just something you do when you have no other options in life
Transformers, My Little Pony, these brands offer escapism and fantasy, and I like G.I. Joe too but I understand why it isn't very popular these days
pretty much.
still it's size is pretty much the selling point of it.
Hasbro wants to sell toys
Why would kids buy goofy "military" vehicles and figures if they could just play COD, Battlefield, and Rainbow Six Siege?
>Thermite = BBQ
>Buck = Snow Job
>Castle = Road Block
>Smoke = Airtight
>Doc = Doc
This thread needs more Wild Weasel.
Not into G.I. Joe, what's the team role difference between Hat Guy and Blonde Guy? The Ninja, Muscle, and The Girl One are obvious.
Relevant
youtube.com
>the toys never got the same level of autism-following as TF's
That's just cold not true. G.I. Joe toy fandom has just diaspora-ed into general 3" 3/4 fandom as Hasbro has catered less and less to them for the other reasons you stated, there's still a community of autists it just doesn't get replenished as easily because, well let's be frank, G.I. Joe is always going to be the most basic default action figures whose biggest appeal is "they can ride in cool vehicles", while Transformers are superrobots that turn INTO cool vehicles.
Today's political atmosphere basically makes G.I. Joe impossible to publish fiction about. (The RAH comic keeps its head down and concentrate HARD on the continuing storyline to prevent being put in a context with current events.)
The original Joe line flirted with including Nazi figures as enemies, but there was major backlash. Then there was a notion of Star Wars-esque villains, heavily Nazi influences (moreso than the actual Star Wars villains) and finally the settled on a multiethnic equal-opportunity terrorist business conglomerate that was a satire of the militar-yindustrial complex.
If you read the actual history of G.I. Joe it's a series of false-starts punctuated by brief spans of meteoric success. Remember when the original 12 inch line fought time-traveling cavemen? G.I. Joe was ALL IN on that premise for almost 2 years. They had a Fawcett superhero on the team in the 60s. They fought spacemen.
After 2-3 years in the 1960s of wild success the G.I Joe line had about 17 years of missteps before retooling as RAH.
Hasbro is financing these G.I. Joe movies and frankly -- they shouldn't. With Transformers they had a fairly clear vision of what the movies should be about but the G.I. Joe movies were all over the place because no one could figure out what 'worked'. And the second movie should not have been made, period Not if Hasbro was putting down money. There was very little Cobra and no vehicles and all of the heroes wore standard green military uniforms -- there was nothing to sell toys of except the ninjas. (The ninjas being the one part of the movie that unambiguously worked.)
The real question is; do any of the dozen-or-so 'takes' on G.I. Joe work today, and can they move Gunpla? (Sell toys.) If the answer is no, then there should be no TV series or movie.
READING. COMPREHENSION. Try it:
>the toys never got the same level of autism-following as TF's
That statement is absolutely true. The following for TF's is larger, and they are way the fuck more autistic.
Go on /toy/ right now and ask what the most autistic fanbase is. Those threads pop up every now and then, and the results are always the same: 3/4 will say TF, and then 1/4 will be TF collectors that will say something else.
Nothing, really. Flint (Hat Guy) and Duke (Blonde Guy) are functionally redundant in 90% of Joe media.
They aren't even unique in being "the leader guy(s)"... the early comics had G.I. Joe being field commanded by another Dark-Haired Guy named General Hawk, who answered to yet ANOTHER Dark-Haired Guy named General Flagg.
Flagg was killed relatively early on in the comics, and Duke was introduced to be the "Hey I'm the shit-kicking arrogant new CO who's gonna mess with your established group dynamic!" kinda stock character. It helped that Larry Hama had actually served in the military, and wrote meddling middle-management officers really well.
But in the cartoon, Duke was presented as The Guy right from the first scene because his toy was newer - Scarlett (The Girl) had a will-they-won't-they thing with Snake-Eyes (The Ninja) in the comics, the cartoon paired her off with Duke instead. They eventually cycled him out and replaced him with his younger brother, Hawk... yes, the guy named HAWK is related to DUKE, not FALCON.
TL,DR: Joe command is a clusterfuck.
I think Renegades handled it best, where they just made the core Joes the A-Team, and made Flint the Colonel Lynch to Duke's Hannibal.
GI Joe, much like Jem, is a product of its time. It's hard to market the story of GI Joe to a modern audience much like Jem is though for different reasons of course.
think going along the lines of G.I Joe Renegades could work again. Many of the reasons I see people mention are "The government are not well liked anymore and people do not like the military" however Renegades was mostly about how the Joes were in the wrong and Cobra was basically controlling the government and covering up shit all the time.
All I ask is if they ever make a new G.I. Joe cartoon is stop it with the Snake Eyes circle jerk.
Have YOU been to /toy/? Look at the general 3" 3/4 threads, because like I said, the toy-centric fandom has latched onto the scale rather than one specific brand.
I mean I get the argument that "the bigger the fandom, the more autistic it is", but I dunno if that's strictly true.
I mean, fewer people today buy tin soldiers or model trains than buy G.I. Joe, but I imagine that fandom would be more "autistic" by large.
>Many of the reasons I see people mention are "The government are not well liked anymore and people do not like the military"
Fenegades was too far out of the field. You need a group more like SG-1... an elite small unit who has a real view of how things should be done and some nice progressive ideals, who regularly run afoul of a higher-up command staff who want to use more expedient or heavy handed tactics that would cause the entire situation to explode messily.
Outsiders on the inside is about the way to work G.I. Joe these days.
You know... if you think they should be military at all. Which I don't.
>White male
>White male appropriating Japanese culture
>racist tough black guy stereotype
>Black Widow rip-off
>WHITE FUCKING MALE
There's why.
In all seriousness, it's subject matter invokes too much cynicism nowadays.
More like your cynicism
Shit, I fucked that up... FALCON is Duke's brother, and is not related to General HAWK.
Even I can't keep this shit straight.
I mean, the G.I. stands for General Infantry. Unless you're arguing they should use the Action Force branding in the US?
Yeah.vidya just do the joe concept better.
"The G.I. Joe Adventure Team." Globetrotting troubleshooters.
So a ground-up reimagining with Joe Colton as an actual character and not just a vague, vestigial throwback? I'd be down for that.
Hat Guy - Flint - is a young, callow Lieutenant. Blonde Guy - Duke - is the old, grizzled First Sergeant.
A young Lieutenant outranks an old Sergeant, but if he's smart he'll listen to him.
>And the second movie should not have been made, period Not if Hasbro was putting down money.
Yet somehow it turned out to be a markedly better movie than the first.
Better movie. A worse G.I. Joe movie.
>blatantly about the American military as superheroes
But Action Force is international.
>globalism
That's even worse
But it's a base for your good guys to store vehicles and the like. As you have a base for your bad guys as well (Terrordrome).
The old 80's formula doesn't work anymore and Hasbro has yet to find a new one that does.
I think Renegades worked but all the "Not muh" fags got butthurt especially since it was more A-team and less military (the military was actually against them). Also the cartoon was in a shitty channel so not a lot of people knew about it.
That said shit like Call of Duty and Battlefield or prove that people do like military shit.
Alternatively they can also copy the Overwatch formula (every character has a specialty and have their own teams) or Metal Gear Solid on the Scifi espionage crazy stuff.
Their heads would blow once they found out that his creator was an Asian man.
>All I ask is if they ever make a new G.I. Joe cartoon is stop it with the Snake Eyes circle jerk.
When did that start? it isn't that bad in Hama's run, I mena he eventually killed him too.
Also Sitterson had Quick Kick defeat him and it triggered a lot of people
They have bunch of black guys and brown people and Cobra has a bunch of women too.
Also you can say an Asian guy did most of that shit so there.
>Irish Lady Jaye
Eww no
Y'all seen Overwatch? Make GI Joe into that.
Honestly, I could see an updated Adventure Team working if they went all-in on the Indiana Jones elements. And there's no real reason you can't put Joe Colton and his buddies up against Cobra. (also Renegades would've worked great if they hadn't completely fucked the marketing and toyline)
Alternatively, Overwatch is the closest thing to a modern, working version of GI Joe that isn't COD generic army men, but honestly, I'm not sure that the GI Joe name would do that kind of take any real favors.
>Also Sitterson had Quick Kick defeat him and it triggered a lot of people
Oh, god, that was hilarious. The idea that Snake Eyes should be Super Unvincible and not even the other kung-fu-grip martial arts guys should be able to pose a challenge to him really throws the GI Joe fandom's insistence on "super realistic" into sharp relief.
...Y'know, now I really want to see a story where Snake Eyes gets sent back in time to the Adventure Team days, and we get to see a battle between Arashikage ninja arts and the model fighting man's kung-fu grip.
They both have obvious modern counterparts that provide an easy look at how they could be successful.
G.I. Joe = Overwatch
Jem & the Holograms = Steven Universe
Let's be fair. Duke and Flint add literally nothing to G.I. Joe and they could easily be removed with nothing lost.
Duke's primary character trait is "keeps his sleeves rolled up". Flint's is "has a hat".
(The other "generic white guy", Hawk, works best when he's being a kind of abrasive but well-intentioned hardass, which makes him hard to use with a smaller team like you would have to do in an updated Joe.)
Think of a country that's not America
GI Joe is now that countries' team, how is it?
dogfight (macross plus BGM) plays in the background
true but was making an example of how different tfs and gi joe merch are getting treated. honestly they don't need to do a new mold, a rerelease would suffice but they're probably too expensive now for general release
Flint is a Warrant Officer.
Also, a jerk.
flint's contribution to the grand scheme of things is he's a bad dad that drove his daughter to a metal dad
What? Is that image Larry Hama approved?
Make it like siege in a way
If you think Flint and Lady Jaye isn't a top tier couple, I don't know what you're here for.
More than that, though, Flint was used by Hama pretty frequently as a kind of abrasive contrarian. Just a generally good personality type to have around.
Well he's Japanese-America
It's Kiss Players
tfwiki.net
>I mean, fewer people today buy tin soldiers or model trains than buy G.I. Joe, but I imagine that fandom would be more "autistic" by large
You are so naive to the massive amounts of autism that come from Transformers collectors.
There's no doubt 1/18 draws in the crazies, but NOTHING acts like a beacon for autists like Transformers. They're the original fidget spinners.
So is Siege just the unofficial GI Joe video game ?
Basically G.I.Joes worst enemy is the fans theres this hardcore group of Autists who demand that the line not move past lets say 85-86 and anything that goes against that notion is either ignored or hated.
>show them proof that the 90's figures sold just as well as the 80's
Buh NEON!
> Remind them that Sigma six was extremely popular outside of the fandom but but was bulldozed by the shear amount of 25th product moved
S6 sucked and didn't even make it past three years.
And right now Aubrey's run is being targeted for the amount of "Not MUH" it's generating but it's genuinely makes Joe work as a concept in the modern age. now Sittersons run isn't perfect but he's the best writer Joe has had since Van Lente and I Think thats because they understand what makes joe work it's not a pure military thing it needs dash of wierdness and sci-fi to make it stand out. if not it's just a generic military themed thing
No but Overwatch is
as for the Duke and Flint argument. Duke is the all American tough guy and works well as the teams moral compass. Flint is the cocky arrogant badass they conflict but they understand and have each others back but they will beat the shit out of each other if needed.
>Overwatch
Sorry but Siege is a way better candidate than that blizzard bullshit. Each Operator in Siege is a military person that have a special snow flake backstort andthat wicked accessory they use in the field.
Fair but Overwatch uses the idea of a large global organization of millitary specialists, Ninja, Cowboys, and bleeding edge tech to fight a group of super villain themed terrorists.
Both work but which one sounds more in line with G.I.joe?
Rainbow 6 is the idea of the worlds military organizations team up to take down terrorists with cutting edge military technology.
Its He-man Syndrome, the old fanbase eats the young.
Would the polar opposite be called Voltron Syndrome since Legendary Defender has overshadowed the original by miles?
Not really, the original voltron will always have some pop culture appeal, and while the new show has a good following it'll never be as popular as the original was. We;ll have to see in a few years how it holds up. Voltron has had a lot of failed revivals.
Bump
>Resolute was great though
Only CC's speech was great
youtube.com
everything else was shit especially "action"
this wouldn't be allowed nowadays
>left wing
>Australian
>built up anger and frustration
Kek
There is a guy who creates own post-apocalyptic custom figures
>My Joeverse Summary -200-300 years in the future, Cobra, an ancient secret society whose list of historic leaders/Cobra Commanders include Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Ghengis Khan, and Hitler, finally succeed in taking over the world through the massive use of nukes. Survivors of that nuclear holocaust find themselves cast into a future dark age under fuedal law with Cobra dominating every aspect of their lives. It's a high tech cyber punk industrial wasteland world. For those who choose not to live as a subject of Cobra, their only choice is to escape into the Badlands, vast areas of nearly uninhabitable wasteland, where they live as outlaws, bandits, pirates, and or freedom fighters.
Would this work as a show?
>show them proof that the 90's figures sold just as well as the 80's
that's actually because in the 90's new market was opened, post communist countries
and actually there were a lots of awesome looking figures like my fav Heavy Duty
so harley quinn ripped buzzer off?
>Wild Weasel
The guys that make the skimpy bikinis?
>luck
Ain't nothin' to do with luck, OP. Hasbro is consistently shit with its properties, it's lucky when they get something right.
>GI Joe, Oiuja, Battleship, MLP (prior to G4), Strawberry Shortcake, Monopoly
They just have no idea what the fuck they're doing and they've been completely coasting on brand recognition for decades.
Imagine if people DIDN'T like the 'splosion-fest of Transformers movies, it'd be the exact same shit, a dead franchise.
They got lucky with Transformers and MLP, but in general they're a bunch of incompetent idiots.
>diamond-toothed chainsaw
If they're going for realism it should be a diamond-grain-covered chainsaw belts. There's nothing stopping them from grinding through armor plates. The only thing is that it'll have to spin extremely fast and have some very good cooling.
Then again what the fuck does a sociology researcher know about engineering.
it's ok when you use that chainsaw on dogs
The guy who stole dinosaur fossils so Cobra Commander could make Jurassic Park.
>Then again what the fuck does a sociology researcher know about engineering.
this maybe be shocking for you but actually back in the old days college people were more educated in all fields than nowadays
>I think Renegades worked but all the "Not muh" fags got butthurt especially since it was more A-team and less military
Ironically that's why I liked it. It just made the episodic formula work better. Also I thought Jinx was cute. really wish it got a longer run.
Still at least it got an ending. Of sorts.
Because U.S. patriotism isn't what it used to be.
Back when G.I. Joe first aired in the 80's?
The overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens were very gung-ho
>"U.S.A. Number 1, all other countries suck, we're the best, sorry you suck so much everybody else! FUCK YEAH ARMED FORCES! WOO! OH SAY CAN YOU SEE, BY MOM'S APPLE PIE, AND GIANT ASS TITTIES THE ENVY OF EVERYONE ELSE! MCDOOOONALDS! YEAH!"
Anyone who lived within U.S. boarders that disagreed with this sentiment was readily called a communist, or told to go fuck off back to their country with little to no repercussions because equally patriotic cops would always side with the patriotic party over the death to America party.
The average kid looked up to the average soldier because their parents did. Kids had no idea what wars or why were being fought or any of the gore filled details. All they knew is that their parents looked up to these people as heroes, so they looked up to them as heroes.
G.I. Joe thrived in that in that era.
But it's been getting more and more muddied since the mid-90's or so. Especially in the last decade and some years.
Now you're just as likely to find someone jaded towards the government, military, and patriotism in general as you are to find someone who shares the patriotic sentiment of yesteryear.
9/11, all the shit going down in the middle east that followed and is still ongoing, the advent of social media showing the occasional soldier acting like a fuckhead causing it to get widespread attention, and pictures of crying refugee children have split viewpoints right down the middle, and then filled the middle with a thousand conflicting emotions.
Nobody agrees on anything anymore. Patriotism is seen as both a good thing and toxic depending on how you wish to express it, and who you choose to express it to in any given way.
G.I. Joe can't thrive in this. Not as a property for children.
>Rainbow 6 is the idea of the worlds military organizations team up to take down terrorists with cutting edge military technology.
This is literally Overwatch.
The only real difference is that Rainbow 6 is G.I. Joe classic, while Overwatch is Renegades.
...
Yeah, no.
GI Joe was a bigger franchise than Transformers back in the day. It always had a bigger kid and even and adult following.
The biggest reason Transformers stuck is because of Japan continuing the line, so Hasbro always had something cheap to sell. This also meant there were other cartoons running selling the name in more than one country.
The fact that the main characters were always Optimus Prime and Megatron also helped in selling the line, because those names are always recognizable, even if their vehicle/animal mode was not.
So Transformers was always a constant. The 80s, 90s, and 00s had Transformers running in some form every year
GI Joe has reinvented itself a few times, but that meant rebooting everything about it. So there was a time that there was no Snake Eyes or Cobra Commander to gain attraction. And since only Hasbro was making GI Joe, that means it fell off the face of the earth before each reboot.
So you had GI Joe in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. GI Joe was huge in the 80s, but it died in the 90s. There was nothing GI Joe in the media for years and years, so it's no shit that its fanbase was left to only its aging fans. GI Joe didn't get a proper reboot and marketting again until 2003. So there was a pretty large gap between the Dic series on the new GI Joe continuation.
GI Joe Extreme did no one a favor by having no relation at all with the 80s GI Joe.
tl;dr: marketing a product every year is smart.
This is why I think the ideal reboot of GI Joe for the modern age would involve the team learning that the US government and COBRA are in the same pocket of a cabal of shadowy international financiers, and basically go rogue at the end of the first season. Portray them as the last idealists left in a state military apparatus that's rotten to the core. People could get behind that.
...
I like how Cobra doesn't really change except for the smiley faces... and Cobra Commander being all green.
Ah, I see you never read the comics, where Cobra was Larry Hama making fun of American right wing imperialism, particularly in its McCokeMart form.
I honestly surprised that we never got a GI Joe/Captain America team up.
it's weird because Transformers teamed up with Spiderman
Well Transformers was apart of 616 for the first few issues, IIRC.
>TFW we never got Cap driving Optimus Prime while Baron Von Strucker or Red Skull tries to shoot him with Megatron.
...
There was an issue of GI Joe where J Jonah Jameson showed up to berate a newsstand for not carrying the Bugle.
I wonder how would Cobra Commander would be seen on the 616 world stage.
...
Cobra: The Positive Thinking Terrorists
Transformers succeeded even before the movies, by constantly reinventing itself. As did MLP before the reboot.
the 90's had such great characters and ideas Wish we'd get more homages to them.
>BRRAPP
heh