How is it, despite numerous successes (PPG, Horse Show, Kim Possible, Star Vs)...

How is it, despite numerous successes (PPG, Horse Show, Kim Possible, Star Vs), executives STILL believe in the idea that shows with girl protagonists don't sell?

What the fuck needs to happen for them to finally ditch that mindset?

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>What the fuck needs to happen for them to finally ditch that mindset?

They haven't? Steven Universe and Star Vs. probably have the biggest fanbases of any current shows, and no I don't care what anybody says Steven Universe is a girls show

Yes, but Steven Universe quite clearly started off without Steven, with Sugar only making Steven the focus to get greenlit.

I don't go in for this tumblr gender bullshit, but there are a lot of people that worked for CN that said the amount of shows with female MC's that get greenlit are few to none.

the crux of the issue is the belief that cartoons, and by extension the toys they are advertising, are more profitable when segregated into 'for girls' and 'for boys' since it means you can double down on targeting the demographic each block is aimed at. they don't want there to be much overlap because they don't want girls tuning in during the time of day where they are blasting all the ultra machismo action figure ads and they don't want boys tuning in when they are blasting their barbie sparkle girlpower ads, because they fear they'll just change the channel rather than wait for the commercial break to end

with the rising market of on-demand services, one might hope this would change, although probably via google style advertisement curators that track what you watch, profile your interest, and only show the kids ads they think will appeal to them.

Steven is a boy protagonist though.

It's the same thing with Loud House, a million side girl characters, but it stars a boy. That seems to be the main way to slide past the radar for some reason.

There's also the double standard of people are fine with girls wanting to grow up to be Captain America and dress up as Superman, but are afraid boys won't do the same for Wonder Woman coupled with the fact that a lot of parents are afraid of their little boys dressing up as girls in case it might "turn into" something. Or maybe they're afraid the other kids will beat them up, but I don't know if bullying is an epidemic that plagues 6 year olds.

>still see those statues in Local Comic Shops every now and again
Really should just pick up THICC Kara at this point

Steven is based on her brother. He's always been a huge part of the show. Right down to the drastically different pilot.

yeah, whered this rumor about creating steven to appease higher-ups come from?

its called STEVEN UNIVERSE ffs

I don't know if that's true or if it isn't, but in either case having a male protag doesn't make it a show targeting males right off the bat

I can't think of anything about Steven Universe that is appealing to young boys, Steven is about ten times more femme than Spike the dragon and the show clearly caters to females, not saying that's a bad thing either, but it's no Beast Wars or Batman TAS

From what I've seen Steven Universe is about a femme boy, strong girls who are the real heroes, and pastel colors and cutesy SOL awkwardness....it's a "girl show" even if Steven is the title character, the support characters are more important than him anyway it seems to me from what I've seen

>I can't think of anything about Steven Universe that is appealing to young boys
its a show about a lazy but well-meaning kid who just want to eat food and hang out with his friends, fighting monsters an getting roped into an intergalactic war
pretty typical kid hero for a boys show

Because, let's face it: female characters just aren't as interesting as male ones. Not even trying to start shit about why that is, but it's a fact.

He's a fucking pussy the likes of which Shinji Ikari would find grating

boys these days are different from when you were young, user

I disagree.

How the fuck do you make a remotely realistic action show with a female protagonist? Girls are slow and weak, and just giving them (and not the guys) superpowers to overcome that turns them into Mary Sues.

Nice argument you got there.

i hope this is bait

I wasn't trying to argue?
That person said it's a 'fact' and I disagree with that.
Not everything is an argument. Get off the Internet for a while.

Because executives are idiots who only care about short term profits

Why would it be bait?

name changes happen, user

because you sound like youre trying to provoke idiotic arguments

see: you pretending to be someone else in this same thread

>pretending to be someone else
I'm sorry, what? I'm not pretending to be anyone.
Nor am I trying to provoke anyone, for that matter.

I guess you're just a moron, then.

If I'm a moron, what does that make you?

...

>PPG, Horse Show, Kim Possible, Star Vs
Thing is, how many years apart were those?

No more further apart compared to other hit shows (Rugrats, Spongebob, Adventure Time, Loud House). A hit cartoon in general only happens every couple of years.

I only listed popular because the point was that they COULD make money and that a hit cartoon was not exclusive to just boy heroes. I wouldn't be able to prove the point if I listed stuff like Hi Hi Puffy, The Buzz on Maggie, Pepper Ann, Miraculous Ladybug, Atomic Betty, Juniper Lee, etc.

>people posting on this board actually believe this baseless lie regurgitated by tumblr-shitters

>executives STILL believe in the idea that shows with girl protagonists don't sell?

Except they don't? They literally changed the sex of the Mysticons because girls sell.

lostmediawiki.com/Mysticons_(lost_original_version_of_animated_series;_2013-2015)#Development

And The Modifyers got passed up because they weren't interested in a girls show while Fanboy & ChumChum and Breadwinners got greenlit.

And Super Best Friends Forever and Princess Amethyst got passed up in favor of Steven Universe because Faust said "the network only wanted one girls show, and they chose Steven".

And Twelve Forever and Infinity Train seem like they're getting passed up on because of the failure of nuPPG.

All my favorite characters growing up were female, so I don't know what to tell you.

>"lost"
>in development by a studio

This wiki is so retarded in its definition of "lost".

By that definition, every yet-unreleased movie that's still in development is "lost".

Fucking retards.

The correct definition of "lost media" is media that has been released to the public but has no known surviving copies.

Any other media is simply either "unreleased" or "rare".

When idiots stop letting idiots in charge(reddit, tumblr, jews/turks/indians) of multi-million and multi-billion franchises.

With how low the bar has been set by these mental defects, I myself could create a bunch of high-standard cartoons and get the sweet 10x bonus gains because everyone is so used to being fed shit. But I don't have that kind of money to start my own cartoon shows.

it should be illegal for people over fifty to not retire

Instead you post memes and make excuses while the people you previously mentionned worked and got a position where they wanted

Imagine being this deluded.

>executives STILL believe in the idea that shows with girl protagonists don't sell?
Apparently the do because DC Superhero girls is pretty fucknig popular

Never seen the show but holy shit does that look stiff as fuck. Also
>Harley
>Hero

Were they desperate for girl superheroes or something and just start converting to fill the list? One of the biggest appeals to people is that Harley is a bad girl.

harley = suicide squad = hero = toys for markerting.

When you have a toyline whose entire gimmick is DC characters reinvisioned as Barbie dolls, you want to make sure the characters you choose are easily identifiable as DC characters (and the obscure character slots were already filled by diversity picks). That didn't really leave them many options for front-runners, so they had to resort to using Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy to fill out the roster.

>There's also the double standard of people are fine with girls wanting to grow up to be Captain America and dress up as Superman
I don't think girls should do this. Just like I don't think boys should dress as female characters.

The creators of the series joke about that and say it all goes downhill for harley after high school

Horse show and Star Vs are airing simultaneously so...Can't be that much.

There's also the Disney Princess lineup and all those Monster Girls stuff. Girls buy toys.

It's totally about marketing and selling toys / clothes, etc. Which is kinda sad because the idea of toys being specifically for boys or girls is a relatively recent thing - like 80s-early 90s recent. Before that toys were just toys - action figures were called dolls and it was okay for boys to have them. It's just taking a long time to unlearn the bad lessons of the 80s because a lot of business are still in that era mentally.

>, but it's a fact.
We need to run this through the scientific method before it can even come close to being a fact. too bad not even sociasl scientists will do studies on what type of fictional arc types people like.

>action figures were called dolls and it was okay for boys to have them
This is absolute bullshit. They were called dolls, yes, but they if you were a boy and had Raggedy Anne or Andy you get your ass kicked, were called faggot and nobody cared.

So did those ideas rise as a result of more and more people graduating with business-related degrees, or did it naturally stem from observation of following trends throughout the 40's - 70's and seeing things like Star Trek or comic books mostly having a male audience?

>And Twelve Forever and Infinity Train seem like they're getting passed up on because of the failure of nuPPG.
The main reason why nuPPG is failing isn't because it's a girl's show, dingbat.

You're looking in the wrong place. It's not that she shows don't sell, it's that the show MERCHANDISE doesn't sell. And the show merchandise doesn't sell most often because it's either not toyetic enough or they don't have the right cast to support a toy line.
And the reason for this is simple. Not enough villains.
Look at GI Joe. You have a billion Joes, but you also need abillion Cobra guys. Autobots and Decepticons are a 50/50 split. TMNT? Four turtles, and yes, you give them different outfits and tanks and shit, but you also have to have those foot soldier figures.
Girl protagonists aren't the problem. The problem is the antagonists they're paired with, or the lack thereof. And that's never going to change because the mindset of is to create role models for young girls. Which is noble, but it means they tend to overlook the bad guy.
And you NEED a good bad guy. Star Wars would have been overlooked from day one if not for Vader.

Yes, we know that.

But execs aren't that smart.

It's funny because Lego Friends/Elves sells. Turns out lots of girls like girly shit, what a surprise.
No one's preventing girls from buying normal legos anyway.

When I was growing up, it was pretty normal for boys to have something like a Cabbage Patch Kid or Andy doll laying around the room somewhere. Nobody really gave each other shit about it, because we'd all gotten one as a gift at one point or another. We'd mostly just let them lay around the room unless we needed a giant to attack the action figures.

The successes are seen as flukes, while the failures are taken to speak for the entire concept of a girl-oriented show.

Except the occasional strict parent.

I think youre onto something

I had a puppy stuffed animal, it's literally still around somewhere. That's a bit different than a kid playing with dolls which was much more contemptible.

You wouldn't call you friend out if you saw a pile of laundry in his room and there was a cum stain on a sock or something. You would absolutely call him out if you saw a shit stain.

Just look at Harley and Ivy can't be evil, they have to be role models too for some reason. And it's not the lack of options, because you could just stick Hawkgirl or Raven or Starfire in those spaces, couldn't you? Or hell, Catwoman? at least there's some precedence for her being an anti-hero there.

Without a strong antagonistic cast, or at bare minimum, character, there's no real conflict. Which is why girl shows have the stigma of being slice of life comedies about friendship where are's no stakes. The protagonists are often derided as mary sues not because of what they're doing, but because they aren't going up against anything well crafted or threatening.

It's a kids' show, the bad girls gets to be slightly naughty instead of full-on mass mudering fuckheads. I'm sorry you don't get enough edge along with your pedophile jollies watching kids' cartoons, but it's not made for you.

There are antagonists in the series. Female Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Giganta, Eclipso, and a school run by Sinestro

Damn there's some serious projection in this post I'm a bit worried the next time you open your mouth a movie is gonna play.

And yet he's accomplished more then Shinji could ever hope to achieve.

Is it enough tho?

Fuck off back to your hole, Byrne.

>female protags don't sell
Tell that to the anime industry.

>Look up developmental names for SU.
>They all have Steven's name in them.

Proving once again that it's okay when Japan does it.

That's not true though, it hasn't been true for years. There are plenty of shows with girl protagonists.

You're a part of the problem.

You want three separate autistic wikis instead of just one?

I was the intended audience only four years ago, it's not possible for kids to change that much.

>
> It's a kids' show, the bad girls gets to be slightly naughty instead of full-on mass mudering fuckheads.
When I was a kid they killed Optimus Prime so that you knew that shit got real.

>You wouldn't call you friend out if you saw a pile of laundry in his room and there was a cum stain on a sock or something. You would absolutely call him out if you saw a shit stain.

What the fuck, you are a terrible friend. That is the exact opposite of what you should do. Cummies are funny, shit stains are not.

Name me ten currently airing cartoons with a girl protagonist, because I can easily name you ten with a boy.

We Bare Bears
Loud House
Pickle and Peanut
OK KO
Steven Universe
Harvey Beaks
Clarence
Lion Guard
Milo Murphy's Law
Future-Worm

And this is without me having to fall back on superhero shows, shows that are 5+ years old, or duo protagonist shows where a girl and a boy share the spotlight.

All kinds of boys had Raggedy Andys. Look at the My Buddy line, that was during my lifetime. Which leads me to believe that you were either someone who was bullied as a kid by an absolute dick, or you were the dick doing the bullying and are trying to justify it.

The trend was in part that because girls like certain things and colours, people thought that was ALL they liked. The Friends line from Lego is actually a good example despite what you might think, because they've actually done their research and found that many girls want nice pastel colours. But they also made sure not to create a totally different product - it still interconnects with their other legos. Some girls want those pastel colours and to be able to make tree houses and stuff, but many also want to be able to take those same bricks and use those colours to make a badass pirate ship with a female captain.

The problem isn't making stuff more masculine for boys and feminine for girls, but rather declaring that this stuff is only for one sex and the other isn't allowed to play with 'em.

From what I've read sci-fi and comics hasn't had a traditionally more male audience, but the male audience was more vocal, which shifted marketing to cater to that audience and in part pushed female audiences away. Look at pictures from the 50s and 60s of kids reading comics, there's always girls there reading them too, kids swapping comics. Yeah there were gendered comics back then, cowboys vs romance ones, but they weren't really seen as something being for boys or for girls, just for kids.

Didn't Sugar already debunk it?

>And Twelve Forever and Infinity Train seem like they're getting passed up on because of the failure of nuPPG.
It takes YEARS for a show to get from a pilot to an official announcement.

Also, Twelve Forever sucks and doesn't deserve to be greenlit.

>the people you previously mentionned worked and got a position where they wanted
Getting a job with a TV network has far more to do with connections than actual competence. Animation is even worse because there are less positions available. Competence makes up maybe about 20% of the process.

Is Star Vs. actually a hit cartoon with kids though? or is it just something Sup Forums dwellers are obsessed with?

You are a goddamn idiot OP, you think Executives even botther to watch the shit that their company produces? they were educated and pampered in bullshit all their life and they get invited to interracial gay orgies in yachts all the time so they don't even glance or want to hear anything that has to do wit that crap.

I'm glad they have this idea because all of those shows are awful.

It does very well on digital and streaming platforms. Disney has not release official numbers, all they said is combined with Milo Murphy's Law, the entire series has over 100 mil views. This was around the first season that made them decide to renew Star for a second and third before the second had even finished production.

Then you can't be any older than 15. Underage b&

Thanks, finally someone says it.

>all they said is combined with Milo Murphy's Law, the entire series has over 100 mil views
>the entire series
>100 mil views
If you're going by TV standards, that's nowhere near a hit show. Bravest Warriors, a YouTube cartoon that most of Sup Forums (let alone normies) hasn't even heard of, has about that many views across the entire series.

>It does very well on digital and streaming platforms.
Nobody gives a shit about those because they barely make any money compared to cable TV.

And on cable TV, SVTFOE is a massive flop.

But Batman and Superman have to be adults no matter what

>Nobody gives a shit about those because they barely make any money compared to cable TV.
DisneyXD is literally able to sustain itself far better than CartoonNetwork BECAUSE they know how to keep up with the times of digital platforming.

Also Netflix says hi.

>Supes can't be a teen, too
Did I just daydream up Smallville or something?

I thought that only applied to live action movies. Cartoons "for girls" have had repeated successes, but I can't think of the last popular live action movie with a strong female protagonist before Wonder Woman, unless they're all hallmark movies about empowered women, because the last "girl power movie" before that I can think of is fucking ghostbusters

>DisneyXD is literally able to sustain itself far better than CartoonNetwork BECAUSE they know how to keep up with the times of digital platforming.
You're a fucking moron, XD simply has far better shows. Even garbage like SVTFOE is better than pretty much all of CN's current turd shows combined, let alone a gem like GF.

Also, using CamelCase like that makes you look retarded.
>Also Netflix says hi.
Netflix is still irrelevant compared to TV networks, sorry to break it to ya.

Did you even read it the post

I sometimes wish the moderators and executives that meddle so much could speak their story. You have to remember when you read these things that there are tons of times the executives, producers, and moderators change things and we don't hear about it unless the writers complain

>a gem like GF.
AHAHAHA

>How the fuck do you make a remotely realistic action show with a female protagonist?
Someone can't actually be this retarded can they?

Wrong side of the issue to be in.

I think Gotham might have also been a dream