Why did everyone hate Dan Didio? Was he the reason The New 52 was such a mess? He seems to have a good standing now

Why did everyone hate Dan Didio? Was he the reason The New 52 was such a mess? He seems to have a good standing now

Other urls found in this thread:

transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Dan_DiDio
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

He started meddling with fan favorite characters and he kept a couple grudges going with a few big creative types, which kept them away from DC for nearly a decade. He's in good standing now because he's on the business end of things, not the creative end.

He wanted to kill Dick. That's all it takes really.

>b-but what about the easily memed Countdown quote

that's just fun to bring up, didn't change anyone's mind

He had a personal agenda and was really disorganized.

He killed Steph and made Cass evil. And a bunch of other stuff people talk about, but that's why I hate him. On the other hand, he actually apologized for the n52 when Rebirth was announced, and public apology at that level of corporate is almost unheard of, so I can't hate him too much anymore.

He was also a total jerk about 52 vs Countdown.

>He was also a total jerk about 52 vs Countdown.

Not really. 52 was an editorial shitshow and everyone on it agreed. To be a jerk there has to be an injured party.

>He was also a total jerk about 52 vs Countdown.
No he wasn't, you just take things out of context.

People hated him for "One Year Later" and N52. Most of the sins of those times are being addressed though so people aren't screaming Didiot as much anymore.

Okay, I'm willing to listen. What's the context for "Countdown is 52 done right"?

There wasn't insanely hellish for Editors to manage?

He made a bunch of shitty statements around the time of New 52 when fans complained about shit.

He definitely fixed shit later on, but early New 52 was a special kind of hell.

>he killed Steph

What's the issue here?

Not him but we can start with the fact that they didn't massively change the plot due to a rambling Scotsman without telling anyone (though one could argue maybe they should have).

The production behind 52 was basically like a frathouse. It was a miracle.

He meant that in terms of organization and editorial oversight, NOT the final product. It's basically a miracle that 52 was decent and his quote is reflecting that

52 was originally conceived to explain what happened during the "One Year Later" year.

Instead, it ended up focusing on four characters that no one really cared about up until 52 happened (with the exception of Ralph), explained NOTHING, and ended up leaving more questions than answers.

I'm pretty sure people cared about Renee, at least if they read Gotham Central or liked BTAS.

>He had a personal agenda and was really disorganized

This

And he also fostered the personal agendas of others (such as Johns hate boner for letting Parker or Morrison or anyone else interested in doing Billy do an ongoing for Captain Marvel, and the Flash/GL Rebirth shit, predominantly it's aftermath).

>Not the Creative End
>One of the guys behind the Hanna Barbera Line.
Sure, it was basically luck he got Russell on Flintstones and Parker+Shaner on Future Quest but it was a pretty nice diversion from the usual cape shit.

I think he disliked how Dick is basically just always under the shadow of some guy and felt there was no loss on him dying, I mean he was the one who pushed for Grayson which fucking finally let Dick do his own thing.

Stephfags, like the character. Are also cancer.

Flash Rebirth was Sciver. Geoff planned to get back to Wally and even had some Wally stuff already done but the push to New 52 made him abandon them.

> He killed Steph and made Cass evil. And a bunch of other stuff people talk about, but that's why I hate him. On the other hand, he actually apologized for the n52 when Rebirth was announced, and public apology at that level of corporate is almost unheard of, so I can't hate him too much anymore.

Same here. Though I did admire his devotion to keep smaller comics afloat like Jonah Hex and Blue Beetle.

>Sciver

According to the interviews he did then and does now, he worked collaboratively with The Cereal Lord, so not sure what you are blaming him for?

And yes, I am aware of the Wally stuff. The point is, as co-publishers (and I also think Harras is an untalented writer and worse as an EIC and shares in the blame here as well, but the job of the publisher(s) at a place like DC is to work with the EIC and the group editors and make sure that these things get done by the individual assistants, writers, artists, etc.

Didio gave two fucks about Wally (if he did, Titans might not be the walking disaster it is and/or Wally might have his own book) and couldn't be fussed to do anything, Johns didn't make it a priority the same way Shazam isn't a priority but that doesn't mean he acts or is concerned about the fall-out (e.g. no ongoing for Billy, squat for Wally until it, like so many other post-rebirth decisions, was forced on DC by sales, demand, etc.)

>According to the interviews he did then and does now, he worked collaboratively with The Cereal Lord, so not sure what you are blaming him for?

It was Sciver who pushed for Flash Rebirth. Johns planned Flashpoint but he wasn't the one who decided it should be an event. Same thing, he's just the guy who was made to script it. That's what I read anyway but I can't find source on it now so I guess it doesn't really matter.

>Didio gave two fucks about Wally (if he did, Titans might not be the walking disaster it is and/or Wally might have his own book) and couldn't be fussed to do anything, Johns didn't make it a priority the same way Shazam isn't a priority but that doesn't mean he acts or is concerned about the fall-out (e.g. no ongoing for Billy, squat for Wally until it, like so many other post-rebirth decisions, was forced on DC by sales, demand, etc.)
Wally and Billy still don't have ongoings, what do you even mean.

And about Titans. They placed Abnett on it and he proved to be pretty good before so you know they at least tried. Abnett having to balance pleasing Wally Fags and pleasing people who actually want a Titans TEAM book and editorial probably blocking most plot hooks (Wally and Linda reuniting). Like fuck, there's always autists complaining how there's too much focus on Wally or how there's not enough focus on Wally.

His saving grace is his respect for Kirby's legacy and letting books that are otherwise failures but good last

The fact you didn't properly close the parenthesis is triggering me.

He wasn't talking about the quality of the book. He meant it from the creative and editorial pov. 52 ended up being good by accident, since half the time (keep in mind this was several writers around the country and world individually writing their own sections with editors trying to keep everyone on the same page each week) they had no idea where anything they were writing was going (it's super obvious with Kate Kane and WW3 that ended up needing tie-in one-shots just to explain why Batgirl went evil, why J'onn changed his appearance and went missing in OYL, etc.) and it failed spectacularly to deliver what was said to be its core premise.

It was so chaotic to make on a weekly schedule that there were few continuity errors that ended up in the final product, like when Johns delayed his Black Adam marriage storyline few issues but Rucka wasn't aware of it so when Renee arrives in Kahndaq, the wedding celebration on the city streets is taking place prior to the actual proposal happens in the book, iirc.

Or how Keith Giffen, who did the page layout breakdowns for the book, being a cheeky bugger jokingly drew Zatarra jr. in fishnets (thinking it was going to be removed from the finished page) and nobody in the editing process caught it until the page came back inked and someone finally went "hang on, why is he wearing stockings instead of pants, he's a teenage boy!"

He ruined Beast Machines.

He was the reason the N52 existed,he has wanted to reboot the DC universe for years, and as soon as he had the power to do so, he used that power without having any good idea what to do with a reboot.
Giving Jim Lee free reign with designing the costumes, and making his preferred pairings canon (SMWW) wasn't great either.
And he was set against any long term relationships in comics, in all the cases where Jim Lee didn't have a favorite pairing.

dude, he was Co-Publisher for years before the New 52. New 52 happened because of Pre-Emptive Movie Synergy.

New 52 happened because of increasingly shit sales and orders from above that they either fix a leaking ship or WB will hammer down.

He became co-Publisher in 2010. I wouldn't call that years. And he promptly coopted the Flashpoint storyline to make the new 52 happen

Because the majority, concerning anything, is retarded.

>I'm pretty sure people cared about Renee, at least if they read Gotham Central or liked BTAS.
Son, let me tell you the story about didio making Renee gay as part of a massive kiekkaku that tied batwoman, gotham central and 52 together as well as using two-face as a bigoted mouthpiece to take a jab at chuck dixon.
four years spent building a romance/redemption subplot between renee and Two-Face and dis nigga sinks my ship for the lulz. Then has the audacity to make gayrenee the best part of batwoman, gc and 52. I'm still salty.

It's just too bad that Countdown looks like it was written without any kind of oversight whatsoever.

And I'm not even talking about quality of story and its ties to Final Crisis, but stuff like jumping from event to event and back.

>with a few big creative types, which kept them away from DC for nearly a decade
Who? Waid and Rucka? Both giant babies and okay writers at best. With Rucka. Enjoy dogfucker.

Dan Didio himself said, he had wanted to reboot the DC universe since Infinite Crisis.
The order from WB was an excuse to do so

He keeps Giffen and DeMatteis employed, so that's something.

Which is good because I love those guys. Pair them with Howard Porter and I'll buy anything those fuckers put out, I loved Justice League 3000 and Larfleeze

Calm yourself, buddy. I was merely stating why he was so reviled. You don't burn bridges with some of the biggest names at DC at the time and not get some hate from the fans. I don't care one way or the other.

Sidenote: I've actually shaken Dan's hand before. He has a grip like a gorilla.

>In his spare time, Dan also enjoys ruining the DC Comics universe, where his current plan seems to be killing off every character you ever liked. Also, he was the one who cancelled ReBoot. There are rumors about him tackling Christmas next.

transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Dan_DiDio

Um. Rucka was the one who developed the relationship between Renee and Harvey, and he definitely intended to make her gay for a long time. It wasn't a change in direction.

imagine having it in for someone this much you edit an online wikia to shit on the person

The work of Willis, I assume?

Or is being this petty just standard for TF fans?

I remember DC insiders at the time saying it wasn't part of his original plan.

DeMatteis should be writing something more at DC, not just Scooby Doo with Giffen. But I guess all the writer spots are occupied y the Johns cronies.

You're right. He and Giffen are pretty much paired up de facto at this point. Kind of a clear consistency given he's also co-writing Blue Beetle.

He's definitely someone who could stand something more weighty. I wouldn't mind him on JSA Rebirth or something like that.

Scooby Doo is pretty good, I think, but it ain't gonna last much longer.

>Rucka
>not intending to make the hard boiled detective woman a lesbian at the first opportunity
LOL

I just want him on something magic. Like that upcoming Etrigan mini, I'd actually be excited for it that way. And I wouldn't mind some more Giffen Sugar & Spike, severely underrated series because it ran alongside the other aggressively mediocre stuff in Legend of Tomorrow.

Giffen's Sugar and Spike was such a good episodic format. Yeah it got incredibly buried.

There's some moves to reinvest in the magic side of DC coming up, hopefully he gets tapped for something there.

It seems like they've already given chances to a few characters I wouldn't have minded seeing him on/he hasn't worked on before like Etrigan, Ragman or Deadman. Actually, I'd say DC is trying to bury their magic side what with the creative teams they picked for those comics, their complete fumbling of Constantine and how he's getting writer change after writer change and the fact that they still want to push their shitty JLD idea(Trinity of Magic bullshit). Phantom Stranger will most likely be quietly retconned back to what he was before the DeMatteis run too.

That last bit is most definite and the greatest shame. He made that whole Judas shit work fantastically.

I'd read more of his take on Magic Question as well.

Yeah, shame the Trinity of Sin ongoing ended after just one arc, even Pandora was decent there. At least it got a tpb...
Thinking back at his Phantom Stranger, there were stuff he set up that he never got to do which is sad, but he still manages to make the series feel complete instead of "oh well, this got shitcanned". Speaking of which, I'm mad as fuck that they're wasting Blanco on Batwoman.

Came here to post this. He ruined Beast Machines (which is an okay show, but it's a terrible Beast Wars sequel).

I liked his Metal Men story in Wednesday Comics

Same

Under his watch DC has gone from the best universe in comics to a boring dumpster with a few embers in it.

I think you mean writers who sell just by their name.

None of them sell by their name. But if they did then that would be sad.

>the truth is "petty"

Face it Dan, you'll never live nu52 down.

I buy DeMatteis by the name alone. He's my favorite writer after Larry Hama.

The first arc of GC was already written didio got the job and rucka pitched him the idea. DC had hired Didio in the first place because didio had a plan to develop 'latent IP's'. AKA 52. Getting a shot to write your own B-list or C-list character was the hook Didio used to pull in a lot of guys.
And when Dixon got pushed out he accused Didio of using 'gimmick characters' to get the job. Enter batwoman. Didio goes to Rucka and tells Rucka he'll push Gotham Central if Rucka will tie in Batwoman and whatever character he decides to do for 52. And Rucka being Rucka comes up with GayRenee/question. And the rest is history.

Only faggots hated based Didio, he kept All-Star Western alive so I'll always be grateful for that

>Only faggots hated based Didio
This. Retarded waifugafs and continuity wanking event devouring turbo autists. And from what I'm seeing in this thread, he's also getting the blame for various writers writing badly.

Didio's ideas might not always be the best(not like there's a person that only has great ideas in this world) and sometimes the execution(not entirely in his hands here) might not be the best, but at least he's ambitious. He wants to push things forward, continue to innovate and create new classics and let the characters grow, but the majority of comic book readers are more interested in rehashes of old classics.
The man kept Jonah Hex alive for 70 issues, Gotham By Midnight was his idea and he told Fawkes to pitch for it, he put DeMatteis on Phantom Stranger... Besides, a man willing to personally fly to the asshole f the world to convince Grant Morrison to do All Star Superman will always be based.

I'll be the first to admit Didio made a lot of bold decisions and definitely tried to reintroduce some fun ideas e.g. weekly comics (52, Wednesday Comics), free giveaways (those Lantern Corps rings you could get during Blackest Night) and bringing back c-list heroes (Blue Beetle, Firestorm, Question, Jonah Hex).

However, for every cool idea he came up with, he seemed to balance it out with edgy bullshit aimed specifically at pissing off fans; Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis (especially turning Superboy Prime into a whiny villain as a cheap shot to fanboys), Countdown, his pathological need to have villains be SO much stronger and better than the heroes, his insistence on shitting over the JLI and other heroes he didn't like much...

Again, I'm not denying he did a lot of good, but his time as editor was defined by more than a little badly-written fanwank, and that has to be taken into account. When you're in charge, you have to accept responsibility for everything that happens on your watch, good and bad. Weird thing is, he's a pretty good writer on all those little stories he's done over the years, but when he's overseeing the whole show there's a bunch of little things that bug the hell out of me.

Then of course there's Eddie Berganza, who's just shit through and through.

Being the face of a company is going to get shit thrown at your no matter what. He's done some shit wrong, but he's also kept books alive that had no business staying on as long as they did because of a fan following.

I just hate him because he tried to kill Dick, and he wrote that abysmal All-Star Western story that crossed over with Blackest Night. Aside from those two things, I think he's done a pretty good jorb.

He kept Andreyko's Manhunter alive for a bit after it was cancelled twice. It still got killed ~30 issues in, but did have an extension, and a backup in Gotham Streets or whatever that was after it ended

The New 52 was a cynical corporate-driven reboot. I'm blaming WB more than I'm blaming Dan or Geoff or Jim. They wanted their movies really badly, and were breathing down DC's necks really hard.

He does that a lot. Puts his neck out for underselling fan favorites. Either because he knows that they have a strong following, or because the title has a special place in his heart like with Jonah Hex.

...

No one can say he doesn't have a sense of humor about himself.

All magicians should wear fishnets.
Including constintine and felix faust

Faust's son might actually wear them. He was supposed to be in that Suicide Squad mini that got delayed/cancelled because of "dr. endless"

> his insistence on shitting over the JLI
Does anybpdy have that picture of the JLI that lists all the crap Didio-era DC put them through? I remember it had "G'nort: KIA" and "Maxwell Lord: Evil" and all kinds of shit.

Pic sort of related, I'm pretty sure it used the image on the right

>G'nort: KIA

I don't think G'nort ever died but he certainly disappeared for a while after Emerald Twilight happened.

Totally agree actually, Didio does some good, but when he fucks up, he REALLY fucks up

this

To me the most important thing about Didio is that yes, he makes mistakes sometimes, but he almost always not only owns up to his mistakes but will give a heartfelt apology if he feels he has wronged writers or artists or fans, and then he will actually try to learn from his mistakes and do better in the future. That is an amazing thing that a lot of people don't appreciate about him.

Could you imagine Quesada or Alonso doing the same?

Blue Beetle sucked.

literally everone of DeMatteis'books have sold terribly. They even had a gag panel in JL3K with Larfleeze about how every book they written has been cancelled due to low sales.

That just proves what Sup Forums has known all along - the general public's taste sucks.

Yeah, this. DeMatteis' Fate is my favourite capecomic ever. I doubt much of the current new readers have even read it.

I doubt most old readers read it. Fate had the guise of being an Edgelord book due to the way Jared looked.

I meant dr fate, not fate.

My mistake

I wrote fate out of boredom, skipping the 'dr', it was not your mistake, user-chan.
Read dr fate by dematteis if you haven't.

His run on Spectacular Spider-Man was the best thing coming out when I got into comics.

There was a sad tweet the other day from him about how people only know him as a comedy writer, and are completely unaware that he has written a lot of dark and heavy stuff (like Kraven's last hunt)

Comedy? He does comedy? What comedy did he do beside Greenberg the Vampire? Everything I've read by him has been serious.

I like his run on Captain America even more than I like Greunwalds, and that's saying something.

Larfleeze, Scooby Apocalypse, and Justice League 3000 are action comedies, and those are some of his bigger comics the past few years

He and Giffen did Justice League International/US/Europe for ~9 years, which had a lot of comedic moments in it.

>Maxwell Lord: evil
is that guy still evil? has he appeared in any of the rebirth books? I remember he was at the JL vs SS book.
I really didn't like how he's seen as "evil mind control manipulator guy" these days, seems too cliche for me.

Because he can take it.

And Booster if they read JLI, and Steel if they were Death Era Superman fans (not to mention Lex being such a central figure to the story) or Black Adam if they liked Power of Shazam or Johns JSA, Animal Man from Morrison's run, the list just goes on and on, it was an excellent way to put some B-D listers in the spotlight. Basically that guy is a retard casual

This is exactly what I'm talking about, he gets more shit than he deseeves , gets blamed for shit other writers did. Hating JLI? Please, why doesn't Johns get shit for this? He's the one that wrote Infinite Crisis.

nearly everything from that list was from years prior to 52's publication

people don't realise these days that reprinting was much less common in that time, it was highly unlikely that a large amount of readers had read every single one of those stories, or if they did, there was a good chance they forgot due to it being so long ago

hell, the main reason ted dies is because he and booster had been so insignificant directly prior to infinite crisis that no one took his claims seriously

Second verse, same as the first... The editor's job is to help reign a writer in if they're being too stupid/edgy/ignoring continuity for no good reason

>especially turning Superboy Prime into a whiny villain as a cheap shot to fanboys

But Superboy Prime being a bitchy little comic fanboy is great!

I'm pretty sure Renee was outed like three years before Batwoman was even introduced

Ambush Bug: Year None is basically an entire mini series about ribbing on Didio's tenure at running DC, and he hadn't even been working there that long when it came out.

Yes and no. You're blaming him for the very ideas that the writers had and claiming it's his ideas. Editors in general have a wide range of titles under their belt and it always ranged from bad to amazing, okay maybe some haven;t edited amazing stuff but everyone's edited bad stuff and this has something to do with the fact that you don't wanna "keep the writer down" and be a control freak.

download link plz