Hey Sup Forums,
I rarely see the Vaccine topic discussed (if at all nowadays), and I am curious; are they actually harmful or is it a literal leftist nutjob meme?
If most of the world is already vaccinated and we've practically eradicated most of the illnesses we try to prevent, then what's the point of getting them?
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No, Vaccines are not harmful you moron.
Without them, I'd probably not be alive today and my mom probably would've died of Polio.
>rarely see
nigger we have this thread at least once a week, the fuck you on about
>then what's the point of getting them?
Why don't you ask the some kids whose parents didn't vaccinate them and it lead to them being the center of an outbreak measles or whatever? There's plenty such cases of anti-vaxxers causing outbreaks of easily-preventable mostly-eradicated diseases.
It's like asking "why does my house needs a fire alarm if all my neighbors have one?". That is a fucking stupid question. Of course you are much less likely to die in a massive fire if your neighborhood won't burn. Of course you should still get an alarm yourself in the rare chance that it's your house that burns.
Don't ask Sup Forums .. learn to do at least elementary research.. goto google scholar and search on vaccines + whatever harm you might have heard related to them.
(and yes, it is a literal nutjob meme, though im not sure if it is "leftist")
Not all vaccines are created equal, some are very important, provide immunity at high rates, and can last decades.
Others are ridiculous, have low success rates, or dependability periods of negligible value.
Some can even be tremendously harmful, such as the varicellla (chicken pox) vaccine.
Chicken Pox is extremely mild in children but potentially fatal in adulthood. The varicella vaccine has a very high efficacy and its duration typically lasts less than 20 years (allowing chicken pox to be contracted again at a later time when it is MUCH more dangerous) while an infection during youth approaches 100% lifetime immunity.
The vaccine also allows asymptomatic, but still infectious, carriers at a higher rate than natural immunity does. Combined with the limited immunity and deadly nature of adult varicella, this is a dangerous combination.
I could go on and on, but to wrap up perhaps the worst thing about the varicella vaccine is that it is now being included in the MMR vaccine. The MMR vaccine is (arguably) the most important vaccine for children to receive while Varicella is in the top 3 most dangerous.
All vaccines (or medicines or distinct topics in general) should be considered individually and weighed on their merits alone, not the merits of simliar drugs/ideas.
Anyone who believes all vaccines are good is a damned fool. Anyone who believes they are all bad is a scared fool.
I fear pro-vaxxers much more than I fear anti-vaxxers, however.
Know a guy that got seizures from swine flu vaccine (so the doc said) and he was just about to finish pilot training. Now he may never be a pilot.
It's understandable why people have lost sight of what vaccines have done for us. But just look at history, not too long ago they built entire treatment facilities just for tuberculosis.
>are they actually harmful
there is a negligible chance you get the disease from the vaccine since a vaccine is basically the virus but super weak so that your immune system builds up what is necessary to fight the disease. That's why some vaccines must be done every X years because your immune system actually forgets
Seen a news story that Germany deemed the type of flu vaccine we get in Ireland to be unsafe. So I don't get the flu vaccine that is offered here for free by my hospital.
Also vaccines do not come risk free. Adverse reactions are possible so I wouldn't take a vaccine I didn't need. I'm a young man. I am not at risk from a flu.
>If most of the world is already vaccinated and we've practically eradicated most of the illnesses we try to prevent, then what's the point of getting them?
Those diseases will return, instead of eradicating them for good.
Before vaccination and antibiotics cities could not grow naturally.
More people died from diseases then were born, and only influx from villages where diseases weren't so rampant allowed cities to grow.
FYI most people are not claiming that vaccination cause autism, they are claiming that modern drug companies are putting something into vaccines to experiment on the public/purposefully do harm. That's how they explain the relatively recent increase in autism.
I don't really believe it but honestly I haven't researched the topic extensively. It doesn't matter to me seeing as I won't be having children any time soon.
>vaccine is basically the virus but super weak
It's fragments of the virus.
A virus cannot be "weak" becasue it's not alive.
>are they actually harmful or is it a literal leftist nutjob meme?
The left says vaccines are safe and we should get them.
The right says vaccines are not safe and cause autism
I say we err on the side of vaccines. The diseases they prevent far outweigh the cocaine and alcohol your pregnant mother ingested that more likely caused your severe autism.
You can have attenuated live viruses and also deactivated viral material. Both are a thing.
many such cases
The fear for autism is due to a single research paper that indicated a link.
But the paper in question has since been retracted.
And many other studies have been conducted and none of them show any link whatsoever.
You can't get any more blue-pilled than injecting your kids with mercury, formaldehyde, and aborted baby fetus cells.
Not knowing about the CDC-coverup is beta. Watch Vaxxed to learn about it.
the author never retracted his claims. Watch Vaxxed to see the full story on CDC cover-up, including an insider who told the true story about suppressing data in the autism link.
>I fear pro-vaxxers
Does such a thing even exist?
That's like saying people enjoy abortions, or dentist visits.
I'm not an anti-dentite, but I don't obsess about going to the dentists either. - the less the better in fact.
Vaccines are mostly commonly cited to be the source of Autism, usually by left leaning individuals who are uneducated in regards to medicine, pharmacology or the mechanics of autism. This is mostly because of Jenny McCarthy, a former playboy model/host of the View/Actress, who's child was born with autism. In her effort to understand her son's diagnosis, she read a study which concluded that autism was caused by Thiomersal (a mercury based preservative). This study has long since been debunked in the medicinal and psychological communities, but the lasting effects of Jenny McCarthy's fame drove it deep into many people's mind. As such you have a large deal of gullible individuals spreading misinformation. This was then added on to by the various people who distrust big pharma/government in general.
So realistically, vaccines aren't harmful. But you don't need a vaccine for everything. Chicken pox is much safer to have during childhood than to risk having your vaccine run out at a time when it can prove fatal. Likewise you don't need a flu shot. However, Hepatitis or Polio is something you should get vaccinated against,
yes, here in CA they passed a law where your kids can't go to public OR PRIVATE school unless they get all 80 doses of toxic additives (vaccines themselves are mostly safe - it's the crap that they add that is killing our kids)
Vaccinepapers.org may be of interest to you.
>basing your opinion on a movie
How about I spin around the earth real fast to make time go backwards so you can undo that post - I've seen Superman.
Autism is not related to vaccines.
It's flat-earth bullshit tier
Except the movie actually has audio recording of William Thompson, who was one of the 4 authors of the study, saying they faked the results.
You should go back to watching cartoons, the big boys are talking here.
enjoy shingles
if you don't give your kid the MMR or polio vaccine you deserve to be shot. However, there are meme-tier vaccines like the flu shot that you can avoid getting.
Did you even read my post? The anti-vaccers believe the drug companies are out to get them, so why would they care about their studies?
Yes, there are people who unironically wish death upon the children of anti-vaxxers to "teach them a lesson".
There are people who draft, support, and enact legislation to make these medical procedures mandatory.
There are people filled with vitriol at the very thought of someone not giving their 9 month old daughter vaccines for STDs.
Pro-vaxxers are terrifying to me.
The problem with a study that incites fear in people against a proven and effective medicine like vaccines is that people will cover the study up for the greater good.
Science is not immune to cover ups. The people doing it may even have the best intentions at heart. I am not saying this definitely happened but that science is not immune. The man in the white coat does lie and politics is everywhere.
Just checking:
The same parents who are so against vaccines have no issues pumping their kids full of Ritalin or anti-depressants, right?
Nigger, there's less mercury in an MMR shot than children get breastfeeding.
Why do you feel like polio vaccines are necessary?
How old are you and do you have children?
That's a terrible straw man.
ironically you probably get about the same amount of mercury from adderol that you would get from an mmr shot
Breastfeeding feeding mothers pass mercury to their children? Can you back that up please?
if you dont get vaccinated how is the government suppose to spread aids and zika? dont you no nuffin
they haz machinations and they spent monies !they deserve to ruin lives!
>Science is not immune to cover ups.
Yes, it pretty much is though.
Any scientist in any country can conduct their own study to verify previous results.
And they do all the time.
I don't think it's a leftist thing, it's an idiot thing but not a leftist thing
consuming literally anything causes you to ingest small amounts of mercury. Its everywhere.
I highly doubt there is mercury in adderol and mercury isn't the sole adjuvant used in vaccines. Many vaccines contain other substances to enhance the immunogenic effect so many vaccines have no mercury at all. That doesn't mean they are entirely safe though.
There have been instances of gross incompetence like a batch ending up with traces of mercury in a preservative.
Honestly considering how advanced medicine is now, who gives a shit if you get sick. We need super viruses to kill aliens.
I don't agree with that.
>literal leftist nutjob meme?
no its the alex jones crowd mate
Funny how it only seems to be americucks that get autism, maybe you just have shit genes from all your hippie drug addict ancestors.
It was an ad hominem, not a straw man. ;^)
>If most of the world is already vaccinated and we've practically eradicated most of the illnesses we try to prevent, then what's the point of getting them?
so you don't get the disease you have been vaccinated against, these diseases live on in animals and some people and if you don't get vaccinated you very well might get the disease
if half of us didn't get vaccinated they would come back as human scourges overnight
>Traces of mercury by mistake.
No. Mercury is deliberately put in some vaccines as an active ingredient. Generally it's a negligible amount and safe for almost everyone.
>I don't agree with that
>irish intellectuals
read vaccinated
Here in the Netherlands autism is the most common around Eindhoven.
The city with the highest average IQ.
So clearly vaccines cause high IQ's....
>I fear pro-vaxxers much more than I fear anti-vaxxers, however.
ur stoopid
>yes, here in CA they passed a law where your kids can't go to public OR PRIVATE school unless they get all 80 doses of toxic additives (vaccines themselves are mostly safe - it's the crap that they add that is killing our kids)
>I'm not allowed to let my kid get polio
how horrible
even if that were true (it's not) injecting directly into your veins bypasses your body's natural immune system, whereas ingesting something orally has all of your natural immune system to protect you.
>shingles
Herpes zoster is more likely to be acquired after vaccination than a natural infection according to the CDC.
Why are pro vaxxers so uninformed about how vaccines work?
Oh wait, I answered my own question.
I got post viral sequelae from the second round of th HPV vaccine. Essentially it was incredible fatigue, numbness, migraines, IBS, and muscle pain for 18 months. I've finally started to get better. I was bed ridden for two weeks last year and had to nearly drop out of school and quit work. I was checked for MS, cancer, HIV, every neurotical, and immune disease under the sun and nothing came up. Eventually I figured it out when I saw a vita specialist. To make a long story short DO NOT GET THE FUCKING HPV VACCINE.
which is why sites like vaxtruth.org
Let me drop it to you guys straight.
This dudes paper was on 12 people. He bought a patent for individual components for a modified MMR vaccine which in his paper wasnt really anti-vax, but said that MMR at the same time caused damage to the intestinal lining because "the intestines cant handle that much virus". He stood to make millions off discrediting the MMR vaccine, and also patented a home-autism test kit that he predicted would make him millions until the day he died. All of these were planned before he even got the 12 people he cherry-picked, who were already mentally impaired before given vaccines, to do the "study" on.
>I don't think it's a leftist thing, it's an idiot thing but not a leftist thing
Here in the Netherlands it's mostly Christian fanatics who are against vaccinations.
They consider it messing with God's plan.
organic mercury still gets filtered out of the brain within like 2 weeks so they way it enters the body doesn't matter
You are making up contradictory behavior to make them easy to criticise. A straw man. You arnt just insulting them for who they are.
>Nighters are wrong because they are niggers!
Keep trying though.
Vaccination is bad cause it means more africans and Indians and SE Asians survive to adulthood. We need epidemics to wipe out those populations otherwise they will overpopulate the globe.
>tfw you personally met maurice hilleman
feels good man
Nobody has ever explained to be properly why vaccines do not effect the development of the synapses in the brain once the baby is born.
You wouldn't back up your claims. You just responded with more claims. I don't believe or agree with the claims you make.
>Nobody has ever explained to be properly why vaccines do not effect the development of the synapses in the brain once the baby is born.
why would they
do you want to get fucking polio?
Offit, Paul A. Vaccinated: One Man's Quest to Defeat the World's Deadliest Diseases. Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian, 2007. Print.
MLA 7 because fuck niggers
Not wanting to get polio is not an argument. I just want to know why it does not disrupt how the synapses are formed. I know the argument is that the brain is already formed once the baby is born. However the synapses are not connected yet.
>uninformed people supporting vaccines
Imagine my shock!
Vaccines are not magical, they do not prevent you from being a disease vector. Most vaccines temporarily improve immuno response and reduce symptoms, but does nothing to stop you from having or spreading a disease.
in some cases being asymptomatic can reduce the chance of transmission (in the same way a cough suppressant can reduce the spread of contagious respiratory disease) but does not eliminate the chances or often even reduce them as much a concious reduction of human contact that usually accompanies a noticed illness.
>Not wanting to get polio is not an argument.
but it really is though
nobody has explained to me why vaccines don't cause homosexuality or why they don't cause heart attacks, thus i remain skeptical
>which is why sites like vaxtruth.org
No, it's why sites like nejm.org and qjmed.oxfordjournals.org exist.
I suspect he is comparing the amount of mercury that people consume in a mercury rich diet (for example lots of seafood) to vaccines that don't use mercury as the adjuvant.
Which would easily fool someone with no scientific background.
Wow, I am so glad you responded to my opinion after I laid out all those facts you couldn't debate.
But since you literally can't argue with my facts without overthrowing my source, the CDC, why don't we pull on this thread instead.
For what reason would you consider me stupid for fearing pro-vaxxers more than anti-vaxxers?
He actually doesn't. Mercury is in EVERYTHING you eat and drink in small amounts.
I'm listening.
There it is right there. No immunologist fag can guarantee that it does not cause disruption to how synapses connect. If the argument is becasue polio is fucking worse then just say it but don't go saying they can not go cause other mental impairments when it is not known for sure ... Yes homosexuality is another mental disorder.
Everything is in everything in small amount's. Small is a very vague term.
Small amounts are also not an argument. Most drugs only have miligrams of active ingredients and have a profound effect
>Vaccines are not magical
did i say they were
we went from thousands and thousands of measles and polio cases per year down to only a few hundred unvaccinated people getting those diseases in the whole country despite the population tripling
seems to be working ok
i guess since disease cures are not magic we should not use them
at least iron lungs don't cause autism amirite?
I agree. It is a very vague term. But in this instance, "small" can be taken as meaning "greater than you get from a vaccine"
there also isn't exactly a tsunami of studies supporting your claim, so idk.
>There it is right there. No immunologist fag can guarantee that it does not cause disruption to how synapses connect.
you are just making shit up, we don't have to disprove every bullshit thing you make up
I didn't give my son vaccines. I am relying on the herd immunity. Yes, its selfish but fuck it I'm not going to take the chance. There is a confirmed, documented, non-zero chance of deadly consequences to every vaccine. It is not worth the risk.
Also I wouldn't call it a 'leftist' conspiracy. I am solidly alt-right
>You are making up contradictory behavior to make them easy to criticise. A straw man.
Again: that's an ad hominem, not a straw man.
A straw man is a weakened argument, which is easier to disprove than the original argument.
Kinda hard in this case, but if I said anti-vaxxers claim that vaccinations is the sole cause of autism and then show some un-vaccinated kids have autism proving this claim is false then THAT would be a straw man.
I'm mostly in support of vaccines. I do not support yearly flu vaccines. I want to see what effect it has on a generation before I agree to it.
Medicine gets things wrong on a regular basis. For example vaccination programs in North Africa resulted in massive spread of hepatitis.
I love how people keep bringing up polio.
Did you know that more than 70% of polio cases are asymptomatic? And that number inherently includes only those found by coincidence, in reality it is higher.
Did you know that less than 1% of all polio cases include some form of paralysis (usually temporary?
Did you know that adults being infected (such as when the vaccine wears off) are 6-8 times more likely to die than children?
I could do this all day. What the fuck do you know about polio? Why do you think it is so terrible?
Source:CDC
>don't go saying they can not go cause other mental impairments when it is not known for sure
it is known for sure we have given the vaccine hundreds of millions of times over several generations and studies have been done that show these vaccinated people don't get mental impairments more than other people, look it up
I would keep your kid the fuck away from swimming pools if I were you user
It is a perfectly valid concern you fucking amateur. Test the hypothesis and I think you will find the results alarming. Just like the CDC did. The aluminium as well can also cause disruption of synapse formation. Do not believe everything your liberal fag professors indoctrinate you with.
If all the other children are immune, how can such a child cause an outbreak?
>Did you know that more than 70% of polio cases are asymptomatic?
oh polio is not that bad ok got it
no, it's not
not in light of the fact there have been a million studies done and no evidence found
it's base unfounded fear
>test the hypothesis
nigger if convincing evidence was found that vaccines fuck up the brain they would stop giving them to children.
>liberal fag professors
no, I just read fucking books. Maybe you were vaccinated as a kid, considering how much of a retard you are.
It's not selfish.
The chance of the "herd immunity" failing and your kid dying from one of the diseases you refused to vaccinate against is very small but still much bigger than the chance of dying from a vaccine.
So it's just stupid.
>If all the other children are immune, how can such a child cause an outbreak?
some kids can't get the vaccines for various medical reasons
That's not an ad hominem. Criticising who they are isn't the core of your argument. You are making up fake behaviors.
Even if it effects just 1% of children sensitive to medications you would not know becasue it would not show up in studies that simply do correlations against large cohorts of people. Everyone responds differently to medication.
Even small numbers of people with the more serious side effects of polio are very damaging to families and society due to the amount of care they require.
i dunno but no leftist gonna stop me from pinning test-e lol
i'm the oldest of five siblings
we got vaccinated as kids
yet i somehow got chicken pox when i was in elementary school. just me, none of the others. their vaccines worked.
also i have aspergers, none of the other four do
checkmate, vaxxers