Who wins?

Who wins?

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Goku

Couldn't D.r Manhattan just snap his fingers and blink Bruce out of existence or something?

Also Bruce would be an old fucking man after 30 years while Dr. Manhattan would not have aged, at which point he'd just send Terry after him to die in his place.

No contest.

It depends if Dr. Manhattan would lose. If he's going to lose then there's nothing he can do about it.

This is why Sup Forums is the worst board.

> who wins?
> what is the X of Y?
> who was in the wrong here?

Get raped you fucking redditor

>Bruce asks his friend Zatana to erase Manhattan
>situation is solved in seconds, because supernatural forces > atomic manipulation - due to the fact that the supernatural is outside of physics.

Manhattan is just a big fish in a small pond. There are many DC characters and inventions that can deal with him.

What did he mean by this?

Batman somehow won against Darkseid, who has the very power of uncreation and eternal torment at his disposal. So, Batman wins via bullshit means.

Batman asks Flash to send him back in time ( I dunno how, but it'll work somehow) and stops Dr. Manhattan from being created.
Then he kills his own parents to become Batman again.

That sounds lovecraftian.

Dunsanian, even?

Batman wins after relaxing for 29 years.

Batman + mobius chair = untouchable

This is why, unless there's some kind of rug-pull and it's not Manhattan after all, The Button/Doomsday Clock is a stupid idea. Magic didn't exist in the Watchmen universe, but it does in the DC universe - and much like Superman, Manhattan can't do anything about it. Hell, Constantine could probably defeat him.

i guess we'll find out in doomsday clock. if it ever fucking comes out. seems like ive been waiting over a year for it.

How much prep time douse Dr. Manhattan get?

I keep hearing conflicting reports about that. Some say Batman got one hit in then got his fucking ass handed to him.

user, you know damn well they've given Manhattan a huge power up.

>effortlessly killed zoom and metron
>Mxy says Manhattan is more powerful then him

Zatana wouldn't have a chance.

>just as planed

Yea... right, just go back to

30 years is enough time for him to convince Dream or Lucifer or the Spectre or someone like that to tear the docs head off.

isn't this basically just what happened in the actual watchmen comic, except instead of Batman it's Ozy?(and it was technically a draw, as even though he couldn't kill Manhatten, he still completed his objective)

>Zatana wouldn't have a chance.

He does have a thing for brunettes though

>Zatana wouldn't have a chance.
She beat a guy who beat the spectre.

She could do it.

He WAS a big fish in a small pond. Rebirth Manhattan is clearly a lot more powerful than Watchmen Manhattan. The original one was incapable of stopping the Soviet nuclear arsenal from destroying America. Rebirth Manhattan can manipulate an entire multiverse.

Prep time is irrelevant to someone who experiences their entire timeline all at once. Manhattan wins.

Why don't people ever realize that this points to him being limited by whatever rules the universe he's in has?

A lot DC universes have the capability to produce much more powerful beings than the one Manhattan was originally from.

Explains why the knock-off in Superman Beyond could do what he did when they got to the monitor sphere.

The magic user is an object if physics and can just be disassembled. I fully believe that nothing beats Dr. Manhattan, not even Cosmic Armor Superman, teamed up with the Spectre, with Volthoom backing them up.

The ability to atomize anyone in the universe combined with the ability to do it yesterday is pretty much unstoppable, and that's not even the most he can do.

>I fully believe that nothing beats Dr. Manhattan, not even Cosmic Armor Superman, teamed up with the Spectre, with Volthoom backing them up.

>Sup Forums once again proves it does not read, let alone comprehend comics

Any of those three characters could crush manhattan with very little effort. Especially the Thought Robot.also, nice samefaggin

Still too early to make that claim. Cosmic Armor Superman was fucking ridiculous. It's a robot made out of literal plot armor that dwarfs universes and adapts to any threat.

It wasn't a samefag, I was adding to what I said before. Samefag is supposed to be a deception.

And no, if it occupies physical space and exists in space-time, Dr. Manhattan can beat it. His power level doesn't place on a scale, it's more like a binary state. He just does the thing, it doesn't cause him strain or effort or concentration or resources, and he doesn't have a limit on what he can do.

>not even Cosmic Armor Superman

Despite the fact that another version of Manhattan wouldn't even try to stand up to the guy the CA superman beat. Nice fucking joke.

Christ, are Manhattan fags the new Batfags?

Describe exactly what Cosmic Armor Superman would do to beat Dr. Manhattan? Because CAS is still physical, so I can tell you how Dr. Manhattan would beat him.

>if it occupies physical space and exists in space-time, Dr. Manhattan can beat it.

Idiot. CA supes doesn't exist in space-time. It exists on dimensions so far above literally anything DM has ever shown that the very idea of comparing him to them shows just how uniformed you are.

Reality manipulators a thousand times more powerful than the doc are a dime a dozen in DC.

Butt stuff.

>Because CAS is still physical
It's not physical, you spastic. Have you even read the story, or are you coming here fresh from a fucking "top 10" youtube video?

The point of Manhattan is that he's a living nuke and unbeatable within his setting since the threat of nuclear war features heavily in that setting. So it stands to reason people would hype him up in other settings

>Because CAS is still physical
That's not the word I'd use. Metaphysical is more apt.

This. Manhattan is supposed to be all powerful in every possible way. For all ae know he created God in the DC Universe.

>I fully believe that nothing beats Dr. Manhattan

I fully believe that you're either baiting or genuinely retarded.

CASS exists "outside the multiverse" but that's still shown to be a physical space that can be moved within and obeys the laws of physics. And it's not "exists on dimensions so far above literally anything DM has ever shown", it's called 4th dimensional which has been shown to be well within Manhattans grasp and understanding.
Name a single reality manipulator that is quantifiably even twice as strong as Manhattan, let alone the thousand times you claim. Like I said, the power level he has is binary, not a scale. He simple can do it, there isn't not a rating or a limit. It just is power. You are either equal to him in power, or so far beneath him that the conflict is meaningless. It's a 1, or a 0, no on between.

>obeys the laws of physics.
No

He isn't meant to be all powerful. One of the major plot points of Watchmen is that Manhattan is an imperfect deterrence against the Soviets. He's a powerful asset to America, but he'd only be able to stop about 60% of the Soviet nukes from hitting them.

>avoiding the answer to lob insults
Tell me how CAS beats him, admit I'm right, or just stop posting. No other response is valid at this point.

If it didn't, the people from within universes wouldn't be able to ender it and move within it. It does, and just saying "no" isn't an argument.

Manhattan is just an expy of Captain Atom.

Is Captain Atom the most powerful character in the DC universe? No. Therefore Manhattan isn't either.

He adapts.

That comparison is just short of laughable. Just what's shown within Watchmen before the modern power-up already dwarfs Atom by leaps and bounds.

Adapting results in either a stalemate or prolonging a loss, and it is not a win without a follow-up. I ask again, how does CAS beat Doctor Manhattan? Tell me the actual method.

He admits in Watchmen he can't raise someone from the dead. He can manipulate matter and has a non-linear perception of time. Beyond that he's not as impressive as you think he is.

>What's show within Watchmen

His inability to deal with tachyons? Making some machinery float? Exploding a handful of Viet Cong? Being outwitted by both the Comedian and Adrian Veidt? Not even being able to intercept 2/3rds of the Russian nuclear stockpile? Making himself big for no apparent reason? He doesn't do anything remotely impressive in Watchmen.

>Manhattan uses (insert power)
>TR instantly adapts to be immune to and counter that power
>Manhattan gets 1 shot

I bet you're listening to Doctor Manhattans theme from that awful snyder film as you type these retarded comments out.

Please leave here and go back to /r/whowouldwin. A cancerous place you belong.

I was almost going to say you didn't even read Watchmen, but it's much more likely that you're being deliberately stupid to make a point if you think "getting big" is on a lost of achievements, but it just makes you look stupid.
How about some actual accomplishments, being able to retroactively effect his timeline, functional omniscience, complete control of sub atomic particles and their bonds, instantaneous limitless travel, unlimited energy, just to name a few. That's just what he actually does, even in Watchmen he talks about creating life which I know isn't the same as reviving something but it's still incredible, and also talks about changing laws of the universe in the way he moves things around in 3D space although he doesn't actually do this I don't think he has a reason to lie about the ability.

"He counters" also isn't a method of betting Dr. Manhattan. Actually tell me what CAS does to beat him already, stop dancing around it. Or just be honest that you literally can't think of a single way to beat him but you're just sticking to your argument with no evidence.

Well to be fair, it sets a nice atmosphere.

youtube.com/watch?v=J0RKpmjjpLQ

Batman is God so he wins

>Long words make him sound more impressive

He can push matter around and see his entire timeline providing it doesn't get fucked by tachyon interference. That's it. There are far, far more powerful characters throughout the DC universe.

Dr Manhattan isn't meant to be the most powerful character in fiction, just his own - grounded - universe. It's a power level that seems impressive and functional vs the condition of the average human being. Rip him out of that context and place him in the DC universe, which functions more on the rules of mythology than reality, and he becomes far less potent. Funny you should call me stupid when you can't even understand the context or message behind Manhattan.

It's a play on words because he took it from a "new god". He's still extremely limited in the chair.

>being reductionist means things didn't happen
Yeah and Superman just punches really hard and is weak to rocks, I don't get that the big deal is. I can make anyone seem useless. If you're willfully being stupid, it's not impressive. Or did the "big words" confuse you and you're actually stupid? Because I'm really thinking that it's one of those two things now.

>Spectre, with Volthoom backing them up.
>he thinks the spectre and volthoom are high tier

Nigga the doc gets throat fucked by beings he cannot even begin to comprehend.

>Reduced to ad hominem

Got an actual argument left in the tank? No? Shame.

One other thing you're forgetting is that in an idea Moore blatantly stole from Dune, Manhattan has to function in lockstep with his timeline. Just because he can perceive it as a non-linear whole, it doesn't mean he can affect or change the outcome if someone decisively beats him.

So if Zatanna manages to say "no more Dr Manhattan" backwards before he can stop her, that's that. If Constantine finds a way to send him to hell, that's that. If Rip Hunter travels back in time and stops Ostermann from ever entering the Intrinsic Field chamber, that's that.

Just accept you're fanwanking the character to an unreasonable degree because throwing around technical jargon about sub-atomic particles is somehow impressive to you, and move on.

>place him in the DC universe, which functions more on the rules of mythology than reality, and he becomes far less potent.
placing a guy who can push matter around in a universe with way more exotic kinds of matter than the one he came from seems like a perfectly reasonable way to make him exponentially more powerful

You're assuming he'd be capable of manipulating matter not native to his own reality. Even then there's plenty of other characters with more experience of doing so than him.

>So if Zatanna manages to say "no more Dr Manhattan" backwards before he can stop her, that's that.
I don't buy the "Manhattan is unbeatable" argument but this idea doesn't work. If she could do that then why has she never said "Dieskrad erom on" or "Reverof esrevinu eht ni ecaep"? Zatanna's power isn't limitless. If it were she'd solve every single crisis in the DC Universe with just a sentence.

Fair enough, how about just confining him to his own universe? That shouldn't be out of the question.

>"Dieskrad erom on"
Darkseid uses magic

They each represent the ultimate peak of their source of power. It was more meant to cover all the bases.

Yes I do have an actual argument, your post willfully ignored it and refused to aknowledge it so I thought some honesty would be refreshing.
>if Zatana manages to say
So your point now is that Manhattan is slow? You clearly don't understand how his timeline works. He doesn't "go back" to change something, he experiences it all at once. He would just know his timeline ends there, and would know the last thing to happen before it ended would be that spell, and then act accordingly. I'd say even the Flash isn't fast enough, even with time travel that's still a point-to-point view of time that loses to an all-at-once view of time.

If it were just plain old Watchmen Manhattan then maybe. But Rebirth Manhattan is another story. The Superman Reborn storyline implied that even Mxyzptlk is scared of him.

>They each represent the ultimate peak of their source of power.

Lolwhat. The spectre gets his ass kicked by other angels and demons fairly often.

Why are you lying so blatantly?

This is pretty telling, that's a multiverseal threat and he's not just intimidated, he's outright afraid. The only thing I'd ever entrain the idea of beating Manhattan is the One Above All or something similar.

Can't recall Spectre ever being overpowered in his own field, but then again I read Spectre about as much as everyone else, meaning not for about 15 years now.

I thought the blue guy was defeated by a human already? Wasn't he tricked into leaving earth because some genius framed him into looking like he was emitting lethal radiation

That was just in the movie.

>he only thing I'd ever entrain the idea of beating Manhattan is the One Above All or something similar.

>meme above all
>manhattan

Jesus you really have just came here from a "top 10 characters who could beat goku" youtube video.

and yet, Adrian manage to trick him and beat him.

Huh....HUH

>Yes I do have an actual argument

Apparently you don't.

>You clearly don't understand how his timeline works

I seem to understand it better than you. What part of "lockstep" didn't you understand? His experience is non-linear, something I already pointed out, but he can't actually change any of the events on that timeline. Or timedisc. Timesphere. Whatever the fuck it looks like to him.

Manhattan is literally "Determinism: The Comic Book Character". How are you not getting this?

He wasn't manipulated so much as you manipulate someone when you say please. A human did something behind his back, and then convinced him it was for the best, so he got bored of Earth and left.

We're talking about the most powerful beings in publication, and you're surprised I'm bringing up powerful beings? Are you actually retarded?

I do, it's here you just replied with a TL;DR and willfully ignoring most of the post. And he can change events, he does it quite literally saying things like "I'm telling her 10 minutes ago". He's actually going back and changing something there. You really don't uderstand it despite saying you do, and I'm not surprised since you think words like "subatomic" are just so big and impressive that I must be posturing.

>We're talking about the most powerful beings in publication

Why are we talking about Manhattan, then?

Mxyzptlk's power tends to vary a lot depending on the writer. He was shown at his most powerful in the World's Funnest one-shot where he and Bat-Mite casually destroyed and then recreated the multiverse. However that story's canonicity is dubious and it doesn't match up with a lot of Mxy's other showings.

Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow showed him getting killed by being torn apart between the 5th Dimension and the Phantom Zone. I think in another story he got taken out by the Spectre.

Name someone who can beat Manhattan that also hasn't been featured in a top 10 video. What a fucking stupid complaint.

If we're talking all of fiction then Manhattan would probably be in the top 0.01%. Most fictional characters aren't super powered.

>he does it quite literally saying things like "I'm telling her 10 minutes ago". He's actually going back and changing something there

No he fucking isn't you brainlet. He's simply aware of two events happening simultaneously to his perception.

We're talking about people who could beat Manhattan, you literal ape.

I wouldn't know. I'm not a top 10 watching, reddit browsing non-reader.

Well Batman better get his shit together he has a month and a half left, because we all know Sups is going to job to Dr. M the first round then get the League to cover for his impotence.

Words like before and after are used to describe the sequence of events to an observer since there aren't words for the rate that Manhattan observes them in English, I can't believe I even have to explain this.

You seem to know who's in them really well for someone who doesn't watch them, going by what you're calling out.

>Time
>Mattering against Manhattan

Lmao.

>create and destroy entire multiverse
>literally scared of Manhattan
>LOL MANHATTAN IS NOBODY
I can see doubting his upper limits but people who argue that he's nothing are baffling to me.

>really well
>one character
>the most powerful marvel character without a doubt

No shit he's on the list.

You still haven't offered a counterargument to the explicitly stated fact that he can't change his own timeline and is subject to the effects of hard determinism.

He himself states that he is a puppet, just one that is allowed to see the strings. Being able to perceive his entire timeline simultaneously is the entire reason for his seeming detachment from the human condition and emotional withdrawal, for all his power he cannot change his own timeline - every event in his life is determined and he is aware of all the determined outcomes for his actions simultaneously.

Jesus Christ, did you even read the comic?

Still not getting why it's a problem to bring him up. I think most of the posters here could use a safe space more than Tumblr, fucking anything triggers you.

>he can't change his own timeline
He does and I literally just described a situation where he did in his first appearance before he got a recent and substantial power up. You're willfully ignoring me again, and I'm not going to bother with you anymore.

>Waaaah I can't hear you I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears

Read the fucking comic. He doesn't change anything, at any point. He simply reacts to events happening as they've been preordained. The only time when he reacts with surprise to incoming events is the finale when the residual tachyon interference muddied his perception of the order in which events occurred.

Fuck off, you're describing yourself.

Because Big D is set within a mythological narrative. Zee can't fuck with that. It's something that's already set in stone. The only one that can kill him is his Son. She and everything else has to obey that law.

Batman even if he had only 1 sec prep time

Any 'toon physics' character
I.e., 'if it's funny enough they can do it'.
Fuck, even Deadpool falls into that category.