Biomnitrix vs Ultimatrix

Which is better?

Biomnitrix, why? Because it's cooler.

fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak aliens stronger

Why not both?

biomnitrix.

are you sure about that?

how the fuck would this make the alien any better? upgrade can already do what jury rig can, without disassembling anything

Because upgrade does have some limits. He can make upgrade your toaster to toast like fifty bagels at once, but it won't be a flying toaster. Jury Rigg will disassemble your toaster and reassemble it into a flying toaster that also makes pizza bagels and gives you a blowjob. The changes don't go away when when ben changes back.

The downside though, is that juryriggs stuff doesn't tend to last very long. It falls apart because he does it quickly and haphazardly.

That's why ben merged juryrigg and upgrade. All the awesome reliability of upgrade, with the permanence of juryrigg. That bit with the time cycles really shows off what I'm talking about

yeah but if there was an ultimate jurry rig/upgrade they would evolve past they're weaknesses and reach their highest potential. Jury Rigg would evolve to build more capable builds and have enhanced speed/intellect to compensate for his previous form. Upgrade would evolve to be more durable and be able to fix things by upgrading them permanently and would also evolve the ability to give things multiple upgrades, aswell as evolving past the magnetic weakness

i actually fucking hated the biomatrix gimmick and the snot thing

ultimate biomnitrix fusions would make ben more op than ever before. ex. Ultimate echo echo and ultimate rath, a angry tiger robot that yells at people at supersonic speeds

Ultimatrix hands down. So long as you don't use that jobber form called Spidermonkey.

whats wrong with spidermonkey

Still looks better than Ultimate Swampfire

Is Spidermonkey really a jobber when Jetray and Chromastone exist?

same

Biomnitrix all the way. Not just because it's cooler, but it ultimately shows how far Ben's come in his hero career.

The Ultimatrix's forms were barely used well, Ben would always default to the same handful like SpiderMonkey and Humongousaur and wind up losing anyway.

this
also UA ben 10 000 was weird

That's why they retconned the hell out of him. The creators themselves admitted "ultimate ben" was a stupid idea

Except the ultimatrix was roundly shut down as a terrible idea by Azmuth. It doesn't really bring out the best in each creature. All it does is simulate the worst possible scenario (I'm talking about like a million years of civil and fighting) and provides a creature that would have "survived" that. You'll notice that most of the forms were combat oriented, with the possible exception of the Galvan one. There's no promise that either one of them would have developed in that way. It's equally likely that Upgrade would be able to have an "ultimate" form as his species was created artificially, and that jury rigg would only be better at building weapons.

I guess they would concidering you aren't as likely to sell toys of some guy with an ominitrix on his chest as you are a bunch of colorful weird looking aliens.

Maybe. But if I'm being honest, I never really noticed Ben10 being any more toyetic than any other series. Shit, I've seen more nuBen toys than any other series, and the selection I've seen is still smaller than series like TMNT.

I also think it didn't help that he ultimate ben was only seen once, and we had no development. He sorta just shows up. I get what they were going for though. Ultimate Ben WAS regular Ben, but fully merged with the Omnitrix. It was supposed to signify how humans are adaptable to anything. But all it really did was dissappoint the heck out of the viewers

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

I never liked the squid form. It was an OK plot, but one that was wasted on Vilgax. I feel like it should have been a separate alien species that always looks like that, rather than just "this is my TRUE form lol"

how the fuck did ultimate way big out-mass that thing

...

that's not Vilgax

...

very carefully

I know, it's Dagon. I'm just saying it was stupid for vilgax to be able to pass himself off as Dagon when he'd. Ever been shown to have another form before, let alone one that looked like an eldritch abomination

well to be fair vilgax has been in worser forms

Yeah, that's a pretty heinous design. It was also part of that same arc.

They need to stop throwing Vilgax into the plot to "raise the stakes". Having him show up as a secondary or even tertiary villain really didn't do good things for his image.

>Ultraman

I wish ghostfreak appeared more in Ultimate Alien.

Tbqh ultimates were jobber forms that made no sense from a progressional standpoint, not at all. The progression of a genetic alteration is to change species, then to do that on the fly, and finally to use different species at the same time. My money is on the Biomnitrices... if you retcon them to look like the OS one.
With any alien pre-AF, why?

The first 9 aliens basically replaced the entire OS crew, and UA made fasttrack along with Eatle. Sure the OS crew were better designed and actually looked good, but the UAF crew was versatile and generic.

Each alien form hair their strengths and weaknesses. If you look at it like a cosmic game of Rock Paper Scissors, there are conceivably situations where you would use an older version over a newer one.

For example, swamp fire was meant to replace wildvine as "the plant guy". But in his very first episode it was established that the dude pretty much smells like farts. If you needed the regeneration that the plant aliens provide without giving away your position, you'd want to have access to wildvine.

Ghostfreak had some neat powers that big chill didn't have, and the alien that got those leftover powers, whampire, didn't have the ability to go through walls and shit.

There's a place for everybody.

Well. Everybody except fasttrack. He was pretty shitty

I mean, yeah

You shut your whore mouth.

Cannonbolt was pre-AF and he was the shit.

desu, fasttrack was just.... a bad idea, i mean sure eatle if notably stronger and better than upchuck and clockwork is just a bad ass but fasttrack i just a rip-off xlr8

I personally think omniverse renaming the horror trio was a good idea, i agree with most of them except frankenstrike, why just why....

I've never watched past Ben 10 Alien Force and I just need to say that both those names are ridiculous

Yeah, he didn't really have anything that differentiated him from XLR8, other than being based on the flash. If they had given him an additional power/weakness it probably would have been fine.

Because let's face it, despite people ragging on AF aliens for being unoriginal, loads of people loved Bigg Chill and Swampfire because they could be used in different ways. Humongasaur had issues because they dropped the thing that made him different (his ability to change sizes) and just kept him as lizard FourArms.

I think the idea behind Fasttrack is that he was stronger, and thus could carry more people, but had less traction. One time he reached XLR8 tier speed to stop a missile but ended up crashing because he couldn't stop.

Hmm. They probably should have done more to show that, because it's such a minor "power" that it can be overlooked as an inconsistency

Easy, Omnitrix, the ultimatrix and biomatrix are gimmicks. On a side note, I fucking love the original design, why did they want to change it?

>Ultraman Belial: How does he always do that!?

They needed a slimmer, more mature design for when Ben was older. It would have been difficult as fuck to hide that bulky thing when he was going to school. Not only that, but technology tends to get slimmer as it improves

Neither.

I'd go with the Nemetrix plus that Ultimatrix Mod and a Slimebiote.

>wanting a talking booger attatched to your Omnitrix

Y tho?

Literally everything that Skurd could do, the Biomnitrix could do better. Plus, it didn't talk back.

Only problem is you need a Slimebiote to work with the Nemetrix otherwise your mind goes splut when you turn into a Tyrannopede.

Gimmicks that beat the original's arse, ex. fourmungosaur vs four arms who do you think would win or diamond head vs ultimate echo echo. Just a few examples.

Fair enough.

But is it that important to turn into Feral predator species when you have a literal library of millions of other aliens at your disposal in the regular Omnitrix?

The Biomnitrix was actually a pretty cool idea, but it was one that really needed to be fleshed out. Like, it would have made for a great arc to have Ben learn how to use it when he gets older. Figure out which forms complement each other, and which ones make him useless.

If they had decided to do a continuation of Omniverse like they'd set up for, they could have used that as a third or fourth season arc.

Ok anons.

Pick a character, any version of that character from whatever season/series you like,

that character is charged with escorting you from one end of the galaxy to the other for a diplomatic mission

How fucked are you?

the one that dosent time out or turn you into the wrong thing at the wrong time

It only turns ben into the wrong thing because he keeps slamming on it too hard. You'll notice that the other Bens don't have the same issue, because they're not hitting it as hard as ben does

I like how jury rig can just make shit do things without adding anything apparently. you cant make a flying toaster from a regular toaster without adding other bits.

my mind broke when I saw this scene. He jumped onto it and then proceeded to PULL IT DOWN!

I got the feeling he also used other scraps of things that happened to be around. So, it wouldn't just be the toaster, but the toaster and the contents of your junk drawer, you know, the one with old pens, useless obsolete charging cables, and other bits and bobs.

Maybe it was more of a concentration thing, like waybig finally broke its concentration enough that it couldn't maintain lift anymore

>humongasaur vs Four Arms

Four arms, no question. Humongasaur is a humongasaur-jobber and loses more fights than he wins. Four arms can at least hold his own in a fight.

> diamond head vs ultimate echo echo

Shit man, you don't even need to have echo echo go ultimate on diamond head in order to beat him. That little shit is OP, and would shatter him with his sonic screaming. The floating stereos that his ultimate form gets just makes the process faster

Biomnitrix is just more useful than the ultamatrix.
The ultamatrix is a weapon designed for battle, whereas the possible combinations for the biomnitrix are literally infinite. The ultimate aliens we did get to see were either not worth it, or just essentially the base form but "stronger"

That being said, the combinations I would have wanted to see the most are:
>Chromastome/diamondhead
bulkiness and shards of diamondhead energy absorption of chomastone
>heatblast/cannonbolt
flaming cannonball
>bullfrag/fourarms
bouncing, hoping muscle frog

...

Omnitrix with the gloopy thing on it. He could make weapons from another alien or change a certain part of ben (Alien x arm on human ben)

skurd is bad

Never understood the Skurd hate

anyways I'm going with ultimate because the hypotheticals are cooler like an ultimate chronosapien

Ultimates take the fun out of using an aliens natural abilities for a specific job.

I havent watched teen ben in a while, but i remember that he always seemed to pick aliens at random, and it didnt matter what he picked because always jobbed or won depending on how close the episode is to ending.
So biomnitrix, if adult ben thinks its cool then it must be.

I didn't like Skurd mostly for how he was characterized. He was this snarky scrappy doo like character who didn't really have any flaws and was never wrong. But ben had to put up with him anyway.

The weapon thing was cool, don't get me wrong, but I think more people would have liked him if he got an episode or two devoted to giving him some actual character traits

It wasn't so much that he picked them at random as it was that he would pick an alien, announce it, slam down on the omnitrix, and get something totally different.

Most of the time he could make it work, especially if it was, like you said, close to the end of the episode.

But I'm not so sure that the biomnitrix really took away any cleverness to Bens choices. I feel like there was probably a huge learning curve to using it and figuring out which forms worked well with each other. We've seen glitchy fused forms in the past, like StinkArms and Diamond Matter. I'm sure there are other forms that don't work well and Bend had to find out the hard way about them, but we'll never know because we only saw the biomnitrix when Ben 10K was an established hero with years of experience under his belt

The Worst + Walkatrout = Unstoppable Power

As much as I dislike Derrick J Wyatt, I prefer the Biomnitrix. Bandai use to do a thing where you could fuse Ben's aliens together. I'm still rustled they never made codes for Greymatter and Ripjaws. Good thing we have fanart.

see, things like that make me disappointed I wasn't part of this fandom when the show first started. I missed out on all the good stuff

Okay, Transformers Prime and Ben 10 Omniverse are fine, but Teen titans (2003) and Mystery incorporated are some of the worst cartoons I've ever seen, I'd rather watch a Johnny Test marathon than watch Velma hit on Shaggy.

So they could sell more toys to kids.

That's because ultimate forms cost money to design and animate

Just make more palette swaps.

Pallet swaps are boring though

Oh yeah, I remember those.

They weren't all good, but there are some gems still sitting around the net.

Ok, so admit it folks - who in here wrote fanfiction, and which of you are ballsy enough to let me read it?

Just finished marathoning UA and the whole Dagon plot arch just felt like wasted potential. Honestly, the series peaked with the 2nd half of season 1 (but of course you have to get through the awful first half of season 1)

Yeah, they really nerfed him as the series went on. Like he in the OS was a legit threat and considered like the main bad guy of the whole series, but they made him into more of a joke later on that Ben just shrugs off as no big deal.

I liked the thing with old George, and the implications for Bens character. It felt like he was transitioning into this pure superman type hero, super competent, etc. Then they dropped that progress for
Omniverse

But it did feel like they were sorta petering out as the series wound down as opposed to the ramping up that the highborn finale got

gotta smash fast

Biomnitrix by a country mile.

And it's a shame, because he was a really effective villain.

But they just kept trotting him out again and again every time they wanted to boost the threat rating of another villain.

None

You know, its kinda funny that they brought up the concept of the biomnitrix way back in the OS, and then revisited it in omniverse.

Who was the best omniverse villain and why was it Kundo?

I really like Malware.

Malware was a top tier villain. He was easily as evil as OS vilgax

I liked that he was technically Azmuth's son, which "humanized" him a bit for making his anger somewhat understandable. And I love Malware's voice.

>Azmuth: Sewing chaos doesn't take any special talent, Malware. If that's the best you can do I'm not impressed

>Malware: No! Nothing I do could ever impress you could it Father. In your eyes I am nothing but your failed experiment, your Shame.

Yeah, Azmuth not being impressed by people really seems to get him into a lot of trouble. Every time somebody has an issue with him, it seems to be due to the fact that he just doesn't give a fuck. Malware, Psychobos, Albedo, shit, even Myax (who wasn't actually evil, just annoyed) had issues with that part of him

You think the guy would eventually learn to lie to people or something

Yeah, for a being who's thousands of years old, you would think he'd be a bit more understanding. The main reason Malware turned evil was because thanks to Azmuth, he was "born" with a defect that mutated him. And Azmuth basically said he would cure him when he got around to it. Which resulted in Malware becoming impatient until he got angry and decided to get violent.

Don't know if that happened to Dr. Psychobos, as I don't think he worked with Azmuth. And Albedo thought a human wasn't worthy of the Omnitrix and wanted it for himself, resulting in Albedo leaving.

not just thousands of years old, but also the smartest being in five galaxies. Considering that it was previously three, and then before that, just one, it implies he's also actively been searching for somebody as smart as he is.

Maltruant said that since Azmuth wouldn't fix him, he had to go to the second greatest mind in the universe, meaning that Psychobos is technically smarter than all of Galvan Prime. But no Galvan will admit to being less intelligent than a Cerebrocrustation, and that lack of acknowledgment and respect is what drove him mad. I mean, he was probably a piece of shit beforehand, since no reasonable creature thinks that GENOCIDE is an acceptable punishment for ignorance, but still. That was his motivation

The timeline with that really fucked with my head, and I'm not sure if its because Omniverse was doing some retconning, or if I just have things screwed up.

Malware, like all of the Mechamorphs, was created by Azmuth. But he was shown creating them as an older Galvan, living back on Galvan Prime.

UAF seemed to imply that after Ascalon destroyed the Incurseasan home planet, Azmuth shut himself away from the world to devote his time to creating the Omnitrix as a sort of apology to the universe, and also to show Zenith that he'd learned his lesson. But that was way back in his youth. It took thousands of years to go from Ascalon, to the prototype Unitrixes, to the Omnitrix, and then an additional five years to make the "final" OS Omnitrix that he sent to Max. In that time, I thought he lived on Xenon.

So when did he create the Mechamorphs?

>Psychobos is technically smarter than all of Galvan Prime.
Not necessarily, as Malware wanted to absorb the Omnitrix. And he brought a rough blueprint to Dr. Psyhcobos to replicate. This replica eventually became the Nemitrix. But the rest of what you said is true.

>So when did he create the Mechamorphs?
We don't know exactly when that happened. But we do know the Galvanic Mechamorphs were created before the Original Series started, as Ben has a Galvanic Mechamorph sample.

Regardless of what he wanted, he still needed somebody smarter than himself to do it. The smartest guy around wasn't willing to do it, so he went after the next smartest. It would have been easy enough to manipulate another Galvan to do it. Certainly somebody like Albedo would be willing to help him, as Albedo is not only brilliant. but also both evil and has a grudge against Ben and Azmuth.

But he above all the Galvans, he chose to approach Psycobos to help him. I can only assume that he was telling the truth in that he was the second most intelligent creature in the universe

Ben has fighting him for like 6 years, Of course he gonna think less of him after that

>It would have been easy enough to manipulate another Galvan to do it. Certainly somebody like Albedo would be willing to help him
I'm pretty sure Albedo wasen't evil at that point, he was still Azmuth assistant, So Psycobos was the best option

To sell toys, even more than any aliens the toys that i ALWAYS see from ben 10 are the Omnitrix