Videogames have replaced cartoons as the go to place for creative and competent animators who want to tell stories...

Videogames have replaced cartoons as the go to place for creative and competent animators who want to tell stories, haven't they?

How do we fix this?

Other urls found in this thread:

independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html
oddworld.com/soulstorm/
youtube.com/watch?v=YfIStXtxyuI
youtu.be/Ta1EGfCQN4Y
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

You don't, just accept it. Or you could always put more gov. funds towards the arts, but that would probably trigger Sup Forums.

>that would probably trigger Sup Forums.
Why?

>Or you could always put more gov. funds towards the arts

the CIA did that with modern art, tho

That's why.

But... but that's literally what happened, the CIA literally admitted decades ago they used funds to push modern art to compete with the soviets.

independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html

Saying this is Sup Forums is like saying that hiroshima being a thing that happened is Sup Forums, the fuck? and if anything this is probably something they'd like since its explicitly an anti communist movement.

A lot of people think that the tax money is something they actually own and should have a word on what it is used for.

If by "creative and competent" you mean "either raised by modern Internet culture or browbeaten into creative sterility and mass appeal", then yeah, video games have succeeded cartoons.

>using Oddworld as an example

They made the same thematic base three times, got their asses rushed doing something a little different for Stranger's Wrath, sold out to an "ethical" soft drink company despite making anti-corporation products, and got their more creative ideas sandbagged in the name of profit margins. What's next, promoting Sir Mix-a-lot and Lou Bega as timeless underappreciated musical geniuses?

>"either raised by modern Internet culture or browbeaten into creative sterility and mass appeal"

doesn't that describe cartoonists moreso than videogame developers?

That's not wrong.

This studio thrived because of that, and when the Soviet Union ended, it practically went belly up.

At least with gamedev you can add "computer nerds who by necessity keep up with technology that interests people" and "people who directly sell a product to people instead of making money through ads, so necessarily have to make business decisions instead of staying inside an (((artist))) echo chamber" to them.

Positive or negative, those are traits that push them to be more relevant than 2d cartoonists who can only ever hope to find a niche crowd of weirdos to appease.

>Videogames
>Creative
>Competent
Sup Forums here. Videogames have been complete ass since 2007.

Why would you fix what isn't broken?
Videogames are a far superior medium to tell anything that requires emotional investment.
And animation isn't dead, it just went non-mainstream. Go to anima mundi, absorb some of what the world has to offer in cartoons. The USA isn't the only place on earth.

also, another thing that needs to be brought up is this ridiculous exclusion of normal people from the world of animation. It sounds silly, but check it:

>game mods
>involves reverse engineering, software and coding knowledge, 3d texturing or even brand new modelling, set/level design, and if its a story mod some level of creative abilities
>seen as something anyone can do for free on their own time, lots of dumb stuff and impressive stuff like people who make shit that looks like a modern fps in the doom engine, an actual thriving community where anyone and everyone is involved, including players, and game companies themselves almost always hire through this scene almost as much as through traditional nepotistic or application channels

>2d cartooning animation
>you draw illustrations one after another and do video editing
>seen as something super elite only super talented people do, something that's always going to be ridiculously expensive and out of reach for normal people, what gets done is typically unimpressive joke animations (or worse, ironically bad on purpose), student film tier at best, no real open community, just small nepotistic groups who occasionally hire comic artists, you might get hired through uploading stuff online, but most hiring is nepotistic or application driven, only artists and an even worse voice acting scene are involved, derision of consumers is common place.

The producers and businessmen aren't the problem, user. The artists are the problem.

Yes, I'm sure those animators are more fulfilled working on a generic AAA title filled to the brim with loot boxes and microtransactions.

>>How do we fix this?
stop being shit?
thats the only reason nobody cares about cartoons anymore, tv is doing fine and adapting to the netflix model
music is doing fine
movies are doing fine

if you serve people nothing but hot garbage, well look how marvel is doing.

>meanwhile, indies working on beautiful 2d animated games make a killing compared to even well paid animators at disney

get with the times, this isn't 2004. Even AAA games are a great place for 3d animators, just look at blizzard.

In addition to this, artists usually aren't concerned with telling stories. They might think they are, but in reality most artists want to draw pictures and then try to suit a story around them rather than thinking about and writing a strong script. It doesn't help most scripts in the western cartoon industry are meant for kids.

>movies are doing fine
>he doesn't know about the projected hollywood collapse

>r you could always put more gov. funds towards the arts
come up with a cartoon thats good enough to call it art first

>Just look at blizzard
If this were Sup Forums that would be said ironically. I don't know if you are here though.

>he doesn't know about the projected hollywood collapse
>projected
wasnt the world supposed to end two days ago with the apocalypse?

Arguably one of the reasons that devs have a leg up on animators is because good environmental storytelling doesn't necessarily require a good script. Something like dead space is a great immersive experience despite the actual plot being something right out of a shitty hackneyed B movie.

>mfw animators keep pushing board driven cartoons as a good thing despite it being proven time and time again it lowers the quality of a show really badly

funny faces aren't worth sacrificing stories over, get a fucking script. If you want to tell stories so bad, learn how to tell them in the first place so you can synthesize them better with visual storytelling. Fuck, it isnt even unique, every animator and their mom keeps saying "OHHH ANIMATION IS A VISUAL MEDIUM"

guess what, movies are a visual medium too, and even the most artsy kino shit has scripts. Fucking Drive had a script.

Main problem is most cartoonists are shitty storytellers to begin with, which would be fine if their visuals were interesting. But then they get their influence from a bunch of lowbrow shit that doesnt even do a good job interesting kids so their art turns out to be minimalist annoying shit. So then you have something that has no style OR substance.

What's the fucking point if that's the case?

Yeah but the hollywood thing is something backed up by analytics and economics, not voodoo bullshit.

The entire movie industry is putting all of its egg in the china basket, and historically putting all your eggs in one basket has never worked out for any industry ever. That's kinda why we had a financial downturn to begin with.

Is that fucking Oddworld? When did this come out?

>he doesn't know

oddworld.com/soulstorm/

its basically a remake of exodus, but with all the cut content put back in to make the original vision instead of the rushed, albeit good game we got.

>mfw animators keep pushing board driven cartoons as a good thing despite it being proven time and time again it lowers the quality of a show really badly

Does your knowledge of animation come from Sup Forums? Artists writing cartoons is not some kind of new concept being pushed, it's pretty much the norm outside of toy commercials and animated sitcoms

Holy shit. I was so happy when New and Tasty came out. Shit, I even played Munch and Stranger again after that game.

>by analytics and economics
but what has the pope said about it?

Nigga I AM an animator, and I know its bullshit.

>(((storyboarders))) send really minimal boards over to koreans who actually do all the hard labor with the shitty directions by the americans
>storyboarders all work disparately from one another so if its a long epic ongoing story the pacing and characterization is always turbo fucked and inconsistent, even with supervision from a lazy series director
>show suffers because instead of hinging on anything engaging, it turns into a shallow "let's see who can make this frame a meme" party
>episodic comedies work best for it, but even then the jokes always fall flat because most cartoonists arent comedians

I've been through this bullshit too many fucking times. All the shows anyone ever gives a shit about like rick and morty and the venture bros are always script driven, golden age simpsons was script driven, every show worth a single shit was script driven, and this fucking fashion statement other animators keep making that "board driven, like, lets the artists express themselves, man" is a crock of shit following the dying adventure time trend and is mostly a bunch of people trying to ego stroke their friends into thinking their crappy drawings are just as worthwhile as the integrity of the overall show.

Fucking bite me, I mad.

>tv is doing fine and adapting to the netflix model
>music is doing fine
>movies are doing fine
All media is doing extremely poorly, you moron. Including several types you haven't mentioned.

calm your tits
its just fucking text, no video or art yet
it was my favourite ame growing up and i played them like 20 times and im not expecting much

What cartoon do you work on?

>All media is doing extremely poorly
could have fooled me with shit like the emoji movie selling like hot pussy
maybe you are confused by all the retards who think a movie should make an imaginary number of sales based on absolutely nothing but what other successful movies do in order to not be considered a failure

unless you become a successfull CEO of one of the big cartoon tv networks you will never have that much control over it because the current lot who is in charge will always view cartoons and animated work in general as children's entertainment.
And as children's entertainment it should be purile, pointless unless teaching a social lesson like sexism is bad mmmkay, and with minimal production costs cause fuck em they're just kids, they'll eat the shit we offer and like it.

Until that kind of attitude is gone, animation will always be treated as an invalid medium to tell a complex story.

And before anyone fucking brings it up

>b-b-b-b-b-but looney tunes and classic animation did it!

it worked because the people making that stuff had good taste, none of it was ever this weird alienating in joke shit you see in so many modern cartoons, it was stuff made for laymen by people with classical art training. For fuck's sake, disney wasn't made up of cartoonists, it was founded by a bunch of fucking landscape painters! Their method isnt fucking comparable to board driven shows run by a bunch of weeaboos and videogame nerds who've never even heard of ralph bakshi, let alone any of the artists who developed perspective.

All these wannabe miyazaki kids keep acting like scripts are the antithesis to visual storytelling. It isn't! It's literally just the fastest, most effective way of organizing a story without wasting a bunch of time with the kind of throwaway gag shit these boarders spew out, and actually be able to edit it down to something that has a point for even existing. It's like if you tried to make a good book, and then had all the chapters be written out by different people with vastly different styles and outlooks on art. It'll always be a jarring mess even if its vaguely interesting. If you're going to have a show boarded by multiple people at once, you NEED a script to reel them into a unifying vision. Why the fuck is it more important to showcase each artist like its some fucking demo reel collab than it is to make something consistently good?

God fucking damn its bullshit

NDA agreements aside, I worked at nickelodeon shortly after interning at CN for the show with no inking. Connections are weird. I'm working at a smaller commercial oriented studio now. The no ink show's crew are a bunch of snowflakes holy shit, hate how much they dismiss legit criticism, even internally.

>we will never see brutal ballad

Holy cow! screw the whiny OP, this is great news.

>the show with no inking
well don't hold out, what was it?

>arguing with based trips
Delete your account right now, newfag.

WOOOOAAAH
YOU'RE IN THE DOG HOUSE NOW
DUUUUUUUUDE

>Delete your account
i have multiple accounts so nobody knows who i am when i want to downvote something

>The USA isn't the only place on earth.
but we are the only place that matters though

I'm already at full health!

>videogames
>creative and competent animators
Name me a couple examples. Show me their work.

do you realize that shit like PPG and rocko did the same thing? this is not a new fucking thing, this is just business as usual. you're a fucking retard.

The artists at lab zero (skullgirls)
Cuphead
Owlboy
The bastion/transistor/pyre crew
Telltale in general
Every single total conversion mod ever
Doublefine (psychonauts, brutal legend)
Even the shitty moba/hero shooters are basically concept artist and 3d animator crack

Even just one of those will blow the fuck out of any animated movie from this year, last year, or the one before that. Heck, throw in tv shows.

Can you really say with a straight face it adds up to the same kind of value as vidya? It can barely compete. Even small indies make a shitload of money compared to what animators make working on Moana vs what the producers pocket.

Don't forget the tf2 shorts being amazing despite just being advertisements. Pretty sure they have another one coming out for the next update, too.

>some shows made by people with good taste pulled it off, so that means it must work for everything

You're a double retard and can't even give me a real counter argument.

Valve, blizzard, and ubisoft are genuinely fucking god tier work environments for 3d artists, man. They're surrounded with red tape bullshit, but at least one of them isn't "this has to be kid safe".

The artists at lab zero
Fetish crap

>Telltale in general
You're joking right? The art direction isn't anything to praise in the games and the model animations are stiff as fuck.

>Doublefine
>lists games that did yeas ago
They haven't made jack that was notable this gen.


The only game that really impressed me was cuphead visually.

I'm tired of bait threads. This is now a videogame animation/design thread.
Post your favorite videogame post favorite vidya animation, whether it be idle, concept art, shorts, cutscenes or whatever.

You're defeating your argument by admitting the problem is the people making shit and not the actual method.

...

If the problem is people who don't understand the method, and those kind of people are basically everyone using the method, then yes, the method is kind of a problem and needs to be thrown out for something else that works.

Board driven shows are barely functional. They could be functional, but not by mouthbreathers. The kind of people who make it work already internalized how stories work because they had some classical art upbringing, if you don't have that and your frame of refference is anime, then no, the method isn't good for you. Or the viewers. Let alone the ratings.

>boring wannabe Metroid sidescroller but with TOONY VISUALS!!!!

Wow..... So exciting........

what, cuphead isn't even in the same genre as metroid

...

>Sup Forums
>having a valuable opinion on vidya

He posts in a thread about the only videogame animation team to be nominated for an Oscar

...

>TFW Sup Forums has reached a point where its opinions on cartoons are equally as invalid as Sup Forums, and now Sup Forumsermin are taunting us with threads like this.

Why did we allow it to spread, Sup Forums?

this character design is so sick

Offer some damn genre variety for once. For fucks sake.

It's defiantly one of my favorite design in the game.

Vidya is fine outside of the tentpole AAA industrt which slowly but surely is starting to "get it".

Television is struggling but it'll probably survive. It's just hyper competitive and still trying to make the whole VOD thing work.

Indie rock in 2017 is functionally dead with only a handful of decent bands carrying the torch of older musicians. Hip-hop is currently king popularitywise but it's clear that the 2010s wave hit its peak 2015/2016 and won't make it past 2022. Soundcloud rap is a meme that won't actually take off. In all cases music is still stuck in its 20 year war with the internet.

Hollywood is maybe 5 years tops from an absolute implosion of the AAA blockbuster tentpole franchise IP whore model. Seriously it sounds like a meme now but we are seriously on the brink of something truly awful here.

Everyone knows that no board has good taste in its subject matter.

The baby metroid scene in Samus Returns is top notch. No dialogue, just body language.

Really, all of the storytelling in SR is pretty great, but that scene and the end of the Diggernaut fight stand out.

We don't because videogames are the superior medium to experience entertainment.

>mfw playing cave story again after so long

Why does this decade old pixel game make me feel so much more than every "feelsy" cartoon?

Generally speaking, videogames tend to be more out there and interesting than animation when it comes to visual designs. I'm not sure why.

...

I still think the fact that the doom sprites are actually just photos of real life stop motion puppets they specially made for the game is the coolest shit in the world.

Post Coco.

Huh. You learn something new everyday.

can do

also, why do people overly saturate gifs on tumblr

they should've just scanned these puppets and made them into models for DOOM

There was cut content in this I never knew

...

The entire series was basically rushed out the door like crazy, and it's a miracle the original games are anywhere near as good as they are.

Seriously, turns out exodus had half life 2 beta levels of cut content, and was supposed to slowly turn into a grander strategy game with a much, much darker tone and story.

Holy shit that's horrifying, kind of a shame that isn't how it looked like in the original cause of all the compression artifacting.

Because 95% of Sup Forums is made of retarded sovereign citizens.

That's pretty interesting actually. Actually a bit excited to see what the new version of the game will have if they actually add in whatever got cut and any other new things they want to add.

The animations in the crash trilogy were all pretty great.

youtube.com/watch?v=YfIStXtxyuI

I didn't know that at all, that is cool.

you had one chance and you blew it, you could have said Sikh

>doom models make me wanna play doom wads again
>look up some popular ones
>see this

youtu.be/Ta1EGfCQN4Y

Holy shit

Telltale announced that they've dropped Monkey Island and Sam & Max in favor of licenses like The Walking Dead and Guardians of the Galaxy.

>put more gov. funds towards the arts
It'd be better to scrap the animator's guild so you could actually afford to do some work in America

To you. And the average american doesn't worth that much.

>getting mad about ironic American dick waving
>on the fight thread

do you know why it even exists in the first place?

to set a price floor towards anyone working in the industry with the 'goal' of producing a 'living wage' but the effects of making animation is much more costly, and the effect of that is animation as a storytelling medium suffers.

Unions bad user. Paying slave wages good

>it's okay if people suffer because it makes cartoons cheaper to produce

Do you realize how fucking insane you sound?

if people are suffering, I would advise they get a different job, which will in turn shrink the labor force and raise wages until they're no longer suffering. That way, free market will decide the price instead of a couple of union jackboots

That's also how they made the sprites for Oddworld.

You are a fucking retard. If everyone quit then there wouldn't fucking be anymore animation.

>which will in turn shrink the labor force and raise wages until they're no longer suffering.

You dumbfuck, then you'd be fucking complaining again that animation is too expensive to produce. You are braindead, please kill yourself.

Price controls don't work for the people you're trying to help. It only make it harder to justify paying them. This is basic economics. Go read a book on wages then come back to the adults table.

Shhhh...let the commie have his little moment of thinking he's in the right