Not sure if this is the right place for this but I'm curious since I'm thinking about doing a fandub of a mid 2000s show.
I know T4S and a few other large abridging groups have been rekt by lawyers in recent times but will they go after small channels?
Are there any cases where abridging has won legally?
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Why would there be any legal problems? It's under parody, that's fair use
The repeated copy right strikes show the creators clearly don't care.
Parody's a pretty vague legal defence imo, it's something that could be construed as defamation too.
My thinking for defense would be that the original content has been so thoroughly transformed (my idea for the show doesn't follow the original plot at all) that misuse of IP can't be claimed
The issue is with making money off their IP, I dont think parody law protects you if youre outright using their footage.
They are completely, 100% illegal.
TFS only survives because Funimation likes them.
Nope. The difference is degree and amount of original content. With the exception of original graphics masked on top of things and extra special effects - any visual material within an Abridged episode is literally all just e.g. Dragon Ball Z content.
Don't sell merchandise of what you're abridging, and you should be ok.
>Parody's a pretty vague legal defence imo
>original content has been so thoroughly transformed
Iirc the only reason Weird Al got away with his parody music is that he redid the lyrics but also change the music itself so it isn't exactly the same notes. He changed it enough to make it different. Basically if you outright copy the show but redid the voices then upload it (regardless if free or not though adding a fee would most likely only make the original creators even more piss off) then it kinda a middle finger to the original creators and be outright stealing. If the content is new and in a weird way original enough then it can pass as a parody. Bonus points if you actually get permission to do it first though.
This user also have a point, no matter how you look at it you are using artwork that isn't your own. Unless you redid the animation itself or get permission to use it then the original creators kinda have the right to tell you to fuck off.
>What's the legal situation of fandubs and abridging these days?
They should fuck off and die
Just don't monetize and you're in the clear.
Not hard to understand, everyone who gets successful just happens to let it slip their mind when the potential to make full dosh from half a job done is at their feet.
>Inb4 remarks about how hard the fandubbers work to alter things
I'm not saying they don't work hard or at all, I'm saying the people who laid down the platform for the work and the fans around it never agreed to share the profits with a secondary source. There's fair use and then there's free loading.
Just think Sup Forums, if you put in time to make a comic or animation short and someone after the fact started filter fed from what you've gathered by doing a bunch of voice over vids, you wouldn't ask him what he's trying to pull?
I've got no beef with people who do a honest day's work, so long as they don't forget that honest part.
>I dont think parody law
There is no such law.
>They are completely, 100% illegal.
>TFS only survives because Funimation likes them.
Neither one of these things is true.
Weird Al always got the artist's permission before parodying their song. That's how he gets away with it. There were a few hiccups, like with Eminem and Lady Gaga, but for the most part, Al just asks. Most people feel honored, and say yes.
do not monetize your videos
They shill funimation literally every single episode
Amish Paradise.
Coolio was pissed about it. He asks out of kindness and respect to the artist. But no matter how upset (if upset) about the parody he releases, it's fair use.
usa branch likes them, JP branch hates them
They've had copyright strikes from funimation before. They got reversed.
>JP branch
That would be TOEI animation. Funimation is, if I'm not mistaken, just localization. Part of that is because Japan has no real fair use laws and they don't quite 'get' fair use.
Where does the law land then?
It's Japanese product so theoretically it's liable to their laws but most parodies are done in the US. Which country's rulebook would the case by fought over?
I'm sure most of them don't monetize their videos or even use youtube, for that matter, but they do earn cash through donations.
Coolio said no initially, then reconsidered.
Eminem forced Al to halt production on a music video for 'Couch Potato' (aka Lose Yourself), and prevented Al from releasing it as a single (it was still on the CD 'Poodle Hat').
As for Lady Gaga, her staff dicked Al around and told him she refused the parody, but it turned out she hadn't even heard it. She gave Al the green light and describes herself as a fan of his.
Typically the nation where it's produced.
People often cite this for the reason why china gets away with so many bootlegs. But that's somewhat erroneous. In China, it's common to start a new company and just move funds from one to the next and leave the debt or complaint with the former company. the former company can be closed or bankrupt and all its funds diverted to a new one and the former company remains liable while the new company is considered a completely separate entity.
But that's besides the point. Fair use generally requires the new material be trans-formative. Typically, this means in new or unexpected ways.
If the audio (the entire dialogue track) is changed in a significant fashion then it's likely to be considered transformative as the resulting parody is considered new or unexpected. The full material is not in its entirety being shown. The dialogue is changed or removed in this case and replaced with different dialogue.
>then reconsidered
>Although Yankovic traditionally secures permission from the artists he parodies (even though this is not legally required, as parodies are covered under fair use guidelines)and was told by his record label that Coolio had given permission, Coolio later claimed that he had not given such permission (and in fact publicly expressed disgust saying that Yankovic's parody "desecrated the song").
>Coolio stated in a 2014 interview that the decision to refuse the parody at the time was "stupid" and wished that someone on his management had stopped him, and considers the final parody to be "funny"
Backwards. He initially said no and later reconsidered and made up with Al.
T4S is outright making bank on their awful "parody", but since they're buddies with the American Funimation branch it doesn't matter if it breaks fair use or not.
Funimation owns exclusive Dragon Ball distribution rights here in Burgerville, meaning they have a say in what stays up and what goes down, not Toei.
Toei can take anything else they own off YouTube however. Kamen Rider, Sentai, etc.
The material is so much similar and displayed in a format where a person could watch the TFS parody and be just as up to speed as someone who watched a regular episode. That aside, they use animation produced by Toei and distributed by Funimation. If Funimation wanted to they could take them to court over just this and win the case easily, but again, they're buddies with the TFS fags.
I thought I should add:
There have been many song parodies over the years. A lesser known parody duo would be Pinkard & Bowden. I remember them mostly from tv ads
...But that's what I just said?
I'm not sure where the distinction is here.
>That aside, they use animation produced by Toei and distributed by Funimation.
This does not mean that they do not fall under fair use of parody. Using their animation is not non-transformative if the new work has completely reworked audio - in this instance used in an unexpected fashion.
> If Funimation wanted to they could take them to court over just this
They might be able to. But I severely doubt it would be an easy win. Or even a win.
I misunderstood then. But again, his permission was never required, even if weird al asks it anyway because weird al seems to be rather respectful.
Content wise T4S are digging themselves a fuck huge hole legally. With every episode their version of DBZ becomes more like the original and now they're pretty much following the course of the original to the letter except for some gimmicky characters
Is that tfs is getting fucked because they sell merch with dragon ball characters on it?
Most of the episodes I've seen of TFA have not been the full length release and omitted roughly half of it.
Usually. This is more pronounced with stuff like the movie parodies where most of the movie is cut out.
The issue is you can challenge such a claim in court and possibly win, but that costs money they know you don't have. So they throw out copyright strikes anyway hoping it'll just cow you into accepting it.
Doesn't matter if the law's on your side when you can't afford to prove it.
Chris Sabat got them jobs
The long and short of the answer here is this.
If it's on youtube, they're going to side with the creator as much as possible and if the creator wants to fling a copyright strike your way, the burden of proof shifts on you proving it's fair use and you have to make a case for proving how and why.
My advice would be make a riff track and offer it separately. People play the riff track with the particular episode. Done. You're 100% in the clear that way.
I stand thoroughly corrected. They're going to be doing some of their own dubs now - and that's great.
>know T4S and a few other large abridging groups have been rekt by lawyers in recent times
What? Fuck, is DBZAbridged kill?
I KNEW THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE MONETIZED
I WARNED YOU. I WARNED YOU ABOUT MONETIZATION BRO
T4S is taking a personal hiatus.
It might be related to the fact that now they're doing an official dub (for Hells)
>an official dub
So..what they're doing voice acting work or something?
I hear it's all Grant's fault.
>So..what they're doing voice acting work or something?
That is what I'm being lead to believe on their channel.
It's an anime adaption for hell's angels.
Well they've done voice work before. Takhata,Lani and Kaiser were in Xenoverse and then there was this gem:youtu.be
HOLY shit I forgot about this. It's such a trainwreck, I love it.
Oh god, it feels so forced in such a bad way.
This is fantastic.
Too bad Toei didn't. They made them pull the TFS voices at the last minute, leaving them no choice but to use the old DBZ dub audio. Only Krillin talking about Mr. Satan merchandise survived to the final version.
Two nukes weren't enough.
Japan doesn't really get the whole fair use thing.
It's (partly) why nintendo is so anal about takedowns of any playthroughs of their games all the time.
Not just that, but Lani and Kaiser's done addtional voices for other Funi shows like One Piece and Ping Pong.
wish they got the TFS team to do the English dub of Super desu
As the third season's gone on, the episodes contain more and more of the actual material and fighting and significantly less humor, with episodes running over twenty minutes. It's the reason I stopped watching.
A good 50% of their fanbase is going to jump ship right after Cell dies, so it makes sense for them to start branching out.
>Just don't monetize and you're in the clear.
Non-profit videos are taken off youtube every minute.
Why will fans jump ship after cell? Also I heard they aren't doing Buu saga
See how many already jumped after Freeza. The episodes aren't worse, it just has worse material to work with.
I'm still betting something happened with Kaiser.
I have to admit i'm not looking forward to Goten or Trunks. Nor can I see how they can do anything with Buu
>Listening to Sub
>Ever
I can't take hearing the same shitty Japanese voices
>T4S and a few other large abridging groups have been rekt by lawyers
What do you mean? I've just checked their channel and all DBZ Abridged episodes are still available.
why not just write an email or give the company a call? why do people have to do everything behind companies' backs when you can just outright ask them whether you're allowed to do it or whether they are willing to partner up with you since you are probably providing their brand with customer awareness?
If it was me, I'd even outright ask them whether it's alright for them to split potential future profits
The movies are a pretty good tell on what happens when they have nothing to work with. it has its moments but we're not getting infinitely quotable lines like I WILL MOUNT YOUR HEAD WHERE MY TAIL USED TO BE
>Hearing subtitles
>Watching Seven Samurai dubbed
There's a special hell for people like you. It's called Your Life.
the answer is "no and if you try we will sue you into oblivion thanks for letting us know you exist so we can watch for you"
>If it was me, I'd even outright ask them whether it's alright for them to split potential future profits
>Split profits
I legit had a giggle m8
Most parodies use heavy editing of the video, though.
You can - I've done so in the past, but they usually impose limitations on what you're allowed to use, which can be something along the lines of "you may only use these 5 .jpgs and the copyright has to be visible at all times"
there's literally no difference between you outright telling them and them finding out after 2 years. well, maybe the fact that they could sue you harder for having made several videos and maybe even made profit off them
>I legit had a giggle m8
If you have zero negotiation skills, you honestly shouldn't even consider making videos because any company will fuck you up in that situation.
do you even understand the term copyright? fuck me, it's as if people on this board are outright mentally retarded
they drew the shit so they own every single frame. period.
No company, will ever. EVER. EVVEERR
let someone else profit off of their property. There is no "splitting". Team 4 Star only survives due to special circumstances
T4S is hit with copyright strikes because of their Patreon making money of DBZ art.
Ultra Fast Pony is my favorite abridged series. Best episode: youtube.com
I thought the Broly one was fantastic.
Like you.
depends on the company probably but if you have them that far, you can probably go all out on that bitch.
the biggest mistake though would be talking to a representative. what you really want to do is talk to the highest ranking person possible because that's the person that can hook you up with everything. that person most of the time also doesn't have any clue about the property, so he/she is more likely to grant you more rights to begin with. if you want to go even further, just call up the creator and try to convince them to help you out
everyone here is acting as if companies are big bad assholes when literally everyone here would have something against other people using your property without asking you
Some of the movies are pretty good. Bojack's coming up, which they've been building up since episode 3 or some shit.
This is good advice, japan in general is a million times more likely to accept than some office in france.
I want to die and/or kill someone
>This is good advice, japan in general is a million times more likely to accept than some office in france
I believe that especially, if it's a Japanese company we are talking about, it's more likely to be able to negotiate something proper. Asian businesses like when someone from the West is interested in them. Either they will outright give you a big no or they will say yes. Problem could be that the process could take a lot of time though
t. Guy who lived in China for half a year
>Split profits
You mean 'we take everything or we shut you down'
I'd suck his dick
Look up Osomatsu San episode 1. It was taken off Crunchyroll because it parodies a bunch of anime and removed from the blu ray release in Japan. Even it didn't use any scenes and was a huge parody of characters from the show dressing up and referencing a bunch of different anime. They really are strict with their copyright shit.
I feel like the extra lip flap animation and various effects work used in DBZA should count the same as Al's minor changes to the notes in his songs
the issue with TFS is they signed a loosely defined agreement to be "brand ambassadors' for toei et al, then bagged out DBS, the current principal product, on public social media.
and their position as "brand ambassadors" is all that lets them monetize their endeavor
so they got busted with a stricter contract and a six month blow-over mandatory hiatus
>"parody"
>it's sometimes a entire 1:1 of the actual show's storyline but with 'jokes' sliced in here and there
The people who take DBZA very seriously are lowly people.
I don't think that's quite the criteria a court would use to judge it. Do you really think some old ass judge is going to learn the plot of DBZ to determine whether DBZA is too similar?
Ugh there's so many misconceptions being thrown around here...
Christopher Sabat (the dub director for Dragonball Kai and Super as well as Xenoverse) loves Team Four Star and actually participated in an episode under an alias. He's the one who kind of makes sure TFS is protected, at least from FUNimation. Not much he can do against Toei, who likes to nuke the channel around April every year.
The recent hiatus I believe is due to Kaiser having a bit of a crisis. He's done some ADR work for FUNi but I've heard his association with DBZA has gotten FUNi in trouble and they can't bring him in anymore, which is a blow to his professional aspirations. That's why he is working his ass off on Hells, to give himself and TFS professional cred.
I do believe that TFS is going to attempt to transition to original material sometime next year, and this hiatus is preparation for that. I don't believe Kaiser wants to do Buu Saga as that would easily be another 40 episodes if not more and that's another 5-6 years at the very least. So I think this hiatus is them preparing to cancel DBZA, either after Cell is done, or just leave it hanging.
Hellsing Abridged is almost done so that will be finished sometime next year, and Taka's FF7 vanity piece of raw unadulterated shit will keep going for another season too.
But the writing's on the wall for DBZA and I think that's getting obvious. That's why that Bento alt-channel has been made, and they got a new logo with zero DBZ connotations created. Good luck to them, they'll need it.
P.S. An exception to the TFS embargo is Amber Lee Connors, aka TFS 18. FUNi still brings her in, but note she is always cast in a role that is youthful or higher pitched, keeping her well away from her 18 voice. Probably not a coincidence.
I can't tell if you're trolling or retarded when it comes to abridged tastes.
6 MONTHS?! I already watched FF7 abridged and it wasn't even funny.
My nigga
He's saying a rifftrack won't sync, you moron.
>Make an "abridged" spoof
>End up reaching the point where they're more or less playing it straight with manga-appropriate pacing
>"But we aren't monetizing it! Also buy our t-shirts!"
>Make a normal video game playthrough channel.
>Start adopting all of the industry lures for children to monetize better
I hate everything about them and how they operate.
It's literally why axel Braun gets to makearvel porn parodies and Star Wars because under the law as long as he makes it obvious it's a porn parody he can do it even going as far as to use direct quotes from the films
But all of Al's instrumentation is his own, regardless of what notes match or don't match. TFS are taking direct animation from the original and that's not even remotely comparable to what Al does. For it to be like Al, they'd have to redraw the scenes themselves. Their edits are not enough.
Still fucking mad.
I would trade all of DBZA for more of this
This is amazing
Nah Funi loves them. They use their style of humor for their dub of DBS, their Kai redition of Frieza was inspired by them, and they did some voices for the Xenoverse games.
Whoever owns the DB IP in Japan hates them.
>there's so many misconceptions being thrown around here
>so let me pull up shit without concrete proof
Wouldn't hosting on a non-youtube platform mostly solve the issue?
Sure you miss out on a lot of exposure but I'm pretty companies aren't as anal about more minor streaming platforms.
Why is the JP branch ass blasted?
>The episodes aren't worse, it just has worse material to work with.
Weird, one would it would be easier to make fun the worse the original content is.
Cell just isn't as interesting as Frieza. He spends so much time just standing around waiting for people to come fight him.
>I don't believe Kaiser wants to do Buu Saga
I don't mind them not doing Buu Saga. I always got the sensation it would just turn in to a shitshow.
Japs always gets buttblasted when someone consume their media in way they dont like, same shit happened with Nintendo spaming dmcas lately