It's been 20 years since The Principal and the Pauper first aired...

It's been 20 years since The Principal and the Pauper first aired. Is it really as bad as we thought it was back in the day?

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This episode never really bothered me. Mostly because I never took continuity in cartoons too seriously.

I don't know why people think it's bad, looks like a pretty normal simpson episode before the great cataclism

not only is it just as bad as we thought, it's worse because we can see this was the start of Zombie Sinpsons. no one in 1997 imagined this shit going for another 20 years but here we are

It was actually one of thier better pre-zombie episodes. Nice meta commentary about desperatly trying to keep the statusquo.

Seymour Skinner
Formerly Armin Tamzarian

It's not really that bad in terms of its jokes or content so much as what it did to Skinner. Even then, looking back it wasn't SO bad compared to what was to come. If anything it was an ill omen.

>it's worse because we can see this was the start of Zombie Sinpsons

Nobody cares about your grade school insights, Eyepatch Mick

it is objectively bad because Seymour isn't the one they've been showing you for a long time. Sure there is no continuity and it was just a random episode that led to no follow up but you just can't get the feeling that you aren't really watching Seymour being him anymore and just someone pretending to be someone else

The episode itself doesn't bother me too much especially because it takes the piss out of itself so thoroughly, especially at the end. The episode itself is fully aware of how fucking stupid the premise is and it's constantly taking shots at it.

But I don't begrudge anybody who takes it as kind of symbolic as "yeah this is where things start to really fuck off." because the concept is still pretty outlandish and things only got worse after.

>20 years

christ

Not even him but who the fuck is that? Zombie Simpsons has been a term for about a decade now, and this is often cited as what was potentially the start of it. Just because some stupid what I assume to be internet critic or youtube talking head brought it up doesn't mean they're the first person to think of it.

Same here. Remember when Homer blew up the convention hall in Homer Badman? That was definitely canon

>I'm keeping you! You're Snowball V! But to save money on a new dish, we'll just call you Snowball II, and pretend this whole thing never happened.
>That's really a cheat, isn't it
>I guess you're right, Principal Tamzarian
>I'll just be moving along, Lisa. Snowball Two.
I kind of liked this bit

homer badman is literally the best simpsons episode ever written though

>Implying anyone on Sup Forums was born 20 years ago

I was thinking about that too when I saw this thread and then I thought. Shouldn't Lisa have been tortured for that?

Simpsons fans are unbelievably stupid people for thinking that there is such a thing as a Simpsons Canon.

Simpsons fans are irredeemable in general. Just look at any given Simpsons thread on Sup Forums.

I'm nostalgically pining for the day that this was the worst Simpsons episode.

It has some pretty damn good jokes, and continuity was never that important in The Simpsons.

The "Jasper didn't want to come by himself" joke is one of the best in the show, in my opinion.

Super Eyepatch Wolf did a video about Zombie Simpin. youtube.com/watch?v=KqFNbCcyFkk

Hey, we are just trying to figure out what the fuck Sneeds was all about.

Isn't it ironic that one of the most hated Simpsons episode also contain one of the most liked scene?
youtube.com/watch?v=8BotWIneJlc

Is Skinner still a Vietnam vet?

The entire joke surrounding this episode is that it's making fun of early usenet posters who would bitch about continuity being violated any time the writers added a new element to any characters' backstory. Their response was to introduce a retcon so ridiculous that even the people of Springfield called bullshit on it. The episode is way more amusing with that context.

Yes.

This. The commentary track talks about it. The writer for the episode only regrets that it ended up being a bit too subtle, so the people it was making fun of are still bitching about it today.

only Sup Forums dislikes this episode.

where do you think the basement stairs' should be located in the simpsons' house?

most floorplans you see have the basement stairs going under the garage. which is stupid. because no one would put 6 tons of car and cement over a basement.

so the best candidates
>under the stairs to the second floor. door either in the kitchen or under the stairs.
>first floor foyer closet door.
>that hall from the kitchen to the garage and rumpus room, but not going under the garage.

plot armor is that strong i guess

It's just through the kitchen door that doesn't lead to the dining room or tv room.

Specifically the Beer Baron episode shows the basement being where the hall closet is.
It seems to switch between being a closet and the basement door as is needed.

I'm not talking about memes. I'm talking about the genuine obsessives who still complain about the show 2 decades after it jumped the shark.

That type of person is irredeemable.

Negative Continuity.

everything that has ever happened in the simpsons, outside of tree house of horror, is cannon. They just get to ignore the consequences of it happening. mr. burns being shot by maggie has always been brought up. the simpsons' future where lisa is president, bart is a bum until he becomes a supreme court justice, is always going to happen.

>Ich bin nicht Seymour! Mein Name ist Armin, das ist Armins Apartment, Armins Schnaps, Armins Sexheftchen und das da sind gefrorene Erbsen!

>Though he never comes out and says it--It's time to kill The Simpsons--Shearer does say there have been many times when he and the other cast members have had to castigate writers for being too careless with the characters. He mentions one episode in particular: "The Principal and the Pauper," which aired in September 1997. Writer Ken Keeler handed over a script in which Principal Skinner (voiced by Shearer) is revealed to be, in fact, a former "no-good street punk" named Armin Tamzarian--a little plot point that negates seven years' worth of back story. When Shearer saw the story, he was quite unhappy. And unable to do a damned thing about it.

>"I said, 'That's so wrong. You're taking something that an audience has built eight years or nine years of investment in and just tossed it in the trash can for no good reason, for a story we've done before with other characters. It's so arbitrary and gratuitous, and it's disrespectful to the audience,'" he recalls. "Then it was, 'OK, action.'" He laughs. "Really."

Everyone is 12 year old girls here.

It was a bit dumb, but the ending made it perfectly clear that the episode wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Compare it to any modern episode, and its still a classic. Its only really still infamous at this point because it was one of the earliest examples of an episode that recieved a negative reaction when it premiered.

Tamzarian is sitll a vietnam veteran. so nothing about his backstory changes. other than the fact he took Skinner's place.

Who cares, it's been retconned.

Armando Barreda

It's a Skinner episode, so it was a good one.

they should shift everyone's backstory up a generation or two.

skinner can be a gulf war vet
abe can be a vietnam vet

It's a pretty decent episode with a really stupid plot.

When there's objectively much, MUCH worse out there when it comes to episodes. I wouldn't say it's good by any stretch of the imagination. The only reason why it's not as bad as those episodes is both:

A) this episode took the piss out of itself, even if it was misguided in the grand scheme of things.
B) Seasons 13 onward exist.

It was? When?

Well, time to kill myself

Well, if you ignore the retcon bullshit this episode still had some good jokes, while modern simpsons's comedy is TBBT-tier

Only if you're an autist

>a little plot point that negates seven years' worth of back story.
>You're taking something that an audience has built eight years or nine years of investment in and just tossed it in the trash can for no good reason
This is some of the most overdramatic shit I've read.

>Agnes, however, cautions Marge not to let emotions get in the way of winning, relating how a fetal kick by an unborn Seymour foiled her chances at winning gold in pole vault at the 1952 Summer Olympics in Helsinki.

simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Boy_Meets_Curl

People get invested in characters and stories, user.

>tfw your "son" is borrowing your car
>cracked up laughing

>Homer went to go work for a literal James Bond style supervillain
>"lol Skinner faking his identity is too far and breaks the continuity"

Reminder that The Principal and the pauper didn't kill the Simpsons. That episode was produced by Oakley-Weinstein, the characterizations, good humor, etc. were still intact, "classic" in that episode and not yet full retard.

Sure, the plot of Skinner being an impostor was silly, but that episode didn't have things like a ship being bounced out of the water by springs, or Homer being treated as the center of the universe and hanging out with celebrities.

It's Mike Scully who killed the Simpsons. If you want episodes that truly signified the downfall of the show, these are more fitting picks:
>Lost our lisa (second half is what changed Homer for the worse. He's supposed to hate his life, not be some daredevil on the edge)
>When you dish upon a star
>Kidney trouble
>Sunday cruddy sunday
>Monty can't buy me love
>The old man and the c student (this is the one that actually destroyed Skinner's character. He gave Bart of all people a showcase, which is unusually dim for his character, and later punches Springy-Homer in the face for what Bart did, which is retarded and out of character)
>Saddlesore galactica
>Kill the alligator and run
>Alone again natura-diddily

These episodes were the true point of no return.

>Up yours, children
Probably one of my most quoted simpsons lines

Literally who would care for Skinner at that degree?

Keep telling yourself that.

Even there's not continuity of PLOT, there needs to be continuity of CHARACTER otherwise who gives a shit about what happens to these people in the story?

If you really want to read into it I doubt Skinner would report it to anyone knowing she would be tortured if he did. And she probably knew he wouldnt

Literally the episode itself with its "lets never speak of this again" ending. The only time it was referenced again was in another episode doing something similar.

>Lost Our Lisa
>bad

Fuck you, I liked it.

Skinner was an important character to Bart. Bart is one of the leads of the series. Bart rebeling against a former rebeler, liar and overall fraud disheartens the nature of Skinner. That there simply straight laced good people who don't want butts and pranks going on. That skinner thwarting Bart is a hypocrisy and Barts antagonist is weakened as a result.

Still the reviews always read like Someone was unaware the Simpsons was a comedy.

You'd think it was a melodramatic comedy-drama slice of life from what they're saying. Characters develop and even age and shit.

This is kinda why I don't take the super diehard fans seriously. I could see an argument for the first 2 seasons being sorta 'drama"-ish, but Seasons 4+ were very much joke first, story second with the episodes, With season 3 being transitional.

That's why the loud house is in /trash/.

Why did people think it was bad?

Some of the most popular episodes of the classic era were Skinner episodes.

The ending was the beginning of the show's Scullyfication.

In the classic era of seasons 1-8, Homer is supposed to HATE his shitty blue collar life. However, in seasons 9 and up when Mike Scully took over, this began to change as Homer became a sort of zany superhero daredevil who lives his life "on the edge" by hanging out with celebrities and breaking into the super bowl.

Then how did Moleman survive pretty much everything that happened to him?

What part of "fuck you, I liked it." don't you understand?

I like Shearer but this begs another question, why didn't the other VAs do more to keep Yeardley Smith away from the writers?

The last episode of the simpsons better be homer and bart watching Itchy and Scratchy, an eldery Jay Sherman shows up to piss off Matt Groening.

The premise was just so utterly ridiculous and it shit on everything we knew about seymour,

Remember all the flashbacks where the soldiers were having fun and Skinner was the only straight-laced one?
Well it's all retconned and now he was one of the rebels.