Say hello

To the real Cap.

It's really fucked up, we have another Teen Tony situation and everybody is ignoring it again.

Well last year was Clone Saga 2 the Metal Years. I guess it's the 90s again.

No, thats not the real cap user, read the fucking book

Say hello to Idealized and old memories Cap created by Nick Spencer.

.....what the hell happened in this book?

Um secret empire calls good cap a memory. Hydra cap is using real caps old body.

You read the book. The real Cap is Hydra after being mindraped via reality manipulation. The fake Cap is America after being artificially created via reality manipulation and inherited real Cap's pre-mindraped memories.

...

...

...

_________Hello_______

Spencer said the good Cap is the real Cap in the same way the current MU is the real thing after Secret Wars killed everyone.

nothing good. pretty much par for the course with Event Books.

Comic book characters aren't real.

Real as in now but not the orgional

I fucking hate Kobik. Who first wrote her?

some asshole

Nick spencer. But her name was mentioned pre secret wars in marvel point one.

And used to be red skulls old cosmic cube that broke.

Trips confirm, Hail Hydra

leave.

So countless lives were lost because some asshole thought "the scars should remain so we learn from them" even though they have a do over button? HEROES EVERYBODY!

Morrison says otherwise.

Man Civil War 2 looks real confusing.

Why is she so ugly?

This event was so goddamn toothless because aside from some stupid Drumpf shot saber rattling, they never particularly fleshed out why Evil Cap was 'bad' other than that he was 'fascist' and 'fascism is bad'. It was a morality tale on par with the Star Wars prequels. Muh Democracy. We never know what Cap is really after, he never displays any genuine racism. The world he creates with the cube looks like a goddamn fantasy kingdom and aside from a statue of some dude in chains, we don't know whats really wrong with it. Clearly it's not actually some Nazi paradise because Blacktain America is still there, and Bad Cap seems to respect him and thanks him for handing over the cube. Fucking shit, before the end Bad Cap tries to reconcile with them, saying he understands they think they're doing the right thing but they're wrong.

Instead they leave it all nebulous so Bad Cap can be whatever political badness the reader conjures in their mind. It's all so half hearted, so limp dicked. Full of sound and fury, signifying NOTHING. And the perminant changes are such a hilarious cop put, I don't know how they can be anything but fucking embarassed by this whole affair. Pro tip, if you want to take a stand for something, you NEED A CAUSE TO STAND FOR FIRST. DON'T JUST SHAKE YOUR FISTS AT SOMETHING UNDEFINED AND THEN ACT LIKE YOUR ENDING IS MOVING AND ELEGAIC.

>he never displays and genuine racism
Wasn't he putting people in concentration camps?

Does anyone else kind of hate everything about comics at this point? This whole shitfuck of an event just sort of catalyzed the feeling in me. I hope Marvel crashes the industry and it all dies. Fuck comics, they're trash. Or at least fuck superhero comics.

Is this end times shit?

What people? What were the camps for? Do we know they were execution camps? This would be great to explore, show us Cap secretly trying to exterminate the Jews.

>Fuck these writers, they're trash
The whole sorry affair is the fault of piss-poor writing and ever pisser-poorer editing and management.

That's what it all is. There's still good stories to be told, but people are too fixated on making some kind of vague statement for recognition than actually telling a good story.

So this is just basically gonna be Teen Tony all over again, right? Wherein the replacement slowly becomes the original and the original is gone forever?

Please stop lumping other comics in with Marvel.

So the real cap and everything that came before is quickly forgotten.

Why the fuck didn't they merge afterward? It would have solved at least one or two loose ends. Who was asking for more stories with vaguely evil fascist Cap, who only went full fascist in the the eleventh hour anyway? What does this accomplish? Marvel orchestrated a character assassination so thorough the only solution was to literally replace the character with an in-universe imaginary version of him. And now they'll have to hope we all forget about the "original", like when Kang turned Tony into a psycho. Like, fuck, that might be the most cynical thing I've seen in a comic book.

So was his son Kraken or what?

It's suprising. Merging would be good development for Cap to have first hand memories of what he could have become. If not, then what was the point in Spencer making Hydra Cap sympathetic and truly Steve if he was just going to become "Evil Cap" a recurring villain of the week?

the whole thing was pure bullshittonium cooked up because they wanted an exscuse to kill widow and generate some canned heat for Cap for something else down the line.

They are literally WWE tier writers now. We are watching goddamn wrestling in comic form. Sam is Roman Fucking Reigns, Cap is John Cena.

Charge your ipad, bro.

He put Inhumans/Nuhumans in camps. Seemingly to keep them segregated and nothing else.

I dunno, some people liked the 90s.

Anyone who thinks this isn't what the government would actually do if mutants and inhumans existed is mcfucking kidding themselves. Obama would be signing executive order Safety Camp on the spot, people would take pictures, they'd emphasize how comfortable and humane the camps were while not letting reporters anywhere near them

Shit we did it to the Japs during WW2 and they're almost human

>original cap is permanently brainwashed into believing he's hydra even though it's shown that he was really fucked with by kobik

>duplicate cap has the mind of the original cap so it's basically a mind swap

What a mess that doesn't really matter. This should've taken place in Cap's mind but I guess having the world see the two fight is the easiest way to let everyone know that Hydracap is someone else.

Of course having Kobik undo everything would've been better but Marvel can't go back on its word.

This will never stop bothering me. I came back from a drive and I remembered this..they ruined the cap we all knew and loved. And was replaced by a fake Cap.

>Do we know they were execution camps?
on paper they weren't, but the place was filled with very trigger happy guards doing daily random searches for any excuse to vaporize any of the inhabitants

>Who was asking for more stories with vaguely evil fascist Cap, who only went full fascist in the the eleventh hour anyway?
Bendis wants to write a Dark Avengers book

Given mutants track records can you blame them?

>ripping off DC's the crime syndicate when the Thunderbolts already exist

pottery

It's because Spencer wants the praise for "tackling tough issues" but he's too much of a coward to approach what those issues actually are.

Exactly and it's fucking infuriating. And the fucking "and everyone stood up and applauded" way it ended where he had the BALLS to compare his shit to Cap standing up to Thanos

Here's what I realized -- Hydra Cap needed to be better at his job. He needed to be insidious by being so genuinely appealing. He absolutely needed to be doing the right thing in the wrong way this whole time, like Doom did when he conquered the world and brainwashed people into peace. Cap needed to succeed, but they keep playing up the fact that there's resistance, that everyone knows he's evil and that you, the reader, are supposed to believe he'll fail in the end somehow. But Cap's too pure a symbol for that -- he's been a relentless rolemodel of righteousness, so naturally, Hydracap needed to be exactly as appealing in the opposite way. None of this self-doubting malarky, none of Kobik copping out by screaming "Oh no, I made a mistake, this is terrible!! Terrible!" We needed to be cheering for Hydracap, even thought we know it's supposed to be wrong.

>Clearly it's not actually some Nazi paradise because Blacktain America is still there
Shitty reasoning. Falcon was only there because his fragment protected him
Not that I disagree with you, mind you. HydraCap showed no signs of being racist

>implying everyone wasn't
>imply Cap hasn't joined Cyclops in the Pantheon of Nothing Wrong

Civil war 2 and secret empire, are we in the political age?

mahvels been political since the 70's when it first got hip to be an activist

DC too, though they generally did it a bit better (except the drug issue lol)

I know I was cheering him on up until Secret Empire actually laid it all out and you could see how stupid and threadbare the whole plan was. Especially Las Vegas. No Cap would ever nuke Las Vegas just to prove a point, that's just Spencer trying to tie a twirling mustache onto him to you know he's definitely evil. Cap wouldn't nuke some alien species unless it was an absolute last resort, Hydra Cap wouldn't either.

It's funny cause at the start Hydra Cap absolutely was this. He decided Red Skull was too evil and incompetent. He showed loyalty to his minions. He used the carrot and the stick

"WHY DID YOU SAVE THE BOMBERS LIFE?"
"I saw no reason to let a loyal follower die, my lord"

Kobik thought that. Kobik is the fucking worst.

Early Hydra Cap was a treasure. I never thought I'd say it, but there it is.

That was, honestly, the only thing I liked about it. Early Cap was just better at being evil because he was a nice guy about being evil. Like Dr. Doom without the Ego. A villain you could actually imagine gathering an evil army to himself. He was basically Big Boss

Hail Hydra

I'd read a "What If" with Cap as s Big Boss figure going up against the Illuminati/Patriots/Shield. Hell, that's why The Winter Soldier worked so well.

Howard/Tony could make a good Huey/Otacon too.

That was one of the stupidest things about this comic. Which idiots thought this made any sense as a story?

>hydracap starts off as a keikaku master fooling everyone, overthrowing red skull, and simultaneously taking over america while getting rid of most of the heroes
>secret empire hydracap is always completely unnerved from the stuff he has to do and is constantly backstabbed and caught by surprise until the big finale needed a big dumb final boss in power armor so he just went along with it

Forget the second Cap that was the original coming back, there were two Hydracaps and we ended up with the incompetent one for the event.

Hydra cap is the real cap with altered past, new cap is a back-up from an earlier version.

Hey I haven't been keeping up with this is Cap still a nazi?

There's two Caps. Nazi Cap and Nice Cap

>cap is altered by kobik the living cosmic cube girl into being a hydra agent
>kobik realizes how wrong that was and she brings back the original steve in a new body
>hydra steve is still alive and taken into custody
>both steves have a heart to heart
>original steve leaves hydra steve in the maximum security prison and then a guard whispers hail hydra to hydra steve
>oh and red skull is still dead

So Steve's original body now belongs to his Hydra self and his original memories are in a new body. All so that Marvel won't look like a bunch of liars when they said that the cosmic cube wasn't going to change everything back at the end.

>No Cap would ever nuke Las Vegas just to prove a point,
He didn't, Zemo did and gave him the credit. But still, Hydra Cap should've stopped him.

Steve and Stevevil

I feel like half the event should've taken place in Hydra Cap's idealized world. I mean not only is there a character that is semi-immune to reality changes, he could build a machine that could undo Cosmic Cube alterations. Part of me wants to believe there was executive meddling because of the Hydracap backlash.

And not only was Standoff written by Spencer, it was the first appearance of Hydracap.

Stevil

Star Wars prequels were not a morality tale, they were a worldbuilding tale. The only "moral" in Star Wars is about the worth of one's family and love in relation to everything else in the world.

Vader de-facto killed himself two times because of muh family and was content with it in the end.

I only read Young Animal at this point in terms of superhero comics

>and his original memories are in a new body.
Functionally, yes. Semantically, not quite. Kobik's memories of Steve are in a new body. So its not even a direct transplant of Steve's memories into a new body. Its a photocopy of a photocopy.

Yeah, Cap's America didn't seem all that bad. It's like when Doctor Doom takes over the entire world and sets up free universal health care and cures cancer and doombots do all the dangerous jobs and everyone has a universal basic income and can do whatever they want with their lives and then the heroes come through a time portal and destroy it all because "THATS DOCTOR DOOM!!".

This was a terrible event, terribly written, from a terrible company. And it ruined cap because it replaced real cap with a copy created from partial memories.

So in this whole arch the red skull convinces cosmic cube kid to change cap into a hydra agent. Then she gets shattered and the world get progressively more messed up. Then they gather all the pieces of the CCK and she comes back to "fix" stuff and brings back a version of captain america that she remembers. the two caps fight photocopy cap win and CCK decides to "I need to go, my planet needs me." and leaves the world all screwed up and broken as a lesson to everyone? what was the lesson exactly? I'm thinking if you find a cosmic cube or a super powerful godlike being that is the embodiment of a cosmic cube smash it bury it and nuke the area so no one can go near where you buried it.

>that one user who's obsessed with teen Tony and constantly wants writer to bring it up even though Heroes Reborn made that irrelevant