"God"

Ask about god. Religion is, overall, mostly shit. God is a different issue. Maybe you've wondered about this vein of topic but felt the force of the mainstream current going the other direction. Let's discuss it now.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=qFjjA_Pt4AQ
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_correlates_of_consciousness
boundless.com/psychology/textbooks/boundless-psychology-textbook/language-10/human-language-408/human-vs-animal-language-236-12771/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down
telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/09/11/dolphins-recorded-having-a-conversation-for-first-time/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>tfw to smart to believe in some fake being. Keep praying away you lemmings, I'm here with my eyes open listening to the echos of the universe.

Kek is giving you dubs as a sign to reconsider

>to
too

Man I'm old. Sup Forums was atheism central. Is it really counterculture to be religious now?

You kids need something better to get mad over.

Reconsider the existence of god?

Yes

>incorrect post number
>pic_related.jpg

No, not to be religious. To I'm wondering about if there is a supreme behind everything. Not religion.

>tfw reconsidering what is unreconsiderable is facile and futile so I won't even try.
>There is no god
>Try to reconsider god
0 x reconsider = 0
>ggwp

I'm beginning to entertain the idea that there does exist "god". I didn't before.

The statistical improbability of the universe forming and being just the way it needs to be for the formation of complex life, let alone human life, is so tremendously ridiculous that I can't see it happening without intervention. There are literally infinite possibilities the early universe could have taken instead of our reality that would have made life as we know it impossible.

Why didn't you believe in some higher power before?

If there is a God, where are they?

What do you think is the most compelling proof that God exist?

I'm 18. I grew up on reddit (i know that doesn't fly here, but you all can be as you will) and the whole atheist mantra was stuffed up my asshole. But, it was good in the sense that it pointed out the flaws in religion namely christianity. I started to think on my own, and then it hit me how bizarre the universe is and I'm with upon the whole probability thing. I've thought of that before.

Because people have a hard time grasping the concept of a "beginning" or an "end" to time, when the universe (space & time) as we perceive it has been endless. It had no beginning and it won't have an end. The Big Bang (or whatever cosmic event occurred that we consider to be the 'start' of the universe) was merely the "reset" in a constantly repeating cycle of matter and energy playing itself out over trillions of years.

As long as the universe has existed, who's not to say that within the laws of physics, we just happen to be that one statistical anomaly? The universe is so large that it could be filled with failed attempts at life, intelligent or not, and we'd never be aware of their existences. We may simply be the anomaly in that we've survived this long.

God and religion are people's attempts to attribute meaning to concepts that are simply outside the realm of understanding for mankind. Similarly, people have trouble accepting the idea that there things in the universe we don't, and in fact may not be capable of, understanding.

Who are we, such tiny fish in such a large pond, to think that we could ever even possibly "know" who created everything that exists?

There is nothing there. Make the best of your life and treat others well because it will make you happy, not because of how you'll be judged by some non-existent figure.

that's a tough question with alot of angles to attack.... Hold on I'll try to write out a little schmick about what you're poking at...

I don't think god is real, but the idea of god is, and the impact of the belief in god is real.

Because of the reality of god's impact, i am religious but not spiritual.

I started going to church again, and am in the process of getting confirmation. I have been reading Thomas Aquinas, and C.S. Lewis more than any other theologians. (The screwtape Letters are amazing).

Society needs religion, atheistic societies are dysfunctional.

Almost all of Christianity is a proxy for family values. Drug addicts hurt family, the selfish hurt family, Homosexuals hurt family (and are essentially more expensive miscarriages), all the various vices hurt family.

Christianity as i see it (and this is a paralleled in most religions) has two primary functions, promoting the survival of itself, and the family of its adherents. New children in the family of followers tends to equal new followers hence religion must promote the health of its host followers.


If god is truly there, then i hope i will be taken in kindly.

If god is not there, then i will tell the story of god so that it might bring goodness to the lives of those who hear it.

Peace be with you anons.

conciousness.

Lots of claims. 0 evidence. Fuck off.

See, I'm on the flip side. I believe that religion is dated, but spirituality is most important....Fuck I shouldn't have made this post when I was so tired. Can't think straight.

this
It disgusts me trying to think about it. Makes no sense

That is fair.

Small request, dont end up like the hordes of spirituals who consider whatever path they are taking to be good, and whatever path they don't take to be bad.

In return i will be working to correct hypocrisy in the church.

My entire "philosophy" I guess you could say, stems from this.

My biggest issue is that the ancient scripts every religion is based on have most definitely been lost in translation to some degree. I don't think they're wrong outright, but I don't think their right. I think their describing the realization or enlightenment of a few individuals, and are a watered down account or an attempt to lay out the path to what the enlightened found.

That is why you read the original scriptures, or in the original language.

Just read Job 38. God will set you straight.

Christianity (and other religions) were ways of teaching people ways to live through the use of stories, proverbs, etc. It's no different than a young child learning morals from children's books and TV shows. It's how people were educated before we had any forms of formal education in this world.

Society needs religion but that doesn't validate the existence of a God. All the impact that you say God has are the direct results of people; whether or not you want to make the argument that they may be acting as "vessels" or some sort for a supreme being is up to you, but since there's no credible way to prove so, I see no reason to believe.

Explore spirituality outside the confines of modern religion. Christianity exists to sustain itself as a corporate entity in the United States. Look how much political power is influenced by religion. Christianity is a tool.

Claims without evidence is the entirety of religion. Obviously I don't have cold, hard facts to back up all of my claims. They're theories because there is no possible way we could -know- these things for sure.

Look up "Big Bounce" for an explanation of the theory that the whole "Big Bang" event occurs in a cycle. The universe could just as well end in the expense of all entropy and heat death of all matter.

If the timeline of our universe was a calendar, with midnight on January 1st being the Big Bang, and 11:59 of December 31st being the present, we're not even more than a few minutes in.

Humanity is so new and tiny on the scale of the universe. We just happened to become smart enough to think about things like this. The universe is huge enough, infinitely so, that who's to say there isn't simultaneously a trillion different planets out there with some form of life evolving on them?

It's not as simple as this. Think about the little changes language does over a few decades. It can be noticable. Imagine that effect over thousands of years. We may never know exactly what they meant.

They are not even legitimate theories.

A lot of the Bible takes place in real places, with real people. The Bible is very specific. The only place this holds true is with God. And no theologian has ever tried to use nature to prove God, it is completely faith based, believing in God.

Next time don't try to use religion being completely faith based as an argument when all of your "theories" are completely based on nothing.

My gut, or rather my overall consensus I'm coming is that "god" is consciousness itself. You and I have consciousness, and so we are pieces of god you could say. Fragments. From our nature of overcoming (the will within us to survive which has no explanation by science) We are the universe, god, trying to experience itself.

Yes we do, like I just said, we have the original scriptures. That is what Biblical scholars use when they study. We know all possible aspects of translation. Arguments from ignorance don't work. Why do you think we still have Atheists scholars? They can see it, they understand it, they simply don't want to believe it. Reality is stranger than fiction.

Are you familiar with the gnostics?

Watch this.

youtube.com/watch?v=qFjjA_Pt4AQ

Don't try to change the subject.

Animals have consciousness. It's not exclusive to humans. Spend a long enough time around animals and you simply cannot deny that some animals have complex cognitive and emotional processes. Science backs this up. If consciousness was evidence of a higher power, then why does it only manifest this way in humans?

Ok, well I'm still on topic, and the gnostic scriptures are alternative versions of the bible that were censured. Look into them.

Language.

Because as you just proved, there are different degrees of consciousness.

Animals are at a lower degree of consciousness.

>Alternative

Altered is more accurate. Why would I when the originals exist?

Are you watching/planning on watching the video? You should.

Well, I can't force you to look into this other face of christianity, and yes I'm watching the vid.

You're equating human understanding of concepts such as physics and biology with religion. My "theories" aren't faith-based, they're scientific theories drawn using theoretical models that follow the laws of physics.

Your argument is that we don't "know" the laws of physics are absolutely true? Science =/= Religion. They will never be equal.

we don't know that they're the originals. That's just what's said about them.

Language is not exclusive to humans either.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_correlates_of_consciousness

While we don't have a complete understanding of consciousness as a biological phenomena, we are beginning to be able to make connections between various characteristics of consciousness and which biological parts of the brain are activated when experiencing said functions.

There is nothing exclusive biologically in a human brain versus the brain of another species that could, within the realm of the laws of physics, be responsible for a "connection" to a higher power.

Guess you better write a paper. The recurring universe theory is laughable.

On the level of our language, yes it is.

>what is the prefrontal cortex

Religion builds momentum in society and is very effective in passing on wisdom from generation to generation.

It's a huge mistake to give that up now.

Is this what Sup Forums looked like before the election? People conversing without keywords (ccuck, shill, christcuck, atheistscuck etc) and shitposters?
Anyway, just pointing out that this is a good thread

Fedora memes started being spammed here in 2013. In late 2014 it was at it's absolute worst. Sup Forums is edgy and counter-edgy at the same time.

The Big Bounce theory was merely one example I presented. There are many on the theoretical end of the universe. I did not present mine as absolute knowledge of the fact, but as a theoretical situation.

And what "level"? Is that? Even amongst humanity there are no universal principles of language beyond the fact that there exist systems that allow people to communicate. Tonal languages (Mandarin, Japanese, etc.) operate on completely different basic principles from Roman/Latin based languages.

Complex language itself is not even limited to humans.

The Gnostic scriptures were mystery cult fanfiction bullshit. One immediate example is how Thomas reads like an Old Testament book and hardly covers the entirety of the story of Jesus.

>censured
Yeah, people really couldn't stop shitting on them.

No.

Listen, all I'm trying to say about ancient scriptures is that you can't put any weight on them but it doesn't feel right to toss them on the side. Someone took the time to make fucking religion of it so it must be worth something.

Hit or miss. You get what you put out.

Humans are not the only species with PFC. An argument could be made that the ventrolateral frontal cortex area of the PFC is exclusive to humans, but even this is still contested in psychology.

The greatest mindfuck is the idea of infinite in the universe. If there is no beginning, then everything that could happen has happened. No end means what the fuck is the point......

>Complex language itself is not even limited to humans.

Continue.

That is, I personally believe, the true beauty in our existence. We are free to decide what "the point" of our lives are, and live accordingly. Find what makes you happy, a goal to bring about a positive change; to one individual or to the entire world.

You're only beholden to yourself. It's what you choose to do with your own potential that truly matters.

Is there an answer for how this all started, and how exactly it will stop? Maybe, I'm sure we'll keep on searching. I think it is more correct to accept what we know of our existence, which is that there is still much we don't know, instead of applying some final absolute answer to explain everything unknown.

Dolphins have long theorized to communicate with a complex language. Some say it's on the level of humans, just a different branch.

It's folklore from early Christianity, but because it's so much more relatively close to the times of Jesus, people assume that it's true. Another example that's more removed (that I'm actually writing a paper on, indirectly) is how Irish Christianity was so imbued with the pagan mythology of the Celts.

For the record, world religions essentially stem from the following pattern: Animism --> Totemism --> Ancestor Worship --> Polytheism --> Some understanding of monotheism.

Some say.

In to the trash it goes.

boundless.com/psychology/textbooks/boundless-psychology-textbook/language-10/human-language-408/human-vs-animal-language-236-12771/

Here is a good source that breaks down some of what language is comprised of. Think of American Sign Language as one example. Language exists beyond verbal conversation between two individuals. In the animal kingdom, language exists in many other forms that we would have trouble imagining ourselves using. Bees "speak" through body movement and dancing; many animals "speak" through different pheromone sequences, etc.

Look, I'm not gonna source everything. Trash it if you want, but there is research behind my claim.

There are doubts about the history of civilization.

>For the record, world religions essentially stem from the following pattern: Animism --> Totemism --> Ancestor Worship --> Polytheism --> Some understanding of monotheism.
lol you're retarded. quick question, who built the pyramid at giza?

Not on the same level as ours.

>we can't understand it
>same level as ours

Not buying it. Do dolphins philosophize? Do they have morals? Do they relay abstract concepts like virtues, ideals? Do they have a conscience? Don't compare animals to us.

Ancient Atlantean kings were blessed by the ancients turning them into gods. They expected them to lead all of mankind into a utopia, yet they became greedy with absolute power not sharing it with the rest of the world, only themselves, they eventually disappeared into the unknown. Leaving only a few remnants of their divine culture.

You ever notice how it just goes up and up and up? At the lowest level, atoms have neautrons and protons floating around them. They kinda look like planets don't they? What if that scaling just continues throughout the universe. Eventually we grow and grow and grow as a civilization until we split into two .... And from a higher scale, it contines until our civilization eventually altogether forms another being. What if that's what all our cells are? Infinite numbers oof little universes and civilizations?

They might. We don't understand them very well.

Buddhism: "Stop being a cunt"

So much for that research.

oooohh uuuu. I think about that a lot but I'm trying to bridge all the evidence we currently have you know? Maybe that shit did exist, and maybe the government hides it, but we just dont know. Thats the real truth, we just dont know for sure.

But your argument is "humans are the only species with religion, therefore only humans can experience religion." Correlation =/= causation. Where is the line drawn as to when a language becomes sufficiently complex enough?

You may enjoy this if you haven't heard of it before

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

your holding them up to different parameters. Just cause they dont have buildings and space stations theyre automatically below us? They dont have that shit because they dont need it. They live in their own little habitat. And h=they do well u eer see a dolphin doc?

huh that's funny

Einstein believed in atlantis and tried to prove its existence, he died shortly after.

Is there a lesson in there?

It can be argued we don't need those things either.

Humans are the only species who can know/experience God/religion and KNOW we are knowing/experiencing it. Would be more accurate.

My argument doesn't rely on, "well maybe they can, maybe they can't, we don't know." either.

Indentured servants.

But we don't know what dolphins are thinking. They could have like gravitational equations in their brain but we can't understand them.

You are venturing into the absurd in attempts of still having an argument. If it can even be called an argument.

The pyramids are a fucking mystery...... If we laid 20 of the blocks in the pyramid each day, it would take like 600 years. We can't do that shit...

His argument is valid. It used to be scientific consensus that animals had no cognitions beyond basic survival functions whatsoever. We now know that to not be true. At present, we don't fully understand animal consciousness, but we know for a fact that it exists.

You're argument is saying that you have full knowledge of what goes on in animals minds in order to conclude that they have no level of consciousness near us. You're making claims on information you don't have. I'm not saying they definitely do, I'm saying we don't know to make a claim either direction yet but we can have suspicions.

No. We aren't arguing about them having a consciousness. We are arguing about the extent of their supposed "language" and if it is on the same level of ours. I highly doubt it.

Your argument is completely fallacious. It is based on something that NEEDS to be known, not mine. I don't NEED to know what they think to say it is not on the same level as ours, there is absolutely no reason I should believe it is, no evidence at all.

Yes, and still, that ties back to "we don't know enough to make any substantiated claims, but there is evidence that opens this possibility."

It's hard to even have a gauge on the level of language. They;ve been shown to communicate.

telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/09/11/dolphins-recorded-having-a-conversation-for-first-time/

Again, not about communication existing, it is about the depth of their conversational abilities.

You do need to know what they say. How else would you gauge how complex their language is? Ants communicate, but I find it highly unlikely their "language" is nearly as complex as ours.

Do you know what ants say? Apply your own standards to yourself. And no, I don't. There is no evidence that suggests it is anywhere near ours.

Not to mention they cannot even have written language.

My goodness, you're spouting a lot of misinformation and lies about attributions to certain belief systems, in addition to dismissing any arguments that go against your personal views. I will never understand how I was ever in the position that you are in, you remind me of my middle-school years when I thought I had everything figured out whilst contradicting my personal views by doing exactly what my "flawless" counter-points were. It's interesting to see information repeated by others that used to be similar to my own views in past (that are almost on point from word to word)...

We all naturally ask the "God" question. I think it's egotistical and retarded to pretend we have the answer one way or the other.

Everything is built upon repeatable occurrences I guess you could say. I have faith that the earths crust isn't made up of gummy bears. Why? Because i've seen people dig holes and there were no gummy bears, only more dirt. Maybe we just didn't dig deep enough, but theres no evidence that there are gummy bears under ground regardless. I simply can't hold that claim given our model of understanding things. Same with ants, they seem to have very simple based communication so I make that assumption. Dolphins have been shown to have a conversation, so I entertain that they might have greater language capabilities than previously thought based on the fact that they seem to have a conversation.

But is it wrong to keep pondering regardless?

No, you are entertaining that their language abilities are as great or greater than ours, that is what our argument has been about.

Watch this. All of it.

youtube.com/watch?v=qFjjA_Pt4AQ

I've been arguing it's potential.

Everywhere and nowhere, transcends time, has no beginning or end. For us it's like a piece of paper trying to understand a 3 dimensional space.