Is liberty hypocrisy?

Are win-win relations in a nation possible?

Or is liberty only a temporary illusion because of the readiness and capability to use violence which makes liberty effectively non-existent?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/EBxgrr0wL8M
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

The tree of liberty must be watered by the blood of patriots

Or something like that. Burgers feel free to correct the phrase

BUMP

>The tree of liberty must be watered by the blood of patriots
Tyrants and patriots, but yea.

>Or is liberty only a temporary illusion because of the readiness and capability to use violence which makes liberty effectively non-existent?
No. This is the only way liberty exists at all.

Russians would call that hypocrisy. Why even bother when violence can be used in the end?

Because violence will only be met, by choice, with violence. And choice is liberty despite the choice being to express violence.

>Why even bother when violence can be used in the end?
I'm not sure I even understand what exactly you're getting at. Liberty essentially means you get to do what you want or need to and if someone tries to stop you, you fucking murder the shit out of them.

Most people don't want to be at each others throat, but there are always people who gain power and subvert their position.

But then others are in reality at the mercy of you not using your violence. So is this freedom at all? Doesn't the capability of using violence make liberty perish?

Who are "others"?

>that guy could hit me so I better just surrender all my rights.

There will always be people that could be potentially threatening you in one way or another. Just got to kill them first if they act up.

You say there's liberty. People live among themselves and are not equal. They have different capabilities of using violence which makes them potentially dominant over the other. So doesn't this potentially dominant position which stems from the ability to use violence make liberty really non existent?

Liberty =/= equality

Only true way is monarchy and tradition.

So Chinese and North Koreans have liberty?

How did you get that from liberty =/= equality?

They don't for they haven't expressed violence. The true root of liberty is violence. You get your freedom by violence , or have it taken away by violence.

That's a pretty good way to put it.

Well not necessary from that but people in China, NK and USA are not equal, but I assume Americans would say that the first two don't have liberty. Why?

So people in the Soviet Union had liberty as well because they could use violence

We are equal under the law, no matter our race, religion, or class, that is what equality meant when they were setting up the frame work of this country.

You seem to be misdirecting where the violence would often go to. It isn't the common man, but government officials that pen away liberty and even human rights. While government serves an important purpose it can easily become corrupt and bloated and stray far away from its initial goal.

I don't see why you keep on bringing up violence. My neighbor won't break into my place nor will I break into theirs. It isn't because I don't want to be punished or die, it is because there is no reason to act so radically. Why don't I just get out of my car and start shooting people when they are waiting at a red light? People can be violent but for a normal person it isn't constantly running through their head. They want to do their own thing and surprisingly it isn't about bashing someones head in.

Thanks . What I got from :

youtu.be/EBxgrr0wL8M

Sorry Poland. Getting too late here to discuss further. Interesting bread anyways !

>Americans would say that the first two don't have liberty. Why?
This

>It isn't the common man
And criminals?

>My neighbor won't break into my place
but he can theoretically. And he can hurt you theoretically. Doesn't it make liberty effectively go away? So you're at the mercy of your neighbour not using violence

>It isn't because I don't want to be punished or die, it is because there is no reason to act so radically.
Really? The main reason I don't kill 7 people on the way to work in the morning is going to jail would totally suck.

Liberty or classical liberal no, modern liberalism yes hypocrites.

>Is life hypocrisy? You're only alive because someone hasn't killed you yet. Basically life is an illusion because you can die

The Great American Experiment has failed. Humanity has proven time and again that it cannot be trusted with liberty

Jews; Jews can't be trusted with liberty

Life depends only on your biological functions. You can have life without any abstract values really

>but he can theoretically. And he can hurt you theoretically. Doesn't it make liberty effectively go away?
You are clearly having issues with the definition of liberty

That isn't a response or an argument to what I said

But then you are no better than an animal, driven only by desire, like homosexuals.

It is. You can have your life even when somebody hits you. Violence tramples liberty but not life

with people with an IQ over 100, yes

As I said, normal people. I cannot expect such a person from Sup Forums.
Criminals go against the norm.
>but he can theoretically. And he can hurt you t theoretically. Doesn't it make liberty effectively go away? So you're at the mercy of your neighbour not using violence
You are speaking in theoreticals. It either does or doesn't happen. You are making it seem like it is a prevalent thing, which it isn't. Surprisingly most people are content in co-existing with their own kind.

Lets say they come in and try to hurt me theoretically, I can defend myself, theoretically, since I own a fire arm. Is it something I want to use on someone? No. Is it something I will use if I feel my life is in danger? Yes.


How bad is it in Poland that this is something that continually goes through your mind? Was your neighbor murdered and your house broken into? Did someone try to bludgeon you because they got a case of road rage swinging a tire iron at your car? Are you in such constant danger every hour that you perceive every person as someone out to get you?

Sweet fucking Christ. Liberty isn't a guarantee that nothing bad will ever happen. It doesn't mean you will never die or even be in a fist fight. All it means on a practical level is that you have freedom to take responsibility for yourself.
"theoretical" doesn't make sense here. Theoretically, monkeys could fly out of my ass, but that doesn't automatically make my ass monkey domain.

>US metaphors

>It either does or doesn't happen
But there's a potential for it ALWAYS. Does it mean liberty is really an illusion and violence rules?

>I can defend myself
What if you're weaker?

>How bad is it in Poland
I'm presenting russian worldview

>Liberty isn't a guarantee that nothing bad will ever happen
So liberty is really a period of mercy? But liberty is not compatible with arbitrariness and good will

>arbitrariness and good will
Nigger what? I honestly can't tell if you're just shit posting at the point

The decision not to hurt you is an arbitrary act of mercy. But I can always hurt you. So your freedom would be the period between my good humour and the moment I hit you, so isn't liberty really illusional?

You're confusing liberty with security. It's pretty widely accepted that you can't have both perfect security and perfect liberty

So doesn't the lack of security make liberty gone? How can you be free when you know you can get hurt?

So the North Koreans have liberty because they don't have security like all of us

I hope Trump demolishes that statue and builds a new hotel in its place. Liberty has no place in Trump's America.

MAGA

>So doesn't the lack of security make liberty gone? How can you be free when you know you can get hurt?
The exact opposite. That's the exact argument lefty ass wipes use to push gun control.
>guns are scary and you could get hurt so you should give up your right to carry one

Then you agree that the Chinese and North Koreans have liberty?

Trump certainly doesn't.

US/China nuclear war WHEN?

No. They have security. It's a shitty form of security, but the gov controls nearly all aspects of life, meaning it's neigh impossible to fuck up or get hurt, as long as you follow the rules.

Oh. So you think China is more safe than the USA?

Certain parts are I imagine. Haven't been to China though. But there are nigger infested areas here where you just don't go.

Not for rotten polovtetsky mongol khanate. Their win is white man demise.