Is Superman right?

Is Superman right?

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And some years later super killed Mxyzptlk

Of course. Superman killing people would be against everything he stands for. He wants truth and justice to win the day, not his fists or his eye lasers. A superman who kills willy-nilly is just a dictator.

Yes he is

Yes but then again I outgrew my edgelord libertarian phase years ago so I'm sure others will disagree.

>dont kill people is being an edgelord
?

What are rights?

>Yes but then again I lost both my balls and my stomach years ago so I'm sure others will disagree.
FTFY

Yes. Rewards or punishments are given in the afterlife by G-d. It is not our place to cast judgment.

Especially not Superman is, I think, the most important part of that.

Cant wait to see who will get the bigger (You) count!

Yes, heroes side with justice, some heroes follow their own vision of justice but Superman isn't one of them

Nobody has the right to kill interesting characters.

Every nation in the world, in some form or another, reserves the right to use lethal force in situations. What counts as justified varies from place to place, but AFAIK every nation on earth would use lethal force upon someone that posed a danger to others.

Superman lives in a world where the average person is far more vulnerable than he, and faces far more threatening figures than the real world. I understand personally being against using lethal force, but frankly Superman here is dead wrong to deny that right to others.

How did states get this right? If no one individual has this right, how can a group of people have it?

> I need to bring up elseworlds as canon
You need to go back

mommie i made a Sup Forums thread come look

Superman is so powerful that like 90% of the time using lethal force would be completely unnecessary for him, in which case it's better for him to bring in criminals so they can be tried fairly in a court of law. That's what justice really is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

Falseflag

Superman is, for all intents and purposes, a living god amongst mortal men. He's perfectly aware of this (despite his repeated claims he sees himself as human first) and knows the kind of impact he has on daily human life. If he just up and decided one person's life is less valuable than another's and kills them, regardless if it's justified or not, that's it. He goes from someone for mankind to emulate and look up to, to just another power that be reigning over thier lives. It's the antithesis to everything that Superman represents, and even if he doesn't go full Injustice on the world, he'll still have that stigma as "he's not a benevolent being, we must fear him "

Stop posting pics of your boyfriend

Hey Snyder. Welcome back to Sup Forums

Isn't Mxyzptlk just an asshole over 95% of the time?

Man I wish Superman was my friend.

Superman is everyone's friend, user.

user is saying that the edgelords would be the ones saying Supes is wrong.

Not really, but the world would be a better place if more people held his sentiment. Self defense would be an obvious exception here, as well as the defense of others in mortal danger. Superman has the leisure of being able to handle these situations with varying levels of force despite whatever metahuman nonsense is involved, but a normal human beings aren't as flexible.

Granted, I'm looking forward to a future where less-than-lethal weaponry becomes similarly practical/effective as guns/knives. Superman strikes me as the kind of guy who, even if he didn't have his powers, would still go out of his way not to kill someone who was trying to kill him. Good christian approach.

...

Yes. It's indisputable at this point that the closest thing to the divine we know of on earth is human agency and free will. Seems as if culture is built around that. Should be respected above all else.

And if your superman there is no such thing as a no win situation. If people get out of prison the answer is better prisons.

However if you are a weaktrend vulnerable human you can defend yourself.

>le ebin pepe cake meme
LOOK MOM I POSTED IT AGAIN

No. Superman's very presence on Earth causes an escalation of alien threats way beyond the capabilities of humans that would otherwise have not even turned their attention towards Earth. Often, Superman is the only person powerful enough to take the matter of execution into his hands against these enemies. To remain on Earth and keep using it as an arena for your battles, but to refuse to permanently end serious threats you attract at the continued cost of innocent civilians, just so you can claim the moral high ground is not just selfish, but straight-up retarded.

shut up lex

>he didn't even read it
It's pretty sad how any analysis of a character that is more than a single sentence just gets written off as "SNYDER".

>And some years later super killed Mxyzptlk
More like a few second before, that panel is right after he kills Mxyzptlk.

>Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?
>Elseworld
It's the canonical conclusion to silver age superman.

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Yes, I too agree edgy superman is a niche fetish for angry teenage boys.

Superman's right, but not entirely.
For regular humans like Luthor, Superman absolutely has no right to kill because there's about a million different ways he can nonlethally solve situations. But not all of Superman's foes are human or have humanistic morals. Doomsday is an obvious example. He's not going to stop or be convinced otherwise or even stay in jail if they could put him in there. The only way to stop Doomsday is to kill him, and the only one that can do that is Superman. So Superman is pefectly within his moral right to put Doomsday's ass in the dirt if need be.
The same goes for Darkseid or Mandrakk. The stakes are too high, and there's no reasonable way to stop them nonlethally without hundreds of civillians dying in the meantime.

Pretty sure it was the god comparisons that elicited that response.

Its really not as black and white as that. Superman is so powerful, hes feared even after killing no one. Hes feared by other nations, organizations and people simply for existing.

He shouldnt kill because he can. He shouldnt kill when he deems he should. But in instances like Man of Steel, or that point in the comics where Superman executes the three Kryptonians, sometimes the justification surpasses moral platitudes. Batman lets his morals dictate how he treats his enemies, and his enemies always take advantage of this by escaping prison and killing more people each time. Supermans enemies are much more large scale and have the potential for world-wide destruction at minimum. Supermans challenge is far greater, and his morals should reflect that.

He really is. You can trust him, user.

What a hypocrite.

You've been posting here for a while user, enough.

especially because it's possible in nearly most circumstances to learn self-defense in such a way that you would incapacitate people in a highly competent manner without the need to terminate their lives.

>canonical conclusion to silver age superman
Since by the various crisis that came after COIE, the kid and the status of their marriage and his lack of powers, among other things, were no longer in "prime universe" canon, then it might as well be an Elseworld in the same way Rainbow Batman To Save Robin is, even if a Rebirth writer made reference to it in an on-going Rebirth book less than 12 months ago.

Meaning I don't disagree with you that it's not a proper Elseworld, but it's also not a canonical conclusion to diddly - at least not any longer, and hasn't been, in a few decades..

Yes, because Superman realizes that a Superman who kills will readily turn into a petty, capricious, vengeful god with no check on his power.

Right up here with this

This statement is usually false but in this instance, about Superman, it's right.

It's not like Batman. When Batman says it, he's wrong. He should have killed the Joker years ago everyone knows this. But Superman isn't even human, has the literal powers of a god, and is potentially immortal or at the very least could be around for a very, very long time. Him starting killing humans leads down a slippery slope. He HAS to stay pure, and he understands why better than anyone.

I love this page so much but the Snyderverse edit makes me crack the fuck up every time as well.

Right, course Superman does not have an explicit no kill policy hard stop like Batman does. Superman will kill if he is the only one capable, and the only way to protect people. It's why he killed Zod and Doomsday. Some threats are so great that only Superman can deal with it, and if that is true, then if they were to escape capture when he's not around then it'll be on him. You dont cage a rabid dog, you euthanize them to protect the rest of the farm.

I am against the death penalty for that reason.

>Sup Forums
>against death penalty, a decidedly liberal position.

Ok.

Yes and no. Treats like Luthor or Metallica can be detained. But them you got your Darkseids, your Brainiac,Mogul, Zods and the entire planet is put in jeopardy. I'm sure Superman knows when he has to get his hands dirty.

>Metallica

I mean, I know Supes was old fashioned, but come on......

>I made a single, deliberate error, now I must give up forever!
what a baby

Superman for this reason, must kill only when it is obvious that no one else can do it. And no one else can stop this threat and that killing is the only way to reasonably contain that threat.

Superman at his heart, is a farmboy, and a farmboy knows that while you can repel animals without killing them, you got to keep a gun to keep rustlers and poachers away and deal with the dangerous predators. Sheep dog cant scare a bare, barbed wire wont stop them if they're determined and it wont stop people. So you have to do what you have to do, to save the farm, that no one else can.

Superman knows he should not kill, he knows he has no right to, but he knows that sometimes he has no other choice that is safe and reasonable and is his burden to bear ,and even if he knows his actions are immoral, and he has no right to take life, he also knows that he must .

Killing is never right, But sometimes all you have are wrong choices. You have to pick the least wrong choice in that instance. Superman will always pick the least wrong choice, and to protect the most lives. Batman on the other hand, if given nothing but wrong choices will never take life. Or rather, that's the way he used to think. But When dealing with shit like Darkseid, He makes an exception.

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It's the super-hearing, user. Can't see through lead, can't hear through heavy metal.

Real talk. Any superhero who goes beyond "doing what he can to stop the immediate threat and hand over to the authorities" into "administering punishments" is a shitty person and the superhero community should actively work to take him down.

He still usually spares Darkseid unless he's in Morrison Cosmic Abomination mode.

Also trapping him on the Source Wall doesn't count; that thing's got a revolving door rivaling Arkham.

>I admit I don't understand everything
>I still claim to know what the right thing
shit page

>Your reign of terror is at an end, Hetfield. No more will you, Hammet and Ulrich be free to terrorize the people of metropolis with your aural assaults!
>Dude we're just doing a concert.

Or ,he's just pissed at their new stuff.
>Dude it's just a concert.
>For St Anger? And you're playing Load and Reload songs? You opened with Nothing else Matters, I cannot let this stand.
Meanwhile Lex Luthor is standing in the press box with a drink, Sending a wire transfer to the talent agency for sending the set list request to the band, and an order for 10 million copies of Their newest Album.

>death penalty

>liberal position

Okay I know you're just trolling because no one can be that buttblastedly retarded

Clark is a Metallica Fan, he's said so once or twice, So he'd probably be pissed they were playing their new stuff.
See

Kek I mean metallo

Supes loves Metallica user

>Opposing the Death Penalty is not a Liberal Position

lolwat

>except nazis, LET'S GO KILL 'EM KIDS!

>"Superman not killing is for pussies" - Zack Snooder when creating Man of Murder.

Superman shouldn't kill humans they just aren't his equal. Unless you're a keikaku master like Lex and all the stars align there's no way any human could possibly be a threat to him.

>Snyderverse edit

Show me, user, show me now.

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No. He's wrong. There's times and circumstances where people do have the right to kill.

Such as?

Not in pre-COIE comics

Self defense if you're fighting for your life, an 'it's either you or them' sort of experience.

Protection of others, such as stopping someone who's threatening the life of others.

Really, doesn't take too much thought to think of some situations.

top kek

Every single time someone brings up Zack Snyder Supes killing a single fucking person, Zod, who was on the verge of annihilating an entire family at the time, people need to bring this up to them to their fucking face.

I'm looking at you fuckers here

>on the verge of annihilating an entire family at the time
>after also swearing to kill every single human on Earth

It was either put Zod down then and there or keep the fight going and who knows how many people end up dead. Besides, Zod was all but begging Clark to do it, what with the whole "you've killed the very reason for my existence" speech before they started fighting.

They just should've spent more than "single pained scream and waifu comforting" kind of time on him dealing with the moral consequences.

No one cares, they want Superman who can make everything rainbows and unicorn farts and saves the day without so much as a hair singed

It's not about human's right to kill, its about Superman's. And as someone as insanely powerful as he is, he's in a position where killing HAS TO be the absolute last resort. Stopping Zod from rendering mankind extinct is one thing, but just stopping some schmucks robbing a bank is another beast. Superman can't be the guy who thinks killing is even an option, because then he's just a god on high dictating which humans live and which die

>MXYZPTLK
How the fuck do you pronounce that?

>He goes from someone for mankind to emulate and look up to, to just another power that be reigning over thier lives.
He already is that. You can't emulate superman, he's constantly risking life and limb fighting terrorists. That's way above and beyond what we reasonably expect people to do.

Superman takes the position not of a firefighter, police officer or any other mundane heroes. He's a superhero. The only distinction between him and a roman god is that he's secretive and hides away from the public when not fighting crime.

That was Byrne having a bitch fit but Superman was essentially the last being in the planet so it literally fell into him to be Judge jurory and executioner there was no one else who could've done that

youtube.com/watch?v=JHJuEbNB0u8

"Mix-ee-plick"
And the only way to truly defeat him is to somehow trick him into saying it backwards

>Superman can't be the guy who thinks killing is even an option, because then he's just a god on high dictating which humans live and which die

He already is since he's clearly capable of pretty much solving 99.9% of violent crime and murder but doesn't.

Like, the Joker is still a thing. Africa, the Middle East and South America are in the middle of a variety of wars. America is still awash in various murders. Superman could put an end to all that shit, has the power to, and doesn't, thus effectively deciding those people aren't worth the effort.

Difference is this was after they had literally murdered every single living being in an alt universe.

Plus supes felt like shit and was torn with guilt over this and even willingly exiled himself from earth for a few months over it.

Supes understands people will get nowhere if a superpowered guy will come down from the sky and solve every problem, real change can only really come when the people decide to do so themselves.

Plus it would be a political shitstorm on an insane scale if he did shit like intervene in places like Gaza.

I basically agree with Max Landis.

It's wrong for Superman to kill a human-level opponent because that's basically like a person killing a small animal.

I'm okay with Superman executing super-level threats Zod or Doomsday or whatever. Superman's job is to protect people, and he doesn't have some moral obligation to make all life sacred.

I wasn't even mad when Superman snapped Zod's neck in Man of Memes because it just seemed like the necessary and right thing to do.

Did people forget that Superman killed Zod in Superman 2? In fact, I think he killed all the evil Kryptonians. He didn't kill Luthor in Superman: the Movie, because he knows it's not his right to enforce justice on such a small scale, even if he was personally wronged.

What happened to him?

He doesn't want to be God, that's not his role in life.

he killed a fusion of Lex and Braniac so he ends up killing himself

It was the final pre crisis story. It was nice but this is the weirdest part about it. but the main Idea is that every story it just that a story, it's explained at the end.

He's not. He can't rewrite reality.

But he is what he is. Every minute he plays pretend as a journalist, or whatever, he's effectively going "Pretending to be human is more important than those people who are being murdered and raped that I can actively hear and sense and just ignore."

whatever happened to the man of tomorrow is the name of the story

Doesnt he just wipe his powers with Gold K and live as Clark Kent?

He went into a room of gold kryptonite, which takes away his powers, and lives a normal life with Lois as Clark Kent. 'Superman' is gone and dead

No one's calling for someone to don a cape and fight crime, user. Emulating Superman is a moral/ethical thing. He represents the best in mankind, because he truly believes the goodness of man will triumph in the end. Yeah, he's an alien sun god that we could never possibly hope to be on the same level with physically, but that doesn't preclude us from following his example to be a decent, caring individual. Superman only uses his fists when he has to, otherwise he tries to resolve situations with as little violence as possible. That's something mankind should and has been trying to become since the dawn of civilization

>Every minute he plays pretend as a journalist, or whatever, he's effectively going "Pretending to be human is more important than those people who are being murdered and raped that I can actively hear and sense and just ignore."
You yourself just admitted that Superman is not a god. So he’s not actually “pretending” to be human when he does human things like go to work. He may have Kryptonian superpowers, but he still has a human psyche. He still needs rest, downtime, and an escape from the stress of the world on his shoulders. He needs that in order to be a proper Superman.

We’ve already seen what Clark can become when he stops being Clark and becomes Superman 24/7. It’s not pretty.

ThisIronically this is the same line of thinking Luthor has. He despises Supes on a personal level, yes, but he also genuinely thinks the very existence of a Superman is a threat to mankind. Not just because he could wastes us all in minutes if he wanted, but also because he represents the end of human progress. He thinks man would become complacent and not strive to achieve greatness, since Supes can just solve any problem we face.

On the flip side, this is also why he stays out of the various wars/atrocities that plague us. He too knows it wouldnt solve things in the long run, and that mankind has to overcome these limitations of our being on our own.

>So he’s not actually “pretending” to be human when he does human things like go to work

He's not human. He's pretending to be human when he's clearly much more than that. It's the same as Doctor Manhattan pretending to be human when his very nature dictates otherwise.

>but also because he represents the end of human progress

Just because Superman could make things like murder and rape very hard things to accomplish doesn't mean humans don't stop developing as a society.

Like, someone's going to still need to invent some warp drives and holodecks or something.