If none of the Archie OCs are in the IDW Sonic the Hedgehog comic...

If none of the Archie OCs are in the IDW Sonic the Hedgehog comic, do you think the Hard-Boiled Heavies will take the place and purpose of the Egg Bosses as occupying forces in various parts of the world holding territory and causing havoc in Eggman's name?

>magician
>tricks up her sleeve
>getting the band back together

Trixie and the Illusions?

>his
>her
What use is being a boy or a girl to a bunch of robots that look the same?

No, I do not.

Kukku was the only Egg Boss worth a shit and he's from game canon so he's fine

Whenever Eggman builds a robot, he flips a coin to decide if it's male or female.

Would he be a part of Eggman's forces, or would he be a separate villain like in the games?

The Eggrobos they were made from were genderless. When Infinite's ruby altered them it made three male and two female.

Gamefags are the worst

Yellow and Pink are traditionally girls in Super Sentai/Power Rangers, and the Heavies are pretty much "Eggman Rangers".

No, Flynn will just make new OCs, like he done before.

They were regular robots until the McGuffin in Mania basically made them all go crazy and gain their own personalities.

Best we can hope for is
>Sega Sonic characters are the main cast
>Robotnik, the two sidekick bots from the modern era, and the Heavies are the main bad guys
>Freedom Fighters are either reverted back to being the original animal friends or are buddies that Sonic calls in if the going gets tough
>Shadow is literally just some fucking asshole hedgehog

He's used pretty much all the game characters he's allowed to use in the Archie comics, he's not going to ignore the HBHs.

This.
He'll probably fix the Chaotix simply to have them replace the Freedom Fighters if needed.

That's a dumb idea. They're detectives, not warriors, having them in place of the FFs would change their purpose and Sega doesn't want the game characters changed.

>Not wanting Scratch, Grounder and Metal Sonic
Plebeian.

Well, the IDW people said they have the rights to the Freedom Fighters

IDW should buy the rights to the egg bosses
at least TB and Clove

Robots with sapience are gendered despite not having any directly masculine or feminine features in Sonic. This has always been a thing.

But them from who? Sega owns every post-2005 Archie Sonic creation. Archie had no rights except publication and distribution.

i did not know this

I hope the new comics use that classic Eggman design.
His modern designs are so crap.

He's right though. Everyone else was either forgettable or "waifu/fap bait".

Enjoy your Egg Bosses being carried over.

In your opinion.

i get the feeling that OCfags were never really fans of the franchise and only liked it for the technicolor anime furries

sonic has more than enough supporting characters without the archie characters cluttering up everything. there doesn't need to be any more.

That's just your opinion, and you are entitled to it man.

Yeah, Sega published some Archie issues in Germany and France without even consulting Archie. Their license does not confer any level of ownership (at least, not since the early 00s) because after the myriad of rights issues they've had (The OVA, Sonic X, music in Sonic 1, 2, 3 AND CD, Fleetway, and apparently even Underground of all things) Sega don't play that shit.

>hurr if you like the OCs at all that means you don't like Sonic

Retard. I like both. And the game cast isn't large or varied enough to support a comic by themselves, mainly due to the nature and purposes of most of the game characters.

Enjoy your short lived comic because they're not allowed to give any of the game characters any development

>And the game cast isn't large or varied enough to support a comic by themselves

so i take it you never played anything beyond the genesis games?

I'd enjoy a sonic comic based on the games a hell of alot more than i would paid fanfiction of sonic fanfiction that is most of the sonic comics

It's more like I've seen enough comic book adaptations and licensed books to know how quickly they burn out if you stick to what's already there. Only running with game material can last you a year or two, but Sega wants a comic in perpetuity.

If you only stick directly to the established canon, you end up with a few problems. If readers are exposed only to things they're familiar with, the world and events feel cramped and static. In addition they start to wonder why they don't just go to the source material instead, usually because it's more concise. You also have to find ways to stretch this finite material indefinitely while also not contradicting established characterization or having any sort of coherent arc.

Using existing material but wildly changing execution often has the opposite problem, where you'll often alienate fans by deviating too far without having anything new or interesting to show for it. You aren't allowed to segue into new territory but still have to keep investment, often leading to soap opera style storytelling.

It's not a matter of preference, a comic adaptation is going to need *some* original characters to reach 100 issues.

Chaotix are detectives. How many cases are they going to need to solve to be full-time characters?

Blaze and Silver are from another dimension and the future.

Team Dark work for GUN.

Cream, Cheese, Vanilla, and Gemerl have a quiet home life.

Fang, Bean, and Bark are forever in the public mind as those silly bad guys who show up every now and then to cause mischief.

Etc etc etc

Also Sega won't allow drastic changes or growth to their personalities, which is who OCs are required.

I liked where they were going with Maw. He didn't get enough screen time (honestly, half of them barely showed up and are hard to judge because of that), but it was an interesting direction. I also liked Cassia but I'm sure you'll say that's waifu shit because she has a vagina.

I want you to name a comic book you liked that lasted more than two years, was an adaptation of some kind, and had zero original characters or locations.

Just for reference.

Don't bother arguing with that autist. He's been doing the same song and dance in every thread that discussed IDW Sonic.

Autismo: "comic should focus on game characters only, OCs are unnecessary!"

>anons explain why OCs are required (because game characters are under strict mandates by SEGA forbid official characters from developing)

Autismo: "Well in that case they should make new OCs we don't need Freedom Fighters no one likes them!"

>anons explain how keeping established characters like FF would help boost the comic's sales because they actually have a lot of fans

Autismo: "Well I still think they should be thrown out, it's not that I hate them I just want them to fuck off forever!!"

>anons call him out, Autismo then cycles back to step 1

>glossing over the "fixing" part
They only became detectives in Sonic Heroes; they were originally Knuckles' running crew in the video game they first showed up in.

Most people who actually gave a shit about the Chaotix are still pissed that Sega pretends that Mighty doesn't exist, too.

At this point it's obvious that either that guy is some autist with a serious FF hateboner, or just a shitposter fishing for replies by reposting same bullshit arguments.

There's nothing to fix, you muppet. Sega says they're detectives, so that's the end of it

What ultimately lead to Archie's cancellation?

Lawsuits, delays, crashing sales numbers, internal attempt to push away from license, general negative perception of company, etc.

-Ken Penders
-Archie being incompetent
-Sega sick of the bullshit

The first two are woven together very intricately thanks to Penders first trying to sue Archie AND Sega over Sonic Chronicles using the Dark Legion as the basis for the Dark Brotherhood because he thought he owned everything Echidna-related, then Archie suing him when he tried to solo-copyright the characters he created for Archie.

>Lawsuits

This. After the fuckup with Ken Penders, SEGA threatened that they will pull the license if another lawsuit happens. Catching wind of this, Ken instructed another former Archie employee, Scott Fullop, to sue them.

>delays

Pretty sure this was done intentionally by the company. Delay after delay=declining sales. Declining sales=Archie gets to drop the license, which seems to have been the CEO's intent.

Ken Penders being an autistic shit about characters he made for the comic.

That doesn't mean SEGA wants them to be used anymore.

I wouldn't mind the HBH being used. They're good designs.

Show us where Sega said they don't want the Freedom Fighters and aren't allowing them in the IDW comic.

Ian pretty much confessed that SEGA wanted the FF gone during the reboot and he had to fight to keep them around.

SEGA may have the rights, but whether or not they want those characters used anymore is still unknown.

Pretty sure IDW confirmed SEGA will loosen the leash concerning the comic, which means IDW gets to choose which characters they will use.

I think we've been steeped so long in the whole "Sonic crying" debacle that you literally think that every SEGA character has to be 100% the same as they are in the games. Which is untrue.

Think about Sonic Boom; is Knuckles a towering simpleton with brief flashes of genius in the video games? Is Robotnik a big bumbling goof who acts more like Sonic's buddy? Is Shadow only a teleporting frowny Saturday Morning cartoon villain in the games?

Also, does SEGA not allow them to do stories in a character's past? Are they legally bound to only draw them how they look like in the most current game they appeared in?

The IDW is going to be a spin-off, just like how Sonic Boom is. Hell, Sonic being an elite member of an underground liberation front struggling against an irredeemably evil, sociopathic Eggman who already rules the whole world isn't how Sonic is in the games, either, but Archie was getting away with that for over 2 decades.

You have to remember that was five years ago, and their beef was with the FFs being protagonists. Sega's internal structure has shifted dramatically since then and they have both changed their marketing tactics with Sonic and come to use Ian and his run as a selling point. Even taking that out, you're forgetting that Archie editorial and Ian convinced Sega reps that it was actually a good thing to have them around and made several concessions that Sega agreed with. It'd be strange for Sega to revert back to their old stance apropos of nothing, especially when Ian's crew proved the Sally and Nicole could sell an entire arc.

There's no reason to suspect they would want to blacklist the characters. It's already been confirmed the company is allowed to use them. The most likely scenario is they simply won't be as prominent anymore, both to set IDW apart from Archie and to bring more focus to the Sonic franchise as a whole.

>the whole "Sonic crying" debacle
There wasn't one and I'm so sick of correcting this damn meme.

Sega does not care about Sonic shedding tears, they just don't want him wailing. They stopped Ian and Tracey from depicting a hysterical Sonic once.

That's it.
That's all there is.
Stop perpetuating the meme.

Sonic hates tears dumbass
Its in one of the game manuals

Wait Magician and Riders are chicks?

Yes, they're chicks. Magician best girl.

Don't know why you're using Boom as your example when Sega mostly cares about the mainline characters, which IDW will be using, so they will be sticking to the roles and basic personality Sega has for them

>Also, does SEGA not allow them to do stories in a character's past? Are they legally bound to only draw them how they look like in the most current game they appeared in?
They have to look like the official Sega designs, yes

Half of the time when Eggman isn't involved it'll probably be small-time villains like Nack and his gang or the bad guys from the Game Gear games..

why are there no lewds of Magician and Rider

Even they can't sustain a comic for very long. One of the reasons Archie Sonic lasted 24 years was because it had so many OCs to flesh out the world, provide stories, give the game characters people to interact with and provide conflict, etc.

And that has nothing to do with my statement, buddy.

Completely missed chance at making them a super sentai team with their own color coordinated giant robots.....

They pretty much ARE a Super Sentai team, which is why the pink and yellow ones are girls since those are the usual girl colors in Sentai.

Meme or not, people are still under the belief that SEGA will never allow any deviations from the games, which isn't true. This whole idea is basically warped paranoia from SEGA getting pissed at Archie for being incompetent in general.

He's bringing up Boom, because it absolutely runs counter to the idea that "everyone has to act and look exactly how the mystical SEGA Sonic Bible dictates Sonic characters have to act". So long as Sonic is telling kids to shoot up heroin on the cover, I'm sure they can do whatever they want inside the comic. Knuckles isn't shaped like an upside down triangle covered in bandages in the official designs either, so I doubt they'll give a shit that the Chaotix punch people every once in a while.

But that little episode shows why other larger companies like Warner and Disney are so fucking meticulously insane over declaring ownership over everything made in their house. So some artist cannot get greedy one day and try suing them for shit they made while an employee.

Boom is also a separate entity from Core Sonic in every media it's in. You can't make Core Knuckles act like Boom Knuckles, for example, or Core Eggman act like Boom Eggman.

And the IDW comics will be a separate entity from Core Sonic, too.

I'm not getting why people are saying that the IDW comics have to follow Core Sonic 1-to-1. Not even Archie Sonic did that. That's why I'm saying it's dumb to think they can't tweek the characters at all to suit the needs of whatever setting they establish for the IDW comics.

It's going to be this design.

the recent games make this this post false

The first 50 issues of Archie Sonic had a principal cast of 8
(Sonic, Tails, Sally, Antoine, Bunny, Rotor, Robotnik, Snivey), with tons of one-off characters who had no baring on the "plot". Characters like Geoffry, Hershey, King Acorn, Uncle Chuck, and a lot of the post Endgame characters were supporting cast at best, lore-coupons/exposition reels most of the time, and background characters at worst.

SEGA Sonic has well over 50 characters to use at this point as opposed to the 3 they had when the Archie comics first started. I think you can flesh out a comic world with just the game characters and locations. I'd love to see someone actually make an "official" map for South Island and have things going on in the actual Zones again.

It's not like saying that Robotopolis and Knothole were actually Scrap Brain Zone and Green Hill Zone the whole time would have ruined the Archie Comics.

Past few series have ditched using yellow color for female Sentai members. I remember reading about it a few years back, it had to do something with some autistic director who insists that yellow is an exclusively masculine color, thus unfitting for female members.

Now female Sentai members rotate between pink, purple, white, blue and (as of current series, Kyuranger) green.

First, it survived as a gag comic for its first two years. You can do a gag comic with a limited cast pretty much indefinitely as long as you've got content that's good enough. Once it switched to an adventure serial, it lasted about 20 issues before it came crumbling down.

Archie Sonic, despite that poster's claim, was a TERRIBLE example of using OCs for about a decade. None of them were utilized properly. The comic was a damn trainwreck that lived entirely on the strength of its brand.

Regardless, the usefulness of OCs has nothing to do with their quantity. It's all execution. Stuff like Max' s degenerating mental health, Geoffrey's traitorous master plan, Nina and Nicole's clashing ideologies, etc are the kind of things they're good for. You can't DO that kind of shot with the official cast. There's no illusion that Vector making a heel turn is going to stick. You can't have Final slowly change as a person. These kinds of dynamics, which allow for actual shakeup to the status quo, just aren't possible with the licensed characters.

Archie didn't do it very well, but an engaging ongoing needs strong dynamics and conflicts that the game cast can't provide. Now ignore my post as you are wont to do.

Yellow was originally a dude color, and was only a consistent girl color between 2006 and 2012. A new director did have a shit fit about "muh yella bois" and cut yellow completely out of one of the teams so it could "regain its manly tradition when we bring it back".

I'm not against OCs; I'm against the idea that a comic with ONLY the game characters is doomed to fail because they can't change. You can do nuanced stuff with them, yet still have them be close to what SEGA wants them to be like. Bring back up our (now for some reason) controversial Chaotix, you could definitely still have them be a detective team and "technically" good guys, but have them stop Sonic and the gang from doing what they want to do (Hell, Charmy's not even a real Sega Sonic character anyway) as a rival team/antagonists. You can have, say, Silver get brutally slaughtered by Tails at some point in the future, write Silver out of the comic for a while, and then wait anxiously to figure out what led Tails to do it. Even the Archie comics, you had a good number of issues where Tails was fucking pissed at Sonic, and Knuckles did eventually grow to treat Sonic and the gang as friends and not "those fucking assholes who keep showing up on my island".

>The thought of having non-game characters in the series STILL makes gamefags sperg out 20 years later
Fucking amazing, lets hope it continues

I'm glad someone finally admits that Archie was shit at storytelling and utilizing characters well. Geoffrey was literally just "what if Antoine was competent and actually did made Sally wet" for most of his original appearances.

That being said; I think the real problem is balance. OCfags think that the comics can't work with the games characters, and GamesFags think that OC characters are now completely unnecessary with all the new characterless mascots they've been shitting out since 2000.

You need a balance of both. Have the games characters be the ones who are the anchor points, but have the OC characters be the ones who bring about the most change. Knuckles is always going to protect Angel Island, but have an OC character that undermines that; give him is own badguy that keeps him from helping out Sonic that much. Make an OC that's Dr. Eggman's rival that helps out Sonic, but for super selfish reasons.

You can have both.

>The thought of having only game characters in the series STILL makes OCfags sperg out 20 years later
Fucking amazing, lets hope it continues

Why is it that you never hear people who grew up with the Fleetway comics cry about not having Porker Lewis and such show up in official Sega media?

>let's make heroes villains and kill off characters and revive them later on!

That's retarded and you should feel bad.

>you could definitely still have them be a detective team and "technically" good guys, but have them stop Sonic and the gang from doing what they want to do
They tried this out in the Archie days.
The audience wasn't keen on it and they never did it again.

>Tails could brutall-
No, he really can't. Sega objects to stuff like Tails having an uncle, so the best you're getting is an implication ala the FF Traitor subplot. You know, the one very few people liked. And you're going to fail to actually invest the audience because Tails is a cross media big deal character, they're not going to allow him to be outright murderous even in the future because that's way out of character. There's no tension because there's a 0% followthrough.

>But [Tail/Knuckles] can be antagonistic for a while.
Yeah, that's the best you can get. No hard changes to status quo, just slight adjustments as Sega's branding changes and momentary conflict with obvious resolutions.

A comic just about the game characters won't fail financially: Sonic's gonna sell no matter what. But as a story, you're not gonna thrive exclusively on licensed characters for more than a year or two unless you start writing them out of character. It just doesn't work.

AFAIK Fleetway Sonic didn't have as big fandom as Archie Sonic did. What with Fleetway version being released in UK only, while Archie version had a much wider release (or am I wrong?)

Besides, Archie fans don't seem to complain about FF not appearing in games that much.

>You can have both.

No shit, Sherlock, stop thinking that the fringe fucktards who want only one or the other are the massive majorities on their sides. Every single comic based on a game, TV show, or movie makes OCs, they're required to have story variety, greater character interaction and development, and other essential things. Archie not doing those well 90% of the time doesn't mean the entirety of the idea is bad.

Why do you idiots keep thinking that a fucking Sonic the Hedgehog comic has to be some serious plot driven soap opera? You can literally just make it a comedy comic with mild peril.

I thought that everyone was fucking tired of this "OMG SONIC IS SUCH A MATURE COMIC WITH THOUGHFUL THEMES" shit ages ago; don't tell me that people literally think that all the bullshit Knuckles comics and Acorn family politics is good all of a sudden.

This.

Ken could have made a good Knuckles series that ran for 20+ issues with just Robotnik, Sonic and Nack as antagonists, but eventually you'd need new dynamics. Having Athair come in as Knuckles' singular estranged family member and goofy old hippie would have given Knuckles an interesting sounding board, a good way to bring up his scarcely seen species, and some tension about what this guy is hiding. Enerjak eventually appearing would add to that air of suspense, give Knuckles' book a unique tone, and keep interest up. And even Athair's pilgrimage and the hidden echidna city could have made for a great closer to the book, affirming Knuckles dedication to his duty while giving the audience some level of resolution and keeping things open.

Instead the dumbass just kept barfing ourt characters whose personalities end at their names.

You're working with VERY outdated information, my friend. Nu252 got rid of all that and the reboot had little to none of the "soap opera drama". As far as I know no one has demanded we go back to love triangles and palace intrigues and other barf. What you demand is what the reboot gave.

Because they just miss Shortfuse and Tekno.
Porker and Johnny were shitters.

Archie fans were basically wearing funeral shrouds and wailing heavy tears at the idea that SEGA wouldn't save their precious FF, even going so far to say that their cameo in Spinball makes them 100% official SEGA Sonic characters.

I think its that a lot of them don't quite understand that SEGA DOES own the FF, but the FF are tied only to specifically SatAM and the Archie comics. Which is why their bawling is so weird. You never hear anyone crying about all the Sonic characters from anything else not coming back.

Nice slant.

Either way, most Sonic characters haven't been kicking around for 25 years. I don't think most people will care if their role is reduced greatly, but outright dropping them would be silly.

>Archie fans were basically wearing funeral shrouds and wailing heavy tears at the idea that SEGA wouldn't save their precious FF, even going so far to say that their cameo in Spinball makes them 100% official SEGA Sonic characters.

Holy shit, look at this faggot making a mountain out of an anthill.

Then what's everyone's fucking problem with "but muh plot" then?
In fact, what's all this shit about "SEGA won't let anyone act out of character"? Is this an official statement that they made or is this some blown out of proportion meme that Archiefags love?

I love how you always make crazy statements and the jump to the other end of the argument as if that's some kind of "gotcha!" You keep doing it every thread.

Some people are incredibly desperate to paint people who like things they hate as badly as possible.

It has nothing to do with individual specific plots. It has to do with the Sega characters not being flexible and versatile enough to handle every single type of story and characterization. OCs are created to allow for that sort of thing. Archie Sonic would never have lasted 24 years without the SatAM characters and the comic-specific characters being around to expand the world, give story and plot possibilities, characterizations, etc.

Just stop arguing with the autist.

>Archie Sonic would never have gotten better without the SatAM characters and the comic-specific characters being around to expand the world, give story and plot possibilities, characterizations, etc or the comic changing focus.
Fixed that for you.
The comic's best year for sales was 2005, where they whored Shadow and wrote complete dogshit.

See, when phrased like that, it sounds like you're saying that the only characters who did anything of relevance in the entirety of the Archie comics were all the OC characters. I distinctly remember Knuckles growing as a character from his first appearances around Issue #13 all the way to the reboot. Or are you saying that said character development would have been impossible with only the games characters?

Reminder that SEGA has only ever let one OC character be elevated to the ranks of an official character.

For fuck's sake, you love taking what's written and making it as negative as possible, don't you.

>Who is Emi

No, that's a serious question; is it that OCs facilitate character development in official characters that have no reason to among themselves, or is it that OCs alone are capable of versatile character development and official characters can only be static and one-note?

It's whatever you want to believe that makes you angry, pumpkin.

Full translation of this manga?