Was TLJ too smart for its audience?

Was TLJ too smart for its audience?

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Absolutely, but also too dumb for them at the same time as a result of the constant changes spearheaded by Kathleen "I'd rather make a point than money" Kennedy. While Marvel has been a polished product from beginning to end, especially after the 3rd Iron Man film, Disney seems to have contented with allowing their "Star Wars" division to have somewhat free-reign, as likely none of this was expected to have occurred. She swindled George Lucas out of one of the largest franchises and then cut him out cold! It was a bold move, and business-wise, it was dynamite especially at the top level. So assets aside, there was no problem Leaving K.K. in charge of Star Wars, it was an easy recoup on profit. So they make the first one, which clearly is target-focus grouped by K.K. and the people they focus group bring up a lot of the same "Redlettermedia" criticisms of the prequels, which are then adjusted in the first "new" Star Wars film by rehashing the plot. Idiot fanboys love it for whatever reason and the rest of us shrug and say "well it was worth about $10, not the worst" -- meanwhile K.K. has used this inherent success of pushing an obvious first film to amplify an angle within the film series -- women powrrr! (not an ego trip about her own victories don't worry just womnnn pwrrr) After this, the focus drawn around certain non-aspects of the plot eventually cause reshoots (to make female more likeable, in ANY of the films) and to generally distract from the main plot. This causes the one single constant factor in the Star Wars film to be that they are: overly long and have too many irrelevant sequences, are afraid to have fun with the series, are constantly pushing certain characters instead of making them strong in the plot, and finally, they weigh these "bold" decisions down which already distract from the main plot by using the main storyline as a means to merely mirror past plot cues from the other films. The whole thing is a mess.

To wit: yes, too smart.

Literally stop making star wars threads.

No one cares.

To expand a little bit: I think that TLJ is essentially a metafilm about the current state of the Star Wars franchise, the internal affairs of the franchise, what it means to be a fan of something and what it means to be overly devoted to those ideas, and the dangers of perception and understanding. Can't wait to read all the insightful replies I am sure to receive! :^)

too smart for /poltv/ drones

Sup Forums is Sup Forums you brainlet, what makes you think that posting on one board somehow makes you immune to the others?

Just accept that conflicting opinions will always be present, and if yours is the correct opinion, then through persistence, kindness, and reason, you will eventually be acknowledged as right.

Otherwise you are sowing discord for no reason. Kinda dumb to me family but that's your prerogative I suppose. :^)

yes, only people who hate it are Sup Forumstards who think Rey is a mary sue. Rey has motives, character development, flaws, and a good backstory. She is tied to the central conflict and so is Finn. Brainlets are too stupid to realize this and should be gassed

No, Sup Forums is Sup Forums. If i wanted to talk about retarded politics i'd go to Sup Forums, not Sup Forums.

ya did good user, but this most recent reply of yours was absolutely retarded so i'm conflicted

No. I'm tired of people acting like TLJ is this secret masterpiece.

I'M HERE TO PUT AN END TO THE DISCUSSION.
Everyone on Sup Forums visits Sup Forums. EVERYONE. Sup Forums is the most popular board. Sup Forums crossposters visit Sup Forums. Hence why you get anons spouting nigger as if it's a form of movie criticism. There's no need to thank me for sharing this valuable information, but YOU'RE WELCOME.

t. Jordan Peterson

WHAT IS LOVE
BABY DON'T HURT ME
DON'T HURT ME
NO MORE

Yes, it was too kino for the plebs at Sup Forums to understand.

Sort of like TLJ, no? What's your issue with the second part of what was said though?

Yes

Yes. But being too smart for Star Wars fans isn't much of an accomplishment.

Degrade all male charictor

Big Bad evil is actually weak fuck

Somehow small group of
militant conqur the universe

Better question is why New Star wars's Galaxy is so political and not entertaining at all

>It was the RUSSIANS!
>It was the ALT-RIGHT!
>It was the RACISTS!
>It was WHITE MEN!
>It was MISOGYNISTS!
>It was ANGRY NERDS!
>It was TRUMP SUPPORTERS!
>It was PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE CHANGE!
>It was Sup Forums!
>It was Sup Forums!
>It was Sup Forums!
>It was REDDIT!
>It was WEEABOOS!
>It was DC FANS!
>It was PREQUEL DEFENDERS!
>It was BOOMERS!
>It was MILLENNIALS!
>It was MILK DRINKERS!
>It was DISNEY HATERS!
>It was REY HATERS!
>It was ROSE HATERS!
>It was HOLDO HATERS!
>It was the HOLIDAY SEASON!
>"People hated Empire back then, too!"
>"Dividing the fanbase was intentional!"
>"It did something DIFFERENT!!!"
>"I love how it subverted expectations!"
>"It made me rethink my views on life!"
>"It emphasized muh diversity/inclusiveness/feminist quota!"
>"It was an 'intellectual' film!"
>"It made some people uncomfortable. GOOD!"
>"It was expected to not make much money anyway!"
>"lulz it's just a movie turn your brain off!"
>"China doesn't matter anyway!"
>"B-but muh sexist MRA cut!"
This is the most damage controlled Star Wars movie I've seen since any of the Prequels. The Disney shills are in desperation mode, and it's hilarious what lengths they'll go to. I haven't seen this much shilling since Hillary's failed campaign.
No amount of self-reassurance will EVER "fix" this movie. It was a complete abomination, and the defenders know that deep down in their hearts.
Disney's nu-Wars was made to pander to SJWs/baizuo and it is this very pandering that will ultimately destroy the franchise at some point in the near future. Deal with it.

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Episode 9 will be exactly the right level of intellect for its audience.

ITs the first Star Wars that wants to make a point and nobody fucking liked it because its pretty much preaching to the beta fucks "HEy fanboys learn from the past and let it die" No one wanted to see Luke die. Its literally seeing your hero die but he isnt the hero. the flaw is that Rey is a fucking mary sue, where are her doubts?, mistakes?, flaws? nothing; so we just saw a hero die. The sad thing is that this shitty movie was better than TFA because at least tried to do something new. TFA is fucking episode IV wrapped in a fancy dress.

I am watching it it right now, not all that bad, has some flaws but fun overall, i enjoy it so far

TLJ isn't a good movie, but it isn't as bad as some people say either considering what it had to work with. But I must say, holy shit that deleted scene with the carketaker village was the worst scene ever filmed for a Star Wars movie. It totally misrepresents the jedi code and makes her a Mary Sue to an extreme extent. Thank god they saved the movie in editing.

> holy shit that deleted scene with the carketaker village was the worst scene ever filmed for a Star Wars movie.
link?

This. Star Wars is dead. Let it be.

Democrats have to accept that way because deep down they know they're wrong about everything..

But you see bigger in Sup Forums more than in Sup Forums and always have since like 2008

youtube.com/watch?v=h99p0jDQf1E

May the force be with you, Sup Forums.

This got cut because it shows Rey being wrong about something.

TL; DR

Lol

It's audience were too smart for it. They realized they were being 'subverted'.

I think it's time to go back to r*ddit, my friend

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She still turns it on Luke like a cunt she is

>Can't wait to read all the insightful replies I am sure to receive! :^)
I will 'subvert your expectations', user!
Here goes!
It WAS too smart for its audience. JJ is a hack. Star Wars was just another gig for him. He wanted to go the easy way and just keep going George's retarded 'pottery' of muh master vs apprentice, Skywalkwer vs Kenobi and rehash the same plots over and over. He intended to reveal Rey as a Kenobi, and have Luke fight and get killed by Kylo. Smart Rian saw through this, and threw JJ's script out like a chad. Made Star Wars interesting again. He refused to let Rey be a Kenobi, (a, frankly, retarded and predictable outcome) and instead went with a much more fresh "people are not defined by their genes" angle. He made Luke act like an actual mature, thinking person. After almost killing his nephew in a 'would you kill a mass murderer in the past before he started mass murderin' situation, Luke was unwilling to train Rey and keep going the Jedi vs Dark Jedi circle of violence. He saw that it brought no real balance to the force. When shit went down, Kylo Ren, obsessed with Vader, thought he was going for a 'Vader vs Old Ben' when Luke confronted him. He was in fact walking right into a 'Anakin vs Obi Wan' against the superior skill of Luke. Their duel could have gone one of three ways:

I'm a big man. I got a big dick. Little faggoty superhero movies for little faggoty man children is beneath me.

a. Luke kills Kylo, falling completely into the dark side due to the guilt of killing his nephew (he was on the edge and coped only by locking himself out of the force for decades). This would have made him, due to his high midichlorian count, an all powerful dark sider. A menace to the galaxy similar to the Sith Lords of old.
b. Luke doesn't kill, but heavily injures Kylo, like Obi Wan did to Anakin. This would have not only devastated Luke with guilt, but also turned Kylo into a miserable, crippled dark sider fueled by pain, granting him his wish to become his grandfather.
c. (Unlikely) Kylo kills Luke, finally completing his collection of dead parent figures (his biological parents and his teacher), plummeting further into the dark side, crushing the Resistance, and leading the First Order to victory.
None of these outcomes were acceptable for Smart Luke, who like Rian, found another way that doesn't involve yet another lightsaber duel that would have kept going the circle of violence that creates dark side monsters and guilt-stricken Jedis that go into hiding. He used his last bit of energy to utilize the extremely advanced Simulacrum force power across the galaxy simultaneously achieving three things:
a. saving the Resistance by baiting Kylo and buying time
b. teaching Kylo a final lesson about non violence that would hopefully redeem him in the future
c. killing himself to become a "more powerful than you can ever imagine" force ghost to properly guide the new generation no matter where they find themselves across the galaxy, like his teachers before him.
And thus, truly, for the first time, took a step towards bringing True Balance to the Force!
'See you around kid!'

A little. It's mostly just fanboy rage because they didn't get their headcanons though.

lol Even JJs stuff was better than this shit.

No, the kamikaze attack wasn't thought out at all. Rian's comments on it show this.

Evidentally it was since fools seem to think it's pro-feminism when it is in fact anti-feminism. I can't count the amount of times women fuck up and look like idiots in this movie.

>liked the movie
>the more I think about it though, the treatment of Luke's character really rubs me the wrong way
>didn't even see the OT until after the Phantom Menace

I don't know what is happening, the more I see people get mad about Luke, the more I too get mad about Luke because he shouldn't have been this way. I enjoyed the stupid lightspeed scene, I came at the force Luke vs Kylo fight at the end, and I loved the fight between Kylo/Rey and the red guys but I am starting to feel like this movie could have just not fucked Luke raw.

>Sup Forums is Sup Forums you brainlet
This, Sup Forums is /political/ + hobby

>last Jedi made me feel dumb
How fucking stupid could you be to not understand it.

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It was too smart, realized it, and then made itself too dumb. The lessons learned from the first act are destroyed by the second/third act.

>You should never meet your heroes, because in the end they will-okay never mind Luke is a total badass that brings hope back to the resistance!
>Trust your teammates and don't try to be a renega-actually your teammates's plans only get the resistance killed, be a hero!
>This conflict can only end if we realize that both sides are at fault an-actually fuck that JEDI V SITH PART 3!

It's the cinematic version of whiplash

>TLJ tried something new

I don't understand this. I keep seeing this phrase thrown everywhere.

What new thing did it try? Because all I saw in this movie was Empire and RotJ with slight adjustments to not make it too similar.

Nah, its audience was to smart for TLJ.
Which means it was pretty dumb, as we are talking about Star Wars Fans here.

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>when you can't tell who's retarded, who's pretending to be retarded, and who's just a fag from the garbage Rey shipping general

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No it wasn't you turd. You're just butthurt and you'll be crying about JJ next movie too just like TFA.

>Kylo kills Luke, finally completing his collection of dead parent figures (his biological parents and his teacher)
You slept through the parts with Leia and just assumed she got subverted to death?

Doesn't matter if it's a smart movie (it wasn't btw) if it's a bad movie

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empire was about failure too

empire isn't inspiring

>empire isn't inspiring

fuck right off this planet mark

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you're so new it hurts

it's a movie where the main character ends by being brutally beaten and demoralized and the main side character gets captured by the bad guy and frozen alive
everyone ends that movie super beat up
it's GOOD- it's great- but it isn't inspiring in the same way that last jedi isn't, and that's why i like em

>Calling TLJ Smart

Never know that Nu-wars was art film

I'll fix your nerd film
>Give Holdo a line saying she suspects a spy on board and will be keeping her plan a secret
>Replace the the casino sequence with a commando raid on Snokes ship
>Luke leaves the island in his X-Wing and faces Kylo in person in more of a heroic last ride moment than what we got

Nah, totally different

>Yoda teaches literal can-do philosophy and zen enlightenment for '80s kids
>Luke rushes to the aid of his friends despite warnings that he's not ready
>The good guys compete in a game of cat-and-mouse and manage to score minor victories with wit and cunning
>Lando conquers a test of faith and becomes a competent and loyal ally
>Literally leads into the promise of a new and exciting adventure as the good guys risk everything to save their friend

TLJ by contrast is the 'good guys' (aka space retards) being brutally massacred against the ropes for 2 1/2 hours and even contributing to their own losses with profound stupidity and petty infighting.

There's nothing inspiring to take away from TLJ, nobody to root for.

It's shit.

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Are you so new that you don't realize Sup Forums is one of the youngest boards on Sup Forums?

...

>if yours is the correct opinion
>correct opinion
An opinion is not wrong or right, by default. The virtue lies in trying to understand opinions different than yours, and discuss them in peace. Not in being acknowledged as right, that's hella sideways thinking. It's easy to challenge other people's opinions. It's hard to challenge your own.

>"id rather make a point than money" Kennedy
Nope, they made money you midwit.
The biggest problem with Star Wars is that it's the biggest franchise there is, and they tried to make a movie for everybody. What they ended up with was a movie for nobody

>great tier
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
The Last Jedi
>meh tier
Return of the Jedi
Revenge of the Sith
(Rogue One)
>bad tier
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
The Force Awakens

The only people who think TLJ is "too smart" are people who think forgoing coherent storytelling for a collage of images and emotional beats represents progress in filmmaking, and for retards who think that just the mere mention of or reference to a theme is the same as actually delivering a narrative with a resonant theme.

It's clearly too smart for Sup Forums which is not really surprising.

Both TFA and TLJ are meta commentaries on star wars as a film franchise, and theyre not very subtle about it.

The patrician taste

you will never get an adequate response.
99 out of 100 people simply repeat what they've recently heard because their encoded memory is terrible and their processing is weak.

>"Hey guys I took a giant shit on the floor!"
That's disgusting Rian, clean it up
>"Yeah, but you totally didn't expect me to shit on the floor I bet! Hork hork hork, guess I'm just a little too sophisticated for you 'clean floor' fans...!"

>bloo bloo why wasn't Snoke Plagueis ;_;

more like why wasn't snoke anything at all?

Ahh, the "you didn't understand it" get out clause. Won't work for this film - it is shit

>Was TLJ too shit for its audience?
what did he mean by this?

Hollywood liberals and stupid

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Would you fucks be happy if JJ does this next film.
>Luke has simply given himself to the force and he is rescued by Rey from it through the hole in the caretaker planet
>Snoke has five body doubles and Kylo killed just one finger but has completed his training in Snoke's eye
>Rose stays in a coma and Flynn goes back to lusting for Rey pussy
>Captain Phasma survives yet again and goes after Flynn on her own and actually gets some screentime

Would you be happy, I have given you your hero back and Snoke gets to do something.

He's a dumb asshole running a fake empire who tries to manipulate Kylo and dies because of his arrogance. He exists to facilitate the rise of Kylo as the true villain and represents the old cliches of Star Wars Kylo is trying to destroy in order to build something for himself.

Just because you assigned importance to the characters origins based on your own headcanon doesn't mean the movie is obliged to accommodate you

>faggots on this board are unironically defending this pile of feces.

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Any Disney insiders here want to tell us what the executives final opinions are on this film? I'd imagine having a film that's so polarizing to the audience must make them a bit nervous for future entries in the franchise.

You’re the brainlet. Fuck off, retard.

Unironically the best ranking I've seen on Sup Forums thus far

The irony, a lot of reddit came he because of the election

Too smart for it's audience translates to artsy bullshit that the creators thought was so great but they had no clue what the audience would enjoy.

>too smart for its audience
Top kek, yeah, just like Clinton's campaign was too smart to win.

It's too smart for Sup Forums or so it seems

No, but sci-fi is definitely too smart for Rian Johnson.

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>Star Wars
>Sci-Fi
Too many brainlets on this board. No wonder the complaint threads won't stop coming.

As of right now the Disney Star Wars franchise as a whole is as close toba financial flop as can be without actually losing money. With the steady decline in box office for each subsequent movie and maasive drop in toy sales the overall rate of return on the initial $4billion investment is around 5 percent which is less that your uncle Bob and Aunt Louise make from their no brainer joint mutual fund.

K.K.'s days are numbered especially since Solo will continue the steady box office drcline and probably wont even make a billion.

He was an evil force being in a galaxy with a lot of evil force beings. It's not like he was called Darth Snoke and the audience had to wonder when and how the Sith Order was resurrected.

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Then you'll be delighted to hear that he's never made a sci-fi movie

Well, I've never before seen a sequel deface a beloved character from its own storyline just for kicks, or consciously undermine its own themes with meta-messages about the foolishness of tradition and caring for heroes. That's something new.

>for retards who think that just the mere mention of or reference to a theme is the same as actually delivering a narrative with a resonant theme.
Fucking this.
The Room has distinctive themes, too. By the logic of sycophantic Mouse cocksuckers that makes it a masterpiece.

>ITs the first Star Wars that wants to make a point and nobody fucking liked it because its pretty much preaching to the beta fucks "HEy fanboys learn from the past and let it die"

>ITs the first Star Wars that wants to make a point

I don't think it is but okay. I'll give you this, I just don't think that you need to have such a blatant, hostile and harmful message encompassing your film, such as TLJ has, for your film to have a point. But you said "make" a point, so like I said, I'll give you this.

>nobody fucking liked it because its pretty much preaching to the beta fucks "HEy fanboys learn from the past and let it die"

This is such an awful thing to say to an audience. It's like the movie itself was angry about angry "fans" that say ugly, vulgar things like "George Lucas raped my childhood", and so it went out of its way to chastise innocent fans. It went out of its way to disrespect the franchise, almost as if daring someone to say something about it so that it could miscategorize them as a vulgar, angry freak.

>Learn from the past and let it die.
I doubt anyone involved with these new movies learned anything from the past except "incorporate practical effects so retards who worship Plinkett will praise us."

Honestly, The Last Jedi makes me sick just thinking about it. Not angry, but unwell. It's just so malicious.

>Let it die

Telling an audience to stop caring about your franchise.

>blatant, hostile and harmful message
What message is that?

If your franchise only exists in the past maybe but that's not the case here

>running a fake empire
How do we even know this? The galactic political context between these new movies is so shit that none of it makes any sense. Exploring Snoke's backstory would have been one of many possible ways to fill that gaped hole in the story.

This.

Why is a movie telling us to not care?

If anything it makes Rey into a Mary Sue like in TFA. Rey is showing how compassionate and caring she is for random innocents, and her urge to protect them. She did the same thing for BB8 in TFA for no apparent reason, when she was supposed to be a hardened scavenger.

But that isn't even the worst part of the scene, they character assassinate the entire jedi order by claiming that doing nothing is the jedi way when we know it is not. Its fine to change Luke's character to make him more complex, and give him struggles to go through but character assassinating the entire jedi order is indefensible. So thank god that scene was cut.

Yes, women are dumb

The movie literally ends with kids playing with Luke action figures you fucking brainlets

HOW do you interpret that as "Luke sucks and youre retarded for admiring him"? You're just mad you didn't get a perfect and pure Gary Stu Luke you imagined him to be post-RotJ.