ITT: Characters who get worse as the show goes on

ITT: Characters who get worse as the show goes on

pic unrelated of course

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[REEEEEEEEEEEE]

I'll speak my piece and move on:

The only reason Sup Forums is triggered by these two is because anons self-inserted as Finn and assumed that he would wind up fucking one or both of them.

PB evened out pretty well honestly.

Definitely true for some people, but I don't know if I would say most. I think it's entirely likely people just hate any lesbian couples and dislike Bubbline because of that.
Personally I just find it boring, and though I like Finn I don't believe that has to do with it.

Fuck all shipfags.

Sure user. That's why. There is no other reason. They don't behave and interact with other characters completely differently in later seasons, actually none of the characters behave differently in later seasons of AT, the whole show is the exact same as it was in the beginning.
>I think it's entirely likely people just hate any lesbian couples
>Let's blame homophobia when no one mentioned the ship in the first place

Is ´coz they ruinud the series...

Ignoring the nuAT fags, here is another good example.

and for almost the exact same reasons

I said lesbian couples not lesbians, but even so lesbians would probably count for a good chunk of Sup Forums. Should have more referred to "in comics/cartoons" though.
But I didn't even make a value judgement with that, was just saying.

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Pic of course related, Bubblinefags

MAGA-SHADILAY!!

>There is no image

>half the people quoted say they don't like Bubbline
>no pic in pic related
seriously what did he mean by this

Literally none of those comments say they don't like bubbline

>personally I find it boring
>
user is clearly saying the relationship worsened the characters
is the same person as 3/7

>user is clearly saying
except I never fucking said that. I said no one mentioned the ship, because before the user I was responding to mentioned it, no one else did.

>personally I find it boring
is that the same as disliking it?

If you don't like those things, and Bubbline is the cause of them, then it sounds like you don't like Bubbline.
And if you think something is boring it sounds like you don't like it.

Neither of those posts sound like Bubblinefags.

They get better, almost everyone in this show get better, the problem is that Finn only get worse.

That's like the exact opposite, I feel like Finn is the only one who definitely got better while everyone else arguably stayed the same or got worse

Why do you think that m8?

AT should have ended after Season 2. It just got too out of hand with the shipping drama, "muh deep intricate plots" and magical lesbian fantasy.

not him, but finn doesn't actually seem capable of badass feats or saving the day anymore. The most badass thing I've seen him do in the past couple seasons was punch those jellyfish off the ship in Islands.

I can't remember the last time he wasn't mowed over in a fight either. Susan, Fern, AMO, all the Stakes vampires, the Banana Guards, that Lich hand, etc. Give him his coolness and ability to body someone back.

All we got now is a passive Finn who's got a mild introspective thing going on which I could care less about.

Also It could be my memory but he gets bailed out more than being the victor these days. They just won't let him get that big heroic parade like in the past seasons anymore.

Bubbline isn't the cause of them, I never even suggested that.
>They get better
Losing any part of their personality until they're nothing but vapid teen girls
>almost everyone in this show get better
>ice king is just a quirky old man instead of an evil wizard
>Instead of being completely stupid, cinnamonnbun is only mildly incompetent
>FP does nothing of note besides cringy raps and some occasional annoying angst
>The Lich jobs fucking hard throughout the entire series
>Susan gets a complete personality swap into some generic soldier
>Finn is completely incomparable to his old self
What fucking character gets better in this show?

While I agree Finn should be more badass and gets jobs more often than he should, that's pretty shallow if you think him being able to beat stuff up is what defines him as a good or bad character. Like, that's all you're interested in?

I like Finn because it feels like after season 7 he finally matured, but not in the way the show used to do where he would go from talking about some philosophy one episode and then acting even more immature than his S1 self, but in season 7 he was actually more intelligent and rational across the board, barring Stakes. His whole deal with Fern was a great way of showing this with him being in the mentor role that Jake used to be in with Finn.
It's also interesting how he clearly has some form of ptsd after all the shit he's gone through, and how he seems to have gained a new flaw where he's very hard on himself and harps on if he's kind or not (thinking of stuff like I am a sword and Don't Look).

Maybe that's not what you're looking for out of your boy heroes but, sloppy writing not letting him be as deadly as he should be aside, he seems pretty improved to me.

>ice king gets a deep back story and is no longer just random old guy with a princess fetish
>Cinnimonbun grows as a person
>FP ascends her throne and takes command of her empire
>Lich was defeated 3 years ago, and is hinted to be bubbling up from Sweet Pea
>Susan goes on a journey of self discovery and grows as a person
>Finn stops being a whiny child and and learns how the world world isn't always fair.

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also

3/whatever. Finn around seasons 3/5.1 had a lot more emotion than he does now I think I'll have to rewatch the episodes to verify this claim. He hasn't won a sword fight in I don't know how long and that's supposed to be his shtick.

Also you know how you rip into your buds jokingly, or are able to exchange verbal barbs with a stranger who pisses you off? Finn lacks that. If someone gets upset unfairly to him he needs to bite back IMO.

Of course it isnt dillweed. And sure he's matured and "competent" there's no doubt (not that's a feat to his 12 year old self), but it just seems all meh to what they could do. It's more of a exhausted yay nowadays so late in the game.

>Characters getting more deep and complex is worse than a bunch of 1dimensional overused cliches
whatta

Not really sure what you were hoping for then, other than him being able to fight better.

He doesn't seem all that higher competent and intelligent even if stakes was his lowest point. I'm not asking him to be PB intellect either. And you're still on about that fight better thing when it aint all about that,. I guess the best I can say is that there's a chunk missing from him now that old Finn had. He should have that chunk plus more than what he has now I can't explain it that well.

He is too bland now, is near impossible to describe his personality besides the fact that he like to do hand signals while talking, he don't seem to really care about being a legendary hero anymore intstead he see it as a job, many episodes are spend about how he don't know what to do with his love life even though he is 15.

His development would make sense if he was a fully grown adult, the world most famous hero alive, and a wise guy but that's not the case.

Flanderized into a couple of fanfic dykes.

What a depressing fate for Marceline who started out so fucking awesome.

I think he's smarter but I guess I can't really give out specific instances and I'm too lazy to go back through the episodes and try to find moments that show this.

I can see what you mean about that chunk, I can't really define why I still like him and you can't define why you think he lost something. It's a go by feel more than anything else thing. Sorry you don't think he's as good anymore man.

>impossible to describe his personality
Caring, empathetic person, tries to do good, cares deeply about his friends, is often too hard on himself, loves violence; I know that isn't a lot but that's just what I can up with right quick. I think there's a good chunk there, and if I was better at articulating my thoughts I would have more to add to it. I think Finn has personality, it can just seem pretty subdued.

>doesn't seem to care about being a legendary hero anymore
Was that honestly ever his main goal? He wanted to be a hero and help people, he's always done that. He was never after being the biggest hero ever.
And that thing about his love life is just not true man, there's been like 3 of those since season 7 started.

Your stuff is a bit off to me man.

How he matured?He is just really bored all the time.

>ice king gets a deep back story and is no longer just random old guy with a princess fetish
>deep
>generic zombie story with a cursed artifact that makes him bad
>deep
Lorefags need to die
>no longer just random old guy with a princess fetish
Why is just being an evil wizard a bad thing thematically? Good guys fight bad guys, it made for a lot funnier interactions that his current state.
>Cinnimonbun grows as a person
He's just an incompetent knight now, he does nothing evil mildly interesting, he is the most tame and boring character in the show. Why is this a good thing?
>FP ascends her throne and takes command of her empire
Why is this a good thing? She's barely in the show anymore and even when she is she doesn't do anything of note, no adventuring, no accidental burnings. She makes a cringey rap then disappears for 15-20 episodes.
>Lich was defeated 3 years ago, and is hinted to be bubbling up from Sweet Pea
Not hinted, he did, and gets beat by Sweet Pea, because that's how hard he gets nerfed from the build up he had before.
>Susan goes on a journey of self discovery and grows as a person
Susan becomes a generic soldier who does almost nothing a note in the miniseries and is only a vehicle to tell the least climactic story possible.
>Finn stops being a whiny child and and learns how the world world isn't always fair.
Finn loses all the enthusiasm and charm that made the show entertaining and loses his ability to do anything but angst for 5-10 episodes straight.

>nuAT is deep
You need to watch more than children's cartoons my dude. It's not an incredibly intense, dramatic or complex story, it's a rather simple one that even a child could understand, it does nothing even mildly original, and what it does do it doesn't do well. If you want something mature go watch Monster, or Eden of the East, Steins;Gate, you'll get hell of a lot more mileage. nuAT however, fails as a comedy, and fails to match most others in dramatic weight.

>Caring, empathetic person, tries to do good, cares deeply about his friends, is often too hard on himself, loves violence; I know that isn't a lot but that's just what I can up with right quick
Goku?Thor?Luffy?Ryu?He-man? Most heroes in fiction?

Finn is a hero, most heroes have similar personalities, yeah. I wasn't saying he was the most original character ever, but that he has a personality.

Marceline maybe.
Princess Bubblegum actually got better when they decided to make her more of a bitch.

Before she was mostly "that smart girl Finn wants to fuck" but her being egotistical and more morally ambiguous allowed her to be both more comedic and interesting.

Yeah is far more deep now, and mroe fun, you can explore Ice king character way more as a crazy old man than as a "bwahaha evilll frezeee" villain
>Monster, or Eden of the East, Steins;Gate
I watched those shits, Monster was a fucking boring shit with a mary sue villain and a "racism is stupid kids" message out of nowhere.

Smart, cute, and fuggable PB was funnier than crabby PB we have now, but newer PB is insanely more interesting.

I wish the found a balance

That's too bland, you're simply saying that he like his friends, try to be good, and often put much pressure on himself, those are basic human traits that every character that is not a villain or an anti hero got.

I mostly agree with you but I have no idea how you think "evil wizard Ice King" was a better version of the character in any way.

That existed for season 1 only then they already began going into how he's mostly just sad and lonely and making him not a real villain anymore, and the weird annoyingly clingy version of his character was much more entertaining than him just being Finn's nemesis who tries to kidnap the princesses.
If he is bad now I would attribute that to this show just being 7 years old and the writers running out of good IK material.

This isn't going into the Simon shit at all, but straight up bad guy IK was the least interesting he's been.

Alright
>actively tries to do good, as in goes out and helps others at the risk of his own health and happiness
>is harshly self critical towards himself beyond what is reasonable

I feel like there is more to him that I wish I could put into words more, I don't know. Maybe he is just bland but I think there's more charm to him that I can't really make concrete which is bothering me.

>Caring, empathetic person, tries to do good, cares deeply about his friends
>He wanted to be a hero and help people
And he was excited about it, from his every action beamed a childlike enthusiasm and curiosity about the world, because you got to see how much he actually cared about those things, and the joy and love of what he does brings him it was much easier to be engaged in the stories, and to understand what motivated his actions. The problem is that now what motivates his actions is far less clear, he doesn't seem to want to do anything, he is almost entirely strung around by the events of the world around him, much more akin to a ragdoll than an actual player in his own destiny, and because of this his character is less interesting, and there are some stories with a narrative interesting enough to make up for this but in AT it's just not there, there is not enough nuance or world building, no grand narrative to tie the dissonant plot lines and events together to create a story that is compelling. I suppose that's to say that because Finn no longer behaves as an actor rather than an object, the show can't be considered character driven, and the lore or plot aren't strong enough to carry the show either.
My point being the changes to Finn's character are a complete hindrance on the ability of the show to tell a story.
Have a (you).
>I have no idea how you think "evil wizard Ice King" was a better version of the character in any way.
Because he was completely unsympathetic, and because he did things that were unobjectionably bad, and was himself, unobjectionably bad, he provided the perfect antagonist to Finn, who was good, In the very first episode Ice King appears, he's a complete creep, and this is used as a vehicle to show that Finn is a hero who while clearly not a smart kid is clever and spunky enough to help people, it showed this naturally in a single episode. What he was absolutely perfect for this.

>Bubblinefags ruin yet another thread

>Because he was completely unsympathetic, and because he did things that were unobjectionably bad, and was himself, unobjectionably bad,

What a load of horeshit. The first episode he appeared in had that moment where he was saying he tries so hard to be a good husband for girls and wondering what's wrong with him, he had sympathetic qualities right off the bat.
Season 1 Ice King was certainly more malicious and willing to be violent but from the start he was also unable to figure out why everyone hated him and how come he couldn't get a girl to like him or friends.

Even Finn saw this when he said that he wished he could help IK but didn't know how.

I agree fully with your assessment of S1 Finn, I loved him from the start and people who just sum him up as "loud kid hero" are pretty dumb.
But I also think he's good in the later series, where I can plausibly bye that this is the same kid who had that enthusiasm beat down by life and has become more guarded over time.

I would say his motivations are still pretty clear- mainly to do good and help people, but with a side of finding himself or something like that more- but I think this may be because the writers have said a few times they made things more ambiguous as the show went on. They wanted viewers to draw their own conclusions, and it looks like a conclusion you drew was that Finn just became more empty (not attacking you with this). I guess my interpretation is what I said with him just getting beat down, which is pretty sad if you look at it that way.

Though I still think that Finn is a primary driver of things that happen currently, he certainly became less active.

>That existed for season 1 only then they already began going into how he's mostly just sad and lonely and making him not a real villain anymore
This only really started in holly jolly secrets, before that in any episode he played a significant part in her was still playing the role of an antagonist
>weird annoyingly clingy version of his character was much more entertaining than him just being Finn's nemesis who tries to kidnap the princesses
I disagree wholeheartedly. He simply cannot carry an episode in that manner
>e first episode he appeared in had that moment where he was saying he tries so hard to be a good husband for girls and wondering what's wrong with him, he had sympathetic qualities right off the bat
I think you're confusing sympathetic with pathetic. He was the butt of the joke, he was crazy and stupid enough to believe kidnapping them and threatening them was being a good person, it was meant to be ridiculous, an entity meant to be mocked. That's why it was made clear there was actually something wrong with him and he wasn't a victim, but he didn't recognize the obvious reasons they didn't like him and instead thought "is it because I'm a magic user, or because my beard is too shaggy" Even when confronted with the truth he decided to completely ignore it. The show could have shown him mourning or legitimately reflecting, but instead has him just call the guy a nerd, the intent was clearly not to make him sympathetic, and without the context of later episodes, literally no one would.

Though, I got to say, thanks for giving me an excuse to rewatch that episode, I forgot how much I loved it

He was already downgraded by season 2 IIRC. Was still doing shit but wasn't the main villain as much as an annoying jerk Finn and Jake dealt with. You are right that he pretty much stopped that after HJS, but even then he did some stuff (Princess Monster Wife).
If you want a good episode where Ice King is annoying and clingy as opposed to villainous, watch Hitman. A hilarious episode and all he wants to do is save Finn and Jake's life and has him considering them not as foes but as bros.

And I think that someone being pathetic can be the same as making them sympathetic. We feel sorry for him, that leads us to like him. The sympathetic aspect is shown that he doesn't just want a princess because I'm evil and I want a hot chick to mack on, but that he is lonely and wants someone to be there for him and is actually trying to be a good husband.
Him ignoring all this in the end doesn't really make him less sympathetic, I think it just adds to the whole "he's not all there" aspect.

Even then, there's other earlier series episodes that show this. Like The Eyes, where Ice King just wants to be happy and have a good nights sleep. That stuff is sympathizing, ain't it?

Np, season 1 AT ages like like fine wine. The Jiggler is still one of my favs.

This right here is the best example. I easily prefer Gumball as a dumb, misguided, but generally well-meaning kid over the snarky, spoiled not-Adult who's always making pop culture and meme references.

I still really enjoy TAWoG even now, but I've gotta admit that Gumball himself was a more appealing protagonist during the first ~2 seasons.

>People defending how hard the lich jobbed

That and the who ever the hell Gunther was supposed to be are the two biggest let downs of the show. That and how fin got his arm back. So fucking lame. When Finn kicked Gunther's ass in space is when I droped the show. Don't know if it got any better but i doubt it.

Anons will tell you it did, but they're lying.

>but they're lying

Those two aren't that bad.

Now FP on other hand....

FP was never that great to begin with tho

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same beer.........same... SHOW

I greatly prefer douchebag Gumball, it makes his suffering sweeter.