>In a post Studio Mir world it's sicking that nobody is catching up to them, seeing that Voltron:LD is only $90,000 per episode and Lego Elves:SOED being less then that. You think that studios would be catching up to them as was the case with Disney in the late 20s (this is what killed off Felix the Cat in 1930), Warner Bros in the mid 30s and TMS in the 80s but instead of doing the right thing (catching up with Studio Mir) they shit all over the industry by making the 70s look like the 50s.
Thoughts. If John K says we should we playing catch up with Mir then we should be playing catch up with Mir.
So this means like $500k could be enough to finance a decent-ish 2D feature. Too bad no one with money cares enough to do that.
Ian Jones
It's hard wrapping my mind around the idea that John K likes any modern cartoon.
Regardless, he's got a point.
Dominic Reyes
More like a near feature grade animation for a TV episode.
Isaiah Ross
I still have to respect this guy's work ethics. Too many cartoons lack real story boarding and mostly rely on dialogue to carry a scene. Visual medium is depreciating.
Anthony Edwards
Does he say anything more about Mir's shows? He seems to only be praising their ability to bang out full length episodes at a much cheaper rate than other studios.
Asher Cooper
This, also no layout, just ditch the boards to Korea/The Philippines to have them xerox up and inbetweened.
Jordan Bailey
You know, I think you're right. He did also mention Lego Elves, so I shouldn't assume he's implying any praise in his statement.
Jackson Parker
>have to respect this guy's work ethics It's taken him more than five years to make a ten minute short.
Bentley Gonzalez
John said this back in 08 (Back where Mir's staff was still at JM). >Most of the budget spent on these cartoons are spent on bloated pay checks and other bloated things and very little is spent on the actual cartoon itself, even Avatar The Last Airbender is guilty of this.
In case you don't know what he is talking about he was talking about Chowder & Flapjack's budget.
Camden Long
Any modern things John K likes?
Ethan Reed
Cow & Chicken.
Mason Ramirez
Shut up Famicon.
James Cook
TMS shill pls die
Jaxson Rogers
The quote came from John K's own Facebook account, just as a head up.
Samuel Richardson
So basically to make a good cartoon you have to pay your staff slave wages. Which is exactly why we send our animation overseas.
Easton Morris
No. What is being said is you don't need to pay executives and voice actors $100,000+ a episode, $3,000 to $5,000 is fine for a pay check but not any below $3,000.
Also to never waste money on things like plane trips to China and ect.
Jayden Hernandez
Seriously?
Zachary Richardson
>$90,000 >they make a show >$136,732 to kickstart a show >makes nothing
I still don't know why we have to accept the guy who just made one good show in his life as our Messiah
Easton Bennett
The reason is because animation today throws money at serialized story-driven productions. In the 1920's cartoons were about 6 minutes long, and full of dancing and one-time weird things (yes, they were detailed, in terms of screenplay, but the production still needs to be scaled to all the modern additions). Today's animation allocates money to everywhere, instead of a few people in a basement - that's the biggest difference. Blame the producers, to be honest. If you want animation (design) to be 'good' and weird, you have to make it so that story/writing (etc) isn't popular (it is very much so, at the moment). Either that or make the budgets even bigger, so you can miraculously have everything.
William King
David Feiss was trained by John K after all.
Jack Young
I can't speak for executives, and I don't think budget projections include what they earn, but voice actors are part of unions which negotiate the price for the need. But also, another reason why Canadian actors are sought out so people avoid dealing with unions.
In order to create the cartoons with the budget this guy is talking about you need to move production someplace 10x cheaper than California. Which, granted, is exactly what John K did with Spumco.
Sebastian Evans
Back in the 80s & 90s a cartoon's budget was spent on the cartoon itself which is why we got expensive Japanese studios (ie Japanese studios that paid their staff a actual salary rather then dirt) to animate our cartoons (and sometimes keeping the animation in the States or at least having the animation be done in a non-Asian country like Australia, Canada & New Zealand) and 30+ piece orchestras to score our cartoons. Now your're lucky to have layout at all due to how much is wasted on bloated pay checks, if there is a budget at all.
Also this.
Ryder Murphy
Also this. What exactly does he do all day, anyway?
Alexander Davis
Does he realize the reason voltron is so cheap is because Korean animators work for peanuts.
Cooper Brooks
I'm not gonna put much stock in a man obsessed with the golden age of animation who doesn't understand how its economy worked and who can't meet a deadline or work in a team.
Owen Barnes
>japanese studios paying their animators a decent salary that's never been the case.
Elijah Morales
I will not call 12,000 won a hour peanuts.
Bentley Wright
I feel like I'm the only person who actually prefers AT's visuals over the CG backgrounds and lighting that is in every anime. Not that I naturally have a problem with either; both do their job, in regards to their styles. AT wouldn't exactly be elevated if is were staged and designed like an anime.
Carson Stewart
Is he a Lancefag, a Keithfag or a Shirofag.
Cooper Brown
I remember Gargantia suffered from QUALITY later on anyway
Alexander Rodriguez
Tom Ruegger & Bruce Timm have said that TMS was expensive to use which was the reason why studios like Wang, Akom & Dong Yang were used in the first place.
Also Japanese studio started doing American outsourcing because they wanted a actual salary.
Voice actors I'm assuming, they got Tom Kenny and John DiMaggio.
Jack Green
Why is this retard even talking? Who listens to him? I hope you guys don't.
Jace Brown
>CG backgrounds and lighting that is in every anime
Nigga, just see any pre-2000 animu.
Mason White
And since it's $89,000 per 11 minutes thats not alot.
Michael Barnes
Are there many examples beside high quality outsourcing? It honestly doesn't seem like it.
Samuel Wood
He would be a lancefag for sure.
Robert Thompson
AAA Features, but outsourcing pays more.
Ryan Ortiz
>per 11 minutes jesus fuck i thought that was for the whole 22 minutes These companies could be saving a fortune somewhere in the process
Christopher Wright
>outsourcing pays more Yeah, obviously. Especially when it's multi-billion corps getting stuff from the best foreign guys possible.
Levi Smith
Well as of late CN & Nick's new episode showings were just 1 11 minute short when the other 11 minute short is a repeat.
Voltron:LD however is $90,000 per 22+ minutes.
Sebastian Diaz
It varies, depending on what we're talking about. My point is that I find the AT style appropriate for what it is. If you want to share a psychedelic adventure situation comedy show for children that has a more fitting artstyle, please help me.
Nathan Russell
They did this to match up to the likes of Toyota, Nissan and Honda's salaries.
If it was up to the animators Sazae-San will be the only TV anime to exist as everyone else will be doing nothing but american outsourcing and/or AAA features just like South Korea of where Dooly The Last Dinosaur is the only major project they have when everything else is either American/Japanese outsourcing and/or AAA features.
Dominic Nelson
How long before rape allegations shut John K up for good?
Lincoln Watson
John never went that far with a woman so never.
Xavier Jones
>John never went that far with a woman Remember Skyler Page? Remember Katie Rice piping up on Twitter almost immediately about "the industry"?
Who exactly else did Katie have experience with at that time?
Dominic Rodriguez
These examples always have such gay looking anime, at least use something like gundam thunderbolt as an example, so very few anime look good nowadays
Justin Powell
John never went to first base.
Brandon Jenkins
>They did this to match up to the likes of Toyota, Nissan and Honda's salaries. I don't know what you mean by that. They got the same money as car manufacture employees, or something?
>If it was up to the animators Sazae-San will be the only TV anime to exist as everyone else will be doing nothing but american outsourcing Nah, obviously not. It seems that in Japan there has always been a drive to create something independently. See Tezuka.
Matthew Hall
Doesn't he like Steven Universe or something? I remember someone saying this, but I doubt it was true.
Carson Gray
But heres the thing, once Tezuka left Mushi the staff (led by Osamu Dezaki) were leaching off of Rankin Bass as they were getting pay much more then on Astro Boy & Goku no Daiboken, once Rankin Bass founded Topcraft with the help of Toru Hara Mushi went kaput.
There was a 2nd Mushi by the late 70s but they only do outsourcing for other Japanese studios and are mostly unrelated to the first Mushi.
As for Tezuka Pro, that will be a exception for it's time, not in today's market.
Caleb Sullivan
No, that was proved false years ago.
Luis Jackson
>I don't know what you mean by that. They got the same money as car manufacture employees, or something? It was to have their pay match up to that of car manufacture employees.
Aaron Johnson
Cans without labels
James Davis
>Look up Voltron:LD >It's this Has he finally gone even more insane?
Ethan Green
He probably hates the style of voltron because its poorly constructed. He's saying they know how to budget a show
Oliver Jones
john k is a piece of shit but he's right
Justin Long
If this is true, it's almost as much as the highest minimum wages in the US.
Jose Hernandez
It is and because of that we need to stop using Korea and bring animation back to the States.
James Hernandez
No argument here.
Joseph Ross
Indeed.
Grayson Martin
He hates SU. Wow he’s praise Rebecca Sugar before she made her own show
Aiden Lee
Again, that was proved false years ago as he said nothing good about Rebecca Sugar.
Chase Mitchell
bump
Nathan Cox
John K just said this on his Facebook.
>TMS is a bad animation studio that pretends to do full animation but can't get basic things like posing and timing right, never mind facial expressions or body language.
>Basic walk cycles don't work, feet slide across the ground without making contact. Gestures bounce around nonsensically. Timing is usually completely evened out, and there's too much overshoot and too much settle, completely missing the point of basic animation principles.
Jack Martinez
Serious question, is Studio Mir just another "slave labor" animation studio with good press or do they actually have human hours and good methods and shit?
Ryan Reed
They're Koreans. That should speak volumes about their work culture.
Jose Bennett
He is seriously whining about the quality of work done 25 years ago, with no prompting or provocation. He just starts ranting out of the blue about things no one else is talking about. He is legitimately insane. Anyone who follows him or listens to him on any subject is also insane.
That is not on his Facebook account, please stop using shops. Not at 12,000 won a hour. That shot is fake, that quote is not on his Facebook.
Chase Williams
>got fired for not getting shit done on time >"I still have respect for this guy's work ethics"
Tyler Reyes
>That shot is fake, that quote is not on his Facebook.
Interesting. So you're saying someone could just go on Sup Forums and lie about Facebook posts, maybe write up a supposed post by John K on Facebook that doesn't exist?
Thomas Bennett
Yes, OP is real however.
Ayden Foster
Can confirm that post is 100% REAL, visited John K's Facebook page right now and that post is at the top.
Bentley Clark
jap animation is choppier and generally has less movement on top of treating their animators like shit
Xavier Garcia
Can confirm OP is 100% FAKE, visited John K's Facebook page right now and that post doesn't exist.
Angel Carter
The minute you stop you get abortions like Shapshifting Universe where character models don't exist and directors don't have the balls to tell thier snowflake friends to stick to the damn models or form a cohesive story that drives plot.
Nolan Wood
>The post was deleted. Well it was on his Facebook page.
Jonathan Anderson
Uhhh.....
Camden Bennett
why are you so focused on steven universe as if it's the only cartoon that has ever existed? also what the fuck are you talking about, are you saying that you absolutely need to treat your workers like shit to get a good product? what kind of fucking sense does that make, you maniac?
Dylan Morris
Because I used to like it until it turned into absolute garbage by what I stated above, something with a lot of promise ruined by a weak creator.
Julian Ramirez
He was probably like "DAMN, THAT SUCROSE WOMANS GOT A SWEET ASS" and then was escorted from the premises.
Aiden Bailey
>until it turned into absolute garbage by what I stated above
You really think the off model shit wasn't there from the beginning? Holy shit like one of the first episodes is nothing but that, rewatch hamburger backpack. Also still haven't explained why you think treating people like shit is necessary to create something good.
Grayson Garcia
Get that weeb garbage out of here!
Levi King
>Were does all the money for adventure time go?
Into the actual movement
Hunter Wright
>I still have to respect this guy's work ethics.
OH I GET IT! IS FUNNY JOKE YES? VERY FUNNY!
Lincoln Cox
But at $89,000 per short it's not much.
At $500,000 per 11 minute short everything will match up to Red Hot Riding Hood in terms of production quality along side that everything will be done in the States.
Aiden Young
People that think John has a good work ethic are the same people who have never actually held a job. So their views on the matter are a bit skewed.
Landon Cruz
They said TMS was the best out of the outsourced studios. That's like being the best basketball player at the Special Olympics; impressive, comparatively, but needs wider context.
Nothing you said is true other then TMS being the best.
Josiah Thomas
I haven't seen the anime pictured so I can't say if the comparison holds up, but surely you can see the inherent flaw in using stills to compare animation quality?
Nathan Brooks
Someone ask John what VLD ship he supports.
Jeremiah Morgan
What fucking work ethic. I don't even care about anything past face for dinner. Just fucking finish everythi g before that for fucks sake.
Grayson Gutierrez
Unions were a mistake. What the fuck was the point of that pay rise after two seasons shit.
Levi Peterson
Probably making the characters move.
Robert Clark
You mean by a fan impersonating the great John K?
Nolan Morales
Who cares what a has been of his caliber thinks. The real question should be what the heck he's been doing and if he even has a social life. Is he a neet? Is a some kind of hikikomori? Does he have any friends? That kickstarter money can't sustain him for too long, he's going to eventually need to find work again.
Adam Perry
What's interesting about these budgets, if they are correct, is that Studio Mir is able to pull this off while still having the same western voice actors and writers that supposedly balloon production costs. It seems that basically all visual-related work can be done better and cheaper in Asia, not just the animation.
For anyone not in or aspiring to be in the animation industry, the question is not "why aren't we trying to catch up to Studio Mir", but rather "why doesn't Cartoon Network or Nickelodeon own Studio Mir?" If they owned a studio in Asia outright, they wouldn't be paying for the profit margins of middlemen companies.