Tell me, do any of you ACTUALLY know what "Capeshit" is?

Define exactly what is capeshit. What is a "superhero", exactly? What are the defining guidelines?

Is it a gimmick, a costume with a logo, a crusade? A character who takes it upon themselves to deliver swift justice in an over the top manner? Such a definition could fit The Punisher, a character considered to be capeshit, and yet, could the same not be said of Judge Dredd? Judge Dredd is clearly no superhero, but he fits the basic criteria, does he not? A logo, a tight fitting flamboyant suit, a gimmick, a crusade against evil. Hell, he even has gimmick toys just like Batman.

John Constantine? Is he "capeshit"? Oh, sure, he has no suit, no real powers besides wits and magic, but he exists and interacts with the DC universe, does he not? So what is it then? Superpowers? Would that not include ANYONE with abilities above the average man in ANY media, or ANY genre? Psychics? Super strength?

Is it a combination of the above?

Say there exists a character with a logo, a "superhero" design, a look, a unique origin, a form of crusade, super powers, and they're an adventurer. Does that make for capeshit? Hellboy easily fits under this, and yet i wouldnt jump to call him capeshit.

Tell me, Sup Forums. You read comics about superheroes, and you talk about capeshit, but do you actually know what it is that makes a superhero 'count' as a superhero, or what makes capeshit 'count' as capeshit?

What makes you think more people will reply this time?
What even is the fucking point you're trying to make? Genre definitions are hazy? Stop the fucking presses.

>Genre definitions are hazy
>Capeshit
>A genre

See this is exactly my point.

That's not a point. Pointing out semantic vagueness is not a point.

>Semantic
Define capeshit then.

For what purpose?

Please try and make a point already.

My point is if you cant define what counts as capeshit or superhero, you should stop bitching about capeshit or non-capeshit comics being not as recognized or whatever the fuck else reason have to bitch about capeshit.

Define what the fuck counts as superhero or capeshit, come on i'm waiting.

Shared universe product from the Big 2

Capeshit is media derivative of the formula established by 1940's costumed hero comic books. It either has purely incestuous influence or is so involved with the culture born from those comics that it has nothing substantial to say about it/anything else.

For example, Ultra Comics and O'Neal's The Question are very much focused on superhero media, but they aren't capeshit. Meanwhile Conway's Firestorm and events like Civil War 2 are absolutely capeshit. It's a matter of effort and inspiration.

Anything that was made by big 2 or tries to mimic it.

So what about third party cape comics like Invincible or Savage Dragon or Spawn?

Does that include characters such as The Punisher, who's been everything from a gritty, down to earth crime buster to an alien killer to frankensteins monster?

John Constantine is capeshit? Punisher is capeshit? Swamp Thing is capeshit?

What about Punisher MAX, no superheroes, no superpowers, just crime and Frank. Still capeshit?

Hellboy and Spawn are capeshit too though

I think it's fundamentally the mix between a contemporary setting and old-fashioned ideas of vigilantism. It's a play on the old, romantic idea of a stranger who wanders into town and takes care of the problems too big or dangerous for the sheriff.

Superpowers, robotic augmentation, etc are just a way to make it work, since "too big for the sheriff" isn't three highwaymen with clubs - it's going to be giant monsters or organized forces too strong for a fully-staffed police force.

>My point is if you cant define what counts as capeshit or superhero, you should stop bitching about capeshit or non-capeshit comics being not as recognized or whatever the fuck else reason have to bitch about capeshit.
It looks like you're just buttflustered some indiefag made fun of your tastes. You should have come up with a reply to him then rather than spamming this pointless thread.
It's a retarded point too, people can bitch about westerns even if it's hard to say whether something like Giant counts as a western or not.

>Define what the fuck counts as superhero or capeshit, come on i'm waiting.
No, that's fucking pointless. And I imagine you'd predicticably go "but exceptions!" like it's actually a good argument.

Your whole endeavour is stupid, what so because some definition is hazy nothing counts as the object of that defintion? Because fuck practicality and categorization, all that matters is that your feelings aren't hurt by someone somewhere associating you with the wrong thing.

Last but not least, it's a fucking Sup Forums buzzword that they use for literally any comic adaptation. Yes that includes Road to Perdition. It's not a proper term to discuss comics and you shouldn't take anyone who uses that word seriously in the first place.

Get a fucking grip and step away from Sup Forums for a moment.

>It looks like you're just buttflustered some indiefag made fun of your tastes. You should have come up with a reply to him then rather than spamming this pointless thread.
>It's a retarded point too, people can bitch about westerns even if it's hard to say whether something like Giant counts as a western or not.

I commend your effort but you're completely wrong in that assumption.


>No, that's fucking pointless. And I imagine you'd predicticably go "but exceptions!" like it's actually a good argument.
>Your whole endeavour is stupid, what so because some definition is hazy nothing counts as the object of that defintion? Because fuck practicality and categorization, all that matters is that your feelings aren't hurt by someone somewhere associating you with the wrong thing.
>Last but not least, it's a fucking Sup Forums buzzword that they use for literally any comic adaptation. Yes that includes Road to Perdition. It's not a proper term to discuss comics and you shouldn't take anyone who uses that word seriously in the first place.
>Get a fucking grip and step away from Sup Forums for a moment.

You seem to think i'm angry, but the only one here who's getting flustered seems to be you.

All i'm asking for is a definition of what actually counts as capeshit, as yes, its an incredibly vague, hazy concept that clearly no two people can fully agree on, and yet people bitch about it all the same without understanding what counts.

This guy did it: , i kind of like his answer.

Additionally, not just the term "capeshit", but the concept of a superhero.

If it doesnt trigger you 'tism too hard, answer what a superhero is instead.

A shitty buzzword ala "kino" used by annoying retards.

Nah

>Define exactly what is capeshit.

Corporate owned superhero comics with no long-planned, concise storylines, where the creative team gets constantly mixed, the backstory gets constantly rewritten to match the current story, and the only editorial is limited to making sure that the storylines comfort to the current ongoing company-wide crossover event or theme.

Basically, superhero comics whose sole purpose is selling more books, where telling a good story is much less important, and even if a writer wants to do it, company policies would make it difficult if not impossible.

I'd say it became prominent in the late 80s / early 90s. Before that, stories had quite a continuity, and editorial made sure that they each fit in the marvel universe as a whole. There were clear definitions of each characters powers, and new stories had to fit in with the existing ones.

It went full blown fucked up in the 00s when all books became slaves to events, and with autistic writers like Bendis rising to meteoric fame who actively disregarded any and all continuity (even their own!). Fortunately there were still a few great storylines at that time, but that has been gone a long time now.

>Trying to define a designation for works of fiction by characters who have been handled by many authors.
Nice try. Capeshit is the book, not the character. That said, being subversive doesn't get you off the hook. I said
>purely incestuous influence or is so involved with the culture born from those comics that it has nothing substantial to say about it/anything else
for a reason.

Look at FATE by DC for example. It replaces the golden age hero with an edgy anyone to antithetical to the original golden age ideology. However, it only copies this subversive sentiment from other parts of the existing superhero comic culture and doesn't actually draw influence from anything outside of it (arguably aesthetics, but it came so late that you'd be pushing it to claim that). It doesn't actually break formula, present a commentary that's not regurgitated from other books, or have a strong creative vision. It's entirely influenced by the superhero comics culture and offers the reader nothing unique or nuanced.

Even then, being capeshit or not isn't inherently indicative of quality (although most people aren't keen on derivative, by the numbers work).

>third party cape comics like Invincible or Savage Dragon or Spawn
Produced by singular creative vision so they aren't subject to the production constraints of editorial fiat and corporate concern, which are the main culprits in turning a nice cape story into shit.

Also those books can and have actively subverted and eschewed capeshit tropes from time to time.

Invincible and Savage Dragon are great because they are basically the author doing whatever they want. Since the creative team is the same, they also have more control over backstories, and you don't have some new writer re-imagining everything two issues after the current storyline was aborted.
You can actually read them start to finish and expect an actual ongoing story.

Spawn tried to be that but it ended up betraying too much of its own propositions, resulting in some story changes and then endless story retcons (after 200 issues they reveal that Al was actually a wife beater who forcefully aborted their children so he can stay a mercenary).

It also had a frankly horrible creative team. Props go to Todd for creating Image, but Spawn really, really fluctuated in quality.

>betraying too much of its own propositions

principles, not propositions. fuck. It feels like I'm developing alzheimers sometimes, I forget the right words.

>Spawn
>quality
The book was consistently garbage, you fucking subhuman nigger (only dumb niggers love that book because of MUH POSITIVE NIGGER REPRESENTATION since even edgelords who grew up on it grew out of that godawfull book)

>Savage Dragon
>Great
Erik's work is a great argument for Pre-Torah analysis Sim not being so bad. His approach to writing makes middle schoolers look refined.

Laugh at this faggot who can't handle memes. Also, faggot, look up Dziga Vertov. Kino is a legitimate term from the history of film.

"Capeshit" is just a derogatory term for superheroes.

I read comics. Some of them have superheroes and some of them don't.

>OONGA BOONGA NIGGERS

Todd is a hack writer, but take it easy on the "everything I dislike is social justice" shit. A lot of Spawn "fans" didn't know Al was black, they were in it for the pinups.

Get cancer and save the Earth from your worthless existence, Sup Forumsshitter faggot.
Kino is nothing but a shitty meme and you know it.

/thread
The fact that you idiots are seriously trying to discuss it and the fact that this thread is still not deleted only proves that this board is abysmal.

>the comic book board is abysmal for talking about comic book terminology and defining exactly what aspects of it are

Still better than average capeshit.

>shitty memes
>actual terminology
Oh look, another idiot.

>"Capeshit" is just a derogatory term for superheroes.

No, not just for superheroes in general. It is for company owned superhero characters who get pass around like cheap whores for whatever reason that pays the most.

You can have super hero comics without that. See Invincible.

Yes user you're retarded. I'm glad you've accepted it. I'm sure you'll still make 50 more threads though.

>I commend your effort but you're completely wrong in that assumption.
You're not fooling anoyne. You literally made this thread as a counter-argument to a point nobody here made. Save that shitty non-argument for the next guy who is "bitching about capeshit or non-capeshit comics being not as recognized or whatever the fuck else reason have to bitch about capeshit."

Oh I'm angry, because you're using a terrible arguing tactic while arguing against someone WHO ISN'T HERE. Not only that but you thought your passive aggressive bullshit was worthy of getting reposted. Yes, people like you make me angry.

>All i'm asking for is a definition of what actually counts as capeshit
No you aren't, you're just here to go "nuh-huh, because there are exceptions" like you've already done several times in the thread. There are always exceptions and somewhat conflicting definitions of genres, people have written entire books trying to make definitions that fit all, it's just pointless.

You can define "superhero" or "capeshit" as narrowly or broadly as you like, and it's not going to be satisfactory, and it's in no way unique in that. The definition you liked has Death Wish or Tintin being superhero stories and Legion of Super Heroes or Marvel 1602 not being one. It's fucking pointless.

I realise I'm unreasonably angry but fucking hell I hate that people think talking semantics is a fruitful endeavor.

I'll take something boring and annoying like yet another attempt at a Cyborg solo over "FUCK U GAIMAN STOP BEING MEAN TO TODD I'LL BEAT U UP IN MY COMIC GRRRR!"

He's a manchild and has never written a decent issue in his life. He's only good as a penciller, and even then he falters without a writer or editor's guidance.

Capeshit characters all have personal antagonist that will destroy the world, town X, if Mr. Capeshit is not around to stop them. They exist in multiple timelines and spaces, populated by different ex-gfs, inheritances, alter-egos and future tech.

They have simple sad backstories that are shadowed by everything they've done since. Typical capeshit character has visited alien galaxies, died once, time traveled, given birth to a horse, fucked everything that moves, changed their gender and race, worked as professional wrestler, created a scientific breakthrough, own a car with their face on it, had their secret identity revealed and unrevealed, accidentally killed someone etc. Its the same shit over and over. If you think the Simpsons have overstayed their welcome, you should take a look at capeshit. They're past their prime, past their sellout phase and only serve as a soapbox for the multiple writers to preach from.

It's factual that people like you who repeat that shit have no idea what they're talking about. "Kinography" is only mentionned in the notes of a book about Vertov, blogs that quote it as being from one of his movies probably got that from memetism because the official subtitles of that movie make no mention of that word. You won't find any academic using that word to talk about Vertov's work either.
Sup Forumsfags truly are cancer.

>You're not fooling anoyne
Nigga no.

Ignorance.

>ou can define "superhero" or "capeshit" as narrowly or broadly as you like, and it's not going to be satisfactory,
No, you fucking moron. Your shitty meme is exactly what that user said. Everything else is mental gymnastics of idiots who try to make it more than it is.
Oh wow, the delusion.
Newsflash, jackass. Yes, even Kirkman's mediocre comic is referred as such.
But user, how else would Sup Forumstards feel like they're not memeing retard monkeys they are when they can't take a common Russian word and try to convince themselves that they're intellectuals for using it?
Subhuman.

His newsreel series was called Kino-Pravda, film truth. He used the term in his own writing, including sloganeering around the time of "Man with a Movie Camera" like 'long live the kinoks'

>convince themselves that they're intellectuals for using it?
How can you be on fortune and not understand irony? You are the butt of the joke, autist.

Capeshit is a very loose word no matter how you look at it.
When someone calls James Bond movies capeshit you understand what he means even if it doesn't match up with your personal definition.

Try defining the word "Marklar". The marklar people probably couldn't tell you even though they invented it.

>I'll take something boring and annoying like yet another attempt at a Cyborg solo

Yeah, that's how it felt for me too, but after 15 years of reading those, and all storylines eventually becoming irrelevant, I left desynthesized and uninterested in capeshit. I mean, what is the point of reading a good story, what is the point of getting to like the characters and the setting, when you know that company policy will completely kill it? It lasts only until the next relaunch or the next company wide reboot, whichever comes first.

I just can't get myself to like the characters or the settings, or to invest anything more than the 2 minutes it takes to run over the book, because I know that anything in it will not mean fuck all in a few months.

It's not like, say, The Boys, where hints to a characters true identity is dropped subtly even as far as 50 issues back. No. Everything that is built up by one series, it is gone. So why let myself get invested in it?

Capeshit is the fast food of the comic book world.

>"I-I'm just pretending to be retarded"
Yes, I know, subhuman. Except you actually are retarded and your joke is not and never will be funny. Die.

>I mean, what is the point of reading a good story, what is the point of getting to like the characters and the setting, when you know that company policy will completely kill it?
Because it still stands on its own strength and can be revisted at any time. Why would I care about what happens afterwards?

Threads like these make me wish to go back in time, find your parents when they were young and feed them to stray dogs.

I'm still alive, and lmao at your life with every one of your posts. The Last Picture Show is true Kino. Shared universe corporate product is capeshit.

>I'm still alive
Don't worry, there's always a chance that you will die soon, obnoxious memeing monkey. Or at least some of your idiot relatives you love so much, not like they don't deserve it.

>I mean, what is the point of reading a good story, what is the point of getting to like the characters and the setting, when you know that company policy will completely kill it?
To read a good story?

Why give a shit about continuity and bad writers? The good writers will tell you everything you need to know in their books. I miss Jaime having good comics, but I'm fine with my original Blue Beetle 3 trades and leaving it at that. The boatload of shit Superman books doesn't make me stop liking For All Seasons and some dumbass saying it's "not canon" doesn't stop me from enjoying Year One. I still enjoy Busiek's Spider-Man and a variety of PAD books and picking through old Joe Kubert and Syd Shores and Wally Wood is wonderful.

The big companies offer a mythology and strong writers and artists occasionally put out a good book for them. Fuck their continuity memes, I'm just fine reading disparate tales by great artists.

The occasional gamble sure fucking beats 200 issues of Erik Larsen pissing and moaning, at least.

Everbody dies eventually, user. My family, your family, both of us. I just went to a funeral last month. None of that changes the fact that you're a petty faggot who would police language if given an inkling of power. Because in your joyless real life all you feel is the aching absence, the complete lack of strength and control over chance and circumstance.

"Kino" is just the Russian word for cinema.
>He used the term in his own writing, including sloganeering around the time of "Man with a Movie Camera" like 'long live the kinoks'
Watched the segment where it's supposed to be there a while back, it isn't.

Either way "kino pravda" is nothing like what Sup Forums uses "kino" for.

>Your shitty meme is exactly what that user said.
What was that sentence fucking supposed to convey? What meme? What user? Said when?

Ready to go back yet?

>Why give a shit about continuity

Yeah, thanks, you are the reason why we don't get good comics anymore.

>The good writers will tell you everything you need to know in their books

The good writers won't be able to tell the full story they want to in their books, because midway through they'll have to add in a Civil War tie-in that completely screws up the pacing, or have an event that involves their home being under siege and destroyed, leading to the entire run being cut in half and ending prematurely.

Or just ending the series altogether because they are rebooting the universe.

Or they just get booted and another team is put on their story, turning it into a mess.

>The big companies offer a mythology

They take daily shits on their own mythology. What is Supermans status right now? Is his parents alive or dead? Does he have half dozen of other kryptonians running around or is he the sole survivor? Is he working as a journalist in his secret identity, or is he known worldwide to be Clark Kent and makes his bread by fighting in monster fighting rings?

Yeah, you can still enjoy the occasional good story, but you can't just pick up a book and keep reading it for 5 years and get immersed in it. Chances are that the book won't even be around in a year, maybe 3 years if it is a big title. It gets re-launched from issue #1 to make sales. Or it just has its stories printed in 2 different books constantly. Good luck following which Superman book is the actual fucking ongoing.

That's the spirit. I'll never understand why people think one story can ruin a character retroactively.

> I just went to a funeral last month
Good. Hope it hurt. :D
>police language
Smacking a dumb child across the lips and telling it to stop annoying people is not policing language, dumbass.
>armchair psychology.
Oh, lel. Sup Forumsshitters reach new lows every day.

This is about as thought provoking as the "dullest franchise" copypasta.

>Yeah, thanks, you are the reason why we don't get good comics anymore.
You're just looking for someone to lash out at. Get a grip my man.

yo, i'm not really gonna engage in this argument because I don't know much about comics, but you honestly do sound a little flustered

Its just something thats been on my mind lately and i wanted to see how people would respond to/try to explain it their own way, especially since i see people bitch about superheroes and capeshit from time to time but it never seems to actually be about anything specific, i dunno what the deal is with people thinking i'm angry or something.

All words like "capeshit" and "Mary Sue" "Fridging" "trope" "meme" and even "OC" have devolved into "shit I don't like".
It's one of the reasons you can't have a discussion worth shit around here.

Add "edgy" to that list
>it's less light-hearted than Teletubbies
>therefore it's "edgy" and that makes it bad
>m-muh evolution of language

The MCU is the living definition of capeshit.

>you are the reason why we don't get good comics anymore
As compared to what, 1942? DC and Timely were telling continuity to fuck itself before the Silver Age even started. We got stuff like Moore's Swamp Thing, Morrison's Animal Man, Simonson's Thor, Ditko Spider-Man, etc, etc well after writers fucking things up and pulling retcons out of their asses were an established thing.

>The good writers won't be able to tell the full story
Let's be real here: if you can't tell your story in 360 pages, you really should consider revising or making your own, original story. Most of the stuff people want to do with these characters don't require massive runs, and the ones that DO need an extension and offer something fresh often get them (Marvel hands out extensions for well written books like candy).
>tie-ins
Again, look to Animal Man and Swamp Thing: a good writer can take advantage of a forced break.
>status quo change
A series taking place before something that's already published is nothing new.
>Or just ending the series altogether because they are rebooting the universe.
Yes, sometimes books are cancelled unfairly. Welcome to comics! May I direct you to the DC Implosion or the establishment of the CCA?

>What's Superman's status
Whatever they decide for that particular story. Seriously. It's that simple.

>Books don't last for 5 years straight and stories cross books!

Mate, I dont want to alarm you but...that's been a thing since forever. We had characters crossing books for storylines back in 19fucking41 and it's always rare for a book to get up to 60. The difference is the endlessly published books were being regarded for sales boosts for a while. Do you have any fucking idea how many DC comics never made it past 30 in the 70's? Hint: its a fucking lot.

Regardless, none of this has anything to do with your ability to just appreciate a run on its own. You're just complaining about how things have changed from when you were a kid (except they didn't).

>Define capeshit

Capeshit is

...

>What is a "superhero", exactly?
Superhero genre must feature characters with extra-ordinary abilities not consistent with each other except for small thematically linked groups. That, I think is the most accurate definition.

For example, Harry Potter is not a superhero because he lives in the world where everyone can cast the same spells, Zatanna is a superhero because she shares universe with aliens and robots and more or less the sole spellcaster. Tony Stark is a superhero because he's (And some of his thematically linked people) are wearing power armour, but nobody else, Space Marines are not superheroes.